Lamar Jackson wants guarantees that exceed Watson contract

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’m not going to say he will ever be an elite passer but the Ravens have done him no favors. They have had one pro bowl offensive weapons, Andrews. Their receivers have been some of the worst in the league. Gabe Davis would be by far their best receiver and people hate him now! The best one he has ever had, Hollywood, is tiny and a number 2 at best on a good team and they traded him. 
 

I guess I’m in the minority but I think the guy who won a Heisman and mvp at 25 is really good. I watching good qb play so I would love to see him in a situation like Tua has in Miami with fast receivers. It’d be a problem. 

I agree with all of this except I think Bateman is a better WR than Gabe Davis.  Bad system, bad throws + injuries have knocked him down the rung, but I think he’s pretty good

[QLBillsFan]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’m not going to say he will ever be an elite passer but the Ravens have done him no favors. They have had one pro bowl offensive weapons, Andrews. Their receivers have been some of the worst in the league. Gabe Davis would be by far their best receiver and people hate him now! The best one he has ever had, Hollywood, is tiny and a number 2 at best on a good team and they traded him. 
 

I guess I’m in the minority but I think the guy who won a Heisman and mvp at 25 is really good. I watching good qb play so I would love to see him in a situation like Tua has in Miami with fast receivers. It’d be a problem. 

All true. But they created an entire O around him to generate his stats. He will not be good in a traditional O. Good luck to the next OC with him. 

[stuvian]

I think the Ravens will go to 4 years at 50 million a year guaranteed and stop there. 

[C.Biscuit97]

13 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

All true. But they created an entire O around him to generate his stats. He will not be good in a traditional O. Good luck to the next OC with him. 

I mean, I don’t agree with that. He played in a very pro style offense in college. 
 

and even if he could work in one offense, why not get him better receivers? They have our little to no investment into fixing their crappy receivers. And given they suck at drafting them, they should do a Diggs type trade. 
 

the ravens are a great organization but they suck at building offenses.

[QLBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean, I don’t agree with that. He played in a very pro style offense in college. 
 

and even if he could work in one offense, why not get him better receivers? They have our little to no investment into fixing their crappy receivers. And given they suck at drafting them, they should do a Diggs type trade. 
 

the ravens are a great organization but they suck at building offenses.

You make some good points. But while they did not provide him great WR’s the entire O is the RPO set. WR’s seemed to be happy to leave partially because the O is run first but also they don’t see Lamar as an elite thrower. 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

You make some good points. But while they did not provide him great WR’s the entire O is the RPO set. WR’s seemed to be happy to leave partially because the O is run first but also they don’t see Lamar as an elite thrower. 

And I’m not going to call him an elite thrower but they aren’t helping him. Which receiver has left Lamar and did better in the new situation? Hollywood brown, who’s not a number 1 but was playing one, was a 1,000 yard receiver in  Baltimore. His number went down in his first year in Arizona. 
 

Look at allen before Diggs. Much different player. Gets Diggs and it was like steroids.  I won’t say Lamar will be allen throwing but the guy won a MVP with basically scrubs around him besides Edwards. The ravens have one of the least talented offensive groups in the nfl. 

[QLBillsFan]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

And I’m not going to call him an elite thrower but they aren’t helping him. Which receiver has left Lamar and did better in the new situation? Hollywood brown, who’s not a number 1 but was playing one, was a 1,000 yard receiver in  Baltimore. His number went down in his first year in Arizona. 
 

Look at allen before Diggs. Much different player. Gets Diggs and it was like steroids.  I won’t say Lamar will be allen throwing but the guy won a MVP with basically scrubs around him besides Edwards. The ravens have one of the least talented offensive groups in the nfl. 

I follow you. In fairness to Hollywood KM being injured really takes the comparison out vs the teams. The OL for the Ravens has certainly been above average. I will agree in the right situation Lamar could be solid. He’s also had the benefit of a stout D where 24 points will win most games since his W-L record is impressive. 

[Green Lightning]

On 3/18/2023 at 4:53 PM, Thrivefourfive said:

He’s not a passer! What is this myth by all those that think Lamar is getting screwed out of money. If he was so good, where’s the money?? Truth is he was really lucky the Ravens transformed their entire offense to play to his strength, and both sides won. The Ravens were cool with continuing that, and consider his injuries (which no one cannot ignore), and sign him to a contract last year. 
 

Now, who wants him?? If he’s so freaking good, and such a great passer, who wants the fastest quarterback in the NFL?? Right now Lamar is colluding with Lamar. Obviously. 

Have to agree with some of this. He's a great player. But a team has to build an entire offense around his skill set and hope his legs hold up, which has been an issue. It's too big a chance to take on a 100% guaranteed contract.

[aristocrat]

Teams will blow stupid money on wash ups like wentz, Ryan and foles but scared to give real money to a legit talent. Scared money don’t make money 

[Behindenemylines]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

Teams will blow stupid money on wash ups like wentz, Ryan and foles but scared to give real money to a legit talent. Scared money don’t make money 

But smart money does.  If LJ was almost reasonable he would have had a deal last year.  

 

he will end up losing far more is my assumption.  
 

 

[Dr.Sack]

Lamar Jackson spent last offseason mapping his throws like Josh did in 2020, and went out and early in the season looked to be MVP level Lamar. Then injuries among skill positions took hold, and Jackson himself going down. Dude is going to get paid as he just turned 26. 

[SCBills]

On 3/18/2023 at 5:29 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’m not going to say he will ever be an elite passer but the Ravens have done him no favors. They have had one pro bowl offensive weapons, Andrews. Their receivers have been some of the worst in the league. Gabe Davis would be by far their best receiver and people hate him now! The best one he has ever had, Hollywood, is tiny and a number 2 at best on a good team and they traded him. 
 

I guess I’m in the minority but I think the guy who won a Heisman and mvp at 25 is really good. I watching good qb play so I would love to see him in a situation like Tua has in Miami with fast receivers. It’d be a problem. 

Gabe Davis was a 4th RD pick. 
 

Ravens have drafted Lamar 2-RD1 WR’s and 2-RD3 WR’s. 
 

They’ve also drafted a bunch of TE’s, including Andrews and invested more in OL than we have. 
 

Maybe Lamar just can’t elevate anybody. 

[aristocrat]

15 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

But smart money does.  If LJ was almost reasonable he would have had a deal last year.  

 

he will end up losing far more is my assumption.  
 

 

If teams were smart they’d make way more money if they signed him and managed to win a title. Guy is a top five talent and with weapons on offense would be deep playoff team. 

[Behindenemylines]

21 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

If teams were smart they’d make way more money if they signed him and managed to win a title. Guy is a top five talent and with weapons on offense would be deep playoff team. 

Not at those guarantees.   There is a higher than typical chance  he doesn’t play another full season again and could be out of the league due to injury.   It’s just too expensive and risky from an actuarial stand point I assume.   
 

 

[Ya Digg?]

9 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean, I don’t agree with that. He played in a very pro style offense in college. 
 

and even if he could work in one offense, why not get him better receivers? They have our little to no investment into fixing their crappy receivers. And given they suck at drafting them, they should do a Diggs type trade. 
 

the ravens are a great organization but they suck at building offenses.

 

9 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

You make some good points. But while they did not provide him great WR’s the entire O is the RPO set. WR’s seemed to be happy to leave partially because the O is run first but also they don’t see Lamar as an elite thrower. 

This thinking that they haven’t provided him with receivers is false. They have used several first-third round picks on receivers, have signed free agents (Watkins) and it hasn’t worked. Maybe they aren’t the best receivers, but Brown had a first round grade by pretty much everyone, so did Bateman, Lamar just hasn’t been able to raise their level of play. That’s on Lamar and the system, I don’t put as much blame on the receivers 

[benderbender]

Lamar is so terrible, can't pass, and is always injured until Belicheat gives him exactly what the deal he wants then he's a genius with psychic foresight that the entire colluding NFL couldn't see. But that's old Billy playbook stealer, he's just smarter than everyone else. Takes away your best weapon and so on.

[aristocrat]

38 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

Not at those guarantees.   There is a higher than typical chance  he doesn’t play another full season again and could be out of the league due to injury.   It’s just too expensive and risky from an actuarial stand point I assume.   
 

 

What’s the risk? These teams profit no matter what. You have to pay a qb no matter what and if they’re star qbs you pay guaranteed money. The qb position is the most important position in all sports and he’s top 5 at it. 

 

 These teams pay fired coaches so much they even had to warned by the league of how much money they were paying fired coaches. 

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Wanting something and getting something is two different things. BSF says whatever a player gets we the fans pay for at the end of the day so always remember that. For the fan that says give the players whatever they want the owner always passes the added cost onto the fans in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

32 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

What’s the risk? These teams profit no matter what. You have to pay a qb no matter what and if they’re star qbs you pay guaranteed money. The qb position is the most important position in all sports and he’s top 5 at it. 

 

 These teams pay fired coaches so much they even had to warned by the league of how much money they were paying fired coaches. 

 

 If you want to make the case of Lamar being a top 5 qb after the 2019 or even 2020 seasons ok. There's no way he's top 5 after these last 2 years. Combined in the last 2 years.....33 passing tds, 20 ints, 5 rushing tds, 5 lost fumbles. That's 38 total tds and 25 total turnovers in the last 2 seasons. Add to that missing 10 regular season games and parts of 3 more and 1 playoff game.

 

 Josh had more total tds(42) in a 16 game season this year. Matter of fact there were 3 qbs with more total tds just this year and 6 qbs had more than that in 2021 and 1 more had exactly 38. He should've hired an agent and signed when Josh did before the 2021 season. 

 

 

 

[chongli]

Question:

 

What if:

 

(i) no team trades for Lamar given his guaranteed contract demands (probable), and

(ii) Lamar is angry and refuses to play for the Ravens this season (possible)?

 

Could he just sit out until the 12th game, then sign the tag in order to get six games for an accrued season? Then the Ravens could tag him again in 2024 (ala Kirk Cousins) and he could play the same game. But then in 2025, the third franchise tag would be too expensive for the Ravens, so they would have to transition tag him or just let him walk.

 

Is this correct?

Edited March 20, 2023 by chongli

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

@chongli

 

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-franchise-tag-what-it-is-how-it-works/

 

 

"It is worth noting that if a player does sit out the year, the team can tag them again the following year, but it will escalate in cost. Sitting out a year does not mean the NFL team can keep them at the same cost the following season."

 

 

So he can sit out the whole year and the Ravens can tag him again next year, but it will count as the 2nd time tagged, not the 1st.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[Doc]

1 hour ago, benderbender said:

Lamar is so terrible, can't pass, and is always injured until Belicheat gives him exactly what the deal he wants then he's a genius with psychic foresight that the entire colluding NFL couldn't see. But that's old Billy playbook stealer, he's just smarter than everyone else. Takes away your best weapon and so on.

 

Huh?  What's that about Belicheat?

 

13 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

@chongli

 

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-franchise-tag-what-it-is-how-it-works/

 

 

"It is worth noting that if a player does sit out the year, the team can tag them again the following year, but it will escalate in cost. Sitting out a year does not mean the NFL team can keep them at the same cost the following season."

 

 

So he can sit out the whole year and the Ravens can tag him again next year, but it will count as the 2nd time tagged, not the 1st.

 

Yeah but Lamar misses out on $32M.  On top of the ~$42M he's already lost. 

[chongli]

17 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

@chongli

 

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-franchise-tag-what-it-is-how-it-works/

 

 

"It is worth noting that if a player does sit out the year, the team can tag them again the following year, but it will escalate in cost. Sitting out a year does not mean the NFL team can keep them at the same cost the following season."

 

 

So he can sit out the whole year and the Ravens can tag him again next year, but it will count as the 2nd time tagged, not the 1st.

 

 

Thank you for writing that. I realize it will cost them more, but my question is can he effectively refuse to play for most of those two tagged seasons (2023 and 2024) with Baltimore, and then effectively force the Ravens hand into releasing him for 2025, as the third tag would be too expensive? IOW, I can easily see Lamar, with his obstinance, just giving up most of his salary for 2023 and 2024 to get out and out released for 2025.

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Huh?  What's that about Belicheat?

 

 

Yeah but Lamar misses out on $32M.  On top of the ~$42M he's already lost. 

 

Thanks! Knowing Lamar, that's a good possibility. 😁

Edited March 20, 2023 by chongli

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

7 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

Thank you for writing that. I realize it will cost them more, but my question is can he effectively refuse to play for most of those two tagged seasons (2023 and 2024) with Baltimore, and then effectively force the Ravens hand into releasing him for 2025, as the third tag would be too expensive?

 

 I believe yes. Bell sat out his 2nd tagged year in Pittsburgh and then the following year they let him walk not wanting to use the 3rd tag on him iirc.

 

Edit:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/03/13/sports/football/leveon-bell-jets.amp.html

 

 

"After a strong 2017 season, in which he rushed for 1,291 yards and led the N.F.L. with 406 touches, Bell turned down a contract offer that was reported at five years and $70 million, citing the small amount of guaranteed money in the deal. He then refused to play on a franchise tag that would have paid him $14.5 million in 2018, hoping that his conviction could earn a shot at unrestricted free agency.

 

The gambit paid off, at least in terms of freeing him from Pittsburgh’s control, as the Steelers decided they would not use the franchise tag on him again, making him a free agent. In exchange for his signing with the Jets, Pittsburgh will receive a compensatory pick in this year’s draft."

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[unbillievable]

He could copy Deshaun Watson.

 

Show up to the facility but do nothing. Benching himself.

[chongli]

13 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 I believe yes. Bell sat out his 2nd tagged year in Pittsburgh and then the following year they let him walk not wanting to use the 3rd tag on him iirc.

 

Edit:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/03/13/sports/football/leveon-bell-jets.amp.html

 

 

"After a strong 2017 season, in which he rushed for 1,291 yards and led the N.F.L. with 406 touches, Bell turned down a contract offer that was reported at five years and $70 million, citing the small amount of guaranteed money in the deal. He then refused to play on a franchise tag that would have paid him $14.5 million in 2018, hoping that his conviction could earn a shot at unrestricted free agency.

 

The gambit paid off, at least in terms of freeing him from Pittsburgh’s control, as the Steelers decided they would not use the franchise tag on him again, making him a free agent. In exchange for his signing with the Jets, Pittsburgh will receive a compensatory pick in this year’s draft."

 

 

Ok, awesome. So Bell actually didn't even sign the tag and the Steelers let him go the next season. I just don't see Baltimore that, since Lamar is younger and also better, and a franchise QB. They want something and will try to force Lamar into his senses.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, chongli said:

 

Ok, awesome. So Bell actually didn't even sign the tag and the Steelers let him go the next season. I just don't see Baltimore that, since Lamar is younger and also better, and a franchise QB. They want something and will try to force Lamar into his senses.

 

 Pittsburgh had already tagged Bell once, so the one he didn't sign was the 2nd tag. Baltimore has got some time to figure it out before that happens.

 

 

 

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, chongli said:

Thanks! Knowing Lamar, that's a good possibility. 😁

 

For a guy wanting $250M guaranteed, I can assure you he's not sitting out and missing out on $32M.

[chongli]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

For a guy wanting $250M guaranteed, I can assure you he's not sitting out and missing out on $32M.

 

But he's already missed something like $70million by not signing an extension sooner like Josh. This was mentioned by Mike Florio last week or so. I don't see missing $32 million more to be a problem for him. I think he also said he was not going to play for the Ravens this year unless they used the non-exclusive tag on him ($45 million I think). He's bull-headed.

Edited March 20, 2023 by chongli

[Doc]

1 minute ago, chongli said:

But he's already missed something like $70 by not signing an extension sooner like Josh. This was mentioned by Florio last week or so. I don't see missing $32 million more to be a problem for him.

 

The difference is that up until now, he was under the Ravens' control and was waiting for his 5 years to end.  Now that he's seen the Ravens aren't budging and teams aren't lining up to meet his contract demands, he won't toss away $32M.  And what does sitting out a year do for him?  Make him even more likely to get a fully guaranteed contract as a FA in 2024? Unlikely.

[chongli]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The difference is that up until now, he was under the Ravens' control and was waiting for his 5 years to end.  Now that he's seen the Ravens aren't budging and teams aren't lining up to meet his contract demands, he won't toss away $32M.  And what does sitting out a year do for him?  Make him even more likely to get a fully guaranteed contract as a FA in 2024? Unlikely.

 

Ah, I see. This makes sense. [Still, knowing Lamar, it would not shock me if he defies logic and gives up the $32 million (or more), as he has done continually!].

[Rico]

3 hours ago, SCBills said:

Gabe Davis was a 4th RD pick. 
 

Ravens have drafted Lamar 2-RD1 WR’s and 2-RD3 WR’s. 
 

They’ve also drafted a bunch of TE’s, including Andrews and invested more in OL than we have. 
 

Maybe Lamar just can’t elevate anybody. 

He also had the best decoy in football.

[Behindenemylines]

8 hours ago, aristocrat said:

What’s the risk? These teams profit no matter what. You have to pay a qb no matter what and if they’re star qbs you pay guaranteed money. The qb position is the most important position in all sports and he’s top 5 at it. 

 

 These teams pay fired coaches so much they even had to warned by the league of how much money they were paying fired coaches. 

The risk is he gets hurt every season, misses numerous games, and the team fails to make the playoffs year after year.   You’re in QB hell, ala Stafford right now. 
 

or he gets his payday and decides to mail it in week after week.  With how he is negotiating I see that as a realistic possibility. Same hell

 

or after year one or two he declines and is too good to throw away and not good enough to keep.   Same hell

 

none of these options sell seats and jerseys and his coat sets you back 3-5 years easily.  
 

appears to me all risk for the team and the fact teams are drooling over him seems they have the same conclusion

 

[Bill from NYC]

38 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

The risk is he gets hurt every season, misses numerous games, and the team fails to make the playoffs year after year.   You’re in QB hell, ala Stafford right now. 
 

or he gets his payday and decides to mail it in week after week.  With how he is negotiating I see that as a realistic possibility. 

 

 

I see the same possibility with Aaron Rodgers. Sportscasters are touting the Jets as super bowl contenders but I can't see it. Rodgers is old (for football), very rich, and seems to have other things on his mind besides football. I for one expect him to get injured and sit out much of the season.

 

Keep in mind I have no factual basis to make this prediction LOL. Call it a strong hunch.

[thenorthremembers]

8 hours ago, unbillievable said:

He could copy Deshaun Watson.

 

Show up to the facility but do nothing. Benching himself.

He's gonna have to do a bit more if he wants to copy the Deshaun Watson model.

[aristocrat]

50 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

The risk is he gets hurt every season, misses numerous games, and the team fails to make the playoffs year after year.   You’re in QB hell, ala Stafford right now. 
 

or he gets his payday and decides to mail it in week after week.  With how he is negotiating I see that as a realistic possibility. Same hell

 

or after year one or two he declines and is too good to throw away and not good enough to keep.   Same hell

 

none of these options sell seats and jerseys and his coat sets you back 3-5 years easily.  
 

appears to me all risk for the team and the fact teams are drooling over him seems they have the same conclusion

 

the same risk is there if you sign him to a five year deal with three of those guaranteed.  If you don’t sign him you’re in qb he’ll anyways going with has beens like the skins and falcons did last year and will this coming year. In your mind they shouldn’t sign anyone cause what if something bad happens lol. 

[Shortchaz]

Peter king said Lamar has played one game in December and January the last two seasons 

[C.Biscuit97]

11 hours ago, SCBills said:

Gabe Davis was a 4th RD pick. 
 

Ravens have drafted Lamar 2-RD1 WR’s and 2-RD3 WR’s. 
 

They’ve also drafted a bunch of TE’s, including Andrews and invested more in OL than we have. 
 

Maybe Lamar just can’t elevate anybody. 

Um, Hollywood brown was better with Lamar than he was in Arizona. Andrews was a 3rd round rookie with Lamar. It’s Lamar’s fault that Bateman is made of glass? 
 

this is just blatantly wrong. 

[C.Biscuit97]

On 3/18/2023 at 6:41 PM, NewEra said:

I agree with all of this except I think Bateman is a better WR than Gabe Davis.  Bad system, bad throws + injuries have knocked him down the rung, but I think he’s pretty good

I think Bateman is talented but it doesn’t really matter if you don’t play. He’s missed 16 games in 2 years. He was supposed to be their one  after they traded away brown. Dobbins is always hurt. I’m not even sure if they’re other receivers off the top of my head. It is not a talented group and the most talented players are always hurt.

 

I actually think Davis is the perfect type of receiver for Jackson. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I think Bateman is talented but it doesn’t really matter if you don’t play. He’s missed 16 games in 2 years. He was supposed to be their one  after they traded away brown. Dobbins is always hurt. I’m not even sure if they’re other receivers off the top of my head. It is not a talented group and the most talented players are always hurt.

 

I actually think Davis is the perfect type of receiver for Jackson. 

 

Lamar's missed 12 games (and probably would have missed more if his team had advanced in the playoffs) the past 2 years.  

Edited March 20, 2023 by Doc