Slot receiver?

[hemma]

McKenzie had 26 snaps, Shakir had 16.

The time is long since past that this needs to be, at a minimum, flipped.

McKenzie has reached the very end of a too long rope.  

He has no value and it has been obvious for a long time.

[whorlnut]

5 minutes ago, hemma said:

McKenzie had 26 snaps, Shakir had 16.

The time is long since past that this needs to be, at a minimum, flipped.

McKenzie has reached the very end of a too long rope.  

He has no value and it has been obvious for a long time.

Yep. I can’t understand how McKenzie keeps hanging on with this team.

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

 

Shakir &/or Hines may need to fill in there. Hines moved out to slot in 9 of 10 plays he was in for per Joe Bascaglia of the Athletic. 

 

Greg Cosell pointed out last Friday (on 1 Bills Live) that Dorsey doesn't help his WRs, he puts them out on an island & expects them to win 1 on 1 every time, there's no stacked or bunched formations, no picks & rub routes, no quick slants. He said Daboll mixed those things in. I watched this last game & sure enough Greg was right. Hopefully Dorsey is learning & starts scheming the slit guys open more.

Agree.

 

Diggs gets bracketed and the answer has been keep putting Diggs in his spot and make him with with routes.

 

I finally saw two plays yesterday were Diggs was put in motion to get better matchups and take teams off that bracket.  Dorsey needs to learn the nuances of scheming players open.  Floods, Stacks, Motions etc etc, Daboll vs Dorsey's route concepts and how Daboll used to attack in levels is non existence in this offense at this point.  

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

McKenzie is a decent gadget guy, that’s it. He’s not a good slot. 

 

I think he's a good option in the slot against the rate team that plays nearly 100% man to man. 

 

Really have to question his football iq and situational awareness need to play against complex defenses that switch and disguise coverage. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Yep. I can’t understand how McKenzie keeps hanging on with this team.

 

Because shakir has been worse when targeted.  

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I'd be on the phone with Cole unless Shakir can step up. Dirty is a total non-factor despite his "expanded role" in the offense. 

That safety valve is missed, badly. 

PS: Is Crowder eligible to return? 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I think he's a good option in the slot against the rate team that plays nearly 100% man to man. 

 

Really have to question his football iq and situational awareness need to play against complex defenses that switch and disguise coverage. 

 

No idea whats going on there.  He's been one of our better red zone contributors, so i wouldn't eliminate him from the game plan in the area we struggle the most.  

[SCBills]

21 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Because shakir has been worse when targeted.  

 

Whether this is true or not, I have no clue, but at least he has the potential of getting better.  

 

McKenzie is what he is, and that's quite clearly not a starting slot WR in this league.   He's a WR5/Gadget and he's occupying a space previously held by Cole Beasley aka the second most important offensive skill player of Josh Allen's career thus far. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

I'd be on the phone with Cole unless Shakir can step up. Dirty is a total non-factor despite his "expanded role" in the offense. 

That safety valve is missed, badly. 

PS: Is Crowder eligible to return? 

 

The running backs are safety valves, they have been fine in that role for the most part.  The key is throwing to them - and throwing it faster than he has the past month.

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

 

Whether this is true or not, I have no clue, but at least he has the potential of getting better.  

 

McKenzie is what he is, and that's quite clearly not a starting slot WR in this league.   He's a WR5/Gadget and he's occupying a space previously held by Cole Beasley aka the second most important offensive skill player of Josh Allen's career thus far. 

 

Statistically Shakir has secured fewer than 50% of his 15 targets with 2 drops.  

[GolfandBills]

The passing offense looks stale.  Zero creativity 

[clayboy54]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Sure….Daboll had his drawbacks.  No doubt.  But he used the slot….and that’s why this thread is about.  2 years ago, our slot WR was 2nd team all pro-  while our WR1 first team all pro. Dorsey has turned our slot position into an abyss of irrelevance.  
 

Maybe dirty, shakir and crowders injury are partly to blame, but I don’t think this is what Dorsey and McD had in mind with slot production.  1 target- 0 catches

Beasley was a special talent. He ran great routes and always found the seam. He wasn’t afraid to take the hits, although that clearly shortened his career as we all saw. Maybe Shakir has a career like that but he clearly isn’t there this season. Despite the injury woes, Crowder was good at it as well. McKenzie… not in the same conversation by any measure.

 

How can you fault a coordinator’s use of a position where you had your best guy leave, the next guy broke his leg, and the new hire hasn’t figured any of it out yet? Do you still tell Josh to throw the ball to a guy who can’t get open or any separation? Do you still game plan around guys who can’t catch? I dunno, but my guess is you don’t. That right there is what is happening.

[Success]

I'm not as down on McKenzie as some here.  He has made some big plays for us.  He is very quick, but not overpowering - there was literally nothing he could have done on that 2-point conversion yesterday.  He accelerated to the outside and that should have been enough, but a block was missed on that one & he got stuffed. He wasn't going to overpower that defender, and that's not his role or skillset.

 

I hope Crowder can come back by the end of the season. I haven't seen anything on that, but initial reports were that he wasn't done for the year.

 

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

Beasley was a special talent. He ran great routes and always found the seam. He wasn’t afraid to take the hits, although that clearly shortened his career as we all saw. Maybe Shakir has a career like that but he clearly isn’t there this season. Despite the injury woes, Crowder was good at it as well. McKenzie… not in the same conversation by any measure.

 

How can you fault a coordinator’s use of a position where you had your best guy leave, the next guy broke his leg, and the new hire hasn’t figured any of it out yet? Do you still tell Josh to throw the ball to a guy who can’t get open or any separation? Do you still game plan around guys who can’t catch? I dunno, but my guess is you don’t. That right there is what is happening.

He’s the OC.  He’s in charge of the offense.  He’s in charge of moving the chains.  It’s his job, not  Not yours.  He needs to fix it.

 

iv’e already stated that dirty, shakir and the crowder injury are partly to blame.  I didn’t put it all on him……but he’s the coach and teams have obstacles to overcome.  Overcome it Ken.  Start by playing shakir and sitting dirty down.  Put cook or Hines in the slot more often.  So far, the results have been pitiful and it’s hurting out offense

[clayboy54]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

He’s the OC.  He’s in charge of the offense.  He’s in charge of moving the chains.  It’s his job, not  Not yours.  He needs to fix it.

 

iv’e already stated that dirty, shakir and the crowder injury are partly to blame.  I didn’t put it all on him……but he’s the coach and teams have obstacles to overcome.  Overcome it Ken.  Start by playing shakir and sitting dirty down.  Put cook or Hines in the slot more often.  So far, the results have been pitiful and it’s hurting out offense

I guess at some point you start to throw crap at the wall and hope something sticks.

[NewEra]

Just now, clayboy54 said:

I guess at some point you start to throw crap at the wall and hope something sticks.

That’s what I’d hope we do….which is to give more reps to shakir or even cook/Hines.  This last game he wasn’t throwing anything at the wall.  He just avoided it

[jkeerie]

I think they may have kept yesterday's offense a bit vanilla due to the lack of practice this week and the extra stress put on the team with the snow, travel, etc.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

22 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

I think they may have kept yesterday's offense a bit vanilla due to the lack of practice this week and the extra stress put on the team with the snow, travel, etc.

 

I probably would have too.  They still looked totally out of sorts in the first half too and allen looked a lot better once he was hitting hitches and comebacks.  

[jkeerie]

6 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I probably would have too.  They still looked totally out of sorts in the first half too and allen looked a lot better once he was hitting hitches and comebacks.  

Totally agree.

[Warriorspikes51]

Shakir when called upon has looked very good.

Why is he not getting any looks.  5 targets a game seems more than reasonable.  

[Big Blitz]

This is the position that has this offense looking very different from the last 3 years.  
 

Well it’s lack of production from the position anyway.  
 

Staggering.  Beasley had over 100 targets last year and was hobbled.  
 

What are we doing?  We keeping Shakir secret until RD 2 vs the division teams?

Edited November 21, 2022 by Big Blitz

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Agree.

 

Diggs gets bracketed and the answer has been keep putting Diggs in his spot and make him with with routes.

 

I finally saw two plays yesterday were Diggs was put in motion to get better matchups and take teams off that bracket.  Dorsey needs to learn the nuances of scheming players open.  Floods, Stacks, Motions etc etc, Daboll vs Dorsey's route concepts and how Daboll used to attack in levels is non existence in this offense at this point.  

I'm shocked Dorsey doesn't use more of Daboll's formations and motion. Even his routes tend to bunch up players.  Stop wasting touches on McKenzie and full steam ahead with Hines & Shakir.

[WyoAZBillfan]

7 hours ago, clayboy54 said:

McKenzie is just another guy. Really, he’s just the class clown. The guy has nothing except speed. As an example, the 2-point play yesterday could’ve been converted if he stuck his left foot in the turf and cut it up at the 1. Instead, he doesn’t see that lane. Plus, he’s so tiny that he is afraid to take the hit. This is a terrible trait in football.

 

And for some reason, Lil Dirty loses his concentration at the most in opportune times.

If you watch that play the FB block prevented that move. 
Either way I think he’s average guy with lots of speed. 

[Turk71]

7 hours ago, Repulsif said:

Simply put, we miss Beasley

Beasley was not good last year. He was done.

They dont miss him.

What they miss is a consistent player in the slot.

[DasNootz]

7 hours ago, Repulsif said:

Simply put, we miss Beasley

Correction…..Simply put, we miss Crowder.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, Repulsif said:

Simply put, we miss Beasley

 

 

In the same regard that they missed the 2019-2020 versions of John Brown in 2021 when they had nobody to give them some speed and yards after the catch.    

 

But both Brown and Beasley late in their last seasons with the Bills were in decline and needed to be replaced with players who would be better the following season.

 

In both cases, they were not.

 

The WR corps is a shadow of what it was in 2020. 

 

 

[whorlnut]

40 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'm shocked Dorsey doesn't use more of Daboll's formations and motion. Even his routes tend to bunch up players.  Stop wasting touches on McKenzie and full steam ahead with Hines & Shakir.

Why they continue to use McKenzie is beyond me. 

38 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

Beasley was not good last year. He was done.

They dont miss him.

What they miss is a consistent player in the slot.

A “shot” Beasley is still better than a healthy McKenzie. What’s your point?

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

9 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Shakir or McKenzie need to step up. I also do not like Dorsey’s route concepts to be honest. Daboll being gone really has hurt the design of the offense. 

What concepts don’t you like?

If that’s the case, don’t you think the the lack of a true slot WR has had an effect on these concepts and game plans? Can’t make Shakir something he’s not right now.  We know McKenzie is not a true slot.   Also, Beasley was really great 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

There are a couple of FAs that can play the slot. Adam Humphries/Tavon Austin. Guy that have done it before and might bring the veteran craftiness that Beasley had. Assuming the Beasley ship is completely sailed. You also could bring in a guy like Will Fuller to play the outside with Davis and slide Diggs in there more. I like Shakir but obviously the guy can’t get on the field. Cook had shown flashes for a month but until yesterday the coaches couldn’t tell. I’d say try Hines in there full time but I can’t see them trying that either.

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I agree. I can’t for the life of me figure out how McKenzie continues to get opportunities with this team. I hated the off-season extension because I thought there was an obvious need to upgrade. I think Beane and McD need to stop with this “great locker room guy” BS and start getting better players for the offense. We have the leaders in the locker room that can handle a more volatile personality. 

 

8 hours ago, whorlnut said:

McKenzie is a decent gadget guy, that’s it. He’s not a good slot. 

 

8 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I think it has a lot to do with them hoping McKenzie could be beasley’s replacement. He’s nowhere near that level. Not even close. It was a bad miscalculation on Beane’s behalf. The really frustrating thing is the lack of usage for Shakir. He Is a bigger guy, he’s fast, way more physical. He’s been in the system for a while now…give him more burn. He’s the unknown, while we all know what we have in McKenzie at this point. 

 

7 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Yep. I can’t understand how McKenzie keeps hanging on with this team.

 

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

He’s the OC.  He’s in charge of the offense.  He’s in charge of moving the chains.  It’s his job, not  Not yours.  He needs to fix it.

 

iv’e already stated that dirty, shakir and the crowder injury are partly to blame.  I didn’t put it all on him……but he’s the coach and teams have obstacles to overcome.  Overcome it Ken.  Start by playing shakir and sitting dirty down.  Put cook or Hines in the slot more often.  So far, the results have been pitiful and it’s hurting out offense

 

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

That’s what I’d hope we do….which is to give more reps to shakir or even cook/Hines.  This last game he wasn’t throwing anything at the wall.  He just avoided it

This is epic.  I roll my eyes at one of your typical “I hope Beane doesn’t do this” posts.  You then stalk my profile and vomit and eye roll my recent posts….both of which, you agree with.  Get McKenzie out and Shakir in.  
 

So childish it’s hilarious.  When you see red.  Take your pills.  Don’t stalk and react.  Makes you look even dumber

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

 

 

 

 

 

This is epic.  I roll my eyes at one of your typical “I hope Beane doesn’t do this” posts.  You then stalk my profile and vomit and eye roll my recent posts….both of which, you agree with.  Get McKenzie out and Shakir in.  
 

So childish it’s hilarious.  When you see red.  Take your pills.  Don’t stalk and react.  Makes you look even dumber

What is your deal?  Talk about stalking yet that’s all you ever do with me. Don’t throw rocks if you live in a glass house. Keep my name out of your mouth and I’m more than happy to do the same. 

[Playoffs?]

I want to see Hines get a fair shake on offense. Play him like McCaffrey and line him up as a receiver. Just get the ball in his hands more!

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

What is your deal?  Talk about stalking yet that’s all you ever do with me. Don’t throw rocks if you live in a glass house. Keep my name out of your mouth and I’m more than happy to do the same. 

I read the board a lot.  Your negativity slanted posts stick out like a sore thumb.  Your like @ScottLaw ‘s son.  “Beane should’ve done this”.  “Beane should’ve done that”.  “I said this would happen, Beane should’ve listened to me” wah wah Beane wah wah

[whorlnut]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I read the board a lot.  Your negativity slanted posts stick out like a sore thumb.  Your like @ScottLaw ‘s son.  “Beane should’ve done this”.  “Beane should’ve done that”.  “I said this would happen, Beane should’ve listened to me” wah wah Beane wah wah

Good for you. You don’t like it don’t comment. Simple as that. We all have opinions. Sorry mine don’t match yours.  Don’t need to comment negativity and snarky remarks every time I post. And who’s the stalker again?

 

Its a free message board for fans. I’m a fan. I have an opinion. It has nothing to do with you.

Edited November 22, 2022 by whorlnut

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

Beasley was not good last year. He was done.

They dont miss him.

What they miss is a consistent player in the slot.

People seem to be confusing 2021 Beasley with 2020 Beasley quite often around here 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

10 minutes ago, Playoffs? said:

I want to see Hines get a fair shake on offense. Play him like McCaffrey and line him up as a receiver. Just get the ball in his hands more!

I will be surprised if that isn’t the plan…he’s learning an offense with totally different verbiage than the system he was in previously and it’s much more difficult to just come right in and play right away than someone like Jeff Wilson 

 

[BillsMontreal]

If we talk about a real slot receiver, we could go with Mckenzie-Hines-Cooks-and all....but Sharkir is a speedy WR with good hands. He is our best option there. He has all the tools. He needs all the reps in practice with Allen. Just give him all the reps and they could be on the same page really fast.

[Augie]

9 hours ago, Repulsif said:

Simply put, we miss Beasley

 

The Beasley of old. If he could still play, he would still be playing.

[NewEra]

42 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Good for you. You don’t like it don’t comment. Simple as that. We all have opinions. Sorry mine don’t match yours.  Don’t need to comment negativity and snarky remarks every time I post. And who’s the stalker again?

 

Its a free message board for fans. I’m a fan. I have an opinion. It has nothing to do with you.

I haven’t commented on 99% of your posts. But ok.  
 

you constantly like to impose your negative outlook on our all world GM……expect people not to like it.  Every GM makes mistakes….dwelling on them as a fan is about as immature thing you can do as a sports fan.   Especially a GM that is regarded as elite among peers. But couch guy you knows better.  Yeah…..

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

I haven’t commented on 99% of your posts. But ok.  
 

you constantly like to impose your negative outlook on our all world GM……expect people not to like it.  Every GM makes mistakes….dwelling on them as a fan is about as immature thing you can do as a sports fan.   Especially a GM that is regarded as elite among peers. But couch guy you knows better.  Yeah…..

More fake news. I’ve said in other posts that Beane is the best gm in football. I think the problem is McD, “but ok”…

[BananaB]

I’d like to say I’m surprised Shakir hasn’t stepped into that roll yet but I know that’s how McD works. I thought McKenzie could step in for Beas but he hasn’t. We are getting nothing from the slot right now and it’s gotta change. McKenzie earned the roll in practice but hasn’t done anything during games to keep it. It’s definitely time for a change.