Hines elite returning ability shined vs Browns

[JerseyBills]

This dude is electric in space and really can be an X factor on this team, even if it is mainly for his returning ability. 

 

Not to say he won't have an impact on O but with Motor getting 70% of the snaps and Cook running with confidence,  he might just not have many opportunities 

 

This is extremely important for a SB run and can totally change the momentum of a game with big time returns and just adds another element to this team

 

Only issue is his contract.  It's about 1.88 mil this year but jumps to 4.4 mil next year and 5.1 in 24.

I'm not sure if he's worth it long term but he certainly adds a big time element that was lacking this year and worth the 6th and Moss.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by JerseyBills

[Warriorspikes51]

His speed along the sideline on that one return was elite. 

Putting Hines and Cook on the field together could really cause some problems for defenses.....   SCREEN GAME PLEASE  

[NewEra]

Electric is right.  Now let’s learn how to use him in the pass/run game.  
 

The browns cover 2 shelled is almost the entire game.  We decided that Knox was the best underneath option this past week.  He played well and did the job, but Hines and/or cook would be more dangerous and could force teams away from defending us in that way.  That was a miserable first half of offense on Sunday (minus the last drive).  That defense still gives us fits even though we’ve added speed @ RB.  

hopefully Dorsey figures it out in time to make the playoffs and the make our run.

 

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Electric is right.  Now let’s learn how to use him in the pass/run game.  
 

The browns cover 2 shelled is almost the entire game.  We decided that Knox was the best underneath option this past week.  He played well and did the job, but Hines and/or cook would be more dangerous and could force teams away from defending us in that way.  That was a miserable first half of offense on Sunday (minus the last drive).  That defense still gives us fits even though we’ve added speed @ RB.  

hopefully Dorsey figures it out in time to make the playoffs and the make our run.

 

 

more Play-action and Josh rolling out 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Warriorspikes51

[SCBills]

I think the plan should be Cook as lead back in ‘23 after an off-season of S&C and pass pro training.   Then get with Hines and re-work that contract.  
 

Cook/Hines with a Duke Johnson type and mid/late round rookie to round out the room. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Cook and Hines should be getting a combined 20-25 touches a game 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Warriorspikes51

[DrDawkinstein]

Hines on returns was our best Offensive weapon and he didnt even have an Offensive touch at that point. The field position he was giving us was crucial.

 

Get this dude in the game plan already!

[Motorin']

The return game was the one piece that was clearly missing. Huge improvement!

 

I like what we're doing with Motor and Cook, and would like to see Hines take some McKittrick gadget plays.

 

But really need to get Knox and Shakir more involved in the passing game on a consistent basis. 

[boyst]

Any play action, even poorly executed play action is better than no play action. I don't see a team who can better us on defense if we stick to PA the rest of the season unless Miami can muster up good DL pressure without committing LB's

[wppete]

Need to use him out of the back field. Ideally in a split backfield with James Cook. Matchup nightmare. 

[FilthyBeast]

So the proverbial million dollar question is when is this staff going to utilize him in the offense and take advantage of his speed?

 

There were several plays during the Cowboys/Vikings game when they unleashed Tony Pollard down the sideline (including one for a long TD) when I said to myself why can't we ever do this?

[balln]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

So the proverbial million dollar question is when is this staff going to utilize him in the offense and take advantage of his speed?

 

There were several plays during the Cowboys/Vikings game when they unleashed Tony Pollard down the sideline (including one for a long TD) when I said to myself why can't we ever do this?

Yea. That’s a long developing play. Our OL stinks. 
 

other thing is teams play 2 deep / man underneath - which can be dicey to attack w a rb wheel 

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

So the proverbial million dollar question is when is this staff going to utilize him in the offense and take advantage of his speed?

 

There were several plays during the Cowboys/Vikings game when they unleashed Tony Pollard down the sideline (including one for a long TD) when I said to myself why can't we ever do this?

The Bills tried this against the Jets. Josh overthrew him down the sideline. They should try it again.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

52 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

His speed along the sideline on that one return was elite. 

Putting Hines and Cook on the field together could really cause some problems for defenses.....   SCREEN GAME PLEASE  

 

Mckenzie in some jet motion too.  

 

Baltimore does some pistol stuff where they will have backs on either side and the motion man jetting behind QB.  It's all weird eye candy but if you aren't prepared for it, it can be difficult to defend.  

Edited November 22, 2022 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[Jerome007]

He was impressive in returns. Plays that you know other guys would have been tackled way before. Why wouldn't it work as a running back?

[LABILLBACKER]

Using him only on returns is a colossal waste. And unlike Reid, it shouldn't take Dorsey a month to figure out how to use him on offense.  Wheelroutes, dumpoffs,  screens, slot wr? Anything Ken, figure it out  dude.

Edited November 22, 2022 by LABILLBACKER

[FilthyBeast]

3 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

The Bills tried this against the Jets. Josh overthrew him down the sideline. They should try it again.

 

And again and again quite frankly.

 

Because as teams start to key in on Diggs someone else is going to have to shine for this passing attack to truly be dangerous again and still don't trust Davis despite a solid outing against the Browns.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 minutes ago, balln said:

Yea. That’s a long developing play. Our OL stinks. 
 

other thing is teams play 2 deep / man underneath - which can be dicey to attack w a rb wheel 

 

Usually it means angle routes.  You can do a flare too where if they're in zone they're basically forced to play off of it, in which case you get 1x1s and with good blocking it can be a pretty big play with little to no complicated play design.  

[LABILLBACKER]

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Mckenzie in some jet motion too.  

 

Baltimore does some pistol stuff where they will have backs on either side and the motion man jetting behind QB.  It's all weird eye candy but if you aren't prepared for it, it can be difficult to defend.  

The only motion I want McKenzie in is off this roster.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The only motion I want McKenzie in is off this roster.

 

That is an exaggeration.  He hasn't been everything Buffalo needs of him, but as i understand hes a good teammate and has made plenty of plays for the team.  Why don't you want Davis off the roster if we're looking at players making mental mistakes?  

 

He has 4 TDs all in the RZ as of today, and our team is struggling in the red zone... You can give some of his snaps to Shakir, but hes faster and more dynamic than him as a runner after the catch.  You can give some others to hines and cook.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

His speed along the sideline on that one return was elite. 

Putting Hines and Cook on the field together could really cause some problems for defenses.....   SCREEN GAME PLEASE  

when was the last time the Bills ran a successful RB screen? I would argue it has been more than 20 years ago. I don’t get it. 

[davefan66]

58 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I think the plan should be Cook as lead back in ‘23 after an off-season of S&C and pass pro training.   Then get with Hines and re-work that contract.  
 

Cook/Hines with a Duke Johnson type and mid/late round rookie to round out the room. 

Cook getting stronger is key.  Dude is small, but that hasn’t stopped other backs.  When he hits a hole he can flat  out run.  It’s when he has to make a hole that has been a little bit of a problem, not strong enough yet and gets pushed around a bit.

 

Singletary most likely won’t be back next season based on being a FA.  Hines looks legit.  Has nice speed and looks like he can get out of trouble.  Maybe have to rework his contract?  Cook is here to stay.  And I feel Duke is serviceable enough to keep.

[Rc2catch]

I would give him McKenzies role right now. 
 

He should be in motion every single play. Rather he’s coming out of the backfield or lining up in slot. 
It was nice they used him and cook together and it looked pretty successful for cook. 
 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Yeah, the Bills coaching staff (McDermott and Dorsey) and local media talk about using Cook and Hines more like its a science experiment, in which you need test tube procedure that is 97-steps long to get him involved. 

 

Balance, game flow, script, too much on their plate. 

 

And what we've found out is that simply handing the ball off to Cook works. 

 

The same should be true of Hines. The guy has caught 236 passes in his career. This shouldn't be an impossible ask to get him the ball 4 times a game. Once a quarter. 

 

But with McDermott is always some slow, phased-approach, this step-by-step chemical equation. 

 

My fear is Hines has been identified by McDermott as a special teamer, and he's like imprisoned there. He's supposed to be more than T. Jones Part II. 

[davefan66]

2 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

when was the last time the Bills ran a successful RB screen? I would argue it has been more than 20 years ago. I don’t get it. 

Thought 20 years seemed a bit much.  Looked it up, and that’s around the Chan Gailey years.  Yep, that would be the era we last ran legit screens

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I would give him McKenzies role right now. 
 

He should be in motion every single play. Rather he’s coming out of the backfield or lining up in slot. 
It was nice they used him and cook together and it looked pretty successful for cook. 
 

This is what I'm saying. You have 4 guys (Cook, Hines, McKenzie, Shakir). 

 

Start getting them in there. 

 

Of course Diggs #1, then Davis #2, Knox #3. 

 

But just that constant eye-candy, that constant movement, backs leaking out, quicker decision making and throws. 

 

It's just so static all the time. 

[ColoradoBills]

17 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

This is what I'm saying. You have 4 guys (Cook, Hines, McKenzie, Shakir). 

 

Start getting them in there. 

 

Of course Diggs #1, then Davis #2, Knox #3. 

 

But just that constant eye-candy, that constant movement, backs leaking out, quicker decision making and throws. 

 

It's just so static all the time. 

 

Agree with all you said.  Also, each is a little different in what could be their best usage.

Should complement how to attack each opponent's weaknesses.

 

Dorsey still has a lot to learn about using what he has and mixing it up to keep the D's guessing.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

We're more like the Green Bay Packers with Rodgers and Adams. 

 

We have one WR that dominates targets and receptions. 

 

Great in the regular season, but that has fizzled in the Playoffs. 

 

The Dolphins are different because they have a consistent run-game now, and two WR aces. 

 

So, in some respects, we need to mimic the Chiefs, who get 5 WRs involved behind Kelce. The Bills get to #3 behind Diggs and Davis and can't figure out how to utilize anyone. 

[Warriorspikes51]

10 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

We're more like the Green Bay Packers with Rodgers and Adams. 

 

We have one WR that dominates targets and receptions. 

 

Great in the regular season, but that has fizzled in the Playoffs. 

 

The Dolphins are different because they have a consistent run-game now, and two WR aces. 

 

So, in some respects, we need to mimic the Chiefs, who get 5 WRs involved behind Kelce. The Bills get to #3 behind Diggs and Davis and can't figure out how to utilize anyone. 

This is a very interesting take.....I'm inclined to agree with all of it. 
 

Knox should be the #3 option. Especially with his salary.  He also warrants more looks with how he played against the Browns.
 

Shakir, Cook and Hines need to become the other options immediately. They all have good YAC ability and the Bills were supposedly focused on that coming into this season 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Warriorspikes51

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

His speed along the sideline on that one return was elite. 

Putting Hines and Cook on the field together could really cause some problems for defenses.....   SCREEN GAME PLEASE  

I’d like to see him carry the ball too. Some wheel routes

Edited November 22, 2022 by Solomon Grundy

[Iverwig]

Too bad the offensive coordinator can’t scheme him into the offense. He’s coming up on his 4th game with the Bills and they still can’t figure out how to get him touches in space.

 

No reason at all why Hines and Cook should not be on the field together more often. 

 

Yet fans want to continue to blame the receivers outside of Diggs for the offensive woes. It’s time for Dorsey to take a hard look in the mirror. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Iverwig

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, Iverwig said:

Too bad the offensive coordinator can scheme him into the offense. He’s coming up on his 4th game with the Bills and they still can’t figure out how to get him touches in space.

 

No reason at all why Hines and Cook should not be on the field together more often. 

 

Yet fans want to continue to blame the receivers outside of Diggs for the offensive woes. It’s time for Dorsey to take a hard look in the mirror. 

Our coaching staff loves to talk about how smart Hines is, how hard he works on his craft. 

 

I looked it up, as a rookie 4th Rounder, first game, 5 carries and caught 7 balls. 

 

He's in his 5th year now and with the Bills he has 2 touches in 3 games. 

 

Stuff like that doesn't add up with the Bills. 

 

 

We heard how Cook wasn't ready, didn't want to overload him. 

 

We give him the ball because the Browns can't stop the run, and poof, magic, he's good. 

 

 

The Bills coaches are too obsessed with game flow and balance and the gravitational pull of the moon. 

 

I

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Using him only on returns is a colossal waste. And unlike Reid, it shouldn't take Dorsey a month to figure out how to use him on offense.  Wheelroutes, dumpoffs,  screens, slot wr? Anything Ken, figure it out  dude.

I honestly don’t know if we’re capable of running a screen.  
 

They just end up with Allen chucking it into the dirt as the play looks like a dumpster fire. 

[HOUSE]

What the Bills are doing with Hines is not good enough,  not even close

[TheBrownBear]

The guy looks so good with the ball in his hands.  Is he at all capable of playing the slot, or is that just not in his skillset?  Hard to imagine him being that big of a drop off from McKenzie as a route runner and he's clearly better than him in space. 

 

It's honestly pretty frustrating to see his talent being wasted.  What's interesting is that Colts fans had the same complaints about his usage in Indy.  So, what is it that the coaches see that we fans aren't picking up on?

[Ta111]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Our coaching staff loves to talk about how smart Hines is, how hard he works on his craft. 

 

I looked it up, as a rookie 4th Rounder, first game, 5 carries and caught 7 balls. 

 

He's in his 5th year now and with the Bills he has 2 touches in 3 games. 

 

Stuff like that doesn't add up with the Bills. 

 

 

We heard how Cook wasn't ready, didn't want to overload him. 

 

We give him the ball because the Browns can't stop the run, and poof, magic, he's good. 

 

 

The Bills coaches are too obsessed with game flow and balance and the gravitational pull of the moon. 

 

I

Maybe, just maybe Cook is shining now because of the very thing you mentioned, they waited until he was ready.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

when was the last time the Bills ran a successful RB screen? I would argue it has been more than 20 years ago. I don’t get it. 

Chan

[Captain Hindsight]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Hines on returns was our best Offensive weapon and he didnt even have an Offensive touch at that point. The field position he was giving us was crucial.

 

Get this dude in the game plan already!

They kept having run the fake jet sweep. I'd expect one of those coming soon, maybe against NE

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, Ta111 said:

Maybe, just maybe Cook is shining now because of the very thing you mentioned, they waited until he was ready.

Maybe, but he was showing this ability early. 

 

He was 5.0 yards per carry before Cleveland. 

 

And 15 ypc before Cleveland (juiced by that 41-yarder against Green Bay). 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, davefan66 said:

Cook getting stronger is key.  Dude is small, but that hasn’t stopped other backs.  When he hits a hole he can flat  out run.  It’s when he has to make a hole that has been a little bit of a problem, not strong enough yet and gets pushed around a bit.

 

Singletary most likely won’t be back next season based on being a FA.  Hines looks legit.  Has nice speed and looks like he can get out of trouble.  Maybe have to rework his contract?  Cook is here to stay.  And I feel Duke is serviceable enough to keep.

I’m with ya.  Cook looking good. Extreme patience with the ball in his hands.  He glides out there.  While Hines explodes everywhere he goes. I love the possibilities of these two.  Hopefully Dorsey is putting some packages together for the stretch run.  
 

I’d be very happy with Duke as our RB3.  Considering our cap sitch going forward, we’re going to need good value contracts.  Solid, versatile pro that would also prevent us from using another draft pick on a RB.