McBeane's constant use of premium draft picks on role players

[Process]

Rousseau - 65% 

Epenesa - 43%

Cook - 33%

Basham - 31%

 

I've said it before, but the d line philosophy is the worst thing about McDermott. Having to constantly invest into a ten man rotation. At the expense of the offense. It's killing this team.

 

Add in the fact that McBeane clearly suck at evaluating d line talent and we have a complete disaster on our hands. 

 

Even if the guys we drafted didn't suck a**, they wouldn't play more than 65% of snaps. What are we doing spending first and second round picks on guys that will never be close to full time players?

 

A pass catching RB in the second round?

 

New rule...if McDermott is going to insist on a rotation on defense, he shouldnt be allowed to draft one before round 4, I don't care how big the need is. 

[SoCal Deek]

Put another way…if we’re going to rotate all these players in, we’re going to need to ask the league for fourteen rounds in next year’s draft. 😉

[ClemsonBills]

THANK YOU! The defensive line rotation simply pulls money away from other positions. No other team in the NFL has a rotation like we do. The philosophy would make sense if it was backed with championships. 

[BarleyNY]

Just now, ClemsonBills said:

THANK YOU! The defensive line rotation simply pulls money away from other positions. No other team in the NFL has a rotation like we do. The philosophy would make sense if it was backed with championships. 

Or if it helped in the playoffs 

[Yobogoya!]

Our first round pick couldn’t get stay on the field despite the crap we were rolling out at that position, our second round pick flashed some explosiveness but is still a less than part time player. Our third round pick… I had to look up, I completely forgot who that was. 
 

And that’s just this year’s draft. 
 

People used to give Beane a lot of credit for pulling in some late draft capital for bust players, completely ignoring that he was, you know, the guy who drafted those bust players. 
 

And our whole defensive rotation to keep the line fresh? Um… fresh for what? They don’t take down the quarterback when they’re fresh, winded, or anything in between. 🤷‍♂️

[bobobonators]

Its hard to argue against the points in this thread. 

[Southern Bills Fan]

It's definitely disappointing that we have poured so many premium assets into the D line over the past few years so that we have had to ignore the O line and WR depth and they could do absolutely nothing against 3 backups.

[SCBills]

Bills need to copy the Chiefs moving forward.

 

Invest heavy on Offense.  Hope Von can be our Chris Jones for the next two years when comes back and fill in with some good players/cheap contracts.

 

Chiefs Defense without Chris Jones is rough.  They have some guys like Karlaftis (Rousseau), Bolton (Milano), McDuffie (Elam) etc.., but they rely on Spags to elevate them beyond what they are.  

 

We have a defensive head coach.. if McD can't do that, he has no reason to be here. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

We dress ST only guys over real players and then you watch punts go down field with no Bills on the screen. You’d think we are the greatest ST unit in NFL history for the assets we use. Every other team figured out STs is about dead years ago. We have some great players, organization of complete idiots other then that 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Brianmoorman4jesus

[78thealltimegreat]

They just can’t get away with neglecting the oline and WR positions anymore. Period.

 

[gobills404]

Don’t forget a 3rd rounder on Bernard, who will likely never play any significant snaps in Buffalo

[Process]

Just now, SCBills said:

Bills need to copy the Chiefs moving forward.

 

Invest heavy on Offense.  Hope Von can be our Chris Jones for the next two years when comes back and fill in with some good players/cheap contracts.

 

Chiefs Defense without Chris Jones is rough.  They have some guys like Karlaftis (Rousseau), Bolton (Milano), McDuffie (Elam) etc.., but they rely on Spags to elevate them beyond what they are.  

 

We have a defensive head coach.. if McD can't do that, he has no reason to be here. 

That's the thing.... McDermott doesn't elevate crap.

 

For his defense to work, he needs a ten man rotation on the d line. And very specific and talented players at every other position. If we lose one or two guys, the entire defense falls apart and is complete garbage.

[papazoid]

theoretically, the so called starters should be fresher with a deep rotation

 

the bigger problem is the starters, except von,  arent getting to the QB

[Bruffalo]

3 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

Don’t forget a 3rd rounder on Bernard, who will likely never play any significant snaps in Buffalo

There needs to be a fundamental shift in draft strategy moving forward, because it's obvious that drafting on defense and spending next to nothing on offense isn't working. 

 

Knox has done a ton more for the team than Bernard, Basham, and probably Elam (at this point) combined. 

Offense is how you win in the modern football league. Period. 

[BarleyNY]

11 minutes ago, Process said:

Rousseau - 65% 

Epenesa - 43%

Cook - 33%

Basham - 31%

 

I've said it before, but the d line philosophy is the worst thing about McDermott. Having to constantly invest into a ten man rotation. At the expense of the offense. It's killing this team.

 

Add in the fact that McBeane clearly suck at evaluating d line talent and we have a complete disaster on our hands. 

 

Even if the guys we drafted didn't suck a**, they wouldn't play more than 65% of snaps. What are we doing spending first and second round picks on guys that will never be close to full time players?

 

A pass catching RB in the second round?

 

New rule...if McDermott is going to insist on a rotation on defense, he shouldnt be allowed to draft one before round 4, I don't care how big the need is. 

This has been a gripe of mine too. Using 3 picks in the second and third rounds on stable RBs, a second on a back up DL in Basham, a first on Rousseau. Let me speak to the strategy I think was employed with the Rousseau pick. I see him as a solid complementary DE who only will be here through his fifth year option. That’s because he’s a first round pick at DE and the expected extension with his drafting team will be a lot higher than his value. Exceptions happen where the player take their MV with that team, but they’re rare. So this was a cost control move by the Bills. It cleared space for Von Miller so I get it, but it’s a short term, win now move at the expense of long term team building. A backup DL in the second round who will be here for no more than four seasons is even more egregious.
 

Back to Rousseau. Late first round picks don’t have that high of a success rate - 1 in 3 get a second contract IIRC. It’s 1 in 2 for the whole first round. So again, I get it. But when you don’t have success in that early window, you screw yourselves long term. That seems to be the path we’re on. 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

Mcbean’s drafting ineptitude should be put into one big mega thread. 
Their record speaks for itself.  Tons of JAGS.  
My favorite thing is when one of the JAGS makes a play someone saying, “Oh is he a bust now!?” Then said player is never heard from for the rest of the game. 

[Process]

47 minutes ago, papazoid said:

theoretically, the so called starters should be fresher with a deep rotation

 

the bigger problem is the starters, except von,  arent getting to the QB

We shouldn't be spending 2nd round picks on rotational players that are here to keep the starters "fresh."

 

AJ and bashams production could easily be replaced by day 3 picks. 

[Billz4ever]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Rousseau - 65% 

Epenesa - 43%

Cook - 33%

Basham - 31%

 

I've said it before, but the d line philosophy is the worst thing about McDermott. Having to constantly invest into a ten man rotation. At the expense of the offense. It's killing this team.

 

Add in the fact that McBeane clearly suck at evaluating d line talent and we have a complete disaster on our hands. 

 

Even if the guys we drafted didn't suck a**, they wouldn't play more than 65% of snaps. What are we doing spending first and second round picks on guys that will never be close to full time players?

 

A pass catching RB in the second round?

 

New rule...if McDermott is going to insist on a rotation on defense, he shouldnt be allowed to draft one before round 4, I don't care how big the need is. 

I've always said, what good is a D-line rotation if most of the guys you're rotating are mediocre?  You just have a fresh, mediocre line.

[LabattBlue]

Where was Groot(he has a cool nickname so he must be good), in each of the two playoff games?  Or does he get a pass for sucking with Basham, Oliver and AJE all because Miller wasn’t there?

[Royale with Cheese]

I'm to the point of allowing Edmunds, Poyer and Oliver walk and putting the resources on offense.

If this is the performance we get with them on the field, no sense of paying that much for it.

[TheBeaneBandit]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Rousseau - 65% 

Epenesa - 43%

Cook - 33%

Basham - 31%

 

I've said it before, but the d line philosophy is the worst thing about McDermott. Having to constantly invest into a ten man rotation. At the expense of the offense. It's killing this team.

 

Add in the fact that McBeane clearly suck at evaluating d line talent and we have a complete disaster on our hands. 

 

Even if the guys we drafted didn't suck a**, they wouldn't play more than 65% of snaps. What are we doing spending first and second round picks on guys that will never be close to full time players?

 

A pass catching RB in the second round?

 

New rule...if McDermott is going to insist on a rotation on defense, he shouldnt be allowed to draft one before round 4, I don't care how big the need is. 

He didn't even turn into a pass catching RB either! He actually surprised between the tackles but I don't think he's much more than a change of pace back.

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

Where was Groot(he has a cool nickname so he must be good), in each of the two playoff games?  Or does he get a pass for sucking with Basham, Oliver and AJE all because Miller wasn’t there?

Von made the entire line look better than it actually was because he demanded so much attention.  Bruce Smith did the same thing.  

Edited January 23, 2023 by Billz4ever

[BananaB]

Way too much rotation. Shakir had less time than Beas and the same as McKenzie. 3 guys doing the same job. How did they not notice Hodgins can catch the ball in practice when Davis and McKenzie were dropping passes all over the field early in the season. Doesn’t surprise me, we traded about the best Olineman they drafted for peanuts because they planned on cutting him.

[Bruffalo]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

Von made the entire line look better than it actually is because he demanded so much attention.  Bruce Smith did the same thing.  

This is it.  Rousseau is good, maybe even with the potential to be great, but he's never going to be a #1 DE.  He needs a guy like Von to take the attention away from him so he can produce. It's really not surprising for a DE at his draft position. 

[LabattBlue]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I'm to the point of allowing Edmunds, Poyer and Oliver walk and putting the resources on offense.

If this is the performance we get with them on the field, no sense of paying that much for it.

100% agree. 

[Motor26]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Bills need to copy the Chiefs moving forward.

 

Invest heavy on Offense.  Hope Von can be our Chris Jones for the next two years when comes back and fill in with some good players/cheap contracts.

 

Chiefs Defense without Chris Jones is rough.  They have some guys like Karlaftis (Rousseau), Bolton (Milano), McDuffie (Elam) etc.., but they rely on Spags to elevate them beyond what they are.  

 

We have a defensive head coach.. if McD can't do that, he has no reason to be here. 

 

Yeah but the Chiefs have an offensive genius as their HC.

[Xwnyer]

1 minute ago, Motor26 said:

 

Yeah but the Chiefs have an offensive genius as their HC.

and we have an OC who is a loose canon and couldn't develop a game plan beyond Josh going deep

 

[Billz4ever]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I'm to the point of allowing Edmunds, Poyer and Oliver walk and putting the resources on offense.

If this is the performance we get with them on the field, no sense of paying that much for it.

Especially with what it's going to cost us to keep Edmunds.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

 

Yeah but the Chiefs have an offensive genius as their HC.

 

And we were just behind them in NFL scoring.  

[Blank Stare]

Someone I saw on Twitter yesterday said they are worried that we are seeing Josh Allen become the Phillip Rivers to Mahomes and Burrow’s Manning and Brady. Whether that’s true or not, that really hit home for me. Quite sobering. The patchwork approach to building the offense has to stop. Help Josh with better play calling and by building out the line and strengthening the weapons around him. Enough with the defense. 

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

 

Yeah but the Chiefs have an offensive genius as their HC.

 

Always going to be an issue I fear.

 

Maybe we retain Dorsey, but we've got two outcomes:

 

-He has another meh season and we let him go

 

-He has a great season and becomes a HC

 

Then we go through this all over again.

 

Not something Burrow, Mahomes or Lawrence will ever have to deal with as long as Reid, Taylor, Peterson are the architects of their Offense as HC. 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by SCBills

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, Process said:

That's the thing.... McDermott doesn't elevate crap.

 

For his defense to work, he needs a ten man rotation on the d line. And very specific and talented players at every other position. If we lose one or two guys, the entire defense falls apart and is complete garbage.

 

Exactly my point in another post.

 

For his defense to work against a top-tier Quarterback, he NEEDS to get constant pressure with only 4 guys.  

When he does decide to blitz, the corners give a 10 yard cushion, because he's absolutely terrified of allowing a big play.

 

Let's not even start with Kaiir Elam, who they apparently drafted in the 1st Round to sit the bench.  Not because he's been bad as a rookie, but because he's not a scheme fit.  He doesn't even know what to do with a corner that excels mostly in man coverage.

[colin]

1 hour ago, Process said:

That's the thing.... McDermott doesn't elevate crap.

 

For his defense to work, he needs a ten man rotation on the d line. And very specific and talented players at every other position. If we lose one or two guys, the entire defense falls apart and is complete garbage.

 

 

im so sick of hearing this.  its just so true tho, it seems like we build a house of cards on D, and wonder why physical play kills us.

 

i will say, we can get equal produciton that we got the last 4 playoff losses out of a D that has milano, von, groot, and like whoever else we scrub together while we'd do much better with 2 more sick OL and another WR.

 

we have coaching and allocation issues, issues that allen has glossed over

[nedboy7]

I don't believe they thought they were drafting role players.  They were trying to create the dominant front four needed to play their style of D.  It didn't work.  Time to get the offense some linemen.  I think they deserve another year.  We are a top tier team. 

[BillsFanSD]

This is a slightly-unconnected observation, but I'll put it here anyway because it's close enough:

 

Other teams play their rookies.  This team is absolutely allergic to letting their rookies see the field. This has been a consistent theme of McDermott's tenure -- remember Frank Gore trying to fall forward for positive yards late in games while Singletary was standing on the sidelines?  Our general attitude toward the draft should be that anybody good enough to be drafted in the first 2-3 rounds should be good enough to start and we failed as a coaching staff if they can't see the field.  It was infuriating to see players like Elam, Cook, and Shakir have their rookie seasons go to waste like this.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Especially with what it's going to cost us to keep Edmunds.

 

Edmunds supposedly makes throwing over the middle tougher....I'm not seeing it game days.  We seem to be easy to throw on in the middle.

He played well this year but it wasn't enough to warrant his contract.

 

I'm okay doing a 2021 draft where our first two picks are OL or WR.  

 

We had the same production on offense as the Bengals this year and they have 3 great to good WR.  They can still score and move the ball even with an OLINE in shambles.  Burrow can get the ball out quickly because he's got an open man somewhere....negating his bad offensive line.  They went to the Super Bowl last year with a terrible OL.  If you have the WR to trust where you can throw it up and they'll make the catch....you're good.

 

We were still in the game when Davis dropped that 35 or so yarder.  Boyd, Higgins or Chase make that catch all the time.  Davis comes up short....51% catch percentage.

[dorquemada]

18 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I'm to the point of allowing Edmunds, Poyer and Oliver walk and putting the resources on offense.

If this is the performance we get with them on the field, no sense of paying that much for it.

 

I hate to see Poyer go, but at this stage i hope he gets paid.  The Bills can't overpay for aging players.  I'd even suggest that the Bills probably need a youth movement at this point because the vets they've put together seem to be regular season warriors.  Give me a team that loses another game or two in the regular season but is sharp in the playoffs.  We barely beat Miami last week against a 3rd string nobody QB, and reality came crashing in yesterday. This team, as constituted, will not win in high pressure games.

[BearNorth]

we've had 45 draft picks since McDermott was hired, first year was Whaley, Beane after that.

 

Of the 45 - 27 are still with the team, all but 3 are still in the league.

 

Although many will not agree; the following are graded above JAG level

 

Josh

Groot

Tremaine

Cook

Motor

Milano

Dawkins

Bass-o-matic

 

6 starters out of 22, plus our kicker.

 

Four others in the top half of the league at their positions

 

Oliver

Boogie

Taron Johnson

Knox

 

Is that a good enough job by the scouting department and front office?

 

White has been hurt, I get that, but the 2022 White was not the pre November 2021 White.

 

Food for thought.

 

 

 

 

 

[CircleTheWagons99]

1 hour ago, ClemsonBills said:

THANK YOU! The defensive line rotation simply pulls money away from other positions. No other team in the NFL has a rotation like we do. The philosophy would make sense if it was backed with championships. 

or if the DL makes any impact plays during BIG games.....

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Rousseau - 65% 

Epenesa - 43%

Cook - 33%

Basham - 31%

 

I've said it before, but the d line philosophy is the worst thing about McDermott. Having to constantly invest into a ten man rotation. At the expense of the offense. It's killing this team.

 

Add in the fact that McBeane clearly suck at evaluating d line talent and we have a complete disaster on our hands. 

 

Even if the guys we drafted didn't suck a**, they wouldn't play more than 65% of snaps. What are we doing spending first and second round picks on guys that will never be close to full time players?

 

A pass catching RB in the second round?

 

New rule...if McDermott is going to insist on a rotation on defense, he shouldnt be allowed to draft one before round 4, I don't care how big the need is. 

 

Nice spin. Good teams don't have to play rookies a lot. And we are known for our D-line rotation. Your argument is specious.