Edmunds to Bears

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I just felt like they attacked more with Luke and used Edmunds more off the ball.  

I wonder if seeing what happened to Luke changed the defense a bit. Edmunds definitely isn’t a traditional thumper but in todays nfl, you don’t really have to be.

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Bills could have easily traded Milano for a decent pick and then paid Edmunds. 
 

I think they just value Milano more. 

I don’t disagree that they value MIlano more, and they should.  I would have kept Milano over Edmunds too, especially since he’s cheaper.  
 

Milano is the Jordan Poyer of LBs…a guy who leaves it all on the field, among the best at his position, but for a long time didn’t get the credit he deserved around the league.  It was nice to see him get some recognition this year and get rewarded with another contract extension.  
 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Thurman#1]

47 minutes ago, balln said:

Blue chip ? I don’t think he is. They used a #1 and traded 2 2nd rounders to move up. you way over value him and especially w intangible praise - captain and quarterback of the D.

 

he’s just NOT worth it. And not worth it for this team at this time point. I actually have restored faith in beane. Sometimes it’s the MoVES you don’t make that are the right moves. 
 

and also - bills may get a 3rd comp pick so it’s not nothing 

 

 

He's worth it. But not when the Bills are in cap trouble.

 

He's a blue-chipper. That's why he's getting that salary. They'll fill the spot, but it'll hurt us more than many here think. There's been very little throwing to the middle against this defense. Lose Edmunds, and Poyer at the same time, and we'll see more. 

 

But that's life.

[Chaos]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I wonder if seeing what happened to Luke changed the defense a bit. Edmunds definitely isn’t a traditional thumper but in todays nfl, you don’t really have to be.

except maybe in the playoffs

[Doc Brown]

I’m more disappointed we couldn’t extend him last year for 14 million or so.  Hindsight is 20/20 though and he had by far his best year to strike it rich.  Good for him.  Glad he went to an irrelevant team in the NFC.

[Chuck Schick]

5 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

yes huge mistakes. I dont blame them for Von Miller, he is a great pass rusher and that is so important, just got injured. But White was stupid and Knox was next-level stupid

You do realize White signed before he blew out his ACL? And at the time was clearly considered one of the best young CB’s in the league?

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Chuck Schick said:

You do realize White signed before he blew out his ACL? And at the time was clearly considered one of the best young CB’s in the league?

It’s so wild that stuff that gets throw around. White was considered one of the best cbs in the nfl. Then he gets hurt and now it’s a huge mistake? Fans love overreacting 

[Thurman#1]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Milano is a Bill and Tremaine isn't because Milano got drafted and paid first.  We couldn't afford to pay both, and need to invest in the offense as well.  Especially with what Tremaine got in the open market.  But keep you biased hit campaign going, I know its your schtick.  

 

 

Yup. Exactly.

 

Also had to do with what Milano got on the open market. And may well have had to do with Milano giving us a bit of a home town discount, though there's no real way to be sure.

[DrPJax]

13 hours ago, FireChans said:

Tremaine is the new Shaq Lawson. We will see you back in 2 years bro.

     Hope not!  Thank God we no longer have to hear how great he is because “teams don’t throw in his area, he prevents so many passes”!  All those guys who kept telling us how great he was , how most of us could never grasp all he did for us , can STFU as the great Brandon Beane (who “we all trust in”) didn’t even see the value to resign this defensive “leader”!    Finally the eye test meets up actually how valued he was.  Of course they will still argue he was so great he just out priced what we could afford ,,,even tho we know he could have been resigned earlier if the Bills brain trust had believed the hype we all had to endure. 

 

      So the Bears get their next star LB , their next BUTKUS, their next BRIAN URLACHER, their next MIKE SINGLETARY!   Yep, TRE always came to mind as well when those names were mentioned, and now he can take his one standout , highlight tackle in the flat against the Fins , and become the next monster of the midway!   No doubt, the Bears are all set as TRE will get them from having had the overall #1 pick , to dominating the NFC ( despite the Eagles, 49ers , cowgirls, and even Giants and Vikings still on the move).!   

 

      Good luck w that BEARS,,,you just got the antithesis of the aforementioned great , intense, HOF linebackers , with his charmin-like hard hitting , tackle from behind, pile on, arm tackling , he’s so young , stud that will lead your D in playoff time where his play level rises, to a SB run for the life of his contract!  Personally, I would be happier to see Shaq back than relive the Tremaine tenure as we all can forever remember the great defensive results of the past two divisional playoff LOSSES !  The point being , you play to win the SB, and we barely sniffed a chance with one AFC championship appearance with our great statistical defense.

 

      I’m excited to see what happens if they add a real productive LB with the super talented Milano !  ( would love to see the bills load up with someone like Jack Campbell behind a vet, add a legit rb like dijon, get a true #2 wr as a vet FA addition plus draft a young wr and tackle / guard in addition to McGovern , and i would not regret losing TRE, and I bet you guys will end up happier as well).    It’s a new part of the process, and it should be better with experience, and all the “learning” opportunities.

( look , I think Tre is a great, standout young man who was probably used in a way that limited his visible impact in the big picture and maybe his best football is ahead of him. But its time to quit throwing money at the D yearly, and  time to stick by a firm limit to spend on certain positions, and support the best player , Josh , as the AFC is becoming loaded.  Just the afc east is going to b a dog fight so it’s time to maximize your best asset and best chance to make it to the SB and that means not spending 50 mil$ guaranteed on a better than avg ILB. Hopefully money gets shifted to making our O better , as like the chiefs, a great offense is our best shot to compete) 

 

 

 

’

Edited March 14, 2023 by DrPJax

[Billl]

31 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1 - LK is a borderline HOF and was born with MLB instincts. So that’s a hard comparison.

 

2 - https://buffalowdown.com/2023/02/17/buffalo-bills-tremaine-edmunds-pff-improved/amp/

 

its pff so take it for it’s worth but TE was the best cover LB last year.

 

I get the money but it’s crazy that with an awful DC and a soft MLB we had the number one defense. 

How much do lbs get in trades? Honestly, I don’t remember a big return for a LB. Also, Milano is cheaper. That helps too. I think MM is the better player but if the costs were similar, it would be a tougher decision. 

I never watched Edmunds and came away impressed with him as a player, but I can’t deny that the team’s performance was dramatically better when he was in the lineup compared to when he wasn’t.   He was going to get a bag from someone that the Bills couldn’t match.  It’ll be interesting to see if he earns it.  

[Beast]

I’m glad he was a Buffalo Bill. I appreciated his efforts and thought he was rock solid covering the middle of the field in the passing game.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

6 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

$$$$$$$$$$$

 

What a Billsy overpay! 🤷🏼‍♂️

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That length and athleticism will be tough to replace.

 

They aren't going to try to replace his length and athleticism. They're going to have to tweak the scheme to account for a different skill set in the middle of the defense. Personally I take this as a positive.

[Mr. Wonderful]

Edwards Is a  good player, not great player. The Bills should be able to get an average MLB and not see too much a drop in production from the position.  Glad someone else overpaid for his services.  Milano is the playmaker for the Bills D.  It's the smart move.   

 

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

we can’t play everyone but I think TE might be the one FA we really regret losing.

 

LB is a position like RB or safety, it's hard to imagine truly "regretting" the loss. What's the worst case scenario? If Edmunds goes on to be a superstar MLB for the Bears, we only lost out on a non-premium position player and opened up cap space to fill in other needs on the offense. If his replacement doesn't perform well I still won't regret losing him. I may regret that we didn't properly scout his replacement but that's not the same thing.

 

The far more likely outcome is that the team giving a non-premium position player a massive deal after his best season came in a contract year will come to regret it.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Milano is a Bill and Tremaine isn't because Milano got drafted and paid first.  We couldn't afford to pay both, and need to invest in the offense as well.  Especially with what Tremaine got in the open market.  But keep you biased hit campaign going, I know its your schtick.  

Milano is a Bill and Tremaine isn’t because Milano was a better LB than Tremaine, and was valued by the Bills accordingly.

 

But maybe the Bears will get Tremaine in space with a new HC who knows how to use him. Lmao.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, SUNY_amherst said:

I think that's a mistake too. They shoulda tried to keep both but if you are gonna lose 1, I'd rather it be Milano.

 

you can teach what Milano does, you can't teach what Edmunds has in terms of skills and length

Edmunds ain’t bad by any means but he certainly wasn’t learning the things you supposedly  can teach lol

[Buffalo Super Fan]

This loss is huge and will hurt the Buffalo Bills we just got sent to the in the playoff hunt tonight with this potential loss. Losing a young Bills football player in his prime isn’t good in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

This loss is huge and will hurt the Buffalo Bills we just got sent to the in the playoff hunt tonight with this potential loss. 

[nosejob]

7 hours ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

Well...he's sure to fall off of 1st contact plenty on short yardage...That's one of his specialties...

Or to get stonewalled by a RB on blitzes...

[eball]

2 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

I think that's a mistake too. They shoulda tried to keep both but if you are gonna lose 1, I'd rather it be Milano.

 

you can teach what Milano does, you can't teach what Edmunds has in terms of skills and length

You do realize it’s actually the opposite, right? No, you can’t teach Edmunds’ size but Milano has more football “instinct” in his little finger than Tremaine appears to have in his entire body. 
 

I wanted the Bills to keep Edmunds because of his youth and potential, but I understand letting him walk. 

 

[chongli]

From the article:

 

"I acknowledge that what I’m about to present is going seem dumb to some. That’s fine. But I think when you’re looking at new Bears LB Tremaine Edmunds, the No. 1 thing to consider is prototypes. And that’s how you can look at his arrival in Chicago, and Roquan Smith’s departure in the fall (in exchange for a second-round pick) and square the two.

 

In Indianapolis, with Matt Eberflus as DC, the Colts drafted two off-ball linebackers who would grow into long-term starters—Shaq Leonard and Bobby Okereke. Both fit a mold. They were over 6'1", but more than that, they had length and speed to shrink the field for the offense. Both had a wingspan topping 82", putting them in the 98th percentile for the position. Both had arms topping 34", with Leonard landing in the 95th percentile and Okereke in the 97th.

 

If you went to a Colts practice, you could literally see it, if you looked close enough. The linebackers looked like they came off an assembly line, tall and lean and long.

 

Now consider Smith and Edmunds. Smith, now with the Ravens, is under 6'1", has a 77" wingspan (34th percentile) and 32" arms (29th percentile). Edmunds, meanwhile, has an 83" wingspan and 34.5" arms, landing him in the 98th and 97th percentile in those categories. And so Smith was traded away, and Edmunds was paid to arrive.

 

Here’s the thing—I don’t think the Bears’ decision making here was any sort of indictment on Smith. More so, it’s an ode to Matt Eberflus’s roots. He learned the zone-heavy defense he runs, one that puts a premium on linebackers who can cover ground and get their hands in passing lands, from Rod Marinelli. Marinelli, of course, once had a big, long linebacker himself with the Bears. And Brian Urlacher set a pretty good—and big, fast and long—standard for those coaches to work off of."

Edited March 14, 2023 by chongli

[DrPJax]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

This loss is huge and will hurt the Buffalo Bills we just got sent to the in the playoff hunt tonight with this potential loss. Losing a young Bills football player in his prime isn’t good in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Yeah all those game changing ints, forced fumbles, sacks , and tackles for loss he had leading us to 2 consecutive divisional playoff losses are really going to be missed!  49 mil $ guaranteed would have been reasonable for all that production, passes avoided like crossing routes into the middle of the field , and all those tackles he made 9 yards down  the field on third and 8 , but when the guaranteed money hit 50 mil $, it just didn’t make sense any longer.  Feels bad after paying him so little for 5 years especially because he was so NFL ready to lead the D at age 19 !  

 

     So , what are you saying; this means we are no longer automatically in the playoffs without Tre, because we can now afford to pay and field 53 players each week?  You would think Beane would have thought of that before not doing a contract a year before or something similar when Tre was not such a superstar , like before he exploded this year with 1 sack and 1 int !  But in Beanes defense, who expected both Tre AND  Saffold to be voted into the prestigious pro bowl the same year ; i mean we usually pride ourself on our roster lacking pro bowl talent!  So we probably have to give Beane a pass when he accidentally loaded the roster with 2 or 3 of those talented guys all in the same year.  That sure screwed the PROCESS of drafting, growing, retaining your own guys, especially when drafting a guy so young we were assured to have him anchor the D for at least a good 10-15 years.

     I guess despite all their regular season success, McD , Beane may have to take a step back , re-evaluate their philosophy just like KC has done for 5 years after being forced to play so many extra games and then draft from a limited pool of talent as they seem to always be picking in the 30-32nd spots ( well, excluding that one year when Mcd felt bad and gave them the 10th spot just so they could have a shot at the limited QB talent that year; funny how our success has been so intertwined with KC!  Sure has been a good thing McD learned so much while with Andy!) 

 

     LOL, just kidding around!  Tre may become good if used appropriately, which I don’t thin was ever the case here , and I think it showed in how edmunds seemed to be very eager to get out of Buffalo.  Sure he wanted to test the market, but he never talked enthusiastically about wanting to continue here, just threw out an occasional cliche or platitude about the NFL being a business, and he would be happy staying but always cut that subject off quickly. This was the only year I saw him ACT like a leader showing enthusiasm , and being a contract year, that’s pretty self explanatory.   I think we will be better , certainly hard to be any worse as we lost when it really mattered after all , and we all know this teams success is based on JOSH, not an ILB in a soft zone D.  Tre and Chicago are both going to find out  he is no URLACHER , BUTKUS, SINGLETARY, SMITH type LB,  who is intense , hard hitting , and a game changer, and TRE is ok regardless being 50 mil$ happier.   He is a good person, i just think he was completely miscast in Buffalo. Chicago is banking on that thought, literally. 

 

      My predictions are Bills fans will finally see true impact performances  when Milano plays alongside someone with football instincts and aggression who likes contact , and the Bears fans , who are used to exceptional lb play ( they just had roquan right, and URLACHER was fast but nasty with his tackling and was a playmaker) will be  seeing a soft, more gentler style  MLB ( unless they use him differently )and they can talk about all the things that didn’t happen because of TRE or discuss all the times he is “around” the play after someone else made the tackle !  Things probably worked out for both sides. I wish him good health, but wont miss him as a bills player i enjoyed watching play. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by DrPJax

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

This is the prototypical win-win situation. Edmunds gets paid and the Bills get the chance to preserve or even improve production at MLB at a lower cost. It's up to Beane to make the most out of the situation.

[Gunsgoodtime]

Out of everything today.  I think this hurts the most.  Yes, he got overpaid, but he is a beast

[John from Riverside]

Not gonna be one of those to talk ***** about a player just because they’re not with us anymore
 

Thank you for the years trumaine you have been a good player for us

 

Time to turn the page

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

Yes I realize. I have watched this team for a zillion years. Paying a CB is stupid, those guys are a dime a dozen.
 

Cost us a foundational MLB 

 

 

"Yes I realize" - well, at least you got that going for you because you acted like you didn't.

"I have watched this team for a zillion years" - the oldest person in recorded history is 122 years old at the time of death.

"Paying a CB is stupid, those guys are a dime a dozen" - the market says otherwise.  A true shutdown #1 CB is incredibly valuable.

"Cost us a foundational MLB" - to be determined.  As far as his contract you could make the same argument for Dawkins, Knox, Miller, Diggs, Hyde, and Milano.

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Doc Brown

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

Yes I realize. I have watched this team for a zillion years. Paying a CB is stupid, those guys are a dime a dozen.
 

Cost us a foundational MLB 

 

 

This is confusing to me
All you have to do is take a look at where the money goes on contracts for good players shut down corners are extremely expensive in the NFL

 

Only the very best middle linebackers make top money

[ProcessTruster]

no surprise there.   

go get more offense Beane.   

we know how this league works now

 

 

[MrEpsYtown]

7 hours ago, chongli said:

From the article:

 

"I acknowledge that what I’m about to present is going seem dumb to some. That’s fine. But I think when you’re looking at new Bears LB Tremaine Edmunds, the No. 1 thing to consider is prototypes. And that’s how you can look at his arrival in Chicago, and Roquan Smith’s departure in the fall (in exchange for a second-round pick) and square the two.

 

In Indianapolis, with Matt Eberflus as DC, the Colts drafted two off-ball linebackers who would grow into long-term starters—Shaq Leonard and Bobby Okereke. Both fit a mold. They were over 6'1", but more than that, they had length and speed to shrink the field for the offense. Both had a wingspan topping 82", putting them in the 98th percentile for the position. Both had arms topping 34", with Leonard landing in the 95th percentile and Okereke in the 97th.

 

If you went to a Colts practice, you could literally see it, if you looked close enough. The linebackers looked like they came off an assembly line, tall and lean and long.

 

Now consider Smith and Edmunds. Smith, now with the Ravens, is under 6'1", has a 77" wingspan (34th percentile) and 32" arms (29th percentile). Edmunds, meanwhile, has an 83" wingspan and 34.5" arms, landing him in the 98th and 97th percentile in those categories. And so Smith was traded away, and Edmunds was paid to arrive.

 

Here’s the thing—I don’t think the Bears’ decision making here was any sort of indictment on Smith. More so, it’s an ode to Matt Eberflus’s roots. He learned the zone-heavy defense he runs, one that puts a premium on linebackers who can cover ground and get their hands in passing lands, from Rod Marinelli. Marinelli, of course, once had a big, long linebacker himself with the Bears. And Brian Urlacher set a pretty good—and big, fast and long—standard for those coaches to work off of."

Wait did Albert Breer read my post from yesterday? 

Edited March 14, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[nucci]

Just now, SUNY_amherst said:

 

I understand why you’d be confused. There’s this thing in the local media and on this website where the Bills can do no wrong ever, and criticism is not allowed.

 

That would be awfully confusing when something like this happens

 

You are 5/10 years behind. Every team that pays corners these days ends up regretting it. You will see what I mean this season when we are gashed by TE’s and RB’s and AJ Klein is always a step behind 

You're obviously new. The Bills get criticized constantly on here.

[skibum]

Only time will tell if this really sucks or not. I can't remember a player whose value was so hard to determine. 

[MrEpsYtown]

This notion that we are now going to get gashed by tight ends and running backs is silly. We have been getting gashed by tight ends and running backs for the last 5 years. Sure Tremaine is big. But he is so easily manipulated in coverage by good QBs that it doesn’t matter. He looks great against guys like Davis Mills and Zach Wilson. 

 

Watch the 4.65 forty Jack Cambell take a zone drop and literally know exactly what route is being run behind him like he has eyes in the back of his head. That’s Kuechly and Urlacher and that is what is, and will likely always be, missing in Tremaine’s game. 

[nosejob]

I don't know if it's been mentioned but Tremaine was an OLB/DE at Va. Tech. I never understood how they figured drafting him to play the middle and be the "QB" of the defense. Anyway, I just don't think he has the instincts. Maybe they put him outside and have success, who knows?

Edited March 14, 2023 by nosejob

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, nosejob said:

I don't know if it's been mentioned but Tremaine was an OLB/DE at Va. Tech. I never understood how they figured drafting him to play the middle and be the "QB"

of the defense. Anyway, I just don't think he has the instincts. Maybe they put him outside and have success, who knows?

I believe was an off ball stack backer which is exactly what he does in a 4-2-5. Plus Chicago just signed him to do the exact same thing he did here and play middle tampa 2. He definitely does not have the instincts, he does make their defense better for what they want to do. 

[John from Riverside]

43 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

I understand why you’d be confused. There’s this thing in the local media and on this website where the Bills can do no wrong ever, and criticism is not allowed.

 

That would be awfully confusing when something like this happens

 

You are 5/10 years behind. Every team knows now that paying corners these days is a mistake.

 

You will see what I mean this season when we are gashed by TE’s and RB’s and AJ Klein is always a step behind 

 

 

But this is happening over the entire NFL lockdown corners get paid huge money linebackers, not so much it’s not a bill thing it’s an NFL thing

[RunTheBall]

Until I saw he signed with the Bears I thought McBeane was going to keep him at a ridiculous amount.

 

I’m happy I was wrong and I think it shows the evolution at OBD in their thinking about how to construct the roster. My guess is Beane floated an extension during the early part of the season and knew right then he was going to lose Edmunds when he got rebuffed. 

 

So now we get to re-allocate resources to the offense which has been somewhat neglected the past couple years.

 

I wish Tremaine well, he will be tough but not impossible to replace and certainly not worth 18 million a year.

[Beast]

12 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

They aren't going to try to replace his length and athleticism. They're going to have to tweak the scheme to account for a different skill set in the middle of the defense. Personally I take this as a positive.

We’ll see if you appreciate it when you see our pass defense. With that said, I’m interested in who will replace him.

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Beast said:

We’ll see if you appreciate it when you see our pass defense. With that said, I’m interested in who will replace him.

As HappyDays mentioned. Bills will have to adjust. And likely for Poyer too.

 I consider that a very good thing in the long run.

No doubt in my mind what Edmunds brought against the pass game.

Time for change. And yes I am really interested as to what Bills are doing at LB too !

[dave mcbride]

5 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

I understand why you’d be confused. There’s this thing in the local media and on this website where the Bills can do no wrong ever, and criticism is not allowed.

 

That would be awfully confusing when something like this happens

 

You are 5/10 years behind. Every team knows now that paying corners these days is a mistake.

 

You will see what I mean this season when we are gashed by TE’s and RB’s and AJ Klein is always a step behind 

 

 

This is kind of comically wrong about CBs. The lack of good cbs is why the Redskins have been terrible on D despite a great front. The lack of CBs is why Seattle’s D was getting constantly shredded after the legion of boom era ended. The addition of Sauce Gardner to the Jets last year vaulted them into the top tier of defenses. No team currently thinks like you do about CBs, and I bet you 5-6 are drafted in the first round this year. That said, I agree that the loss of Edmunds is big. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by dave mcbride