Who is your choice for DC?

[HoofHearted]

22 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm a little confused as to what your intended meaning is.  Are you saying the 1TDT position (DaQuan/Settle) isn't a big cog in what makes the thing go?

Or that Jordan Phillips (3TDT usually) isn't?

 

If it's nothing we haven't seen all season, how did Miami and how did the Bengals appear more able to exploit more motion in the run game?

Was it just because we weren't keeping the backers clean?

 

The 1 techn isn't a big cog in what makes this thing go. Miami and Cinci got push up front. It's as simple as that. We got out-physicalled.

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

The 1 techn isn't a big cog in what makes this thing go. Miami and Cinci got push up front. It's as simple as that. We got out-physicalled.

 

No argument on that Miami and Cinci got push up front.  On the other hand, Jones DNP vs. Cinci and no word on when during Mia he got injured.  Phillips of course was playing with a torn rotator cuff, DNP vs Miami. 

 

I will say that the resources expended on the 1TDT kind of argue that McDermott, Frazier, and Beane don't agree with you.  Those resources may not always have been well-spent, or on the right guy, but they do keep spending them.   Jones and Settle account for 6% of the Bills cap this season. 

 

So would you argue that having Jones out and Phillips, possibly Oliver playing hurt made no difference?  We would still get "out physicalled" because we don't have "dudes"?

 

I have to say, if allocating $55M (24%) of the estimated cap for 2023 (excluding Phillips) plus investing 2- 1st round (one #6), 2- second round, 1 third round, and our biggest FA signing is not sufficient to give us whatever we need on the DL, that seems to be a huge talent evaluation issue.

[BillMafia716ix]

Frazier will be back. Bills are likely to have a lot of personnel changes on the roster and the last thing we need is guys trying to learn a brand new defense. That’s going to set us back even further. We have to retool the defensive line and find guys that’s going to get after the QB. 

[Billz4ever]

4 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

Again, the Eagles aren't having any problems running the same defensive scheme. The difference is they have DUDES across their defensive line and we don't.

I agree with that completely. Watching our lines on both sides of the ball just get abused by Cincy was tough to watch.

 

My question is with how many resources this org has poured into the DL and how many we carry on the roster, how is it they are getting manhandled by a team missing 3 out of 5 OL starters?  Are we just that bad at evaluating talent?  I get we were without Von, Jones, and Phillips was playing with one arm, but is anything different that game even if those guys are 100%? I don't think so.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Billz4ever

[HoofHearted]

20 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

No argument on that Miami and Cinci got push up front.  On the other hand, Jones DNP vs. Cinci and no word on when during Mia he got injured.  Phillips of course was playing with a torn rotator cuff, DNP vs Miami. 

 

I will say that the resources expended on the 1TDT kind of argue that McDermott, Frazier, and Beane don't agree with you.  Those resources may not always have been well-spent, or on the right guy, but they do keep spending them.   Jones and Settle account for 6% of the Bills cap this season. 

 

So would you argue that having Jones out and Phillips, possibly Oliver playing hurt made no difference?  We would still get "out physicalled" because we don't have "dudes"?

 

I have to say, if allocating $55M (24%) of the estimated cap for 2023 (excluding Phillips) plus investing 2- 1st round (one #6), 2- second round, 1 third round, and our biggest FA signing is not sufficient to give us whatever we need on the DL, that seems to be a huge talent evaluation issue.

We spend money in general on the DL. It’s not specific to the 1 tech. DaQuon being out certainly made a difference. Anyone playing hurt certainly makes a difference. My point was the 1 tech isn’t any more important to this scheme than any other defensive line position.

 

The scheme in general is at its best (as are all defensive schemes) when you can generate pressure with 4. So DL in general is the cog that makes this thing go.

[fmr60]

2 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

This is pretty much where I am at,  the UFA WR class is not good and I don't expect whoever any of our draft choices are to start or contribute in a meaningful way in season 1. 

 

we arent narrowing rhe gap between KC or Cin this offseason and the teams below us who are close to catching us will be closer. If there is a season to take a flyer to retool and clean some cap up, this one might be it. I don't want to spin wheels.

 The Bills spent aggressively. this year{Miller} because this was their Super bowl year. It obviously did not work. Some aggressive retooling this year can open up funds for future years to enable them to renew, continue, their quest.

[HoofHearted]

9 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

I agree with that completely. Watching our lines on both sides of the ball just get abused by Cincy was tough to watch.

 

My question is with how many resources this org has poured into the DL and how many we carry on the roster, how is it they are getting manhandled by a team missing 3 out of 5 OL starters?  Are we just that bad at evaluating talent?  I get we were without Von, Jones, and Phillips was playing with one arm, but is anything different that game even if those guys are 100%? I don't think so.

If those guys are all healthy we hold up better vs the run and force Cinci into more situations where they have to push the ball further down the field which in-turn gives our pass rush more time to get home. Unequivocally, yes. It would have been different. How much? Who’s to say.

[Billz4ever]

10 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

If those guys are all healthy we hold up better vs the run and force Cinci into more situations where they have to push the ball further down the field which in-turn gives our pass rush more time to get home. Unequivocally, yes. It would have been different. How much? Who’s to say.

It just seems like we've spent year after year pumping more and more into this DL at the expense of the offense, with little to show for it, while other teams are markedly better in that respect, with lesser investment overall and I'm far from convinced just getting a healthy Jones and Von back next year changes the problems we have on the line and the defense overall.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Billz4ever

[billieve420]

2 hours ago, Trock said:

Let McD call the plays for a year.  

 

Yeah I have been on board with this. Don't renew Frazier's contract and let him go quietly. I don't see a hire coming from outside the organization and them installing new defense.

 

McDermott promotes someone from within to handle the day to day while he calls plays on gameday. McDermott should be on the hot seat next year and it is time to put onus on him to get team to the Super Bowl. It starts with his defense which has under performed despite the amount of money spent.

Edited January 25, 2023 by billieve420

[HoofHearted]

3 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

It just seems like we've spent year after year pumping more and more into this DL at the expense of the offense, with little to show for it, while other teams are markedly better in that respect, with lesser investment overall and I'm far from convinced just getting a healthy Jones and Von back next year changes the problems we have on the line and the defense overall.

It doesnt change the problems. The problem is our rotational back-ups aren't very good. Those problems still exist - they are just less noticeable when there's actual competent players mixed into the rotation.

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

It doesnt change the problems. The problem is our rotational back-ups aren't very good. Those problems still exist - they are just less noticeable when there's actual competent players mixed into the rotation.

Are you a fan of the constant rotation or would you rather see the better guys out there for more plays?

[HoofHearted]

26 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Are you a fan of the constant rotation or would you rather see the better guys out there for more plays?

I think there's value in the rotation. I'd like to see a better job as far as the management of it throughout games, but there's definitely value to doing it.

[BullBuchanan]

Ejiro Evero sounds like he'd be a good fit:
 

Head Coach of the Super Bowl Champion Rams, Sean McVay, is not surprised by Evero's success in Denver, "Incredibly smart, intelligent, great disposition, demeanor," McVay said of Evero. "[He] knows how to connect with all types of guys, knows how to be able to help them reach their highest potential…[He's an] absolute stud. Least surprised person of how well they've done and how great of a job he's doing leading the defense is me."
 

Evero is not married to one scheme, whether 4-3 or 3-4; he will let the players he has to dictate that, but one philosophy that he will always subscribe to is the importance of getting to the quarterback. "Regardless of how it turns out, you have to affect the quarterback," Evero said. "That's the No. 1 deal in terms of stopping the pass game in the NFL. We have to pressure the quarterback…"

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/LongFormArticle/Cleveland-Browns-NFL-Defensive-Coordinator-Updated-January--197818983/#197818983_1

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Jim Leonhard pleaseeee!!!!!

 

3 hours ago, nosejob said:

What has he been doing?

HC at Wisconsin. Defensive Coordinator and defensive backs coach prior to HC at Wisconsin. 

[somnus00]

1 hour ago, billieve420 said:

 

Yeah I have been on board with this. Don't renew Frazier's contract and let him go quietly. I don't see a hire coming from outside the organization and them installing new defense.

 

McDermott promotes someone from within to handle the day to day while he calls plays on gameday. McDermott should be on the hot seat next year and it is time to put onus on him to get team to the Super Bowl. It starts with his defense which has under performed despite the amount of money spent.

Butler or Babich would be my guess. Better not be Eric Washington. 

[Augie]

40 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

 

HC at Wisconsin. Defensive Coordinator and defensive backs coach prior to HC at Wisconsin. 

 

REALLY? I had no idea. Good for him! Let’s face it, he was out there only because he was smart enough to overcome his physical limitations. Sounds like good coaching material. 

[drummernut74]

Has anyone actually confirmed that Frazier’s contract is up, or is this now one long post based on frivolous rumor and speculation ?

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, drummernut74 said:

Has anyone actually confirmed that Frazier’s contract is up, or is this now one long post based on frivolous rumor and speculation ?

 

Well……I mean….it IS what we do?  🤷‍♂️

 

I honestly did a very Google search and saw nothing recent about his contract status. 

[T master]

6 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Leslie Frazier's contract is now up and if McDermott and Beane are smart, he will not be resigned. I personally would like Vic Fangio. He had solid defenses in San Francisco and Chicago when he was with both teams. He's older but would be one of my top choices

 

If he hadn't already been hired by the Browns I would have loved to see Jim Schwartz be brought back . I loved his aggressive style .

[wppete]

Brian Flores. 

[1st&ten]

4 hours ago, Trock said:

Let McD call the plays for a year.  

Except for the last 13 seconds of a game.

[PatsFanNH]

6 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Leslie Frazier's contract is now up and if McDermott and Beane are smart, he will not be resigned. I personally would like Vic Fangio. He had solid defenses in San Francisco and Chicago when he was with both teams. He's older but would be one of my top choices

What would you think of Brian Flores as your DC?

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

The guy I’d want is headed to Cleveland.

Exactly...he's ran the best version of the front 4 that I've seen following the Bills. McDermott's love affair with Leslie is so incredibly misguided. 

[Nextmanup]

6 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Anyone who can utilize all the top assets we already have and turn them into mean qb seeking missiles…

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

What would you think of Brian Flores as your DC?

Not opposed to it....

[ChasBB]

7 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

You'd be starting completely over defensively with that hire. Everyone complaining about wasting Josh's window - you're talking a 2-3 year transition from a personnel standpoint with a move like that.

In today's NFL there is no longer 2-3 year transition period.  Coordinators barely stay with one team for 3 years any longer.

[HoofHearted]

20 minutes ago, ChasBB said:

In today's NFL there is no longer 2-3 year transition period.  Coordinators barely stay with one team for 3 years any longer.

Exactly my point. We won't be transitioning our personnel to fit another scheme under this regime.

[Reed83HOF]

3 hours ago, fmr60 said:

 The Bills spent aggressively. this year{Miller} because this was their Super bowl year. It obviously did not work. Some aggressive retooling this year can open up funds for future years to enable them to renew, continue, their quest.

They way I look at it is just let Edmunds and Poyer go, maybe you try a tag and trade with Edmunds if there is a market. Try to trade Oliver for a Jeudy or other WR who is going to get paid with a salary swap and pay the extra 4 or 5 million to him on a new deal. Look long and hard about the cap dollars tied to our DL rotation and trade or cut some dead weight, even if you incurred a little dead cap this season who cares. It sets you up to have more cap space next offseason to really adjust. With Josh, we certainly aren't going to fall too far off. 

 

I hear a lot on wgr and read on Twitter and here, well draft a wr and ol this year (we should) but they won't start and will be brought along sloooooowly just like every rookie that last few years. They cannot and should not be counted on to make any impact in 2023, they won't play much. A small step back seems inevitable if they decide to make some moves. 

 

The thoughts of cutting Morse or not resigning Safford and expecting a rookie to play is unrealistic as well, this team does not do that. 

 

The alternatives are trying to keep players and kicking the cap hits down the road = keeping the band together. If they want to free space up to spend at other positions, this is the easiest and quickest way to do it. 

[nosejob]

3 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

If those guys are all healthy we hold up better vs the run and force Cinci into more situations where they have to push the ball further down the field which in-turn gives our pass rush more time to get home. Unequivocally, yes. It would have been different. How much? Who’s to say.

McD should take the play calling duties and prove to everyone he was letting the elder call the game....or not. Put up or shut up. Sh.. or get off the pot.

[nosejob]

2 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

 

HC at Wisconsin. Defensive Coordinator and defensive backs coach prior to HC at Wisconsin. 

Isn't there some big kid that's a killer at G/C coming out of there? Bring em both

[BillsShredder83]

8 hours ago, Golden*Wheels said:

Fangio has supposedly been linked to wherever Payton goes.

 

i do wonder what the effect will be anyway since Sean likely drives the D anyway....MAYBE a new guy is more aggressive but....would Sean let him be?

Ive been a McD supporter, but starting to seriously worry. We need top coordinators.  If Payton and Fangio are a team deal, im making that move. Sure you need to revamp the D with Fangio, but better than trying to bring in a different guy with same scheme. Might take 2years to draft the right guys, but you've got an offensive mind that maximizes the talent we have now. IDK, i certainly im listening to having that convo

[boater]

Funny. We're at 8 pages of who we should hire... like we're playing DC Madden.

 

I see little realization being paid to someone who may actually want to move Buffalo and serve here professionally.

[CEN-CAL17]

JIM LEONARD!!!!!! 100%!!!!!

[Dan in Owego]

Maybe someone like Dave Aranda from Baylor, word is he might leave the program and i know he and Sean are good friends. I will be honest i'm not an expert on his philosophy but it seems to be quite multiple and aggressive.

[sven233]

Until I see something about Frazier being out officially, I am not even going to give this another though.  McDermott loves the guy and I have a hard time believing they are going to push him out the door.  The guy I wanted was just hired by the Browns anyway.  But yeah......I'll have to see it to believe it in regards to Frazier being gone before I think about this too much.

[Rigotz]

11 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

1. We play way more 3 and Quarters than we do true Cover 2.

2. The Eagles aren't having any issues stopping good offenses running the exact same scheme.

 

I get it, fans over-react and want to point blame at someone. We got beat in the trenches on both sides of the ball. You can't overcome that regardless of the scheme.

This would be an interesting take if it were true.

 

The Eagles are an extremely multiple base front. They run a lot of 3-3-5 base front, 4-2-5, and 3-4-4. They adapt the front based on the team they’re facing.

We run a base 4-3 Nickel and change around things post-snap. That’s how we are “multiple” and it works against bad QBs because they have no keys to read pre-snap. This doesn’t work against great QBs because they read our keys live and know EXACTLY what base to prepare for ahead of the matchup.

 

So… you might not be part of the “fire everyone crowd” … but you should open your eyes or at least try to find a recent time when the Bills have shut down an elite offense. You’ll find your answer there and it’s not just the trenches.

 

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2022/10/24/23420170/state-eagles-defense-numbers-philadelphia-jonathan-gannon-nfl-football-scheme

[RyanC883]

10 hours ago, Mango said:

 

I think there is room to upgrade/replace both coordinators. 

But I am really frustrated with the FO that we are in this position. I just don't get how we got so tight against the cap and so many draft picks that have just been role players. We can replace all the coordinators we want, but it doesn't change the fact that we have neglected WR and OL for 4 years and gotten no return on a billion draft picks spent on DL. 

 

 

thats why Bean may need to go.  Can we trust him to draft offense?   Can we have someone else run the draft?   

Edited January 26, 2023 by RyanC883

[reddogblitz]

12 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

I don’t really care.  After some time to digest what happened on Sunday, I think the right plan is to focus on the offense.  As bad as the defense was, we win if we put up 30 points.  The offense was too disjointed a large part of the season and relied on Josh being super-human to score points.  

 

With our defense on Sunday, if we score more then they score more too. They were chewing up clock on long drives in the second half.  They could easily have scored 31+ if need be.

 

6 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

What would you think of Brian Flores as your DC?

 

ZERO interest here.

Edited January 26, 2023 by reddogblitz

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

The thoughts of cutting Morse or not resigning Safford and expecting a rookie to play is unrealistic as well, this team does not do that. 

 

I have a traffic cone that could play as well as Saffold.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Rigotz said:

This would be an interesting take if it were true.

 

The Eagles are an extremely multiple base front. They run a lot of 3-3-5 base front, 4-2-5, and 3-4-4. They adapt the front based on the team they’re facing.

We run a base 4-3 Nickel and change around things post-snap. That’s how we are “multiple” and it works against bad QBs because they have no keys to read pre-snap. This doesn’t work against great QBs because they read our keys live and know EXACTLY what base to prepare for ahead of the matchup.

 

So… you might not be part of the “fire everyone crowd” … but you should open your eyes or at least try to find a recent time when the Bills have shut down an elite offense. You’ll find your answer there and it’s not just the trenches.

 

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2022/10/24/23420170/state-eagles-defense-numbers-philadelphia-jonathan-gannon-nfl-football-scheme

 

The Eagles is, at heart, the same scheme. @HoofHearted is correct. They have used a lot of bear front type stuff against run heavy teams. That is an adjustment we have seen the Bills make in the past although certainly not with the frequency of Philly this year. 

 

The difference is opponents. Because the Eagles have played a schedule of run heavy teams. When you play teams who are pass first you are going to need to play more nickel and dime in the back end. 

 

I like Jonathan Gannon a lot. One of the really good young coaches in the league and if I was an owner looking for a Head Coach he would 100% be on my interview list. I have actually called him a young Sean McDermott previously. He has done a very good job there and it is fair to say he is more creative and multiple in his calling than Leslie... but it is fundamentally the same scheme. 

 

EDIT: oh and the answer to your question is week 6 at Arrowhead. In fact we did it multiple times early this year. Week 1 against a fully healthy Rams offense is another. You might not like the reasoning @HoofHearted has given but he is correct. The Bills defense succeeds with complexity on the backend and with the injuries to Hyde and Poyer, Tre not being back to himself, two rookies and various other fill ins playing back there this year they had to dial that back and it hurt them.

Edited January 26, 2023 by GunnerBill