Very disturbing to see how many fans have turned against Allen.

[The Jokeman]

4 minutes ago, todd said:

 

Are you suggesting he's not? He's effing awesome, and that throw to Diggs, despite gutting it out with an injury proves it. Any other answer than "Josh is awesome and I ask forgiveness for anything I've ever said even remotely negative about him" is what fools think. Repent.

I know he is but some fans either feel Josh can't be blamed at all for mistakes and others want to blame everything on him. To me there's a middle point and that's where I'm at. I mean I was upset with Josh's interception and near interception but also give him credit for the clutch pass to Diggs on the final drive. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by The Jokeman

[NewEra]

Me:  Josh looks confused out there.  I hope he gets it together.  
 

tbd Karen:  you’re not a real fan!  Real fans wouldn’t turn on Josh Allen like that!

[Process]

Pointing out that Allen has played like dog doo doo for four weeks doesn't mean you've "turned on him"

[LabattBlue]

I think it is a fair critique to say that Allen's play in the last few games has been very up and down. The interceptions, poor RZ play, tipped balls, etc...

 

If it wasn't for Allen's ability to run, his play would be downright awful.

 

Now whether it is his elbow, mental, bad OL play, or poor offense design by Dorsey...who knows?

[FireChans]

17 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

It’s really disheartening and disturbing these last 5 games how many have turned against Allen. Guy gives it his all and puts his heart and soul on the team. Has he played reckless? Yes he has. But the team around him outside of Diggs has not helped him much at all. Davis is not the true number 2 WR that we all hoped he would become after his playoff stint against the Chiefs. Knox has also taken a big step back since getting his new contract and that’s becoming a growing theme not only for us but to every team around the league. Also the o line has regressed and large part due to injuries. Chances are we’re going to need a new center and move on from Morse. 
 

 

to all those who dislike Allen now. Just remember what we had for 17 years before Allen came to us. Remember Bledsoe, Losman, Fitzpatrick and Edwards, Van Pelt etc

Lmao Josh himself has said he keeps playing like *****. The only people who disagree are people like you 

[Ralonzo]

14 hours ago, purple haze said:

Turning the ball over in the red zone will cause a team to struggle.  It costs points and makes games closer than they otherwise might be.   Do that across multiple weeks what do we have?  Dogfight games.  That’s just basic principles of football.  He needs to stop turning the ball over in the red zone.  Period.

Yet, He’s still the guy I want leading the team.   He’s a dog and he’ll get it together eventually.  Both thoughts can co-exist.

Yesterday's red zone turnover was 95% stale playcalling and 5% Allen. It makes me want to revisit the other seemingly inexplicable red zone mistakes to see how much of this is tipped off by Dorsey calling stuff that there is copious film study on how to stop it, and failing to adjust during weekly game planning. "Ah screw it, it worked against the Titans, run it again"

 

Edit: That's for the actual interception. The "almost interception" is 100% on the rookie and frankly superior execution by Allen that it wasn't an actual interception. The last one I can think was conclusively all on Allen was the one he tried to turf that got scooped vs GB 2nd half. I think there's a heavy setup-to-fail scheme component to a lot of the rest.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Ralonzo

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Ralonzo said:

Yesterday's red zone turnover was 95% stale playcalling and 5% Allen. It makes me want to revisit the other seemingly inexplicable red zone mistakes to see how much of this is tipped off by Dorsey calling stuff that there is copious film study on how to stop it, and failing to adjust during weekly game planning. "Ah screw it, it worked against the Titans, run it again"

Dorsey definitely needs to up his game and show some creativity and the ability to adjust.

[Tim Tindale]

15 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I think it is a fair critique to say that Allen's play in the last few games has been very up and down. The interceptions, poor RZ play, tipped balls, etc...

 

If it wasn't for Allen's ability to run, his play would be downright awful.

 

Now whether it is his elbow, mental, bad OL play, or poor offense design by Dorsey...who knows?

I think “downright awful” is a hyperbole. They are putting up roughly 30 points a game. “Below what we have come to expect from Josh”, I’m willing to grant. 
 

But “downright awful” when 25+ franchises would gladly accept the output in a rut?  Makes me wonder if there is a loss of perspective…

[FireChans]

Just now, Ralonzo said:

Yesterday's red zone turnover was 95% stale playcalling and 5% Allen. It makes me want to revisit the other seemingly inexplicable red zone mistakes to see how much of this is tipped off by Dorsey calling stuff that there is copious film study on how to stop it, and failing to adjust during weekly game planning. "Ah screw it, it worked against the Titans, run it again"

I disagree. Play was there to be made, Diggs annihilated his man.

 

I think Josh can’t zip it everytime with his elbow. That extra half second equals more passes batted down.

Just now, Tim Tindale said:

I think “downright awful” is a hyperbole. They are putting up roughly 30 points a game. “Below what we have come to expect from Josh”, I’m willing to grant. 
 

But “downright awful” when 25+ franchises would gladly accept the output in a rut?  Makes me wonder if there is a loss of perspective…

Josh leads the league in interceptions and at certain points, he and the coaches don’t trust his arm and very obviously make him play Cam Newton ball.

 

Thats not good.

[FilthyBeast]

Who exactly has turned on Allen? While it's fair to question how good he really is in the top 10 QB discussion, you can't blame him for the slop around him that our alleged genius GM assembled on this roster. Nor can you blame the hideous coaching and play calling at times.

 

I've said this before though, if you take JA17 out of the equation not only is this a bottom 5 NFL team/roster, but we'd already be on a new head coach and GM a long time ago. And should this team fail to meet lofty expectations this year which is looking more and more likely as the season goes on that's why you can't be afraid to make sweeping changes knowing the current window is only going to be open for so long, if not slammed shut in the next few years.

[Ralonzo]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I disagree. Play was there to be made, Diggs annihilated his man.

 

I think Josh can’t zip it everytime with his elbow. That extra half second equals more passes batted down.

 

Disagree. They've run that RPO fire slant all season and defenses have adapted over time. At first it worked well, then it would get covered by the DB, then the DL would know to get an arm up to bat it, and finally it resulted in a turnover. You could see this coming week-over-week because the play apparently has an obvious key that defenses have located to know when it's coming.

[LabattBlue]

8 minutes ago, Tim Tindale said:

I think “downright awful” is a hyperbole. They are putting up roughly 30 points a game. “Below what we have come to expect from Josh”, I’m willing to grant. 
 

But “downright awful” when 25+ franchises would gladly accept the output in a rut?  Makes me wonder if there is a loss of perspective…

...and how much of the offense would disappear if it wasn't Allen's heroics when running the ball over the last few weeks?  If you go back and read my post, I was speaking of the passing game over the last few weeks.

Edited November 25, 2022 by LabattBlue

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I disagree. Play was there to be made, Diggs annihilated his man.

 

I think Josh can’t zip it everytime with his elbow. That extra half second equals more passes batted down.

Josh leads the league in interceptions and at certain points, he and the coaches don’t trust his arm and very obviously make him play Cam Newton ball.

 

Thats not good.

?? — the throw started out perfectly and was on a rope. If that isn’t tipped, it’s a TD. Tips happen and they are essentially random. I will grant that the d-line did seem to know what was coming, but that’s on the play caller, not the player. I don’t really fault Allen for that pick. There is randomness in the sport and that’s a classic example. Again, it was a bullet that was going to be a TD. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by dave mcbride

[Playoffs?]

10 minutes ago, Tim Tindale said:

I think “downright awful” is a hyperbole. They are putting up roughly 30 points a game. “Below what we have come to expect from Josh”, I’m willing to grant. 
 

But “downright awful” when 25+ franchises would gladly accept the output in a rut?  Makes me wonder if there is a loss of perspective…

I think you nailed it with “below what we have come to expect.”

 

And the fact that we’re a long-cursed (seemingly) and championship starved fan base, it only heightens the emotions and overreactions.  When the start of every season begins with ‘THIS is our year,’ we’ve already built these expectations in our head. I’m guilty of not sleeping on my thoughts sometimes!

[LabattBlue]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Tips happen and they are essentially random.

Wasn't there a stat here earlier in the season that Josh has the highest(or one of the highest) percentage of passes tipped?  Just surprising for a QB who is 6'5".  Wouldn't be as surprising for QB who are on the shorter side.

[T master]

17 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

It’s really disheartening and disturbing these last 5 games how many have turned against Allen. Guy gives it his all and puts his heart and soul on the team. Has he played reckless? Yes he has. But the team around him outside of Diggs has not helped him much at all. Davis is not the true number 2 WR that we all hoped he would become after his playoff stint against the Chiefs. Knox has also taken a big step back since getting his new contract and that’s becoming a growing theme not only for us but to every team around the league. Also the o line has regressed and large part due to injuries. Chances are we’re going to need a new center and move on from Morse. 
 

 

to all those who dislike Allen now. Just remember what we had for 17 years before Allen came to us. Remember Bledsoe, Losman, Fitzpatrick and Edwards, Van Pelt etc

 

This is Buffalo Bills territory every time they lose a game someone is calling for Beane or McD to be fired - Beane can't build a team he doesn't know how to choose good depth players - McD is terrible at clock management the D they called sucked - the training staff isn't good enough we got to many guys getting hurt - Frazier play calling for the D sucks we need to fire every body & start over ...

 

Typical Bills Mafia stuff can't men everybody happy until they win a game by scoring 40 points then its all about GO BILLS !! Need to get use to it if you plan on being a Bills fan !! 

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Wasn't there a stat here earlier in the season that Josh has the highest(or one of the highest) percentage of passes tipped?  Just surprising for a QB who is 6'5".  Wouldn't be as surprising for QB who are on the shorter side.

Well, the Bills throw a lot and he is really hard to sack. And a lot of the near sacks result in 15 yard runs and 25-yard scramble throws. It seems to me that teams probably do more leaps to block passes against the Bills than against other teams. It stands to reason, and also the number of passes that are actually tipped is very, very low. With someone like Goff or Mac Jones or Stafford or Burrow or Garappolo or Cousins, it’s probably wiser to just tee off and go for the sack.

Edited November 25, 2022 by dave mcbride

[Playoffs?]

5 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Wasn't there a stat here earlier in the season that Josh has the highest(or one of the highest) percentage of passes tipped?  Just surprising for a QB who is 6'5".  Wouldn't be as surprising for QB who are on the shorter side.

Seems like Josh has almost somewhat of a sidearm release. Kelly’s motion was much more over the top. Josh seems to come from the side more.. more like a baseball throw.  Just what I’m seeing. Maybe that’s a bad take though…

[Tim Tindale]

5 minutes ago, Playoffs? said:

I think you nailed it with “below what we have come to expect.”

 

And the fact that we’re a long-cursed (seemingly) and championship starved fan base, it only heightens the emotions and overreactions.  When the start of every season begins with ‘THIS is our year,’ we’ve already built these expectations in our head. I’m guilty of not sleeping on my thoughts sometimes!

The NFL has been such a QB-driven league for a long time - a couple decades now.  When I think about what the Bills would be if they stepped down to just average at the QB position - even during this rut - it’s not a pretty picture. Essentially, Allen’s WAR has to be exceptionally high even during an injury-induced slump. Call me sentimental, but it makes me a grateful fan. Lived through a lot of disasters at the QB position post-Kelly. 

[clayboy54]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Me:  Josh looks confused out there.  I hope he gets it together.  
 

tbd Karen:  you’re not a real fan!  Real fans wouldn’t turn on Josh Allen like that!

Did you see Josh’s postgame presser? When asked about Romo’s comments about how injured he really is, his response was very telling. Watch it.

 

He didn’t say “I’m okay” or anything of the sort. If you ask me, his facial expression and non-answer tells me he is in pretty rough shape, physically.

 

This explains a whole lot about his recent play, the interception and even the play calls. It’s really interesting, actually.

[RoscoeParrish]

17 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

It’s really disheartening and disturbing these last 5 games how many have turned against Allen. Guy gives it his all and puts his heart and soul on the team. Has he played reckless? Yes he has. But the team around him outside of Diggs has not helped him much at all. Davis is not the true number 2 WR that we all hoped he would become after his playoff stint against the Chiefs. Knox has also taken a big step back since getting his new contract and that’s becoming a growing theme not only for us but to every team around the league. Also the o line has regressed and large part due to injuries. Chances are we’re going to need a new center and move on from Morse. 
 

 

to all those who dislike Allen now. Just remember what we had for 17 years before Allen came to us. Remember Bledsoe, Losman, Fitzpatrick and Edwards, Van Pelt etc

I don’t think it’s a “turn against Allen”.  He hasn’t played to the level he is capable of.  There’s nothing wrong as fans to call that out.  What’s more disturbing are the fans that believe Allen is never the problem. 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

Did you see Josh’s postgame presser? When asked about Romo’s comments about how injured he really is, his response was very telling. Watch it.

 

He didn’t say “I’m okay” or anything of the sort. If you ask me, his facial expression and non-answer tells me he is in pretty rough shape, physically.

 

This explains a whole lot about his recent play, the interception and even the play calls. It’s really interesting, actually.

What does this have to do with my post? 
 

i hope Josh gets it together….  Do you?

[clayboy54]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

What does this have to do with my post? 
 

i hope Josh gets it together….  Do you?

Apparently nothing to you, Bevis.

 

The guy is hurt more than anybody is letting on. Wouldn’t you be confused if you had a crazy amount of pain? What I hope for is that Josh gets to feeling better!

[Low Positive]

I don't think anybody is turning on Josh. We just get upset/frustrated in the moment and post stupid hot takes. I, for one, don't really mean them. It's just been a frustrating run of games since the bye week and this board is a place to vent. 

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

Apparently nothing to you, Bevis.

 

The guy is hurt more than anybody is letting on. Wouldn’t you be confused if you had a crazy amount of pain? What I hope for is that Josh gets to feeling better!

I agree he’s hurt.  He’s also making some bad decisions and throwing bad passes.  He wasn’t hurt vs the packers or the jets (until the final seconds) and threw 4 terrible interceptions….

 

Get right Josh.  

[TheBrownBear]

18 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I don't think anybody is turning on Josh. We just get upset/frustrated in the moment and post stupid hot takes. I, for one, don't really mean them. It's just been a frustrating run of games since the bye week and this board is a place to vent. 

The GDT, especially, is a place to vent our most basic, unfiltered, often irrational, certainly frequently idiotic, and typically anxiety induced human emotions in real time.  Its a "get it off your chest" space - at least for me.  I'm not ashamed to say I've posted some really embarrassing things in there over the years in hindsight.  

 

Bottom line - we all love the Bills and love Josh and want them to succeed.  Outsiders began telling us early in the year that this team and Josh Allen were essentially perfect and going to stroll to a championship, and some of us started to buy into that.  Last few weeks we've discovered that this team is actually a collection of human beings and not T100's.  This realization has been a blow to our fanbase's collective psyche.  The increase in "moronic take" and "hate posting" is a byproduct of that. 

[gobills1212]

56 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

I don’t think it’s a “turn against Allen”.  He hasn’t played to the level he is capable of.  There’s nothing wrong as fans to call that out.  What’s more disturbing are the fans that believe Allen is never the problem. 

But w a qb like him you take the good w the bad. Like that last laser beam yesterday to diggs.  It was a hell of a throw, on target and won the game. Everyone is happy. If it had have sailed, people would have been all over him for being too agressive blah blah blah. You take the good and the bad bc thats ur qb. We are used to way more good than bad now, but if dents and dings are prohibitive of that until we get a bit of a rest then we have to accept that too. He lost us the Jets game and arguably the Vikings game. But he wins so many others ya just have to deal and it is what it is. Im not sure why people seem to have such a hard time with this relatively simple concept...

[RoscoeParrish]

57 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

But w a qb like him you take the good w the bad. Like that last laser beam yesterday to diggs.  It was a hell of a throw, on target and won the game. Everyone is happy. If it had have sailed, people would have been all over him for being too agressive blah blah blah. You take the good and the bad bc thats ur qb. We are used to way more good than bad now, but if dents and dings are prohibitive of that until we get a bit of a rest then we have to accept that too. He lost us the Jets game and arguably the Vikings game. But he wins so many others ya just have to deal and it is what it is. Im not sure why people seem to have such a hard time with this relatively simple concept...

For sure, but as fans, you should be able to call out the bad without being crucified. 

[BRH]

19 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

The GDT was quite hilarious with all of the idiots calling for the Bills to take a knee with all of that time remaining 😂😂

 

Holy crap am I glad I wasn't in there.

[BigAl2526]

Human nature.  Of course, it's not everybody, but lots of people can only remember back to the last thing a person did.  Josh Allen and the whole offense is working through some stuff, but the team would look for the next decade and not find a replacement for Allen who has his talent.  The team needs to keep their focus and work through the challenges.  Detroit is a good team, and Buffalo managed to win despite wrestling with their own mistakes.  If at some point it becomes obvious they can't work through their issues, then maybe Beane will need to look at a personnel overhaul, but we are nowhere near that point at the moment.

[BRH]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Lmao Josh himself has said he keeps playing like *****. 

 

That's because that's what a leader does.

14 hours ago, Airseven said:

Based on pure athleticism, yes of course. But Allen has yet to prove he can WIN like Kelly. And that’s what matters.

 

I loved Kelly, but the only games he has won that Josh hasn't are AFCCGs.  And none of the teams he played in those games -- Raiders, Broncos, Dolphins, Chiefs -- were close to the level of Kansas City today.  Plus he got to play three of those games at home because the AFCE was largely horrible other than the Bills, which isn't the case now.

[Eastport bills]

Any fan who turns on Josh deserves the purgatory we resided in for 30 years. This guy leaves his everything on the field and when the Bills lose, he takes full responsibility  unlike many pro QBs. He had a 2 game hiccup. Deal with it, he’s in the conversation for best QB in football and finds a way with a diminished roster. He is Bills football.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, BRH said:

 

That's because that's what a leader does.

 

I loved Kelly, but the only games he has won that Josh hasn't are AFCCGs.  And none of the teams he played in those games -- Raiders, Broncos, Dolphins, Chiefs -- were close to the level of Kansas City today.  Plus he got to play three of those games at home because the AFCE was largely horrible other than the Bills, which isn't the case now.

Yeah exactly, they say I’m playing like ***** when they are playing like ***** lol

[BRH]

Just now, FireChans said:

Yeah exactly, they say I’m playing like ***** when they are playing like ***** lol

 

No, lol, they say they're playing like ***** to take the pressure off the guys that ARE playing like *****.  I'm sure that in the room Josh has plenty to say to the guys that are playing like *****, but he wouldn't call them out publicly.  Remember when Kelly publicly blamed House Ballard, and Thurman came out and said he'd better look at himself as well?  And when Flutie would say "we fumbled the ball" or "we threw an interception" instead of saying that HE fumbled or threw a pick?  I don't miss those days.

 

Whether he's playing like ***** or not, Josh is saying all the right things.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I agree he’s hurt.  He’s also making some bad decisions and throwing bad passes.  He wasn’t hurt vs the packers or the jets (until the final seconds) and threw 4 terrible interceptions….

 

Get right Josh.  

There is a massive difference of being critical of a mistake vs trashing Allen.  It’s fair to be critical and analyze a mistake by Allen…then there’s idiotic statements saying he’s been total trash for 4 weeks when he’s been the only reason we have even been in games, let alone won them.  
 

Im not up to speed on your take, just making a general comment.  There are some realllllllly stupid comments about Allen going around these boards, shout box, etc.  

Edited November 25, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Ya Digg?]

13 minutes ago, BRH said:

 

Holy crap am I glad I wasn't in there.

I normally avoid it but for some reason over the last couple of games I have checked it out…definitely not a good place to be if you value your sanity 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

There is a massive difference of being critical of a mistake vs trashing Allen.  It’s fair to be critical and analyze a mistake by Allen…then there’s idiotic statements saying he’s been total trash for 4 weeks when he’s been the only reason we have even been in games, let alone won them.  
 

Im not up to speed on your take, just making a general comment.  There are some realllllllly stupid comments about Allen going around these boards, shout box, etc.  

my comments are tame.  He’s hasn’t played well.  Partly because of his injury and partly because of poor decision making/execution. Partly because of the new OC and missing Daboll.  Partly because he and his targets aren’t always in sync.  Lots of reasons.  
 

bottom line- he isn’t the same qb that we saw prior to the 2nd half of the GB game.  17 and the rest of the offense need to get back on track or we won’t win a super bowl. 
 

He’s still a god in my book.

 

I do my best to stay away from the individual comments after a loss or bad performance.  I usually stick to OPs and responses to my posts.  So I can’t really chime in on these ridiculous comments.  I have yet to see a comment in which the poster had “turned on him”.  From what I’ve read, people say they exist….I’ve yet to witness any.  
 

maybe someone can put together a multi quote post pointing out these takes….. I have no motivation for such a thing

[Motorin']

3 hours ago, BRH said:

 

That's because that's what a leader does.

 

I loved Kelly, but the only games he has won that Josh hasn't are AFCCGs.  And none of the teams he played in those games -- Raiders, Broncos, Dolphins, Chiefs -- were close to the level of Kansas City today.  Plus he got to play three of those games at home because the AFCE was largely horrible other than the Bills, which isn't the case now.

 

Kelly was also 31 before he played in his first AFCCG. 

[Big Turk]

The last 6 games they have been "struggling" the Bills have averaged the 6th most points per game at 26.2 and the 4th most yards at 396 per game.

 

So basically even when they are "struggling" they are a top 5 offense in the NFL. 

 

That should be absolutely terrifying for the rest of the NFL.

 

They have 16 TDs and 15 FG during that timeframe, so I think the more accurate thing to say is they are struggling to score TDs as efficiently as they normally do.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Big Turk

[UKBillFan]

4 hours ago, RoscoeParrish said:

For sure, but as fans, you should be able to call out the bad without being crucified. 

 

You have 70 posts and I think every one of them has been either bashing Josh or defending bashing Josh. There are limits.

Edited November 25, 2022 by UKBillFan