The Cincy game & its affect on how we view the team

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

They looked like they had no idea what type of game plan would work in the snowy conditions. As for a dome, that ship sailed a long time ago. Ultimately,  this team’s coaching may be its Achilles heel. 

I think you are spot on here. 

 

The game plan, coaching, play calling, and in game adjustments were not satisfactory. Often, that's the difference between winning and losing.

 

It's been pretty clear that the Bills coaching staff has underperformed in big games. I think it's fair to start questioning whether changes might be needed. One positive is Fraizer is gone. Now we will see what McD has. 

[stuvian]

We came out soft and got exposed by getting outplayed in conditions where we should have the advantage. It wasn't just the Cincy game. We aren't a tough team in the trenches and we can't tackle. We're a track team on both sides of the ball. We also rely on Josh too much to bail us out and I can tell our D was relying on Von Miller in a similar way until he went down. We're playing like we're a little too enamored of ourselves and haven't earned it. 

 

I also think Zac Taylor is the best coach in football. Clappy got schooled. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I think you are spot on here. 

 

The game plan, coaching, play calling, and in game adjustments were not satisfactory. Often, that's the difference between winning and losing.

 

It's been pretty clear that the Bills coaching staff has underperformed in big games. I think it's fair to start questioning whether changes might be needed. One positive is Fraizer is gone. Now we will see what McD has. 

So I have to agree with us a little bit
 

You would think that a team that plays in Buffalo would know their own to weather

 

I just think the bills were not built for cold-weather

 

I think that tight end is a sneaky need I believe that they have been trying to incorporate to tighten sets since last year, but just did not have the horses whenever the free agent that we brought it didn’t work out

 

Would not be shocked to see us draft one, and we were in on Parham

[Dr.Sack]

I think the cumulative effect of injuries destroyed our season. If the Bills can stay relatively healthy they will be alright in 2023. 
 

Miller and Hyde hurt. Poyer playing with injuries hurt. Hamlin going down was big. Tre White missing 70% of the year was not ideal. Benford going out with multiple injuries set the CB room back. Allen’s elbow and Davis’ high ankle were bad.
 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Hope they have fixed the issues with their cleats by now..

 

They played like they were on roller skates…

The Bills just aren't built for snow like the teams of old. It's not an advantage anymore. I wish a dome was coming but it's not. Somehow this finesse based roster will have to find a way and adapt.  Winters in Buffalo aren't magically going to be sunny and 60°.  They gotta find a way.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

So I have to agree with us a little bit
 

You would think that a team that plays in Buffalo would know their own to weather

 

I just think the bills were not built for cold-weather

 

I think that tight end is a sneaky need I believe that they have been trying to incorporate to tighten sets since last year, but just did not have the horses whenever the free agent that we brought it didn’t work out

 

Would not be shocked to see us draft one, and we were in on Parham

I agree on the tight end portion of your post. Another weapon would be great. 

 

However, I think the weather factor was and is overrated. The Bills can and know how to play in the cold. Plenty of examples to site. I don't think weather was much of a factor in the Bills playoff loss. 

 

Rather, it was poor coaching, poor game plan, poor adjustments, lack of talent in the trenches, injuries, poor play/execution, and a poor WR core. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by newcam2012

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, stuvian said:

We came out soft and got exposed by getting outplayed in conditions where we should have the advantage. It wasn't just the Cincy game. We aren't a tough team in the trenches and we can't tackle. We're a track team on both sides of the ball. We also rely on Josh too much to bail us out and I can tell our D was relying on Von Miller in a similar way until he went down. We're playing like we're a little too enamored of ourselves and haven't earned it. 

 

I also think Zac Taylor is the best coach in football. Clappy got schooled. 

Yes McDermott got outcoached by both McDaniels & Taylor. The only difference is Josh & Co. somehow willed us to a close win against Miami.  By the Cincy game the tank was bone dry.  Sean's game day strategy will always concern me. It's just part of how our team is built. 

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, Adam727 said:

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way.  

 

When Beane got here we weren't a great team.  Then we were a fringe playoff team that I did not expect would have a chance against teams like KC.  The last two years I think Beane closed the talent gap and the Bills are as good (or almost as good) as any team in the AFC.

 

Everyone remembers two years ago for 13 seconds.. the single thing I'll remember it for above all else is we lost to a coin toss.

 

Last year, despite major injuries at important positions all across the roster, the Bills held their own destiny to the #1 spot and lost it due to no fault of anyone's when their teammate almost died on the field.

 

I think maybe the first round of the playoffs you can get a bye or get lucky and play a team like NE that didn't deserve to be there.  But after that I view the last two playoff games and superbowl as almost coin tosses no matter how good you are.  At that point you're playing against equally good teams and anyone can beat anyone on any given day.  

 

Maybe I'm being too much of a homer but I think the Bills already have the talent to win it all and Beane's focus should shift a little to making sure  he keeps that window open for as long as possible because some of it comes down to luck and the best way to defend against that is to give the team as many opportunities as possible.  

Definetly a homer point of view here. Nothing wrong with that perspective. However, some points seem a bit too rosey. 

 

I remember 13 seconds. The coin toss should have never happened! The coin toss was a result of a complete inexcusable Bills collapse. 

 

At some point, the Bills have to move forward and actually make a Super Bowl appearance. Win the whole damn thing.

 

We fans shouldn't be satisfied with playoff appearances and early exits. Are we satisfied with this due to the previous failures season after season? Are we settling for less as a result? 

 

KC and Cinci are better teams than the Bills. AFC division foes are breathing down the backs of the Bills. Imho, the Bills organization, coaches, and players have squandered the last two years. 

 

Fast forward to this year and really analyze the team's roster. There are needs on both sides of the line, WR, LB, TE, etc...As previously mentioned by a poster "the game is usually won in the trenches." Do you really feel confident that this oline and dline can compete with the big boys? 

 

The old saying is (even used by Beane with the exception of this year)  you are as good as your last game. 

 

I will remain hopeful but skeptical this Bills team can take the next step forward. 

[Rico]

Chiefs and Bengals were both below & looking up at the #1 seed Bills until Damar Hamlin on MNF. That’s a fact. 
 

[L Ron Burgundy]

11 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

You could very well be right.  But you could also be completely wrong and that game clearly demonstrated how we are behind the top 5 or so teams.  We tend to play our worst ball in the playoffs,  when it counts.  We're not physical. 

 

So far, we are a worse team heading into next season.   Not exactly debatable imo.  Obviously theres a lot of time.  I don't really see Beane's plan right now either and I think that's what's making some of us nervous.  Our drafts have been pretty crappy so if our plan is to mostly fill gaps from there well, there's a reason to be pessimistic. 

 

Oh man I'm becoming a constant complainer.

[newcam2012]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

We lost a coin toss.., after some ridiculously bad defense…after two TOs from McD. It’s inexcusable… it will weigh over him until they either win the SB or he is fired.

Unfortunately, fans will have to relive that ending for decades. Think Tennessee miracle.

6 hours ago, stuvian said:

We came out soft and got exposed by getting outplayed in conditions where we should have the advantage. It wasn't just the Cincy game. We aren't a tough team in the trenches and we can't tackle. We're a track team on both sides of the ball. We also rely on Josh too much to bail us out and I can tell our D was relying on Von Miller in a similar way until he went down. We're playing like we're a little too enamored of ourselves and haven't earned it. 

 

I also think Zac Taylor is the best coach in football. Clappy got schooled. 

Agree with everything but the Zac Taylor comment. I think he's just an average coach with a great QB, great DC, and a very nice roster. If he was great they would have beaten the Rams in the Super Bowl. It wasn't too long ago Bengals fans were callung for his head. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by newcam2012

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

I think the cumulative effect of injuries destroyed our season. If the Bills can stay relatively healthy they will be alright in 2023. 
 

Miller and Hyde hurt. Poyer playing with injuries hurt. Hamlin going down was big. Tre White missing 70% of the year was not ideal. Benford going out with multiple injuries set the CB room back. Allen’s elbow and Davis’ high ankle were bad.
 

 

Come on man. All teams go through injuries. With the exception of the QB, teams should be built to overcome most injuries. 

 

I'm really tired of the injury excuse. Josh and the offense were as healthy as could be! They put up 10 points in the biggest home playoff game in recent memory. 

 

The Bengals had 3 offensive linemen out and still dominated the Bills dline.

 

KC had Mahomes playing on one leg vs Jacksonville. He was limited in the Bengals game too. Went on to win the Super Bowl with limited mobility and injury. 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yes McDermott got outcoached by both McDaniels & Taylor. The only difference is Josh & Co. somehow willed us to a close win against Miami.  By the Cincy game the tank was bone dry.  Sean's game day strategy will always concern me. It's just part of how our team is built. 

I don't think it's ok to accept that your coaches game day strategies are poor. That's a major part of coaching. 

 

Early in McD and Bills are I really liked his game plans and in game adjustments. Perhaps, it was because the bar was set so low by previous coaches. 

 

I feel that McD has detoriated in this department the last couple years. He seems to play second fiddle to good coaches in big games. Clearly, this has been the case the last two years. Very disappointing playoff losses that he clearly contributed to.

 

The Bills may regress this year and it might be time for change. 

[Steptide]

When the Cinci game happened, I kinda felt the bills were on the verge of having a game like that, and unfortunately it was in the playoffs. As some have mentioned, I definitely think injuries played a part this season. Having said all that, they still won 13 games. It'll be really interesting to see what Dorsey does in year 2 and what the defense looks like minus Fraizer 

[newcam2012]

12 minutes ago, Steptide said:

When the Cinci game happened, I kinda felt the bills were on the verge of having a game like that, and unfortunately it was in the playoffs. As some have mentioned, I definitely think injuries played a part this season. Having said all that, they still won 13 games. It'll be really interesting to see what Dorsey does in year 2 and what the defense looks like minus Fraizer 

Dorsey needs to improve. 

 

I'm.very interested in seeing how a  McD led defense performs. 

[BillsFanSD]

14 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

It wasn't just the Cincinnati game.  The Bills were the best team in the league before their bye.  They were not the same team after the bye.  Some of it was probably Allen's elbow. Some of it was probably other stuff that we don't really know about -- this team is incredibly opaque to its own fan base and our beat reporters are mostly cheerleaders.  But regardless of the "why," the fact is that the Bills were just pretty good during the second half of the season, and lots of us noticed the drop-off at the time it was happening.  

 

You're forgetting the way they almost lost to a Skylar-Thompon-led Dolphins team at home in the WC round.  That was a red flag.  The Bengals loss didn't just come out of nowhere.

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Dorsey needs to improve. 

 

I'm.very interested in seeing how a  McD led defense performs. 

There may be some small regression record wise in the regular season. In substance, the team needs to become an offense that can thrive where Josh Allen is a force multiplier of the weapons around him. One can accept Allen putting his body at risk more frequently in the playoffs, but if there isn't a real basis for another modus operandi during the season, he'll be ready for the glue factory in a few years ala Cam Newton. Hopefully Dorsey improves and accomplishes a more integrated offensive game plan where all the tools are used and the run and pass game compliment one another. (This does not mean abandon the primary pass offense; that would be ridiculous given Josh Allen.) We'll see if McDermott embraces a less passive defense and if the draft picks develop beyond utterly mediocre along the DL.

 

Post-season success is the measuring stick for coaching regimes. I suspect McDermott will have to fail by that standard several more times before he would be replaced, but the criteria of playoff victories is the only one that really matters when you have a franchise qb.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

That game broke this MB, it hasn’t been the same since.

With good reason.

 

This team is fraudulent. I'm not sure it's ceiling isn't the divisional round, still. Coaching is a liability in the playoffs.

[Buckets]

I'm still concerned about Dorsey, things need to change on play calling. Like what was mentioned before, quick short passes.

[newcam2012]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

There may be some small regression record wise in the regular season. In substance, the team needs to become an offense that can thrive where Josh Allen is a force multiplier of the weapons around him. One can accept Allen putting his body at risk more frequently in the playoffs, but if there isn't a real basis for another modus operandi during the season, he'll be ready for the glue factory in a few years ala Cam Newton. Hopefully Dorsey improves and accomplishes a more integrated offensive game plan where all the tools are used and the run and pass game compliment one another. (This does not mean abandon the primary pass offense; that would be ridiculous given Josh Allen.) We'll see if McDermott embraces a less passive defense and if the draft picks develop beyond utterly mediocre along the DL.

 

Post-season success is the measuring stick for coaching regimes. I suspect McDermott will have to fail by that standard several more times before he would be replaced, but the criteria of playoff victories is the only one that really matters when you have a franchise qb.

Great last paragraph. Agree 100% with it. 

 

The Bills offense will always be above average because of Allen. He is just that good.

 

The stats for the Bills offense was very good last year. Imho, Dorsey was learning on the job. He wasn't terrible but I felt Like the offense lacked an identity and continuity. However, the achiles heal was a weak offensive line and lack of WR talent. This has to change or we can expect similar or worse results. 

 

To date, the Bills have added a no name tiny WR and an average to good guard. Really nothing to get overly excited about. Beane I'm sure has a few more moves up his sleeve. The draft is looking to be critical too. 

[Believer]

Given reality??… Much deeper and more competitive division next season… 

 

Beane needs to add a couple more respected vets with SB success…

 

McDermott, Dorsey and Allen need to raise their game planning and play-calling a couple notches…

 

McDermott needs to get better staff input to improve his in-game decisions…

 

All doable

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

 

To date, the Bills have added a no name tiny WR 

 

Incorrect. He is already on his second name of his NFL career 😀

[newcam2012]

16 minutes ago, Believer said:

Given reality??… Much deeper and more competitive division next season… 

 

Beane needs to add a couple more respected vets with SB success…

 

McDermott, Dorsey and Allen need to raise their game planning and play-calling a couple notches…

 

McDermott needs to get better staff input to improve his in-game decisions…

 

All doable

No easy task. Not to mention avoid major injuries and have a solid draft. Again doable but not easy.

 

I'm not feeling Super confident after last year's Bengal thrashing and a fortunate win vs Miami with a 3rd string QB. 

 

Looks to be a formidable schedule, Miami seems to be all in, the Jets are likely getting Rodgers, and the Jags are up and coming. 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Incorrect. He is already on his second name of his NFL career 😀

Very witty. I like it. 

[zow2]

Winning the Super Bowl is about having a good team (obviously), having the ball bounce your way a few times during the season and staying clear of major injuries. It’s also paramount to hit your peak late in the season as the playoffs begin.  Buffalo hit their peak after game #2,  then willed their way to some stretches of winning while not playing all that well.  So i give them props for that. But they prob should have lost to Skylar Thompson Miami who had no trouble moving the ball on us. Then playing a team in Cinci with a solid D scheme, that was the end. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

It's far more than one game.

Its Nathan Peterman 

It's defense choking at Houston

It's 13 seconds 

Its watching the whole offense struggle for 2/3rd of last season 

 

It's watching a defensive minded coach waste the best QB in Bills history.  

It's going into a game against KC and now Cincinnati knowing we will be outcoached and Allen is our only hope.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Winning the Super Bowl is about having a good team (obviously), having the ball bounce your way a few times during the season and staying clear of major injuries. It’s also paramount to hit your peak late in the season as the playoffs begin.  Buffalo hit their peak after game #2,  then willed their way to some stretches of winning while not playing all that well.  So i give them props for that. But they prob should have lost to Skylar Thompson Miami who had no trouble moving the ball on us. Then playing a team in Cinci with a solid D scheme, that was the end. 

Miami’s offensive production in the playoff game was horrible. They averaged 3 yards per play, the qb rating was under 40, and 15 of their 31 points were gifted to them by the Bills’ offense and ST. The Bills D dominated them.

Edited March 19, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Miami’s offensive production in the playoff game was horrible. They averaged 3 yards per play, the qb rating was under 40, and 15 of their 31 points were gifted to them by the Bills’ offense and ST. The Bills D dominated them.

And yet they were losing at home in the playoffs in the 3rd quarter against a 3rd string QB and RB. 

[BarleyNY]

16 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

 

It was not just the Cincy game for me. I had my concerns with how the team had played late in the season and then against Miami in the playoffs. The Bills would not have won that game if the Dolphins had a competent QB to line up that day. We beat Skyler Thompson by 3 points. At home. 

 

Since the Cincy game I’ve learned about Allen’s injury and its impact on his throwing. That explains why he couldn’t throw short or intermediate routes that well and why Dorsey moved away from calling plays for them. I still have concerns about the play calling - especially since the elbow greatly improved and Dorsey stuck with a ton of deep throws. There also seems to be a big problem with Allen checking down. I don’t know how much is on him versus Dorsey but it’s a problem.

 

On defense the Bills fell off dramatically when they lost Von Miller. His ability to return to form will have a huge impact on this defense. As for coaching, let’s hope we see a step forward - especially in the playoffs. 

 

There are concerns on the personnel side too. The OL needs brought up from below average to above average, Allen needs another legit weapon and the coaches will need to find a way to develop their defensive linemen.

 

The worst of it for the Bills the last few seasons has been the coaching in the playoffs. There is no sugar coating it. It’s been horribly flawed and if it doesn’t get fixed then those coaches are wasting years of a HOF QB’s career - not to mention the fans time, money and emotional investment. 

[machine gun kelly]

15 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

 

Now that we've had several weeks to process last season, I think it comes down to a series of unfortunate events. 

 

•Micah out for the season

•Josh's elbow injury 

▪︎ Von out for the season

• Damar almost dying

 

....then factor in blizzards,  shootings, Kim almost dying.  Name me one organization that could absorb all that and have the emotional capacity to advance.  There isn't one.  We won't take a step back as long as this team collectively takes a "deep breath". The chaos of 2022 will probably never be duplicated again.

LA, that’s inserting too much common sense.  These are not just excuses, they are real, and additively it did play a role in how emotionally and physically exhausted the Bills were in the playoffs. We almost lost to the Fish the week before.

 

we won’t know until we beat them in season.  We did though beat the Chiefs in the regular season twice in Arrowhood.  That is an accomplishment.

 

Ill reserve judgment on the roster until we come out of training camp.

 

Like many of you I will be paying a lot of attn to the draft.  We need to hit on several picks.  For me it’s a WR, TE, and G.

Edited March 19, 2023 by machine gun kelly

[The Red King]

Remember, some posters started pointing these out as early as the GB game.  Those same posters got laughed and yelled at, with the familiar mantra of...well, we're 10-3, 11-3...and so on, as if having that record had to mean we were flawless.

 

And the things those posters were pointing out as concerns were the exact same things Cincy used to wreck us.  So no, in a number of cases people are not basing their own opinions on one game.  They saw it coming and got shouted down for speaking up.

[jethro_tull]

It was a bitter loss and although it was "one game" it had a lasting effect because the team didn't have any other lopsided loses last season and it was a home playoff game under very high expectations for us and the players.  

The fact that they had no other lopsided loses is a good sign.  

The loss happened for a variety of reasons-

1) Effort and execution.  The Bills had a decline in their emotional effort because of the reality of the events that happened in the previous game with Cincinnati. The game plan was off on both sides of the ball, players were straining for motivation and pressing while the Bengals were cool and calm professionals. 

2) Familiarity.  If the previous Bengals game had been completed, the Bills could have learned from that game and it would have been much closer.  Studying video is one thing but actual game time gets them much more familiar with each other.  

3) Roster match ups.  Of course out of balance roster match ups in critical positions had a big influence on the outcome.  Our OL vs, the Bengals DL is likely the worst case, with our coverage LBs and DBs vs. the Bengals WRs, RBs and TE (they really spread the ball around) was imbalanced as was our DL vs the Bengals OL in run stop and pass pressure.  Our defense had their worst game of the year and our run game was non existent.  

 

The Bengals are now the target team to beat, much like the Titans were in '20 and '21 and of course the Chiefs.  The Bills responded well to those teams and their off season will now need to focus more on beating them from a roster and game plan perspective.  I have confidence they can do it.  

[BillsFan130]

15 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

It wasn’t just “one bad game”…

 

They were lucky to win against Miami the week before with Skylar Thompson at the helm…

 

They were on the decline the second half of the season…

This^. Said that even when they were on their winning streak and got blasted for it.

 

Their only convincing W since the bye was at NE. There was a lot of struggles against mediocre teams

[jethro_tull]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

This^. Said that even when they were on their winning streak and got blasted for it.

 

Their only convincing W since the bye was at NE. There was a lot of struggles against mediocre teams

Division familiarity is a big factor.  

[patzen]

16 hours ago, Success said:

If we talked about this team anytime in September or October, I think it would have been hard to find a poster here who didn't think we were either the best team in the league, or at least even with the best.  We went to the house of the eventual SB champ, and beat them, without any breaks or anything flukey.   We had some blowouts.  The offense was clicking on all cylinders, and the defense - at that time - was pretty smothering.

 

Our losses were all 1 score, 1 play.  Cincy in the playoffs was the 1st time that any team took it to us, and just beat us up and down the field, all game.  THAT is now how many here now view the team. Very flawed, and much weaker than we thought.

 

But ultimately, it was just one game.  Teams lay eggs, and given how emotional the last month of the season was, it's easy to see in hindsight how that affected the team (and the Bengals were kind of the opposite, playing w/ a real chip on their shoulder).  They also may just be a bad match-up for the Bills, which I'm hoping will change w/ the change in DC.  I think Frazier's defense was very effective against quite a few teams - but against Cincy & those receivers, you have to be aggressive, and challenge them more at the line.

 

I don't buy the whole "we were already behind the top teams and now we're falling further behind" narrative of FA.  When healthy, we're still right there w/ the best teams - and we're rolling everything back minus Edmunds, and with a new guard, a faster receiver than we've had in awhile, and the draft still ahead.

 

I don't see us taking a step back in '23.  We'll be right there w/ the top teams.

 

 

 

 

I strongly agree OP. The fact is that if we had started the season with no Von Miller, no DaQuan Jones, no Micah Hyde, and an injured Josh Allen we would not have been the overwhelming Super Bowl favorites. Heck, we probably wouldn't even have been the favorites at all. Was the loss disappointing? Of course it was. Does it dampen my expectations or excitement for the future of this team? Not one bit. 

[Magox]

It’s easy to overanalyze the results of one game, especially so when you get beat up so convincingly on both sides of the ball.

 

There is no doubt that the team despite its win streak over the past 2 months was not firing on all cylinders and there were many reasons for that but even so, we were winning.

 

There doesn’t need to be any sort of an overhaul,  Allen will be healthy to begin the season, Miller and Hyde will be back, White should begin looking like a closer version of himself, Spencer Brown shouldn’t have his back issues, McGovern should be a good upgrade in the pass game, Harty should add another effective weapon to the arsenal and hopefully Dorsey will better use his weapons and their strengths to the offense.

 

A few tweaks and the team will be right there competing for the top spot in a very tough AFC.

[Ga boy]

18 minutes ago, jethro_tull said:

It was a bitter loss and although it was "one game" it had a lasting effect because the team didn't have any other lopsided loses last season and it was a home playoff game under very high expectations for us and the players.  

The fact that they had no other lopsided loses is a good sign.  

The loss happened for a variety of reasons-

1) Effort and execution.  The Bills had a decline in their emotional effort because of the reality of the events that happened in the previous game with Cincinnati. The game plan was off on both sides of the ball, players were straining for motivation and pressing while the Bengals were cool and calm professionals. 

2) Familiarity.  If the previous Bengals game had been completed, the Bills could have learned from that game and it would have been much closer.  Studying video is one thing but actual game time gets them much more familiar with each other.  

3) Roster match ups.  Of course out of balance roster match ups in critical positions had a big influence on the outcome.  Our OL vs, the Bengals DL is likely the worst case, with our coverage LBs and DBs vs. the Bengals WRs, RBs and TE (they really spread the ball around) was imbalanced as was our DL vs the Bengals OL in run stop and pass pressure.  Our defense had their worst game of the year and our run game was non existent.  

 

The Bengals are now the target team to beat, much like the Titans were in '20 and '21 and of course the Chiefs.  The Bills responded well to those teams and their off season will now need to focus more on beating them from a roster and game plan perspective.  I have confidence they can do it.  

Good points and I have confidence we will get better.  The reality is that Cincy, KC and Philly would’ve all embarrassed us.  Better to lose to Cincy which validated what we all knew:  we need to improve OL, WR, and RB.  We’ve got the best QB and I want to see him with a SB ring.

[Stuartjohn]

17 hours ago, Playoffs? said:

I think what that game did was expose our weaknesses. Both sides of our lines were beaten up and down. Offensively, we realized that we’d been leaning on a crappy O-Line all season, but Allen made up for it.  In this game, Allen was off, and we suffered the consequences. We had it coming.  Allen and Diggs need help, and our other players need to step up. 
 

On the D-Line, we realized that we pretty much sucked without Von. Injuries compounded the problem. And our D scheme was pitiful… playing soft, allowing QB’s to get the ball out quickly, and not allowing our linemen to get to the opposing QB.  Our secondary was decimated..

 

I think we’ll be back in the mix.. but definitely tempering expectations.

I agree Not Drinking the kool aid like last year! Love the Bills but Cincinnati & KC are better than us Now! 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

2 hours ago, Buckets said:

I'm still concerned about Dorsey, things need to change on play calling. Like what was mentioned before, quick short passes.

Offense actually improved statistically.  Josh’s arm limited the quick screen game, OL was horrible, Gabe Davis caught 50% of passes thrown to him, L’Dirty experiment failed and we don’t have a RB on the roster capable of taking over a game.  But yeah Dorsey is the problem.

[JohnNord]

11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

In fairness… the Carolina Panthers of 2015 went 15-1..the next year they went 6-10… considering the schedule it’s not out of the realm for the Bills to regress.

Jax is better as constructed…. And better coaching. 

You could say they same thing Kansas City.  How many Super Bowl teams failed to make the playoffs the next season?  It doesn’t mean it will happen.

[JohnNord]

14 minutes ago, Shanahan's Horseshoe said:

Offense actually improved statistically.  Josh’s arm limited the quick screen game, OL was horrible, Gabe Davis caught 50% of passes thrown to him, L’Dirty experiment failed and we don’t have a RB on the roster capable of taking over a game.  But yeah Dorsey is the problem.

The word people are looking for is disjointed on offense. You’d see moments where the bigger shot plays were there, but they would follow up with turnovers or 3 and outs to allow the other team back in the game.

The factors you mentioned are there but I also don’t think you saw very much scheming or creativity in playcalling from Dorsey.  Biggest example was the lack of a short passing game an an answer to aggressive defenses.