boyst Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) SUW... After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone. Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line). It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? Edited November 23, 2022 by boyst 4 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellyToTasker Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 minute ago, boyst said: SUW... After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone. Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line). It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? Hopefully you’re not down 7-10 points against a poor offense. Just scoring a touchdown, you should have momentum. I don’t see the need in giving it right back to the other team, should they get a first down or two. Onside kicks are so difficult to win. I’d only do it in desperation time, not with plenty of time on the clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, boyst said: SUW... After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone. Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line). It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? my gut has always said that. Or even some 15-20 yard surprise bounce high in the air “Hail Mary” to field gets you pretty close to the touchback result but with high upside of someone mishandling it or your team snagging it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, boyst said: SUW... After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone. Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line). It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? Good question. I wonder if the rules allow an onside after a penalty in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, boyst said: SUW... After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone. Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line). It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? Because (at least now), the odds of recovering one are so small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 What if your kicker can get it through the goal posts on a kickoff? Should it count for 3 points? Some arena league football will give you 1-2 points for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 I always wonder why so many teams just blast the kickoff through the endzone in that situation. Maybe not going for the onside, but why not just kick it high and short? The chargers did it the other night and (luckily) the Chiefs player caught it and went out of bounds, but it seems like such a waste to just have them kick it through the endzone. I like that the Bills normally have Bass kick it high and short, seems like a no brainer when you kick off from The 50 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 54 minutes ago, boyst said: Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line). McDermott is aggressive enough. Don't give him any ideas. I'd be afraid of any momentum swings with a play like that. And if the defense is good, you can continue to play the field position game if you get a 3 and out when they start at the 25. If the other offense starts at their 40 you could find yourself backed up inside your own 10 yard line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, boyst said: SUW... After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone. Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line). It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? This is an interesting thought and have never contemplated. I agree with the concept. I’d assume once a team does this once or twice, other teams will start to catch on and decline enforcement of the penalty on the ensuing kick-off. Might be able to give this a shot once or twice, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Often times in this scenario the kicking team attempts to pop-up the kick short of the goal line and play coverage. I think this is the best play since the coverage unit gets such an advantage 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, NoSaint said: my gut has always said that. Or even some 15-20 yard surprise bounce high in the air “Hail Mary” to field gets you pretty close to the touchback result but with high upside of someone mishandling it or your team snagging it I’ve always been curious about the ability of a kicker to put enough air under the kickoff, so that the kicking team has as much chance to get to the kickoff as the receiving team (essentially a jump ball). Does anyone here know how much teams have ever played around with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 13 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said: This is an interesting thought and have never contemplated. I agree with the concept. I’d assume once a team does this once or twice, other teams will start to catch on and decline enforcement of the penalty on the ensuing kick-off. Might be able to give this a shot once or twice, though. 6 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said: I’ve always been curious about the ability of a kicker to put enough air under the kickoff, so that the kicking team has as much chance to get to the kickoff as the receiving team (essentially a jump ball). Does anyone here know how much teams have ever played around with this? All of a sudden, Belichick is calling for extra secret special teams practice sessions. As some of the high school coaches of my generation did, "pull the cars up and shine their headlights on the field!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 36 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said: I’ve always been curious about the ability of a kicker to put enough air under the kickoff, so that the kicking team has as much chance to get to the kickoff as the receiving team (essentially a jump ball). Does anyone here know how much teams have ever played around with this? The returner could simply call a fair catch if he sees too many defenders approaching. We don't see it a lot, but you can fair catch a KO. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, boyst said: SUW... After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone. Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line). It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? If the old rules were still in effect, may see that happen. Likely so little data to review, but wonder too, in the situation you describe, does the defense tend to pull up more knowing how easy it is for team to kick out of end zone, so they are more looking for squib kick or short kick, but it over the heads of first line of defenders, etc. Could be the receiving team is more in a natural position to defend the on-sides kick?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 59 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: McDermott is aggressive enough. Don't give him any ideas. Remember when people thought he was too conservative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 hours ago, boyst said: SUW... After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone. Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line). It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? I saw this in a HS football game last week - and actually called it as they were lining up. Seemed like a no brainer to me - but I think normal kickoff is from the 40. And of course one size doesn't fit all - have to consider things like the score, how far into the game, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 I would fear a momentum shift just like if they got a big kickoff return. That said many teams kick the ball very high and short because the kickoff team is 15 yards closer to the return guys. You have a good chance of pinning them well back of the 25 yard line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 WTF is SUW? 3 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Ya Digg? said: I always wonder why so many teams just blast the kickoff through the endzone in that situation. Maybe not going for the onside, but why not just kick it high and short? The chargers did it the other night and (luckily) the Chiefs player caught it and went out of bounds, but it seems like such a waste to just have them kick it through the endzone. I like that the Bills normally have Bass kick it high and short, seems like a no brainer when you kick off from The 50 yup. or you line drive the hell out of it at some non hands team guy. If it bounces off his head, awesome. If not, it isn’t going to be a great return. 53 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: I would fear a momentum shift just like if they got a big kickoff return. That said many teams kick the ball very high and short because the kickoff team is 15 yards closer to the return guys. You have a good chance of pinning them well back of the 25 yard line. but is “I got the hall at the 35” a momentum shift? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said: I’ve always been curious about the ability of a kicker to put enough air under the kickoff, so that the kicking team has as much chance to get to the kickoff as the receiving team (essentially a jump ball). Does anyone here know how much teams have ever played around with this? 1 hour ago, WhoTom said: The returner could simply call a fair catch if he sees too many defenders approaching. We don't see it a lot, but you can fair catch a KO. The technical term is "pooch kick." The Bills attempted this in The Houston Comeback after it was 35-17. Several Houston players called for a fair catch (I can't believe that was legal), but the swirling winds caused the ball to land on the field, which Houston recovered. I think the optimal strategy for most of the game is this one: 2 hours ago, SWATeam said: Often times in this scenario the kicking team attempts to pop-up the kick short of the goal line and play coverage. I think this is the best play since the coverage unit gets such an advantage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Have your Kicker kick the ball low, hard and directly at the guy in the middle. From 10 yards away, that ball would be moving fast, leaving it difficult to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, WhoTom said: The returner could simply call a fair catch if he sees too many defenders approaching. We don't see it a lot, but you can fair catch a KO. Reallyyyyyy? Seems like the sky balls like we saw end of last game should always be that way. At what point of that does kicking team lose ability to play the ball though. If they high point a ball and bump into returner on way down seems like it'd be penalty. Interesting topic btw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 what does SUW mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said: what does SUW mean? 3 hours ago, Gugny said: WTF is SUW? Spanish under wear Edit. Fine. All I'll say is it goes back to pre OFW days. When random topics were created that didn't have specific things to do with the Bills, where thoughts were abstract and undisciplined, were silly and unfocused at times and usually midweek babble. Edited November 23, 2022 by boyst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) what is OFW? you are losing me dude Edited November 23, 2022 by Robert Paulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 Just now, Robert Paulson said: what is OFW? you are losing me dude Autocorrect. Meant OTW. Which is off the wall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 maybe one of those that land in between the return lines and might cause someone who doesn't usually handle the ball and isn't expecting to suddenly to need to field a ball that's bouncing strangely. Still low % but what the heck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 6 hours ago, boyst said: SUW... After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone. Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line). It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? Idk what game I saw this in but someone kicked it very high and short of the end zone in that situation and the offense started on the 6. Id take that over an onside attempt which is 90% recovered by the kicking team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Gugny said: WTF is SUW? Something U wonder? Seems useful wishing? shakes ur wang? smells under wear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, The Wiz said: Something U wonder? Seems useful wishing? shakes ur wang? smells under wear? Not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, boyst said: Not even close. those letters dont even match!?!?!?! 🤣 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 If you make a fair catch on a kickoff the ball is placed at the 25 yard line even if it was caught at the 2 yard line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Robert Paulson said: what does SUW mean? Senseless Unthinking Weekday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, boyst said: SUW... After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone. Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line). It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? question? Will receiving team have a Gabe Davis trying to field the onsides kick? lol Edited November 23, 2022 by cba fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 minute ago, cba fan said: question? Will receiving team have a Gabe Davis trying to field the onsides kick? lol It's funny to mess with Gabe on that one, but I doubt anybody would have been able to field that thing cleanly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 27 minutes ago, Simon said: Senseless Unthinking Weekday Silly unfocused Wednesday. C'mon man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Simon said: It's funny to mess with Gabe on that one, but I doubt anybody would have been able to field that thing cleanly. it hit him in the facemask. 🤷♂️ after going through his hands 😂 Edited November 23, 2022 by cba fan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 9 hours ago, boyst said: SUW... After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone. Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line). It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? Would make sense if it was actually possible to recover an onside kick under the current rules. At this point, it would basically just be giving away field position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, cba fan said: it hit him in the facemask. 🤷♂️ after going through his hands 😂 It was doing about 80mph coming up from a perfect hop off the turf. 16 minutes ago, boyst said: Silly unfocused Wednesday. C'mon man. My Roget's is a 2014 edition 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SECRET SQUIRREL Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 SUW - Someone understand why? Racking my brain trying to figure it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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