Would Cole Beasley come back to Buffalo?

[Beck Water]

11 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I'm using 4 catches on 5 targets as a statistic woefully short of making any factual assumptions. Remember, you stated this: "and looked completely done as a receiver in his limited time with Tampa. It's over. He isn't welcome back here." 

 

It is a small sample, but I think it's significant that when he signed, it was "Tampa signed to the PS with the intention of moving him to the active roster".

 

After 2 weeks of observing him in practice and recording his GPS output and 2 games, Tampa chose to return him to the practice squad after his 2nd game, and Beasley chose to retire and go home instead of learning the offense and competing for another shot at the roster.  He took what most people interpreted as a public shot at the personal troubles of a HOF QB on his way out the door instead of the usual "Thank you to Tampa Bay for the opportunity.  I've reached the difficult decision that it's time for me to retire"

 

4 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Interesting catch. Could he be saying "put it on tape" meaning so he gets more playing time this year, though, as if he's still fighting for snaps this year?

 

He could indeed.  McKenzie has been getting snaps, though - 55% on the season.  What he's not been getting is targets.  Then the question is "why"?

Edited December 1, 2022 by Beck Water

[Nuncha]

14 hours ago, Dick_Cheney said:

Hell yes. 

Next, let’s bring back Incognito and Stevie Johnson. Let’s go all out. 

Hell how about LeSean McCoy in this offense, or Fred Jackson?

[Dick_Cheney]

11 minutes ago, Nuncha said:

Hell how about LeSean McCoy in this offense, or Fred Jackson?

Man if we had Shady on this team in any condition even close to his prime, I genuinely believe we would win the SB, and would have last year as well.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Been saying for weeks we should try it. That’s the guy we are “missing” on the offense. He didn’t forget how to play. If we think John Brown still has something, at least Beasley played in games THIS season. Absolutely yet him out.

[Thurman#1]

The Bills don't appear to want him back. Who cares what he wants.

 

He isn't what he was. For several years he was excellent at handling both zone and man. Then his ability to handle man took a massive dip. It's not a mistake that his yards per reception took a massive drop, and was even lower in Tampa, though sample size makes his Tampa work statistically insignificant.

 

That's even before getting into his constant willingness to be a distraction and to break team rules.

 

 

[K-9]

Not a chance after last season. That bridge was blown up never to be rebuilt. 

[Nephilim17]

32 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

He could indeed.  McKenzie has been getting snaps, though - 55% on the season.  What he's not been getting is targets.  Then the question is "why"?

Considering Beasley had 82 receptions two years in a row and "the face of the franchise" is on track for 46, I'd say the answer is one of two things:
1. Dorsey doesn't know how to draw up plays that get the slot receiver consistently open.
2. Josh doesn't trust McKenzie or see him get open enough because of his route running.

For me number 2 is is far more likely to be true. McKenzie is a faster player than Beasley so I have to assume it's route running and game smarts. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

John Brown is desperate. 
 

Cole Beasley is desperate. 
 

Beckham would be a legitimate player. 

[Airseven]

Beasley retired because he’s broken down.

[Billz4ever]

1 hour ago, Nuncha said:

Hell how about LeSean McCoy in this offense, or Fred Jackson?

I even heard Beast Mode was open to coming back to the Bills.

[Greg S]

I think you have a better chance of the Bills signing Jerry Butler and Frank Lewis than you do Beasley at this point.

[Beck Water]

35 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

Considering Beasley had 82 receptions two years in a row and "the face of the franchise" is on track for 46, I'd say the answer is one of two things:
1. Dorsey doesn't know how to draw up plays that get the slot receiver consistently open.
2. Josh doesn't trust McKenzie or see him get open enough because of his route running.

For me number 2 is is far more likely to be true. McKenzie is a faster player than Beasley so I have to assume it's route running and game smarts. 

 

I think there's something to McKenzie lost some of Josh's trust.  I also think there's something to be said for McKenzie not being open by design (differs from not being designed open)

 

For example, on the play where McKenzie scored a TD, Diggs essentially ran a clear-out route where he attracted the attention of 2 defenders.  McKenzie then fairly easily outran his one guy.  In previous weeks, I've seen McKenzie being that guy who always ran the clear-out route for Diggs or Davis - but it's also stopped working because defenders are saying "Oh Ho Ho I'm not biting, you aren't throwing to that shrimp, Diggs is your guy".   I've also seen times when Gabe Davis seemed likely to have drawn the a clear-out route and Davis (I think, JT O'Sullivan agrees FWIW) didn't run the correct route, thus not clearing it for McKenzie, I think I saw one with another guy - Cook maybe? spacing was goofy and I think Cook's route was wrong.

 

So vs. Detroit, they switched it around and McKenzie got his shot with Diggs attracting the double-team and clearing the route for him.

 

His route running isn't Beasley or Diggs level but it's better now than you might think.  He improved a lot starting in 2020 when Diggs arrived.  It's his catching ability that's eyebrow-twitching, especially when the ball comes right at his numbers.  If it's over his head or in front of him he seems to catch nicely.

 

I also think there's something in the "Dorsey doesn't draw up plays...." theory, not that Dorsey doesn't know how to draw up plays for a slot, but Dorsey sees the slot role as divided between a receiver and RB and TE. Cover1 said (and this is something I've seen) we don't seem to have that many plays with intermediate routes, it's either deep or dump off.  I see McKenzie in the flat a lot with Josh looking downfield.

 

You gotta remember that Dorsey was handed our DB coach John Butler as his "passing game coordinator", so that's an extra dose of uncertainty in terms of who is doing what with different aspects of the offensive play design and philosophy.

 

JMO

 

 

1 hour ago, Dick_Cheney said:

Man if we had Shady on this team in any condition even close to his prime, I genuinely believe we would win the SB, and would have last year as well.

 

Shady McCoy was always an RB who needed decent blocking to get him to the 2nd level.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Beasley under Daboll could be very different than Beasley under Dorsey.

 

If McKenzie and Shakir can't get open as slots in Dorseys offense, then how would the slow Beasley get open ?

 

Finally, someone gets it!  Yes! 

 

It's not just me - the Cover1 crew has been saying for weeks "same terminology, but only about 20-30% of the offense has carried over".

 

You simply can't say "plug Beasely into Dorsey's offense and his results would be the same as last year"

It's not the same offense.

[BullBuchanan]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't believe I'm exaggerating your meaning.  I think I understand it very well.  I just disagree with you, to the point where I think you have a very bad take.

 

I think Beasley was very very good, maybe elite, slot at his peak and he showed it in Buffalo.  "Eclipsing 1000 yds" is not a good metric for a guy who plays almost every snap from the slot.  Guys who grab more yards from the slot are usually guys who play elsewhere 40% of their snaps.

 

I didn't like his public behavior last year, I don't agree with his public stance on a number of issues, but I say "Give the Man his Propers" as a player.  He was a Baller, and in the 2019-2020 window with the Bills, he was in fact a very very good if not elite slot.  Characterizing him as "catch the ball and fall down" is just wrong.  In 2019-2020, ~40% of his yards came after the catch.  In 2020 he was responsible for more than 20% of the team's passing 1D.

 

I don't have the Beasley nostalgia of others. People aren't considering that while it's using the same terminology, 70-80% of the offense is new.  I don't think Dorsey doesn't see the slot position the same way Daboll did, and if 2020 Beasley walked in the door there's no guarantee that he'd be used in the same way that made him so productive in Daboll's offense. 

 

But give the man his propers; at his peak here he was very very good, and saying he wasn't is just a bad take.  Period.

Which ranked him 42nd in the league in BOTH total YAC and first downs. in 2020 he was 33 and 16th respectively. Those two solid, but unspectacular years that marked his peak as a player.

At that peak he was a "solid" b+ tier player. At no point did he ever approach anything close to elite except in the minds of Bills fans. He had less production than Stevie Johnson did across all metrics.

[Buffalo716]

50 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think there's something to McKenzie lost some of Josh's trust.  I also think there's something to be said for McKenzie not being open by design (differs from not being designed open)

 

For example, on the play where McKenzie scored a TD, Diggs essentially ran a clear-out route where he attracted the attention of 2 defenders.  McKenzie then fairly easily outran his one guy.  In previous weeks, I've seen McKenzie being that guy who always ran the clear-out route for Diggs or Davis - but it's also stopped working because defenders are saying "Oh Ho Ho I'm not biting, you aren't throwing to that shrimp, Diggs is your guy".   I've also seen times when Gabe Davis seemed likely to have drawn the a clear-out route and Davis (I think, JT O'Sullivan agrees FWIW) didn't run the correct route, thus not clearing it for McKenzie, I think I saw one with another guy - Cook maybe? spacing was goofy and I think Cook's route was wrong.

 

So vs. Detroit, they switched it around and McKenzie got his shot with Diggs attracting the double-team and clearing the route for him.

 

His route running isn't Beasley or Diggs level but it's better now than you might think.  He improved a lot starting in 2020 when Diggs arrived.  It's his catching ability that's eyebrow-twitching, especially when the ball comes right at his numbers.  If it's over his head or in front of him he seems to catch nicely.

 

I also think there's something in the "Dorsey doesn't draw up plays...." theory, not that Dorsey doesn't know how to draw up plays for a slot, but Dorsey sees the slot role as divided between a receiver and RB and TE. Cover1 said (and this is something I've seen) we don't seem to have that many plays with intermediate routes, it's either deep or dump off.  I see McKenzie in the flat a lot with Josh looking downfield.

 

You gotta remember that Dorsey was handed our DB coach John Butler as his "passing game coordinator", so that's an extra dose of uncertainty in terms of who is doing what with different aspects of the offensive play design and philosophy.

 

JMO

 

 

 

Shady McCoy was always an RB who needed decent blocking to get him to the 2nd level.

John Butler is not the coordinator of our offensive passing game lol

 

He’s the defensive passing game coordinator

 

That’s a massive misunderstanding a lot of people here think

[Scott7975]

14 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

In my opinion shakur is not really getting the opportunity and he should

 

He has had 25% of the offensive snap counts on the year and done nothing with them.  What type of opportunity for a 5th round pick do you expect?  

Edited December 1, 2022 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, Mango said:

I think he’s absolutely toast. He was picked up by TB when they were a little banged up. He caught 4 balls for 17 yards. 

 

So basically just catching the ball and falling over like last year.

[3rdnlng]

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/bills-today-stefon-diggs-cole-beasley-rank-here-on-this-top-pass-catching-tandem

 

2020 Season:

 

5. Stefon Diggs + Cole Beasley, Buffalo Bills

Buffalo's passing offense returns the reigning highest-graded outside receiver, Stefon Diggs, and the second-highest-graded slot receiver, Cole Beasley.

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Beasley is the NFL slot receiver prototype. He ran 88.4% of his routes from the inside last season, the third-highest rate in the league. On those reps, he racked up 2.31 yards per route and 938 receiving yards while hauling in 83.9% of his targets en route to a 90.8 receiving grade. All four marks ranked inside the top three among league qualifiers.

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

Brady has no familiarity with Beasley.  I don't really care if Cole can't get us any YAC... just help us move the chains.  

 

The offense has not been good.  It's middle of the pack if you take away the hot start to the year. 

 

Youll care when its 3rd and 9 and Beasley gets 8 yards.  Thats what Beasley did last season.  Thats what he did in his short lived time in Tampa.

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

It's pretty sad to me how fans can hate a player just because he has different views/beliefs than them.

He played with a busted leg for this team and was a huge part of Josh growing as a QB

 

Yeah the large majority of the talk is about his play but carry on with your narrative.

4 hours ago, Joe Mama said:

Cole Beasley, Manny Sanders, to join Smoke on PS!

 

A couple more and they can just call it an alumni team instead of a practice squad

[Breakout Squad]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

The Bills don't appear to want him back. Who cares what he wants.

 

He isn't what he was. For several years he was excellent at handling both zone and man. Then his ability to handle man took a massive dip. It's not a mistake that his yards per reception took a massive drop, and was even lower in Tampa, though sample size makes his Tampa work statistically insignificant.

 

That's even before getting into his constant willingness to be a distraction and to break team rules.

 

 

But he still made clutch catches on 3rd down. We don’t have that. 

[nosejob]

Forgive me for not reading the 1000 posts.....but arguing which WR is this or that, to me is stupid. This line is *****. I'm sorry to say the old cliche that we're building for the long term. I believe in  Beane staggering contracts and am sure he'll build a hell of a line next year. This year, I'm gonna enjoy the ride. I'm not gonna expect a SB win, but if it happens, great. We're doing great considering and the show ain't over til the fat lady sings. Gonna be a great weekend to see some damage done. We make a statement....and then get 10 days off.

Fins whipped on, Cincy wins, Jets lose and the Titans get beat up. Perfect.

Edited December 1, 2022 by nosejob

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, Breakout Squad said:

But he still made clutch catches on 3rd down. We don’t have that. 

 

Buffalo ranks 2nd in the league at 3rd down conversion rate percentage.  Less than half a percent difference behind 1st place KC. 3rd place Philly is more than 3 percent behind the Bills.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Scott7975

[Victory Formation]

In no way would I not take Cole back..

 

Cole at 60-70% is better than McKenzie at 100%.

[OZBILLS]

Just now, Victory Formation said:

In no way would I not take Cole back..

 

Cole at 60-70% is better than McKenzie at 100%.

 

20% Cole is better imo

[Breakout Squad]

12 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Buffalo ranks 2nd in the league at 3rd down conversion rate percentage.  Less than half a percent difference behind 1st place KC. 3rd place Philly is more than 3 percent behind the Bills.

Right. And imagine adding a proven slot WR that knows the offense and has rapport with Josh. There is no downside in my opinion. If he doesn’t play well then release him. 
 

on another note, didn’t Tavon Austin leave BUF because he wasn’t getting opportunities to play. Why can’t he come back? 

[nosejob]

9 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

In no way would I not take Cole back..

 

Cole at 60-70% is better than McKenzie at 100%.

I disagree Isaiah gets yac. ...and if that hasn't been proven so far...he's saving our ass every other game wtf?

[BobbyC81]

15 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I mean I’ve been drinking heavilllly tonight lol which I can admit 

 

but a pro athlete doing that seems ludicrous to me … love the meme

Antonio Brown?

[Victory Formation]

20 minutes ago, nosejob said:

I disagree Isaiah gets yac. ...and if that hasn't been proven so far...he's saving our ass every other game wtf?

He’s a gadget/splash player kind of guy.. nothing more.

[without a drought]

See ya!

Over, finished, gone, done, out

!

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Disagree. Bease's bread and butter was getting hit on quick slants or short verticals to make the quick catch and scoot for another few yards. This is exactly what Brady loves to do with his little WRs.

 

He wasnt going deep, and then coming back and improvising when Josh broke the pocket.

 

Bease was doing the same thing in Tampa, making the quick catch, but NOT getting the additional yards. He came up short of the 1st down marker on 3rd down multiple times, and was released.

 

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

THIS. 100,000 times. THIS. 

 

While I get where you are coming from, this is not really close to a fair analysis really though in regards to his 2 games in TB.  And he wasn't let go because he was useless, he was   

1. Cole was coming off sitting on his couch, played immediately in 2 games out of desperation due to TB injuries to WR's.  He was NOT anywhere close to game ready shape.  So to judge him this harsh fresh off his couch after not playing any football or practices in 9 months is a bit extreme.  Not to mention, he had only 5 targets (caught 4 of them).  
2. He didn't even know the playbook or have any rapport yet with Brady, yet still caught 4 of 5 passes and converted a 4th down.  
3. Cole's value here is substantially higher than in TB for a number of reasons:
   1. He knows the offense, he knows Allen.
   2. He can get into better game shape prior to the playoffs if he came in soon.
   3. A big part, and its a really big part, of Allens game is off improvising and extending plays.  Cole already has that chemistry with Allen and is a VERY cerebral player and can find those soft spots coming back to help Allen when he is extending plays to convert important 3rd downs.

There is NO DOUBT that Cole is NOT the same player he once was.  BUT...he can still be a contributor here, especially once he gets more of his game ready legs under him.  It's not like we cant win the SB this year without him, but he definitely could contribute some, especially on key plays we need to extend drives.  I would trust him 100 times more than I would trust McKenzie on say 3rd and 6 on a key drive.  McKenzie is an absolute liability catching in traffic, he can not pick up tough yards consistently.  

 

So for me...100% I would be open to Cole coming back.  Do I think its a must do move?  No, of course not, but I do think he can still have some value to this team this year, and the locker room loves him and his toughness.  And this team could use some toughness outside Diggs and Allen in the passing game.  

[nosejob]

20 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

He’s a gadget/splash player kind of guy.. nothing more.

We've won thanks to him...

 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

While I get where you are coming from, this is not really close to a fair analysis really though in regards to his 2 games in TB.  And he wasn't let go because he was useless, he was   

1. Cole was coming off sitting on his couch, played immediately in 2 games out of desperation due to TB injuries to WR's.  He was NOT anywhere close to game ready shape.  So to judge him this harsh fresh off his couch after not playing any football or practices in 9 months is a bit extreme.  Not to mention, he had only 5 targets (caught 4 of them).  
2. He didn't even know the playbook or have any rapport yet with Brady, yet still caught 4 of 5 passes and converted a 4th down.  
3. Cole's value here is substantially higher than in TB for a number of reasons:
   1. He knows the offense, he knows Allen.
   2. He can get into better game shape prior to the playoffs if he came in soon.
   3. A big part, and its a really big part, of Allens game is off improvising and extending plays.  Cole already has that chemistry with Allen and is a VERY cerebral player and can find those soft spots coming back to help Allen when he is extending plays to convert important 3rd downs.

There is NO DOUBT that Cole is NOT the same player he once was.  BUT...he can still be a contributor here, especially once he gets more of his game ready legs under him.  It's not like we cant win the SB this year without him, but he definitely could contribute some, especially on key plays we need to extend drives.  I would trust him 100 times more than I would trust McKenzie on say 3rd and 6 on a key drive.  McKenzie is an absolute liability catching in traffic, he can not pick up tough yards consistently.  

 

So for me...100% I would be open to Cole coming back.  Do I think its a must do move?  No, of course not, but I do think he can still have some value to this team this year, and the locker room loves him and his toughness.  And this team could use some toughness outside Diggs and Allen in the passing game.  

 

He can't still be a contributor here IMO. I think he is washed. I didn't think he was good last year. His numbers flattered him and were more Josh than Beasley. He consistently struggled to make plays he made in the other 2 years. Would he catch some balls if they were thrown his way? Sure. But he has no YAC ability at all at this point. And the guys we have there - particularly Mczkenzie and Knox are open enough. The ball just isn't going there often. I'd rather we just throw them the ball. 

 

Beas was terrific here his first two years. He played a big part in making us contenders and in Josh's development. For that he has my gratitude. He can't still play. And Beane knows it. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

18 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Every break up with someone thinking, "I don't need this s**t. I can do better."? I know I have. And then a couple years later I realized, no, no I can't do better.

Ever break up with someone because they are not who they were when the relationship started? That’s more accurate haha. If tb couldn’t use him with all the receiver injuries they had he is likely washed 

[Nephilim17]

15 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Ever break up with someone because they are not who they were when the relationship started? That’s more accurate haha. If tb couldn’t use him with all the receiver injuries they had he is likely washed 

My take was Beasley's POV. Yours is the Bills. They do not contradict each other as they don't represent the same party.

[ILBillsfan]

19 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Hope in all the pages it was addresssed that the Bucs own his rights

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:

Hope in all the pages it was addresssed that the Bucs own his rights

 

If he was on their practice squad when he left they might not be able to stop the Bills from signing him to the active roster.

lol, who the hell am I kidding?

[Warriorspikes51]

16 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:

Hope in all the pages it was addresssed that the Bucs own his rights

They do not. Contract was terminated

[BillsShredder83]

18 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He says he would, not that he wants to.

 

When we play the "would you" game on OTW, those two things mean the same thing. And i def wooooooooooood

[julian]

41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He can't still be a contributor here IMO. I think he is washed. I didn't think he was good last year. His numbers flattered him and were more Josh than Beasley. He consistently struggled to make plays he made in the other 2 years. Would he catch some balls if they were thrown his way? Sure. But he has no YAC ability at all at this point. And the guys we have there - particularly Mczkenzie and Knox are open enough. The ball just isn't going there often. I'd rather we just throw them the ball. 

 

Beas was terrific here his first two years. He played a big part in making us contenders and in Josh's development. For that he has my gratitude. He can't still play. And Beane knows it. 

This is exactly right, his most recent dozen games or more of tape is the reason I find it difficult to imagine management would consider a reunion.