MERGE WITH OTHER THREAD

[Ethan in Cleveland]

29 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

It’s really unfortunate that good interior linemen went one pick after two of our most head scratching picks. Two years ago…creed Humphrey went one pick after picking Basham. He’s now a pro bowl center. Last year…Parham went one pick after bernard. He made the all rookie team. Meanwhile…interior oline is arguably our biggest weakness two years later. 

And there is no revisionism there. There were tons of people screaming for Humphrey at the time. It made perfect sense, but instead Beane took tub of goo Basham who has barely saw the field his rookie year and in season two was only slightly better than bust Epenesa  

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

We should have drafted Nakobe Dean in round 2 instead of Cook.  The only reason why he's not starting in Philly is because TJ Edwards is ahead of him on the depth chart.  He would have started in the middle here giving flexibility with Edmunds.  It would have given us three solid starting LBs after Miller went down.  That's the risk when you shoot-the-moon on a 33-year old LB.  We didn't realize the benefit, we absorbed the risks with Von Miller's signing.  I for one would enjoy seeing what Edmunds could do on the edge regularly.  

Why? He struggles to get off blocks and playing with power. Not really a good combination when fighting lineman every play.

[Beck Water]

12 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Well, a quick check shows that Dylan Parham, Las Vegas Raiders, made the NFL.com all rookie team — drafted right after Bernard, 90th overall. I'm not gonna continue this exercise but I'm pretty sure history shows a lot of good lineman in the third and fourth rounds.. Yes, hindsight is 20/20 but management should have known O-line was a greater need than a very undersized linebacker with middling speed.

 

12 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

Parham was right there. I get that LB was a depth need but the team needed both depth at guard and someone to take over for Saffold long term.

 

https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2023/1/26/23553641/raiders-news-dylan-parham-struggled-rookie

https://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2023/01/17/dylan-parham-had-up-and-down-rookie-season-with-raiders/

 

I dunno about "all rookie team", who picks it and what the criteria are.  I think he's a bit on the small side for an NFL G?  6'3" 310?  And of course the Raiders were not a good team this year either at passing or running the ball so there's a lower bar for getting a lot of snaps with them.  But reaction to his play this season was, to say the least, mixed.

 

The point is, while in general, I'm sure there are talented G to be found in the 3rd and 4th round, in specific if we'd drafted Parham, I don't think he'd have seen the field much for the Bills, and if he did, fans might well be asking "Why did we spend a 3rd round pick on an undersized guard who can't see the field and who is surrendering pressure at the highest rate for his position when he does?  What a waste of a pick!"

 

I don't understand the Terrel Bernard pick any better than anyone else, but I had a quick look and I didn't see anyone drafted a couple picks before or 10-15 picks afterwards who seemed like a slam-dunk improvement.  Maybe there's someone there who will emerge next season.

 

This is not because I'm a huge Bills Drafting Apologist.  I'm still salty about Boogie Basham in 2021 when Creed Humphrey was on the board 2 picks later.  But, little though I follow college football, I thought it was clear Creed Humphrey was going to be a very very good OL.

 

I think if we want to be salty about last year's draft and OL, the place to be salty might be drafting Kaiir Elam at 23 with Tyler Smith and Tyler Linderbaum right behind him.  I don't know if Linderbaum is named to an "all rookie team", but he played C all season for a team that lives and dies with their OL and was named a "Pro Bowl Snub".

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/tyler-linderbaum-afc-biggest-pro-bowl-snubs
Tyler Smith took over for Tyron Smith in Dallas and won praise.

 

I think that's a better example of the Bills drafting for need (needed a corner, so they took Elam) vs. really looking at the qualities of the players.  Just me maybe, and of course you could prove right about Dylan Parham.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

People can bellyache about Beane. But nothing beats the stupidity of the Bills desperately needing a DT, having Ngata fall into their laps, and passing on him for a terrible safety in Donte Whitner. Glad we aren’t back in that era! 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I don’t care about  PFF data. You didn’t know anything about Lloyd? Really? Edmunds at the edge?

 

Anyway, Lloyd played 80% of the defensive snaps, a lot of which came next to another rookie in Chad Muma for a playoff team. Dean is an undersized player who sat the bench and still got hurt (his durability was always a concern.) 

 

One guy played and flashed in the NFL. One guy sat the bench and still got hurt and was really good in college. i am definitely not the one joking here
 

 

 

Not trying to get into a tiff here, but Lloyd did nothing statistically, I didn't look at PFF, I looked at his stats.  15 starts at LB, 0 sacks, 0 TFL, 2 QB Hits.  IDK, maybe he's Milano light for Milano's first four years, pass defense only.  That's not the point.  Dean is five times the overall LB that Lloyd is.  From appearances it looks as if Lloyd is a pass-defending LB like Milano.  Not sure that's really what we need and what's going to improve the D.  We sorely lack run-stopping and overall well-rounded LBs.  

 

I'm not trying to lock horns with you here.   But Dean played behind Edwards, one of the best MLBs in the league.  He, Edwards, contributes heavily to Philly's D.  

 

Either way, I'd have taken Fortner over Cook any day because we needed, and still do, OL.  Cook was a luxury pick that we both reached for and couldn't afford.  He has shown no particular ability to be the full-time ball carrier in college and did we really need another receiving option short, that Allen often ignores.  No.  HIs catch% is unimpressive otherwise.  Poor use of a draft pick.  

Edited January 29, 2023 by PBF81

[SCBills]

This past draft is so strange…

 

Kaiir Elam looks like he could be a future CB1, but we only have limited looks because of McD’s bizarre obsession with a rotation this year. 
 

James Cook, ditto, future RB1, but we stuck with the lesser talented RB for much of the time in Singletary due to experience and trust.  
 

Khalil Shakir looks like a dynamic WR… took forever to find a role for him.  
 

Those are 3 very real potential building blocks that we may have hit on.  Nevermind the Benford draft pick who, at least looks like good CB depth, at best he may be a legit Safety next year.  
 

One could surmise we may go into ‘23 with 4 starters from that draft … and real reason to be excited about all of them.  
 

Then there’s the Bernard pick.  Just infuriating.  Made no sense at the time and a year later the picture doesn’t look any less blurry for his role on this team … unless his role, as a 3rd rounder, was always depth/ST linebacker.. in which case, wow…

[Beck Water]

20 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

And there is no revisionism there. There were tons of people screaming for Humphrey at the time. It made perfect sense, but instead Beane took tub of goo Basham who has barely saw the field his rookie year and in season two was only slightly better than bust Epenesa  

 

Not that this is saying a lot for Epenesa, but some people would argue that Epenesa was significantly better than Basham this year

Unless you're comparing Basham this year to Epenesa last year? Which, since the rest of the line was very different, may not be fair.

 

 

[PBF81]

22 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Why? He struggles to get off blocks and playing with power. Not really a good combination when fighting lineman every play.

 

Just trying to find his role.  He seems to struggle doing everything.  He's like Oliver, shows up for some games, in others you never hear his name called.  

 

I wasn't trying to suggest that he'd be the next Von Miller, but the reason why we're discussing this is because Beane can't draft.  Again, the reason why we had so many 2 LB sets is because we simply didn't have another LB capable of starting after Miller went down, not surprisingly at 33 and with recent injury issues prior to coming here.  

 

I'm not bullish on Edmunds, he's an average to above-average LB and an inconsistent one at that.  He posts great games sometimes, and stinkers at others.  They didn't pick up his 5th year for a reason.  We traded up to get him.  Not a great decision.  

 

He did improve this season, but it's also a contract year, so who knows whether that improvement will stick.  

Edited January 29, 2023 by PBF81

[First Round Bust]

6-1 - 220 - same size as Milano - position switch to the outside ?  but does he have the footspeed - Milano switched positions from college safety to OLB as well

 

This season - special teams replacement for Matakevich who made 3.2M as special teamer for sure but backup MLB to Edmunds....Dodson ?  6 feet - 237 lbs 

[Success]

He's the Bills' Rocky Bleier.  Needs some time.

 

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Kaiir Elam looks like he could be a future CB1, but we only have limited looks because of McD’s bizarre obsession with a rotation this year. 

 

That's something else that we're really not talking about.  

 

The entire d rotates except for the LBs where we have zero depth, hell, we don't even have three reliable starters at LB.  

 

But players like Oliver should be expected to take at least 80% of the snaps.  Oliver had 50% and Rousseau had 44%.  Both 1st rounders.  That's ridiculous.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Just trying to find his role.  He seems to struggle doing everything.  He's like Oliver, shows up for some games, in others you never hear his name called.  

 

I wasn't trying to suggest that he'd be the next Von Miller, but the reason why we're discussing this is because Beane can't draft.  Again, the reason why we had so many 2 LB sets is because we simply didn't have another LB capable of starting after Miller went down, not surprisingly at 33 and with recent injury issues prior to coming here.  

 

I'm not bullish on Edmunds, he's an average to above-average LB and an inconsistent one at that.  He posts great games sometimes, and stinkers at others.  They didn't pick up his 5th year for a reason.  We traded up to get him.  Not a great decision.  

 

He did improve this season, but it's also a contract year, so who knows whether that improvement will stick.  

Miller is a LB in name only in this defense because of his number. He's a DE here. We run so many 2 LB sets because we run nickel pretty much as our base. Not because Von went down. We've ran nickel pretty much since McDermott got here. 

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Not that this is saying a lot for Epenesa, but some people would argue that Epenesa was significantly better than Basham this year

Unless you're comparing Basham this year to Epenesa last year? Which, since the rest of the line was very different, may not be fair.

 

One of the most important things is consistency.  Take great players, the Bosa's, or the Watt's.  They play hard and well almost all the time.  

 

Our best players in the F7, besides Milano who's taken a number of years to develop into that player, don't show up with any consistency.  Somewhere hear or elsewhere I read that after Miller went out, our entire D regressed in a big way.  

 

Beane has drafted almost no consistent players.  Milano wasn't one of Beane's draftees.  

3 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Miller is a LB in name only in this defense because of his number. He's a DE here. We run so many 2 LB sets because we run nickel pretty much as our base. Not because Von went down. We've ran nickel pretty much since McDermott got here. 

 

Agreed, but that fuels my statements about the LB-ing corps even more.  I threw him in there to eliminate people saying that we had three until he went out.  

 

We've had only two decent LBs the entire time that Beane's been here, if even two, as it's taken Milano what, five seasons to develop to where he is now.  

 

Again, the point being that we have only two LBs, and if Edmunds leaves, ... then what, rhetorically.  

[John from Riverside]

41 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

And there is no revisionism there. There were tons of people screaming for Humphrey at the time. It made perfect sense, but instead Beane took tub of goo Basham who has barely saw the field his rookie year and in season two was only slightly better than bust Epenesa  

In retrospect, that would’ve absolutely been the right pic he could’ve played guard until Morse was ready to retire

 

Oh well time to go onto the next draft

[Beck Water]

14 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Yes, I know he looked terrible this season in limited play.

3rd rounder in a potential Super Bowl year.

We needed OL and WR badly.

Why did we draft him?

 

The Bills play a base 4-2-5 defense… 4 down linemen, two linebackers, 5 DBs including a Nickel (Taron) who acts as a linebacker at times. Was Bernard intended as insurance against a Taron or Edmunds injury? Was he intended to be used as a core special teamer and traditional OLB in 4-3 looks?

 

I didn’t understand this pick at the time and still don’t … unless it was always the plan to groom him to replace Edmunds… which also seems odd in a SB year.

 

So… what do you think was the ideal outcome Beane had in mind?

 

Try to keep the snarky/defeatist answers to a minimum.

 

Slept on it and the best I can come up with is that the Bills drafted him to groom as an eventual replacement for Taron Johnson or Matt Milano.

Milano similar physical makeup - 6'0" 223 when drafted.  Similar evaluation as being a "tweener" between safety and LB

 

If so, that's an example of a trend under Beane, they try to draft guys with high physical ceilings and develop them (AJE, where they asked him to transform his body completely and then re-learn how to play in a new body) rather than guys who can contribute fairly immediately.

 

13 hours ago, JohnNord said:

It’s looking like a pretty bad pick.  I don’t believe Bernard was drafted to replace Edmunds.  My guess is maybe they thought he could be the 3rd LB in a 4-3?  I just know he struggled badly when he saw time this season.  

 

I don't believe he was drafted to replace Edmunds either.  The one game where Bernard saw significant time, was the first NYJ game where he played for Milano.   To be fair, he had very novice secondary playing behind him - Hamlin and Jaquan Johnson at safety, Christian Benford as one of the CB.

 

But still, if it was supposed to be a benchmark of "how is he doing on that eventually replace Milano?" growth, the answer was "back in the pot with you!"

Edited January 29, 2023 by Beck Water

[frostbitmic]

1. Special Teams are 1/3 of the game, McD likes him some special team players. (Matakevitch replacement)

 

2. Backup to both Edmunds and Milano.

 

3. Potentially changing to a 4-3 defense next year and getting away from the cover nobody passive defense that makes sure the opponent doesn't throw a 20 yard pass on 3rd and 5.

Edited January 29, 2023 by frostbitmic

[bigK14094]

Cook is a part time player at least.  He is a zero yards after the first hit, but his speed gets him a lot of good yards sometimes.  Not the back for the goal line or any short yardage.  singletary can get a  couple of yards after first contact, so he is a must resign imho.  As for this lb, well, he will be  gone soon enough, once his contract runs out.

Yes, the draft plans seems a litle sketchy and out of sync.  Now, I understand that picking 27th or whatever you don't get the big hit first rounders, but rouseau and Elam can play in the league.  Maybe not all pros right now, but capable starters after their first year.  No excuse after that as drafting for need is legit.  And, if Taiwan Jones is on the roster again next year I am going to scream/

[MrEpsYtown]

49 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Not trying to get into a tiff here, but Lloyd did nothing statistically, I didn't look at PFF, I looked at his stats.  15 starts at LB, 0 sacks, 0 TFL, 2 QB Hits.  IDK, maybe he's Milano light for Milano's first four years, pass defense only.  That's not the point.  Dean is five times the overall LB that Lloyd is.  From appearances it looks as if Lloyd is a pass-defending LB like Milano.  Not sure that's really what we need and what's going to improve the D.  We sorely lack run-stopping and overall well-rounded LBs.  

 

I'm not trying to lock horns with you here.   But Dean played behind Edwards, one of the best MLBs in the league.  He, Edwards, contributes heavily to Philly's D.  

 

Either way, I'd have taken Fortner over Cook any day because we needed, and still do, OL.  Cook was a luxury pick that we both reached for and couldn't afford.  He has shown no particular ability to be the full-time ball carrier in college and did we really need another receiving option short, that Allen often ignores.  No.  HIs catch% is unimpressive otherwise.  Poor use of a draft pick.  

I hear ya. No locking horns here either. Dean to me is more of a will. I dont see him holding up at mike, where Lloyd does. I do think the Eagles give Dean a shot if Edwards is gone, but I still think he is too small. Lloyd was a premium run defender in college and I think he will continue to improve and form a pretty good tandem with Muma. 
 

And yes, we have missed out on a number of second round/third round linemen beculause we looked elsewhere and it hurts. 

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I hear ya. No locking horns here either. Dean to me is more of a will. I dont see him holding up at mike, where Lloyd does. I do think the Eagles give Dean a shot if Edwards is gone, but I still think he is too small. Lloyd was a premium run defender in college and I think he will continue to improve and form a pretty good tandem with Muma. 
 

And yes, we have missed out on a number of second round/third round linemen beculause we looked elsewhere and it hurts. 

 

All in all, the holes we have are due to the lack of effective drafting.  That's the main point that we seem to agree on.  You never know how players turn out over time.  

[Sisyphean Bills]

9 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

Cook is a part time player at least.  He is a zero yards after the first hit, but his speed gets him a lot of good yards sometimes.  Not the back for the goal line or any short yardage.  singletary can get a  couple of yards after first contact, so he is a must resign imho.  As for this lb, well, he will be  gone soon enough, once his contract runs out.

Yes, the draft plans seems a litle sketchy and out of sync.  Now, I understand that picking 27th or whatever you don't get the big hit first rounders, but rouseau and Elam can play in the league.  Maybe not all pros right now, but capable starters after their first year.  No excuse after that as drafting for need is legit.  And, if Taiwan Jones is on the roster again next year I am going to scream/

I dunno. It's hard to feel like any RB is a "must" in today's NFL. There's plenty of evidence that after a handful of productive seasons, the best move is to trade the one you have in and drive a new one off the draft lot.

[Coach Tuesday]

Beane basically threw all of their 2022 draft picks in the garbage.  It was a horrible draft at the worst possible time - they're gonna need the cheap labor reinforcements with Allen's cap hit going up, but they're not on the roster.

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Beane basically threw all of their 2022 draft picks in the garbage.  It was a horrible draft at the worst possible time - they're gonna need the cheap labor reinforcements with Allen's cap hit going up, but they're not on the roster.

Yeah, no he didn’t

There are two pics out of that draft that are not panning out into something

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Yeah, no he didn’t

There are two pics out of that draft that are not panning out into something

 

Elam was a healthy scratch for much of the year and they didn't deploy him to his strengths.

 

Cook is a pass-catching back who caught 21 passes all season.

 

Bernard can't play football and doesn't play a premium position anyhow.  Healthy scratch.

 

Shakir was barely used.

 

Benford spent a lot of time out of the lineup.

 

Arazia and Tenuta are not on the team anymore.

 

Spector was inactive all year.

 

They did not get a single useful impact from a single pick.  They failed meaningfully to address o-line or WR or TE.

 

It was a garbage draft.

[harmonkillebrew]

bad pick.  My guess is BPA. They had a 2nd round grade on him.  I hate the hubris of BPA, as if drafting effective players is an exact science. You can't go pure BPA in the top 3 rounds in positions w/o need.

 

the only possible needs were: 3 LB looks (never saw that with Bernard all year), or backup to Milano.  He isn't close to replacing Edmunds

[Success]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Elam was a healthy scratch for much of the year and they didn't deploy him to his strengths.

 

Cook is a pass-catching back who caught 21 passes all season.

 

Bernard can't play football and doesn't play a premium position anyhow.  Healthy scratch.

 

Shakir was barely used.

 

Benford spent a lot of time out of the lineup.

 

Arazia and Tenuta are not on the team anymore.

 

Spector was inactive all year.

 

They did not get a single useful impact from a single pick.  They failed meaningfully to address o-line or WR or TE.

 

It was a garbage draft.

 

No offense - but this is sort of a classic "hot take" evaulation.

 

Elam is likely to be our #1 corner in the next few years.  Cook came on strong at the end of the season - someone said he could be our Kamara w/ a bit more work, and I'd agree w/ that. Shakir also came on strong at the end, and will be a starter for this team in pretty short order.  Benford was a late-round find and I'd bet he's starting at safety next year.  

[Estro]

It was a McDermott pick. Wasn't the story McDermott is best buds with the Baylor HC. One of the many issues with having a defensive minded HC. The conservative game plans is a huge problem, but the consistent high draft picks spent on defensive players over offensive players is a bigger problem. 

 

Since drafting Allen in '18 

 

We've gone:

 

'18

1st - Josh Allen

1st - Tremaine Edmunds 

3rd - Harrison Phillips

 

'19

1st - Ed Oliver

2nd - Cody Ford

3rd - Devin Singletary

3rd - Dawson Knox

 

'20

2nd - AJ Epenesa 

3rd - Zack Moss

 

'21

1st - Greg Rousseau

2nd - Boogie Basham

3rd - Spencer Brown

 

'22

1st - Kaiir Elam

2nd - James Cook

3rd - Terrel Bernard

 

That's 8 premium picks on defense & 7 on offense. The problem with the 7 on offense is 3 were spent on RBs, perhaps the least valuable offensive position.

 

This team needs an influx of young talent on yhe offensive side of the ball.

[Airseven]

It shouldn’t have taken that Bengals game for fans to admit Beane’s draft failures.

[John from Riverside]

11 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Elam was a healthy scratch for much of the year and they didn't deploy him to his strengths.

 

Cook is a pass-catching back who caught 21 passes all season.

 

Bernard can't play football and doesn't play a premium position anyhow.  Healthy scratch.

 

Shakir was barely used.

 

Benford spent a lot of time out of the lineup.

 

Arazia and Tenuta are not on the team anymore.

 

Spector was inactive all year.

 

They did not get a single useful impact from a single pick.  They failed meaningfully to address o-line or WR or TE.

 

It was a garbage draft.

Well, hell year one they should all be stars!

 

On a team with establish veterans

 

That went 13 and three

[Coach Tuesday]

15 minutes ago, Success said:

 

No offense - but this is sort of a classic "hot take" evaulation.

 

Elam is likely to be our #1 corner in the next few years.  Cook came on strong at the end of the season - someone said he could be our Kamara w/ a bit more work, and I'd agree w/ that. Shakir also came on strong at the end, and will be a starter for this team in pretty short order.  Benford was a late-round find and I'd bet he's starting at safety next year.  

No offense taken.  I wasn’t a fan of the draft at the time.  They needed help at premium positions and they got none.  

[KOKBILLS]

16 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Yes, I know he looked terrible this season in limited play.

3rd rounder in a potential Super Bowl year.

We needed OL and WR badly.

Why did we draft him?

 

The Bills play a base 4-2-5 defense… 4 down linemen, two linebackers, 5 DBs including a Nickel (Taron) who acts as a linebacker at times. Was Bernard intended as insurance against a Taron or Edmunds injury? Was he intended to be used as a core special teamer and traditional OLB in 4-3 looks?

 

I didn’t understand this pick at the time and still don’t … unless it was always the plan to groom him to replace Edmunds… which also seems odd in a SB year.

 

So… what do you think was the ideal outcome Beane had in mind?

 

Try to keep the snarky/defeatist answers to a minimum.

 

That pick is still a mystery. I remember the thoughts after the Draft to help explain it were centered around using 3 LB's more...That Bernard would provide match-up possibilities, and that he was a good blitzer...But that certainly never materialized. It's interesting that despite all those injuries in the secondary the Bills did not go 3 LB's at all. Just because Teron plays slot CB it does not mean he can't be on the field with 3 LB's. But even if they did, I get the feeling Bernard would not have been that 3rd LB anyway...

 

That does not mean the Bills can't do some of that next year, and that Bernard would be that LB...That's best case scenario I think...He's not a bad football player. Somewhere in the NFL there's probably a decent role for him...And the Bills could figure that out. But I don't see him filling either of the other two spots. Back up for Milano for sure. 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

All in all, the holes we have are due to the lack of effective drafting.  That's the main point that we seem to agree on.  You never know how players turn out over time.  

 

 

If you compare the Bills drafting to other teams in the past 5 seasons it is pretty solid.

 

What they are absolutely atrocious at is free agency.

 

In the last two years Doug Whaley was employed they signed an NFL DPOY candidate(Lorax) and NFL leading tackler(Zach Brown) for near league minimum and then Hyde and Poyer to exceptional value deals.

 

The only bargain they've gotten in UFA since Beane has been in charge is one year of Daryl Williams cheap.

 

They have literally overpaid, gotten virtually nothing or occasionally got what they paid for from every other UFA they've brought in.

 

It's very hard to be as inefficient with salary cap dollars as Beane has............and this is AFTER he set a then NFL record for dead money created in the 2018 offseason with the McBeane culture cleanse.

 

This team should easily be $50M under the salary cap entering this offseason...........in which case the drafts look a bit more palatable.

Edited January 29, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Parham went one pick after bernard. He made the all rookie team.

 

Parham gave up 55 pressures this year, the 2nd most of any OL in the league. I have no idea why he made the all rookie team, maybe just because he started all year and other rookie guards didn't? Bernard looks like a bust of a pick after just one season if we're being honest but I don't know that Parham would have been any better.

[dgrochester55]

59 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Elam was a healthy scratch for much of the year and they didn't deploy him to his strengths.

 

Cook is a pass-catching back who caught 21 passes all season.

 

Bernard can't play football and doesn't play a premium position anyhow.  Healthy scratch.

 

Shakir was barely used.

 

Benford spent a lot of time out of the lineup.

 

Arazia and Tenuta are not on the team anymore.

 

Spector was inactive all year.

 

They did not get a single useful impact from a single pick.  They failed meaningfully to address o-line or WR or TE.

 

It was a garbage draft.

 

Benford was a steal and surpassed Elam, who was not a bust by any means.   It was more about what Benford did than what Elam didn't do.  The result, two corners who will be a big part of next year.  

 

Cook was not as productive as some of the other RB's drafted in this class but came on strong at the end of the year.   I blame the system more for the lack of receptions than the player. He showed flashes and I would like to see what he can do with more opportunities. 

 

Bernard, looks like a bad pick so far, no way around that .   Jury is out on Shakir, no one could have seen the allegations coming on Arazia, and 7th round picks don't always make the team let alone become major contributors on year one.  

 

It is true that the draft did not address some positions, we counted on veterans such as Crowder, OJ Howard and Saffold to do so,  and they did not come through.    If anything, the free agent signings in the offseason were the major misses.  

 

I am not trying to sugar coat the fact that there have been a lot of misses in the draft over the last 4 years, or say that this was great, but it is way too early to call the entire draft class a bust.  

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by dgrochester55

[PBF81]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If you compare the Bills drafting to other teams in the past 5 seasons it is pretty solid.

 

What they are absolutely atrocious at is free agency.

 

In the last two years Doug Whaley was employed they signed an NFL DPOY candidate(Lorax) and NFL leading tackler(Zach Brown) for near league minimum and then Hyde and Poyer to exceptional value deals.

 

The only bargain they've gotten in UFA since Beane has been in charge is one year of Daryl Williams cheap.

 

They have literally overpaid, gotten virtually nothing or occasionally got what they paid for from every other UFA they've brought in.

 

It's very hard to be as inefficient with salary cap dollars as Beane has............and this is AFTER he set a then NFL record for dead money created in the 2018 offseason with the McBeane culture cleanse.

 

This team should easily be $50M under the salary cap entering this offseason...........in which case the drafts look a bit more palatable.

 

We're not talking about other teams except for the best.  I'd be willing to wager that if we compare the Drafts for Philly, SF, Cinci, and KC that we'd be worse.  There's also a large degree of subjectivity in how someone views the draft.  For purposes of our brief discussion, I'll define mine as the necessity of having to get impact starters from your 1st and 2nd round picks, and at minimum solid depth or strong role-playing from your 3rd rounders and early day-3 picks.  

 

Here are our 1st and 2nd rounders on Beane's ticket:  

 

2018:  Allen (1st) & Edmunds (1st), the latter a trade up.  

2019:  Oliver (9th overall) and Ford (early 2nd) 

2020:  Epenesa (2nd) 

2021:  Rousseau (1st) & Basham (2nd)  

2022:  Elam (1st) & Cook (2nd)  

 

Granted, how they're used and how often are relevant, but now we're talking about McD/Coaching being an issue.  It's a pick your poison kinda thing.  

 

Either way, which of those players besides Allen do you consider to be impact players?  I don't consider any of them to be.  

 

The best are probably Oliver and Edmunds, neither of whose 5th years were picked up, which is telling there.  Ford's gone, Cook was a luxury pick and there's nothing in his collegiate dossier besides being related to Dalvin that suggests that he's an impact starter at his position.  He was drafted for his ability to catch out of the backfield, oddly the same reason we trade for Hines.  Cook has an unimpressive Catch%.  Rousseau, since Von Miller went down has been pedestrian.  Almost all of his releavant stats came against two teams with pedestrian offenses, the Jets and Pats, and struggling QBs.  He's not an impact player.  

 

I'm pretty certain that if we look at the 1st/2nd rounders of all the playoff teams this season, we'll find that they all drafted better than we did in that regard.  

 

Oh, and BTW, our 3rd rounders on Beane's watch ... 

 

Harrison Phillips

Singletary 

Knox 

Moss

Spencer Brown 

Bernard 

 

Phillips is gone and like so many of our other castoffs is playing better elsewhere.  

Singletary's gone now.  

Knox is good for a 3rd.  

Moss bust and gone. 

Brown, not good. 

Bernard, jury's out I suppose, at best.  

 

I'm open to discuss which parts of that render Beane good at drafting.  

Edited January 29, 2023 by PBF81

[TC in St. Louis]

I don't understand the pick.  I'm confident they had their reasons.  They tend to keep things confidential.  Wait and see.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Elam was a healthy scratch for much of the year and they didn't deploy him to his strengths.

 

Cook is a pass-catching back who caught 21 passes all season.

 

Bernard can't play football and doesn't play a premium position anyhow.  Healthy scratch.

 

Shakir was barely used.

 

Benford spent a lot of time out of the lineup.

 

Arazia and Tenuta are not on the team anymore.

 

Spector was inactive all year.

 

They did not get a single useful impact from a single pick.  They failed meaningfully to address o-line or WR or TE.

 

It was a garbage draft.

 

I will say though I think a lot of this is because of coaching, not talent. The handling of Elam all year has been baffling. When he was drafted a lot of Bills fans questioned the pick because we never play press man. My rationalization of the pick at that time was that it meant McDermott/Frazier planned to diversify their coverage packages which I took to be a good thing. But nope... They still constantly backed their corners 10 yards off the LOS and played a safe but below average starter in Dane Jackson instead of taking the high risk/high reward route, and predictably that defensive philosophy once again got taken to school in the playoffs. Every time I've watched Elam this year I've been impressed. Perfect, no, but he looks like he belongs. He just about shut down Tyreek Hill. How many other CBs can say that? He looks like a ball hawk too which is a skill set this defense has really missed since Tre went down last year. It's arguable we lose the Chiefs game and the wildcard Dolphins game if Elam isn't on the field. But for some reason McDermott/Frazier are terrified of mistakes to the point that they made him a healthy scratch behind washed up Xavier Rhodes at one point. So to me that is not an issue of talent evaluation, it's the coaches doing a horrible job developing their 1st round pick and using his skill set appropriately. And I think you can point to a similar issue for Cook and Shakir.

[Solomon Grundy]

17 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I think the plan is to develop him. He is undersized but so is/was Milano.   No guarantees it works out.  I think his production would have made him a much higher pick if he had more prototype size.  

McDermott is still looking for his "big nickel" to activate his dominating, imposing defense 😎

[Johnnyp566]

The honeymoon period has officially ended. I’m now thinking we may have some Ryan Grigson-lite comparisons. 

[Yantha]

20 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Yes, I know he looked terrible this season in limited play.

3rd rounder in a potential Super Bowl year.

We needed OL and WR badly.

Why did we draft him?

 

The Bills play a base 4-2-5 defense… 4 down linemen, two linebackers, 5 DBs including a Nickel (Taron) who acts as a linebacker at times. Was Bernard intended as insurance against a Taron or Edmunds injury? Was he intended to be used as a core special teamer and traditional OLB in 4-3 looks?

 

I didn’t understand this pick at the time and still don’t … unless it was always the plan to groom him to replace Edmunds… which also seems odd in a SB year.

 

So… what do you think was the ideal outcome Beane had in mind?

 

Try to keep the snarky/defeatist answers to a minimum.

I'd say special teams and depth with upside.  It didn't work out so far.

[Dopey]

Beane is a wizard.