Mitch Morse, when to move on

[Pirate Angel]

2 hours ago, BeastMode54 said:

Whether he is here next year or not, the guy has had 7 concussions, and we haven't drafted a center since Eric Woods. I know LG, RG and RT are positions that get talked about as far as upgrading. But Center has to be a high priority

He has a wife, young kids, and money. Hard to believe the old ladys not in his ear telling him to retire. My guess would be he will make the Bills release him in order to keep his guaranteed money? Not entirely sure how that works, but 7 concussions he cant possibly think its smart to keep playing. 

[Purplebulldog]

Sign Bradley Bozeman who’s on a 1 year deal with Carolina. He is a good center and can also play guard 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

Curious how some would feel in the scenario if we lose Morse and they decide addressing other parts of the OL like G/LT-RT positions and feel confident Bates can take over as starter?

 

I know we have seen Bates come in at C at times and played fairly well. But I'm not sure if those few games we have seen is enough to feel confident. It's just a "what if" type of thing and was curious how some would feel

 

 

I don't feel confident in Bates as a long-term answer at C. 

 

My ideal would be to draft the biggest, brawliest C/G we can this season, let him play G and learn this year, and move him to C next year.

 

1 hour ago, Eastport bills said:

I love Mitch, but if they think they can move Bates to center, he would free up desperately needed cap space. It wouldn’t make sense if a viable replacement was not on the roster because bringing in a good O-lineman would negate any benefits.

 

You aren't going to free up much cap space by releasing Morse. 

 

Spotrac is usually accurate, but I think they're inaccurate here, Morse carries $6M dead cap (by their own accounting).  We save $5M on the cap, which is chump change for opening a hole "Very good NFL quality center" which we then may have to fill.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Beck Water

[buffalostu2]

38 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

That would not do a whole lot of good. Any cap space we could push out would just hit next year.

Doesn't sound like you thought this through?   

 

 This is a Cole Beasley situation.  Adjust your 11 mil or walk.   He's not getting close to that on the open market when he has 7 concussions and misses games every year.  Nothing gets pushed out.  One year deal and comes back at 7 or 8 hopefully

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think he stays until he decides to go. He is a high level player and an important cog in the OL. I think they should extend him actually. 

 

I don't think these guys are interesting in drafting a pure center. They value that versatility. Mitch Morse was a LT at Mizzou who moved to center as a pro. Same for Ryan Bates, a LT at PSU who moved to guard whose best position is probably center. Greg Van Roten was a LT at UPenn who moved to guard as a pro and the Bills had him cross train at center. They had Ike Boettger learn to snap in training camp a few years ago. 

 

Just find the best linemen you can find and figure it out. 

 

I know that the Bills value versatility.  Maybe they value versatility a little bit too much.

 

3 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said:

This is a Cole Beasley situation.  Adjust your 11 mil or walk.   He's not getting close to that on the open market when he has 7 concussions and misses games every year.  Nothing gets pushed out.  One year deal and comes back at 7 or 8 hopefully

 

I don't get the analogy to Cole Beasley.  No one reported that the Bills had asked Beasley to adjust his salary.  He went in and asked for a trade because he didn't want to be in Buffalo any more, when the Bills couldn't trade him they cut him (and no one picked him up until what, October?)

 

Morse does not miss games every year.  He played a 16 games (full season) in 2019 and 17 games in 2021.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Beck Water

[Utah John]

3 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

You can draft a G/C prospect on day 3 to develop. Yet I'd like us to trade down maybe in round 3 and pick up a few more picks.

This is sensible but the Bills don't allocate enough roster spots to O linemen to make it happen.  They have dozens and dozens of D linemen (or so it seems) for four positions, but only about 8 O linemen for 5 positions.  The big reason they traded away Wyatt Teller was that he still needed time to develop, and they didn't want to waste a slot on him.  

[Eastport bills]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't feel confident in Bates as a long-term answer at C. 

 

My ideal would be to draft the biggest, brawliest C/G we can this season, let him play G and learn this year, and move him to C next year.

 

 

You aren't going to free up much cap space by releasing Morse. 

 

Spotrac is usually accurate, but I think they're inaccurate here, Morse carries $6M dead cap (by their own accounting).  We save $5M on the cap, which is chump change for opening a hole "Very good NFL quality center" which we then may have to fill.

I’m not really sure about Mitch. His concussion history is troublesome but he’s a gamer and provides a lot of leadership for the O-line and he’s still a good center. It’s just the cap will not allow us to address everything. Everyone has their own priorities.

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, BeastMode54 said:

Whether he is here next year or not, the guy has had 7 concussions, and we haven't drafted a center since Eric Woods. I know LG, RG and RT are positions that get talked about as far as upgrading. But Center has to be a high priority

I like Morse but boy did KC luck out with a younger , more skilled replacement in Creed. 

 

Morse will definitely be here next year. I think he missed 1 or 2 games this year that weren't concussion related. Seems to have a good head on his shoulders 

[C.Biscuit97]

I have a feeling he is close to retiring anyways. 

[ProcessTruster]

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think he stays until he decides to go. He is a high level player and an important cog in the OL. I think they should extend him actually. 

 

I don't think these guys are interesting in drafting a pure center. They value that versatility. Mitch Morse was a LT at Mizzou who moved to center as a pro. Same for Ryan Bates, a LT at PSU who moved to guard whose best position is probably center. Greg Van Roten was a LT at UPenn who moved to guard as a pro and the Bills had him cross train at center. They had Ike Boettger learn to snap in training camp a few years ago. 

 

Just find the best linemen you can find and figure it out. 

Boettger is another injury casualty who was really coming on b4 blowing the achilles at the end of last season.  All reports are he is good to go and rehab was a big success.   He'll be in the mix for a starting job next year as will Tommy Doyle.  Plus Spencer Brown will have a normal offseason/OTA/camp for the first time.   

 

Not convinced the Bills don't have 2 or 3 guys coming back strong next year who we never saw at full strength (or at all ) this past season.   Rough season for injuries for this team.   

[Snappysnackcakes]

Ike Boettger is likely penciled as the LG for next season. As it stands today, assuming Morse is released, we’d have Dawkins/Boettger/Bates/draft pick/Brown. They’ve been developing Ike, Bates is the heir at C, and they’re gonna give Brown one more shot at RT. I think Beane is correct in his stance that Brown having missed camp and recovering from surgery stunted his development. 

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

You can draft a G/C prospect on day 3 to develop. Yet I'd like us to trade down maybe in round 3 and pick up a few more picks.

 

 

Day 2, please.

 

The Bills really value center, as they should.

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think that the Mitch Morse replacement is going to be Ryan Bates
 

That is just my opinion

 

What they need to do is draft some quality guards that fit the office it’s guys that can pass protect well and are mobile

Did you ask Aaron K.  ?  lol

 I am not sure what Bills want to run on offense yet still under Dorsey. at all.

But i sure would like to agree about Bates as next up and Morse can ride it out as he and the team see fit.

Restructure Morse and draft Guards 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

He’s still playing well. Keep him this year and then we should move on the following year. Too many holes to fill this year without him moving on

 

Exactly!  If they move on this year, they are just adding more dead cap money and still need to then replace him.  Better to keep him this year, then move on in 2024, but also draft a development guy this year who plays inside both center and guard

 

He certainly could upset the apple cart here by retiring this year, if that happens, then move Bates to center for 2023 or they end up playing the development guy this year.  More than likely he'd have retired before FA starts so they could then address there too if they feel better to go that way.

 

Should he retire, that's a different question.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

19 minutes ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

Ike Boettger is likely penciled as the LG for next season. As it stands today, assuming Morse is released, we’d have Dawkins/Boettger/Bates/draft pick/Brown. They’ve been developing Ike, Bates is the heir at C, and they’re gonna give Brown one more shot at RT. I think Beane is correct in his stance that Brown having missed camp and recovering from surgery stunted his development. 

 

If Morse is gone, think they need to do more than this.  I agree with giving Brown another shot, but the Bills line was played well below expectations this year.  I'm not sure I'd want to go into next year with the interior being Boettger, Bates, and draft pick.  I'd add a mid level FA vet in there too, someone better than a Stafford type and ideally who can play both guard and center.   Then let these three plus the Vet FA battle it out for 3 starting slots.  Whomever loses is first guy off the bench.  And if the vet you pickup can't play center, that kind of dictates one of the three starters will be Bates. 

 

If Morse is still with the team likely I'd do the same except then may try to find someone who is better as a tackle, but could play inside and he's the primary backup.

 

Also would try and upgrade the backup at tackle too in case Brown doesn't improve or maybe that guy is Doyle?

[MrEpsYtown]

55 minutes ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

Ike Boettger is likely penciled as the LG for next season. As it stands today, assuming Morse is released, we’d have Dawkins/Boettger/Bates/draft pick/Brown. They’ve been developing Ike, Bates is the heir at C, and they’re gonna give Brown one more shot at RT. I think Beane is correct in his stance that Brown having missed camp and recovering from surgery stunted his development. 

 

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

Boettger is another injury casualty who was really coming on b4 blowing the achilles at the end of last season.  All reports are he is good to go and rehab was a big success.   He'll be in the mix for a starting job next year as will Tommy Doyle.  Plus Spencer Brown will have a normal offseason/OTA/camp for the first time.   

 

Not convinced the Bills don't have 2 or 3 guys coming back strong next year who we never saw at full strength (or at all ) this past season.   Rough season for injuries for this team.   

I like Ike but he is also a UFA. I’m guessing he would come back here if given the opportunity. If I am him I am a little weary of the fact that he barely played after healthy despite the the fact that Saffold was terrible. 

I think the Bills aim a bit higher with a David Edwards type who is better, more experienced, and younger. 

[BillsPride12]

This would have been a much easier conversation to have if Beane drafted Creed Humphrey when he had the chance 

[US Egg]

2 hours ago, Trock said:

Concussions are no big deal.  I think he’ll play two more years. Then retire a Bill. 

[Trock]

25 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

He’s good. We don’t have to make another hole.  You want him gone?

2 hours ago, Pirate Angel said:

He has a wife, young kids, and money. Hard to believe the old ladys not in his ear telling him to retire. My guess would be he will make the Bills release him in order to keep his guaranteed money? Not entirely sure how that works, but 7 concussions he cant possibly think its smart to keep playing. 

Imagine if the “old lady” was that annoying where she would get in the way of a pro player’s career? 

[Mr. WEO]

Beane reminded him they have him under contract for 3 more concussions.  He's got another season to go...

[Mynamemike]

Morse has been solid imo but I reallyI thought he was going to retire two concussions ago.   I hope we draft or sign Mitch’s replacement and he goes and lives his best life outside of football for his family’s sake. On a side note I met Eric Wood in the parking lot at MetLife last season.  I was pretty inebriated but i remember him being super nice to the family and myself, shame what the injures did to his career. 

[US Egg]

Just now, Trock said:

He’s good. We don’t have to make another hole.  You want him gone?

I’m not a concussion expert. Silly me thinking these concussion/CTE concerns are always a serious matter. 
 

If Morse is willing to risk it, that is his business. I wish him well and a long healthy life.

[QCity]

8 minutes ago, Trock said:

He’s good. We don’t have to make another hole.  You want him gone?

 

 

One more hit to the head and the hole will create itself.  Better to plan it out and deal with it now than in October.

[John from Riverside]

I would not be shocked to see Morse cut
 

They save $6 million by doing it

 

And we have Ryan Bates on the roster

 

Draft some lineman

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Day 2, please.

 

The Bills really value center, as they should.

I think Round 2 could be used on a WR as liking taking a G in Round 1.

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

Boettger is another injury casualty who was really coming on b4 blowing the achilles at the end of last season.  All reports are he is good to go and rehab was a big success.   He'll be in the mix for a starting job next year as will Tommy Doyle.  Plus Spencer Brown will have a normal offseason/OTA/camp for the first time.   

 

Not convinced the Bills don't have 2 or 3 guys coming back strong next year who we never saw at full strength (or at all ) this past season.   Rough season for injuries for this team.   

the boettger's of the world are why were here where we are. no more "this should be ok enough". any one of these guys are fine to make the roster, but should have to fight top shelf talent (day 1-3 drafts) to get a start.

 

not just OTAs.

not just in TC.

 

EVERY. F'N. WEEK. bad game? next man up, fight for it again next week. ruthless business decisions every week, get some hunger in that room. cause i dont see it

 

that OL room is putrid

[FeelingOnYouboty]

He’s a soft, finesse player who now costs a lot and has had many concussions.

 

Beane has to be ruthless and cut him. Save money and actually build this line. The fact that he didn’t draft his replacement last year was disappointing. 

 

John Michael Schmitz-C Minnesota 6’4 320. Tough, smart, tone setter, leader. He should be Josh Allen’s Center for the rest of his career. 

 

On Day 1 he would be a Top 5 Center in this league and he’s my first round choice this year. 
 

Nick Broeker-LG Ole Miss 6’5 315 is another tough son of a gun who instantly transforms our OL from pushovers to a high end unit even as a rookie. 

 

I’d also sign Evan Brown-iOL and Taylor Lewan-RT who will be a cap casualty this season. 
 

Brett Veach transformed the Chiefs OL after that embarrassing Super Bowl loss in one offseason. We could do it too if we were clever and had any ambition. 
 

The fact that he already gave Spencer Brown a vote of confidence is a bad sign. 

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, buffalostu2 said:

Doesn't sound like you thought this through?   

 

 This is a Cole Beasley situation.  Adjust your 11 mil or walk.   He's not getting close to that on the open market when he has 7 concussions and misses games every year.  Nothing gets pushed out.  One year deal and comes back at 7 or 8 hopefully

You said “restructure” which specifically means keeping compensation the same but changing its structure. Usually that means converting salary or a roster bonus into a signing bonus to delay the cap hit. 

 

What you mean is that you want him to take a pay cut. I don’t have any issue with that, but if he said “no” we’d probably have to part ways with him and find a FA C to replace him. He’s due a roster bonus on the 3rd day of the league year so it would have to be done before then. I’d like to see a new OG and competition at RT so that could mean 3 new starters on the OL. That might not be optimal, but I’d be open to it. 
 

Another way to go would be to draft a player this year who (hopefully) will be his replacement next year and part ways next offseason. That obviously would work with or without going down the pay cut path.

[RyanC883]

def need to draft a G/C.  Patterson from ND looks like the perfect fit.  Can play G, then move to C.  (played C at ND, gave up 0 sacks through Jr. year, can't find Sr. year stats yet.)  

[Pirate Angel]

5 hours ago, Trock said:

He’s good. We don’t have to make another hole.  You want him gone?

Imagine if the “old lady” was that annoying where she would get in the way of a pro player’s career? 

Or she just wants him healthy and see his kids grow up without becoming a CTE wackjob

[Trock]

Just now, Pirate Angel said:

Or she just wants him healthy and see his kids grow up without becoming a CTE wackjob

“Chances of that are very slim.” I’m sure this is what he tells his nagging wife. 

[Figster]

11 hours ago, schoolhouserock said:

Have to hang onto Morse. Don’t create any new holes. He’s the perfect guy to have in the O-line room when the Bills (hopefully) invest multiple draft picks into the O-line.

 

[LyndonvilleBill]

8 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

def need to draft a G/C.  Patterson from ND looks like the perfect fit.  Can play G, then move to C.  (played C at ND, gave up 0 sacks through Jr. year, can't find Sr. year stats yet.)  

I also like Voorhees and Tippmann as options.

10 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I would not be shocked to see Morse cut
 

They save $6 million by doing it

 

And we have Ryan Bates on the roster

 

Draft some lineman

Is there any savings on the cap hit if he retires versus being cut?

[NastyNateSoldiers]

15 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think he stays until he decides to go. He is a high level player and an important cog in the OL. I think they should extend him actually. 

 

I don't think these guys are interesting in drafting a pure center. They value that versatility. Mitch Morse was a LT at Mizzou who moved to center as a pro. Same for Ryan Bates, a LT at PSU who moved to guard whose best position is probably center. Greg Van Roten was a LT at UPenn who moved to guard as a pro and the Bills had him cross train at center. They had Ike Boettger learn to snap in training camp a few years ago. 

 

Just find the best linemen you can find and figure it out. 

I realize he means alot  to the Oline but he is horrible in the run game . Every game he misses whether it was Felicano or Bates replacing him we always ran the ball much better in those games. Now when it comes to making the line calls and pass pro u won’t find much better then Morse.  I believe Bates can be our future center so why not get that start now let’s draft Oline heavy this yr and move on from Morse. 

[ProcessTruster]

16 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think he stays until he decides to go. He is a high level player and an important cog in the OL. I think they should extend him actually. 

 

I don't think these guys are interesting in drafting a pure center. They value that versatility. Mitch Morse was a LT at Mizzou who moved to center as a pro. Same for Ryan Bates, a LT at PSU who moved to guard whose best position is probably center. Greg Van Roten was a LT at UPenn who moved to guard as a pro and the Bills had him cross train at center. They had Ike Boettger learn to snap in training camp a few years ago. 

 

Just find the best linemen you can find and figure it out. 

Boettger is another injury casualty who was really coming on b4 blowing the achilles at the end of last season.  All reports are he is good to go and rehab was a big success.   He'll be in the mix for a starting job next year as will Tommy Doyle.  Plus Spencer Brown will have a normal offseason/OTA/camp for the first time.   

 

Not convinced the Bills don't have 2 or 3 guys coming back strong next year who we never saw at full strength (or at all ) this past season.   Rough season for injuries for this team.   

[Lagoon Blues]

As much as I want him to come back, Mitch should hang it up and spend the rest of his life with his family while he still can without serious concussion related issues.

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, buffalostu2 said:

Doesn't sound like you thought this through?   

 

 This is a Cole Beasley situation.  Adjust your 11 mil or walk.   He's not getting close to that on the open market when he has 7 concussions and misses games every year.  Nothing gets pushed out.  One year deal and comes back at 7 or 8 hopefully

 

 

His salary isn't $11M. It's $6.6M salary in 2023 and a $1.42M roster bonus (Or 1.8M on Overthecap). His cap hit is around $11.3M, but he's already received $3M of that in his signing bonus

 

Also, that's not called a re-structure. It's a salary cut or decrease. Re-structure generally means the same money paid along a different schedule.

 

But forced salary decreases work a lot better when you've got the leverage. With Beasley they knew they'd be happy to let him go and thought they'd find someone to replace him at the same level easily. Unfortunately, Crowder was injured the whole season. With Morse I'm not sure they feel they have the leverage. They'Ve got Bates on the roster but would have to replace him at guard if they put him at center. And while Bates has played OK at center I'm not sure they feel all that confident he'd play at the same level. We may see, I guess.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I would not be shocked to see Morse cut
 

They save $6 million by doing it

 

And we have Ryan Bates on the roster

 

Draft some lineman

 

 

They don't save $6M by doing it. He has $6M remaining in dead money. Compare that with $8.25M in cash due (overthecap.com). If he is cut he'd be cut before the first day of the league year to avoid some money guaranteeing and such, so a lot of that dead money could be pushed to the 2024 cap, but it would HAVE to be paid that year. We don't save much overall by cutting him.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

 

Is there any savings on the cap hit if he retires versus being cut?

 

 

Only theoretically.

 

The Bills could theoretically try to go after part of his signing bonus. But they have shown zero interest in doing that to guys who have genuinely given their all. 

 

They might have done it with Vontae Davis, after his halftime retirement, but Vontae came voluntarily and returned it.

 

With the concussion concerns, I greatly doubt the Bills would try that move. It would look absolutely vicious and would not play well in the locker room.

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

def need to draft a G/C.  Patterson from ND looks like the perfect fit.  Can play G, then move to C.  (played C at ND, gave up 0 sacks through Jr. year, can't find Sr. year stats yet.)  

 

 

This seems to me like a great fit. Hope they do this with someone in the first two days, maybe even the first two rounds.