TUA in Concussion Protocol Again!

[gonzo1105]

I think Tua sits this week and if they lose to the Patriots you will see him back in week 18 vs the Jets. If the Dolphins beat the Pats and lock up a playoff spot you wont see him until the Wildcard but I highly doubt they shut him down this year. Which is sad in its own right. 

[Rochesterfan]

51 minutes ago, Mango said:

This isn’t true at all. I think it largely comes from Tre taking 12 months to come back, so the fan base has turned it into some noble venture. 
 

Allen is playing with an injury to his throwing arm.

 

Poyer played a game where he wasn’t healthy enough to get on an airplane. 
 

Cole Beasley played on a broken leg.

 

Mitch Morse will likely be cleared to play at some point after his 6th NFL concussion. Not counting juniors or college.

 

Tommy Doyle played a game with a torn ACL and McD praised his toughness for doing it in the post game. 

None of those instances are player for at precautions. The Tua thing is a disaster for the NFL, the Dolphins, and McDaniels. But the Bills aren’t some holier than thou franchise when it comes to injuries. 

 

 

 

Although I agree in general we are not a lot different than other teams - I do totally disagree that this view has to do with Tre White and his recovery.

 

The truth is compared to many teams - the Bills have been overly cautious on most soft tissue injuries compared to teams around the league.  Typically any kind of strain or pull of a muscle/hamstring/quad etc. has been met with 1-2 weeks of limited practice time and typically missing at minimum of 1 game.

 

They do the same thing with ankles, knee, foot injuries - where a player might feel ok to give it a go, but they hold them out for an extra week.

 

Your examples are correct - Tommy Doyle played with a torn ACL and McDermott praised his toughness - he also stated they did not know until after the game he did that.  Tommy refused to let the team down and that is no different than many players.

 

I do not think the Bills are above playing an injured player - especially if that player has clearance and wants to play - Ala Mitch Morse and Cole Beasley. So I do not think they are some Holier Than Thou team in that regards, but I also think they are still on the cutting edge of injury evaluation and time to recovery and they work hard to make sure guys have enough time to recover when possible, but it is a balancing act.

 

I think both the Team and Gabe knew with his ankle he was coming back to soon and would be negatively impacted, but they needed WR help at the time and he could go - so they played him.  They had LB depth and have allowed Milano and Edmunds to miss games to recover to try and prevent further injury - even though their replacements led to some dismal defensive performances.

 

They have done similar things at Safety and DL with Oliver, Phillips, and Poyer all getting time off to recover as needed - even if that meant going to multiple practice squad DL.

 

So while I agree overall with the premise that the Bills are not really different from other NFL teams - I will say there are numerous examples of them giving time off beyond Tre White that shows the Bills utilize analytics and history to help guide them on injuries as much or more than other teams.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Rochesterfan

[Rock'em Sock'em]

18 hours ago, AlfaBill said:

His interceptions were not due to concussion.

According to Tua, the second of the three was due to a total miscommunication of the play call.  The the other two did not seem related to the concussion.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

6 in a career is far cry from 3 in 3 months.  I had a ton myself but over time.

No one said that one was okay and one bad. Both of these situations warrant STRONG consideration from the player and his family. 6 concussions is a big number. If he steps away he greatly limits the risk of future concussions. It is absolutely something that he and his family will be thinking about this off season. That holds especially true if the Bills win the Super Bowl.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Kirby Jackson

[Utah John]

The Dolphins are 8-7 and not playing lights out.  In fact they've lost four in a row.  They might squeeze into the playoffs, but they're not going to make it past the Big Three in the AFC, with or without him.  They should bench him and make sure he's right before the 2023 season.  And who knows maybe they still make the playoffs without Tua.  

Letting him play now is a disgusting idea, showing no concern at all for this young man, and striving only for the cash players and teams get for making the postseason.  What's that money worth when he could end up like Junior Seau, or the former WNY player Justin Strzelczyk.  

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, The Red King said:

 

I was determined to prove you wrong, so I checked the stats.  Holy crap, who stuck the rose-colored glasses on.  Stats-wise prior he was servicable at best.  Didn't change much after.

 

I'll still maintain he never looked right after the hit.  I remember one play vs. Miami where he ran out of bounds two yards short of the marker on 3rd down.  Typical of him, I know.  Except he didn't run out of bounds.  He stopped like a half yard from the sideline and just stood there.  Defender was confused, pulled up and gave him a gentle shove oob.

 

He may not have been good prior or worse after, but there was definately something wrong.

 

Maybe the "something wrong" was playing for Dick Jauron.   A lot of Bills players during his regime seemed to play just like Edwards ... so afraid of making a mistake that they made an even worse mistake.   Jauron didn't like players who cared too much about winning; he liked players who embraced his philosophy of playing not to lose by too much.   IMO, Edwards checked down the ball rather than try to make a first down  -- or my word, a TD -- because of his fear of throwing INTs ... and Jauron approved tof hat, which is why Jauron kept Edwards as his starting QB no matter how unproductive he was on the field.

 

[The Red King]

39 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Maybe the "something wrong" was playing for Dick Jauron.   A lot of Bills players during his regime seemed to play just like Edwards ... so afraid of making a mistake that they made an even worse mistake.   Jauron didn't like players who cared too much about winning; he liked players who embraced his philosophy of playing not to lose by too much.   IMO, Edwards checked down the ball rather than try to make a first down  -- or my word, a TD -- because of his fear of throwing INTs ... and Jauron approved tof hat, which is why Jauron kept Edwards as his starting QB no matter how unproductive he was on the field.

 

 

Oh, not disputing that.  And I was proven wrong about pre-concussion vs. post.  I'm not blaming any part of his performance on the concussion anymore, just to be clear.

 

That play I described just stuck out to me.  I had never seen anything like it before or after.  He just stopped short of the sideline and did nothing but stare into space.  Lucky the guy gently shoved him oob.  I honestly think he could have ripped the ball out while Edwards was oblivious.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Maybe he knows how to hide the symptoms.  Got so many of them, can he build a functional tolerance to a concussed state? Almost like a functional drunk.

[prissythecat]

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-cmo-dr-allen-sills-tua-tagovailoa-showed-nothing-that-would-have-triggered-c

[RocCityRoller]

22 hours ago, Dick_Cheney said:

Yeah, I "only" had two that I was officially aware of. That was enough for me and I didn't go past high school. I knew I wasn't ever gonna go further than that, and having those cobwebs get worse each time wasn't worth it for me.

 

That said, if I was getting paid millions upon millions of dollars, it's a different story.

 

Sorry for the verbose reply.

 

I had almost the same situation. I suffered 2 concussions in a six week span in High School and that was the end of organized football for me. My experiences in High School are not indicative of all concussions and it happened many years ago, science has evolved, money was not involved, but having lived through it I'd like to share my experience with the board.

 

First concussion - took a blow to the head, most considered it an illegal hit (helmet to helmet). Symptoms were obvious. I had trouble getting up and walking. Immediate dizziness, staggered motor coordination and mental confusion. A lot like Tua in the Bills game. From what I understand this is what the spotters are looking for in the NFL. By that definition the spotter/ neurologist/ Dolphins were negligent in the Bills game. Miami did replace those people. He clearly was staggering after that blow. I was taken out of the game and evaluated as much as a high school in the 90's could. I had to get medical clearance to practice and play again. Doctor confirmed a concussion and I had to miss 4 weeks of practice and games. Could only play again if symptoms cleared. They did in a day or two, I was cleared 2 weeks later and I was back at it after the 4 weeks elapsed.

 

Second concussion - Second game back I stretched out for an overthrown ball and the safety knocked me out cold. Violent but clean hit. He mostly hit my armpit and shoulder area with a shoulder pad hit. Some combo of the hit, my own shoulder pad hitting my helmet and the neck whip from the severity of the hit knocked me out. I was told I did not have what wold now be called a 'fencing position'. I just got knocked out cold like a boxer. I remember stretching for the pass and hearing a crack. Apparently it was the loudest hit many people had heard and people were immediately running onto the field. I came to, flat on my back, with a dozen or so people staring down at me. The odd thing with that second concussion was that it was seemingly less direct contact with my head. I felt almost no immediate symptoms, except double vision. 'Double vision' is a bit of a misleading term. For me the edges of objects were clear, but there were two edges to everything, like having two photo negatives on top of each other but spaced apart by just the smallest amount. I had none of the other symptoms I experienced from the prior concussion. I was back in in the second half. I was mentally clear. Nothing else indicated a concussion. As the game wore on my concentration started to lapse. Not unlike Tua vs Green Bay. Things got progressively worse that night. Bad headache and confusion set in. Light and sound started to give me terrible headaches the next morning. I had ringing in my ears to go with the double vision which had not cleared up. Met with my doctor that day and he told me it was another concussion, and that I should not play football anymore, at least let the season end without playing. He told me my risk of another concussion that season was very high, and my risk for more concussions in general was now higher. In the long term his would do bad damage to me, including symptoms that may not go away.

 

That was @30 years ago, but even then doctors knew once you get a concussion, it gets 'easier' to get them more frequently. Especially in a short time span. I think this is why a lot of doctors were suggesting Tua sit out the rest of the season back after the Cincy game. My criticism is for Miami to not sit Tua for the season after the Cincy game, and admit the blow in the Bills game was probably a concussion.

 

From my experience, It is possible for concussion symptoms to be delayed. They are not always immediate. My symptoms were delayed on my second concussion. For Tua it was his <probable> third.

 

Each concussion can yield worse symptoms, delayed or immediate.

 

Football is a tough violent sport. But IMO being 'tough' does not mean repeatedly putting yourself, or allowing a player with a series of concussions, to put themselves at risk for long term neurological damage. I know comparing my experience to a pro is silly in a lot of ways. On the other hand I hope sharing my experience helped answer some questions about concussions for those who have never had them, much less in rapid succession.

 

I really wish the Bills would have moved on from Morse two years ago. I have been pretty vocal about this. I like Morse the player, he has been very good for the Bills on and off the field, but I worry about his long term quality of life. Other options have been there in the draft and FA, and even on our own roster as a Plan B (Feliciano/ Bates). I have to think Morse's concussion history is why KC made him available in the first place. KC did not want to enable him anymore. That says a lot for an org that has made some very questionable player decisions in the recent past.

 

I give Tua credit for being forward about his symptoms after the game. I know personally that they can be delayed and get worse. Some of the reactions on social media have been ignorant and outright ugly. It is clear as day to anyone who has had a concussion history, or is familiar with those injuries that Tua has had three concussions this season. They are happening in rapid succession, from less and less violent impact, and reading between the lines the symptoms are becoming delayed and worse.

 

As much as I criticize the Dolphins for the handling of Tua, my own experiences and those of Morse make it a bit of a 'glass house' argument to be throwing stones from. There is a level of freedom and independence I have to agree with and want all people to have, including Tua and Morse. But there is also a social responsibility to provide honest feedback, information and intervention to stop enabling self destructive behavior. I do think Tua should sit the rest of the season and take some time to evaluate where he is, and understand that he is now at much higher risk for more concussions and long term damage. I would be a hypocrite if I did not point out that OBD and Morse should do the same.

Edited December 27, 2022 by RocCityRoller

[Nextmanup]

6 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I don't think they are "holier than thou" but they do tend to be extra precautious when it comes to players injuries.

McDermott is an incredibly conservative/traditional person by nature, and that goes far beyond his status as a football coach.  For that reason, I totally agree that he/we are extra cautious with injury.

 

He's just extremely risk averse by nature.  There are many people out there like him.

 

 

 

 

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

McDermott is an incredibly conservative/traditional person by nature, and that goes far beyond his status as a football coach.  For that reason, I totally agree that he/we are extra cautious with injury.

 

He's just extremely risk averse by nature.  There are many people out there like him.

 

 

 

 

I'm one of those people. I make sure I don't leave my house unless I absolutely have to just to avoid the chance of running into someone I know and having to talk to them.

[Dick_Cheney]

22 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Sorry for the verbose reply.

 

I had almost the same situation. I suffered 2 concussions in a six week span in High School and that was the end of organized football for me. My experiences in High School are not indicative of all concussions and it happened many years ago, science has evolved, money was not involved, but having lived through it I'd like to share my experience with the board.

 

First concussion - took a blow to the head, most considered it an illegal hit (helmet to helmet). Symptoms were obvious. I had trouble getting up and walking. Immediate dizziness, staggered motor coordination and mental confusion. A lot like Tua in the Bills game. From what I understand this is what the spotters are looking for in the NFL. By that definition the spotter/ neurologist/ Dolphins were negligent in the Bills game. Miami did replace those people. He clearly was staggering after that blow. I was taken out of the game and evaluated as much as a high school in the 90's could. I had to get medical clearance to practice and play again. Doctor confirmed a concussion and I had to miss 4 weeks of practice and games. Could only play again if symptoms cleared. They did in a day or two, I was cleared 2 weeks later and I was back at it after the 4 weeks elapsed.

 

Second concussion - Second game back I stretched out for an overthrown ball and the safety knocked me out cold. Violent but clean hit. He mostly hit my armpit and shoulder area with a shoulder pad hit. Some combo of the hit, my own shoulder pad hitting my helmet and the neck whip from the severity of the hit knocked me out. I was told I did not have what wold now be called a 'fencing position'. I just got knocked out cold like a boxer. I remember stretching for the pass and hearing a crack. Apparently it was the loudest hit many people had heard and people were immediately running onto the field. I came to, flat on my back, with a dozen or so people staring down at me. The odd thing with that second concussion was that it was seemingly less direct contact with my head. I felt almost no immediate symptoms, except double vision. 'Double vision' is a bit of a misleading term. For me the edges of objects were clear, but there were two edges to everything, like having two photo negatives on top of each other but spaced apart by just the smallest amount. I had none of the other symptoms I experienced from the prior concussion. I was back in in the second half. I was mentally clear. Nothing else indicated a concussion. As the game wore on my concentration started to lapse. Not unlike Tua vs Green Bay. Things got progressively worse that night. Bad headache and confusion set in. Light and sound started to give me terrible headaches the next morning. I had ringing in my ears to go with the double vision which had not cleared up. Met with my doctor that day and he told me it was another concussion, and that I should not play football anymore, at least let the season end without playing. He told me my risk of another concussion that season was very high, and my risk for more concussions in general was now higher. In the long term his would do bad damage to me, including symptoms that may not go away.

 

That was @30 years ago, but even then doctors knew once you get a concussion, it gets 'easier' to get them more frequently. Especially in a short time span. I think this is why a lot of doctors were suggesting Tua sit out the rest of the season back after the Cincy game. My criticism is for Miami to not sit Tua for the season after the Cincy game, and admit the blow in the Bills game was probably a concussion.

 

From my experience, It is possible for concussion symptoms to be delayed. They are not always immediate. My symptoms were delayed on my second concussion. For Tua it was his <probable> third.

 

Each concussion can yield worse symptoms, delayed or immediate.

 

Football is a tough violent sport. But IMO being 'tough' does not mean repeatedly putting yourself, or allowing a player with a series of concussions, to put themselves at risk for long term neurological damage. I know comparing my experience to a pro is silly in a lot of ways. On the other hand I hope sharing my experience helped answer some questions about concussions for those who have never had them.

 

I really wish the Bills would have moved on from Morse two years ago. I have been pretty vocal about this. I like Morse the player, he has been very good for the Bills on and off the field, but I worry about his long term quality of life. Other options have been there in the draft and FA, and even on our own roster as a Plan B (Feliciano/ Bates). I have to think Morse's concussion history is why KC made him available in the first place. KC did not want to enable him anymore. That says a lot for an org that has made some very questionable player decisions in the recent past.

 

I give Tua credit for being forward about his symptoms after the game. I know personally that they can be delayed and get worse. Some of the reactions on social media have been ignorant and outright ugly. It is clear as day to anyone who has had a concussion history, or is familiar with those injuries that Tua has had three concussions this season. They are happening in rapid succession, from less and less violent impact, and reading between the lines the symptoms are becoming delayed and worse.

 

As much as I criticize the Dolphins for the handling of Tua, my own experiences and those of Morse make it a bit of a 'glass house' argument to be throwing stones from. There is a level of freedom and independence I have to agree with and want all people to have, including Tua and Morse. But there is also a social responsibility to provide honest feedback, information and intervention to stop enabling self destructive behavior. I do think Tua should sit the rest of the season and take some time to evaluate where he is, and understand that he is now at much higher risk for more concussions and long term damage. I would be a hypocrite if I did not point out that OBD and Morse should do the same.

 

Really fantastic post.

[Mr Info]

14 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I'm one of those people. I make sure I don't leave my house unless I absolutely have to just to avoid the chance of running into someone I know and having to talk to them.

You appear to be more of a loner than ‘risk averse’ but I am not a shrink.

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

 

Oh, not disputing that.  And I was proven wrong about pre-concussion vs. post.  I'm not blaming any part of his performance on the concussion anymore, just to be clear.

 

That play I described just stuck out to me.  I had never seen anything like it before or after.  He just stopped short of the sideline and did nothing but stare into space.  Lucky the guy gently shoved him oob.  I honestly think he could have ripped the ball out while Edwards was oblivious.

 

Edwards got hit a lot because the Bills had a very crappy OL and he wasn't particularly mobile.   It may be that the accumulation of hits that he took all over his body, not just a particular one that caused a concussion, made him gun-shy.

[The Wiz]

6 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

You appear to be more of a loner than ‘risk averse’ but I am not a shrink.

I don't let people borrow anything.  I'm afraid of not getting it back. 🤪

[nosejob]

6 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I think Tua sits this week and if they lose to the Patriots you will see him back in week 18 vs the Jets. If the Dolphins beat the Pats and lock up a playoff spot you wont see him until the Wildcard but I highly doubt they shut him down this year. Which is sad in its own right. 

Whether or not he plays, they are still gonna lose to the Pats. If he clears and plays, that's not a good look for the staff in Miami. All the media I've seen (ESPN) crew say it's irresponsible for his future. I get it, he wants that contract money, but if he goes out with another his worth (and his leverage), is cut in half.

 

Look at it this way, if they get one more win, they're likely in anyway. I would hold him out this week and gamble on the win against NY.

Edited December 27, 2022 by nosejob

[Seventeen]

29 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Sorry for the verbose reply.

 

I had almost the same situation. I suffered 2 concussions in a six week span in High School and that was the end of organized football for me. My experiences in High School are not indicative of all concussions and it happened many years ago, science has evolved, money was not involved, but having lived through it I'd like to share my experience with the board.

 

First concussion - took a blow to the head, most considered it an illegal hit (helmet to helmet). Symptoms were obvious. I had trouble getting up and walking. Immediate dizziness, staggered motor coordination and mental confusion. A lot like Tua in the Bills game. From what I understand this is what the spotters are looking for in the NFL. By that definition the spotter/ neurologist/ Dolphins were negligent in the Bills game. Miami did replace those people. He clearly was staggering after that blow. I was taken out of the game and evaluated as much as a high school in the 90's could. I had to get medical clearance to practice and play again. Doctor confirmed a concussion and I had to miss 4 weeks of practice and games. Could only play again if symptoms cleared. They did in a day or two, I was cleared 2 weeks later and I was back at it after the 4 weeks elapsed.

 

Second concussion - Second game back I stretched out for an overthrown ball and the safety knocked me out cold. Violent but clean hit. He mostly hit my armpit and shoulder area with a shoulder pad hit. Some combo of the hit, my own shoulder pad hitting my helmet and the neck whip from the severity of the hit knocked me out. I was told I did not have what wold now be called a 'fencing position'. I just got knocked out cold like a boxer. I remember stretching for the pass and hearing a crack. Apparently it was the loudest hit many people had heard and people were immediately running onto the field. I came to, flat on my back, with a dozen or so people staring down at me. The odd thing with that second concussion was that it was seemingly less direct contact with my head. I felt almost no immediate symptoms, except double vision. 'Double vision' is a bit of a misleading term. For me the edges of objects were clear, but there were two edges to everything, like having two photo negatives on top of each other but spaced apart by just the smallest amount. I had none of the other symptoms I experienced from the prior concussion. I was back in in the second half. I was mentally clear. Nothing else indicated a concussion. As the game wore on my concentration started to lapse. Not unlike Tua vs Green Bay. Things got progressively worse that night. Bad headache and confusion set in. Light and sound started to give me terrible headaches the next morning. I had ringing in my ears to go with the double vision which had not cleared up. Met with my doctor that day and he told me it was another concussion, and that I should not play football anymore, at least let the season end without playing. He told me my risk of another concussion that season was very high, and my risk for more concussions in general was now higher. In the long term his would do bad damage to me, including symptoms that may not go away.

 

That was @30 years ago, but even then doctors knew once you get a concussion, it gets 'easier' to get them more frequently. Especially in a short time span. I think this is why a lot of doctors were suggesting Tua sit out the rest of the season back after the Cincy game. My criticism is for Miami to not sit Tua for the season after the Cincy game, and admit the blow in the Bills game was probably a concussion.

 

From my experience, It is possible for concussion symptoms to be delayed. They are not always immediate. My symptoms were delayed on my second concussion. For Tua it was his <probable> third.

 

Each concussion can yield worse symptoms, delayed or immediate.

 

Football is a tough violent sport. But IMO being 'tough' does not mean repeatedly putting yourself, or allowing a player with a series of concussions, to put themselves at risk for long term neurological damage. I know comparing my experience to a pro is silly in a lot of ways. On the other hand I hope sharing my experience helped answer some questions about concussions for those who have never had them.

 

I really wish the Bills would have moved on from Morse two years ago. I have been pretty vocal about this. I like Morse the player, he has been very good for the Bills on and off the field, but I worry about his long term quality of life. Other options have been there in the draft and FA, and even on our own roster as a Plan B (Feliciano/ Bates). I have to think Morse's concussion history is why KC made him available in the first place. KC did not want to enable him anymore. That says a lot for an org that has made some very questionable player decisions in the recent past.

 

I give Tua credit for being forward about his symptoms after the game. I know personally that they can be delayed and get worse. Some of the reactions on social media have been ignorant and outright ugly. It is clear as day to anyone who has had a concussion history, or is familiar with those injuries that Tua has had three concussions this season. They are happening in rapid succession, from less and less violent impact, and reading between the lines the symptoms are becoming delayed and worse.

 

As much as I criticize the Dolphins for the handling of Tua, my own experiences and those of Morse make it a bit of a 'glass house' argument to be throwing stones from. There is a level of freedom and independence I have to agree with and want all people to have, including Tua and Morse. But there is also a social responsibility to provide honest feedback, information and intervention to stop enabling self destructive behavior. I do think Tua should sit the rest of the season and take some time to evaluate where he is, and understand that he is now at much higher risk for more concussions and long term damage. I would be a hypocrite if I did not point out that OBD and Morse should do the same.

 

Tua comes off as an intelligent guy - after 3 concussions (that we know of), I would hope he would speak to those who have been down this road in the NFL and other sports to see what life after football might hold. No amount of $ is worth permanent damage to the brain and I'm sure he knows that. It's the competitor in him that will wake up one day, feel pretty good, and want to get back at it and the docs just might let him. Then #4 comes and maybe #5 ...

 

Hang it up Tua while you can - don't end like Kuechly, Chris Pronger or worse, Steve Montador.

 

 

[Rico]

7 hours ago, Mango said:

Clearly that’s the case. And the Tua situation is obviously serious. 
 

But our staff isn’t any more careful than the other 30 teams (excluding Miami) in the league when it comes to injury management. It’s just a homer thing we keep saying because of Tre in the wake of Tua. 
 

I would like to believe this specific situation doesn’t happen in Buffalo. But from a general injury perspective our coaching staff isn’t special. 
 

EDIT: I’m not comparing apples to grapefruits. I highlighted a post that said our coaching staff was cautious regarding injury. A statement I keep seeing posted, which is a knee jerk to how long it took Tre to come back. But at scale really isn’t true. 

If the Bills appear to be more careful about injury management, I think it's because they are playing the long game & want to be as close to 100% in the post-season as possible.

[nosejob]

25 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Tua comes off as an intelligent guy - after 3 concussions (that we know of), I would hope he would speak to those who have been down this road in the NFL and other sports to see what life after football might hold. No amount of $ is worth permanent damage to the brain and I'm sure he knows that. It's the competitor in him that will wake up one day, feel pretty good, and want to get back at it and the docs just might let him. Then #4 comes and maybe #5 ...

 

Hang it up Tua while you can - don't end like Kuechly, Chris Pronger or worse, Steve Montador.

 

 

 All he needs is a contract worth a couple of years and at least 20 mil. guaranteed. He's gotta be smart enough to somehow finish out this year without getting hurt. A lingering concussion issue will kill that. A lot of us have had back breaking jobs and worked through pain to bring home a check only to have that haunt us years later....or surgeries forcing a change of careers. I just don't think he'll have that wisdom until it's too late....and unfortunately, the bosses never care. He can be replaced. Just win baby. Get the job done to save the bosses ass.

[transient]

41 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I don't let people borrow anything.  I'm afraid of not getting it back. 🤪

Ummmm... that would be a "loaner". For the record, I'm banking on a witty reply. 

[Seventeen]

4 minutes ago, nosejob said:

 All he needs is a contract worth a couple of years and at least 20 mil. guaranteed. He's gotta be smart enough to somehow finish out this year without getting hurt. A lingering concussion issue will kill that. A lot of us have had back breaking jobs and worked through pain to bring home a check only to have that haunt us years later....or surgeries forcing a change of careers. I just don't think he'll have that wisdom until it's too late....and unfortunately, the bosses never care. He can be replaced. Just win baby. Get the job done to save the bosses ass.

 

Tua's rookie deal guaranteed him $30mil - even if he only kept half of it after taxes and agent cut, he should be set. And as someone else said, he might be a good fit in the one of the broadcasting booths. 

[nosejob]

22 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Tua's rookie deal guaranteed him $30mil - even if he only kept half of it after taxes and agent cut, he should be set. And as someone else said, he might be a good fit in the one of the broadcasting booths. 

I was not aware of the numbers.... so screw him.

[The Wiz]

25 minutes ago, transient said:

Ummmm... that would be a "loaner". For the record, I'm banking on a witty reply. 

Have you seen the rates recently???  How can I afford a witty reply?

[RocCityRoller]

26 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Tua comes off as an intelligent guy - after 3 concussions (that we know of), I would hope he would speak to those who have been down this road in the NFL and other sports to see what life after football might hold. No amount of $ is worth permanent damage to the brain and I'm sure he knows that. It's the competitor in him that will wake up one day, feel pretty good, and want to get back at it and the docs just might let him. Then #4 comes and maybe #5 ...

 

Hang it up Tua while you can - don't end like Kuechly, Chris Pronger or worse, Steve Montador.

 

I have to agree. And by doing so I think we really need to look skeptically about the Bills handling of Morse too.

 

Morse had 3 concussions in 4 years with KC. 2 in a short span in his rookie year (2015). He should have missed more time after his first IMO.

2015 - week 11 - missed 1 game - cleared protocol to play in week 13

2015 - week 17 - missed playoffs

two in 5-6 weeks - sounds familiar. Had time to rest and recuperate.

 

2018 - week 6 - 5 weeks to return (duration getting longer)

KC declined 5th year option. Signs with Bills. It had been 3 years between concussions.

But the guy did have 3 in 3 years before ever putting on the red, white and blue.

He has had 3 more since in a Buffalo uniform.

 

2019 - Training camp - less than a year from last concussion, missed entire offseason and TC.

2020 - November vs Pats - missed 2 games

 

2021 Draft - Bills could draft Humphrey at #61, draft Boogie Basham instead. KC drafts Humphrey (replaces Morse) at #63. Humphrey to Pro Bowl as a rookie.

2022 Draft - Bills could draft Linderbaum at #23. draft Kaiir Elam instead. Baltimore drafts Linderbaum at #25 (started 15 of 15 games so far),

 

2022 - December vs Miami - 6th concussion, not even a violent hit. Missed # games?

 

It's clear as day Morse is going to have more problems with concussions. How many is enough?

 

TSW like knocking Miami for its handling of Tua. Ironic given Morse.

[Seventeen]

9 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

2022 - December vs Miami - 6th concussion, not even a violent hit. Missed # games?

 

It's clear as day Morse is going to have more problems with concussions. How many is enough?

 

After 6, Mitch should retire - he's made $50mil, has two young ones at home - not worth the added risk.

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

I have to agree. And by doing so I think we really need to look skeptically about the Bills handling of Morse too.

 

Morse had 3 concussions in 4 years with KC. 2 in a short span in his rookie year (2015). He should have missed more time after his first IMO.

2015 - week 11 - missed 1 game - cleared protocol to play in week 13

2015 - week 17 - missed playoffs

two in 5-6 weeks - sounds familiar. Had time to rest and recuperate.

 

2021 Draft - Bills could draft Humphrey at #61, draft Boogie Basham instead. KC drafts Humphrey (replaces Morse) at #63. Humphrey to Pro Bowl as a rookie.

 

2022 - December vs Miami - 6th concussion, not even a violent hit. Missed # games?

 

It's clear as day Morse is going to have more problems with concussions. How many is enough?

 

TSW like knocking Miami for its handling of Tua. Ironic given Morse.

Your point about Basham has been my chief complaint for this FO. Missing on top picks then having to re-draft them again has been a problem. 

[gonzo1105]

1 hour ago, nosejob said:

Whether or not he plays, they are still gonna lose to the Pats. If he clears and plays, that's not a good look for the staff in Miami. All the media I've seen (ESPN) crew say it's irresponsible for his future. I get it, he wants that contract money, but if he goes out with another his worth (and his leverage), is cut in half.

 

Look at it this way, if they get one more win, they're likely in anyway. I would hold him out this week and gamble on the win against NY.

yea that’s exactly what I said re-read my comment lol. He sits this week if they lose he’ll be back in next week. If they win this week he sits until the wildcard 

[TBBills Fan]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Edwards got hit a lot because the Bills had a very crappy OL and he wasn't particularly mobile.   It may be that the accumulation of hits that he took all over his body, not just a particular one that caused a concussion, made him gun-shy.

The kids call it seeing ghosts now a days

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

I have to agree. And by doing so I think we really need to look skeptically about the Bills handling of Morse too.

 

Morse had 3 concussions in 4 years with KC. 2 in a short span in his rookie year (2015). He should have missed more time after his first IMO.

2015 - week 11 - missed 1 game - cleared protocol to play in week 13

2015 - week 17 - missed playoffs

two in 5-6 weeks - sounds familiar. Had time to rest and recuperate.

 

2018 - week 6 - 5 weeks to return (duration getting longer)

KC declined 5th year option. Signs with Bills. It had been 3 years between concussions.

But the guy did have 3 in 3 years before ever putting on the red, white and blue.

He has had 3 more since in a Buffalo uniform.

 

2019 - Training camp - less than a year from last concussion, missed entire offseason and TC.

2020 - November vs Pats - missed 2 games

 

2021 Draft - Bills could draft Humphrey at #61, draft Boogie Basham instead. KC drafts Humphrey (replaces Morse) at #63. Humphrey to Pro Bowl as a rookie.

2022 Draft - Bills could draft Linderbaum at #23. draft Kaiir Elam instead. Baltimore drafts Linderbaum at #25 (started 15 of 15 games so far),

 

2022 - December vs Miami - 6th concussion, not even a violent hit. Missed # games?

 

It's clear as day Morse is going to have more problems with concussions. How many is enough?

 

TSW like knocking Miami for its handling of Tua. Ironic given Morse.

You’re totally not understanding what people are upset at Miami about in their handling of Tua’s concussion.

 

They blatantly ignored the fact he was concussed against Buffalo and allowed him to play the 2nd half.
 

Then he went out on the field 4 days later and got another concussion with a pretty gnarly response that was seen on live TV. 
 

If you can show me where the Bills did that with Morse (leave out the random fluff about Humphrey and Linderbaum) and you’ll have a serious argument.

[purple haze]

On 12/26/2022 at 2:19 PM, atlbillsfan1975 said:

If it did occur in the first half and he played the second half, shame on Miami and McDaniel. McDaniel is proving he is in over his head. 

It’s the spotters who are supposed to see these things and pull players out not the coach.  The spotters were supposed to be an independent eye to get around coaches and players not responding to potential concussions.  

[RocCityRoller]

5 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

You’re totally not understanding what people are upset at Miami about in their handling of Tua’s concussion.

 

They blatantly ignored the fact he was concussed against Buffalo and allowed him to play the 2nd half.
 

Then he went out on the field 4 days later and got another concussion with a pretty gnarly response that was seen on live TV. 
 

If you can show me where the Bills did that with Morse (leave out the random fluff about Humphrey and Linderbaum) and you’ll have a serious argument.

This is the second part of a two part conversation I was having. The person I was replying to and I were having a conversation about our personal experiences with concussions and I made some comparisons with Tua. The thread you replied about Morse is a continuation of that first post. If you go back and read the first reply it will make more sense. Most everything you mentioned about Tua was covered in an earlier post midway through page 13 of this thread, and we agree.

Edited December 28, 2022 by RocCityRoller

[Rochesterfan]

7 hours ago, purple haze said:

It’s the spotters who are supposed to see these things and pull players out not the coach.  The spotters were supposed to be an independent eye to get around coaches and players not responding to potential concussions.  

 

The spotters are looking for signs - after hitting his head - Did he stumble, Did he reach up and grab his head, Did he Fence, Did he walk toward the wrong huddle, Did he shake his head as if cobwebs, etc.

 

Since Tua did none of those things - the spotters had absolutely no reason to pull the player.

 

After that - it is 100% on the coaches, teammates, and the player to say something if a player seems off during interactions, huddle, halftime, etc.

 

In this case we have no idea how those interactions went and if he showed any signs, but it was a bit worrisome that in his post game press conference he was having issues talking through a few interceptions and what went wrong.  If there were signs during the game Miami should be in trouble for ignoring them, but based upon everything being said there were no signs.

 

Tua then it sounded like self reported signs the next day - maybe parts of the game were fuzzy, maybe he was having headaches, maybe he was having light sensitivity, etc.  Once reported - per protocol - the Dolphins entered him into concussion protocol and now he will have to clear.

 

In this case - it does not appear the spotters or the NFL did anything wrong.  We do not know what the Dolphins saw in interactions, but it was before halftime so the boy genius Head Coach spent a bunch of time with him so the only potential miss lies with the Dolphins team.

 

 

[DJB]

13 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I don't let people borrow anything.  I'm afraid of not getting it back. 🤪

I let that one guy borrow my wife , never got her back so I see your point 

[atlbillsfan1975]

19 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

I have to agree. And by doing so I think we really need to look skeptically about the Bills handling of Morse too.

 

Morse had 3 concussions in 4 years with KC. 2 in a short span in his rookie year (2015). He should have missed more time after his first IMO.

2015 - week 11 - missed 1 game - cleared protocol to play in week 13

2015 - week 17 - missed playoffs

two in 5-6 weeks - sounds familiar. Had time to rest and recuperate.

 

2018 - week 6 - 5 weeks to return (duration getting longer)

KC declined 5th year option. Signs with Bills. It had been 3 years between concussions.

But the guy did have 3 in 3 years before ever putting on the red, white and blue.

He has had 3 more since in a Buffalo uniform.

 

2019 - Training camp - less than a year from last concussion, missed entire offseason and TC.

2020 - November vs Pats - missed 2 games

 

2021 Draft - Bills could draft Humphrey at #61, draft Boogie Basham instead. KC drafts Humphrey (replaces Morse) at #63. Humphrey to Pro Bowl as a rookie.

2022 Draft - Bills could draft Linderbaum at #23. draft Kaiir Elam instead. Baltimore drafts Linderbaum at #25 (started 15 of 15 games so far),

 

2022 - December vs Miami - 6th concussion, not even a violent hit. Missed # games?

 

It's clear as day Morse is going to have more problems with concussions. How many is enough?

 

TSW like knocking Miami for its handling of Tua. Ironic given Morse.

I have to push back on you saying it is ironic how posters here are critical of the way Miami has been handling Tua’s concussions. In fact, go use your timeline of how Morse’s concussions have been handled. He never played in the next game or later in the same game. A person’s health is first and foremost the most important thing. Miami seems to take a “don’t ask/don’t tell approach” when it comes to concussions and their starting QB.

Edited December 28, 2022 by atlbillsfan1975

[Meatloaf63]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

I let that one guy borrow my wife , never got her back so I see your point 

Been there done that🤦‍♂️

[Sestak4ever]

3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The spotters are looking for signs - after hitting his head - Did he stumble, Did he reach up and grab his head, Did he Fence, Did he walk toward the wrong huddle, Did he shake his head as if cobwebs, etc.

 

Since Tua did none of those things - the spotters had absolutely no reason to pull the player.

 

After that - it is 100% on the coaches, teammates, and the player to say something if a player seems off during interactions, huddle, halftime, etc.

 

In this case we have no idea how those interactions went and if he showed any signs, but it was a bit worrisome that in his post game press conference he was having issues talking through a few interceptions and what went wrong.  If there were signs during the game Miami should be in trouble for ignoring them, but based upon everything being said there were no signs.

 

Tua then it sounded like self reported signs the next day - maybe parts of the game were fuzzy, maybe he was having headaches, maybe he was having light sensitivity, etc.  Once reported - per protocol - the Dolphins entered him into concussion protocol and now he will have to clear.

 

In this case - it does not appear the spotters or the NFL did anything wrong.  We do not know what the Dolphins saw in interactions, but it was before halftime so the boy genius Head Coach spent a bunch of time with him so the only potential miss lies with the Dolphins team.

 

 

Whether he shows signs or not, knowing his recent history the proper thing to do was evaluate him after they witnessed his head slamming off the field. 

[Big Blitz]

Never had any doubt he wasn’t playing Sunday - EDIT I take that back lol

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Big Blitz

[HappyDays]

This isn't exactly the story we got before, is it?

[PrimeTime101]

There is a fan that does a podcast. TD Phins Talk

In this video he proves that he was not feeling the effects of a concussion during the game based on game play. Their fanbase does NOT think he is faking it, BUT they do believe he did not feel the effects till after the game. Also note. IT was not just after the game he told his coaches something was wrong with his head. it was later that night.

 

 

All this being said, I think Tua is a good dude and I think 3 in 3 months... he should retire.

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

This isn't exactly the story we got before, is it?

The part they missing is... Tua went to the teams Doctors... not the other way around.