Commitment to the run

[JMM]

I will continue to beat this dead horse. Did you see the Commanders last night? 50 carries, only averaged 3.7 yds, they continued to run. They committed to it. Yes, it was part of a strategy to keep an explosive Philly offense off the field.  Yes they don't have a Josh Allen. It doesn't matter. You need a commitment to the run. I know this will bring out the " it's a passing league,  you have Allen, you don't need to run!" comments. 

I watched the best pure passer ever his whole career, Marino. He never had a good run game. He got to one SB, never sniffed another one. I watched Elway. He never won a SB to late in his career.  What was the key those 2 years? The run game! I see McDermott for 3 years state we need to run more, we need to commit it to it, yet we don't. Who is the HC?? Is he in charge overall of what the team does or not. RUN THE DAMN BALL!

 

[YoloinOhio]

Might as well do it this week with the weather and the Browns cannot stop the run. 

[SoCal Deek]

And when it doesn’t work and the Bills repeatedly go three and out….then what? This is not a running football team, and our offensive line cannot move a pile to save their lives! Now that doesn’t mean you pass every down, but the late developing runs off the shotgun are very inconsistent and predictable. 

[Greg S]

We just don't have a good enough OL to do that. Josh covers up a lot of their poor play with his ability to run and escape the rush. That is the main problem I have with Beane. I hope that he makes it a priority this offseason with the draft and FA. 

[JMM]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And when it doesn’t work and the Bills repeatedly go three and out….then what? This is not a running football team, and our offensive line cannot move a pile to save their lives! Now that doesn’t mean you pass every down, but the late developing runs off the shotgun are very inconsistent and predictable. 

I don't think you understand what COMITTMENT to the run means. And how we end up in the same predicament for the last several years. What I give to have a Parcells in his prime coaching this team!! He understood.

[LabattBlue]

Where is the Chiefs commitment to the run?  The Rams last year?   Almost all of Brady’s years with the Pats?

 

This notion that there has to be a commitment to the run game in order to succeed is nonsense. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, JMM said:

I don't think you understand what COMITTMENT to the run means. And how we end up in the same predicament for the last several years. What I give to have a Parcells in his prime coaching this team!! He understood.

We each have a different interpretation of COMMITMENT. You’re free to have yours. I won’t take it from you. 

[JMM]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

We each have a different interpretation of COMMITMENT. You’re free to have yours. I won’t take it from you. 

Your interpretation is try it, if it doesn't work much you give up on it. That is NOT a commitment to the run by definition. You don't have to have a great running game to be committed to it. It doesn't even have to be successful most of the time. I don't understand why people can't UNDERSTAND  that.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, JMM said:

Your interpretation is try it, if it doesn't work much you give up on it. That is NOT a commitment to the run by definition. You don't have to have a great running game to be committed to it. It doesn't even have to be successful most of the time. I don't understand why people can't UNDERSTAND  that.

I can see you’re very committed to your idea of commitment. 😉 Again… not trying to take that from you. I just don’t think that’s how this roster was built. 

[JMM]

15 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Where is the Chiefs commitment to the run?  The Rams last year?   Almost all of Brady’s years with the Pats?

 

This notion that there has to be a commitment to the run game in order to succeed is nonsense. 

Really? This is what I mean. You might want to check the  Chiefs run stats vs pass this year. Educate yourself. Pat's had a tremendous commitment to the run beginning of their dynasty then switched to short passing game which was almost like extended handoffs with the accuracy of the goat.

[HoofHearted]

22 minutes ago, JMM said:

I will continue to beat this dead horse. Did you see the Commanders last night? 50 carries, only averaged 3.7 yds, they continued to run. They committed to it. Yes, it was part of a strategy to keep an explosive Philly offense off the field.  Yes they don't have a Josh Allen. It doesn't matter. You need a commitment to the run. I know this will bring out the " it's a passing league,  you have Allen, you don't need to run!" comments. 

I watched the best pure passer ever his whole career, Marino. He never had a good run game. He got to one SB, never sniffed another one. I watched Elway. He never won a SB to late in his career.  What was the key those 2 years? The run game! I see McDermott for 3 years state we need to run more, we need to commit it to it, yet we don't. Who is the HC?? Is he in charge overall of what the team does or not. RUN THE DAMN BALL!

 

 

50 carries a game isn't what you want either, though I understand your point. Our problem is we have no balance - and when I say balance I mean from a touches standpoint from our skill players. Our offense runs through Josh and Diggs - that's it. If we spread the ball around more it would alleviate a lot of the pressure on those two guys and make us a hell of a lot more efficient as an offense and forces defenses to defend the entire field. We will never be a dominant run offense - we're not built for it - so game plan around that. Use the screen game as an extension of the run game. It seems we're extremely reluctant to do so even though we have two guys who should be really good at it in Diggs and McKenzie with how twitchy they are.

 

One of my favorite Mike Leach quotes about balanced football:

"Now, what is balanced is when you have five skill positions ... if all five of them are contributing to the offensive effort in a somewhat equal fashion, then that's balanced, but this notion that, if you hand it to one guy 50 percent of the time and then you throw it to a combination of two guys the other 50 percent, that you're really balanced ... you probably pat yourself on the back and tell yourself that, and people have been doing that for decades. Well, you're delusional."  

[zow2]

If we had Nick Chubb and he got a couple 2-yard carries, the Bills would abandon the run.  

 

The Commander last night has 40+ runs and the longest one was like 11 yards.  Sometimes you just gotta commit,,,and don't turn it over! 

[LabattBlue]

1 minute ago, JMM said:

Really? This is what I mean. You might want to check the  Chiefs run stats vs pass this year. Educate yourself. Pat's had a tremendous commitment to the run beginning of their dynasty then switched to short passing game which was almost like extended handoffs with the accuracy of the goat.

So now a short passing game equals commitment to the run?  Keep on moving the goalposts.  I’m done with this ridiculous thread. 

[Solomon Grundy]

32 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And when it doesn’t work and the Bills repeatedly go three and out….then what? This is not a running football team, and our offensive line cannot move a pile to save their lives! Now that doesn’t mean you pass every down, but the late developing runs off the shotgun are very inconsistent and predictable. 

I don't believe the OP meant to run the ball 3 downs consecutively. What he's saying, probably, is that you don't have to throw the ball to gain 2 yards on consecutive downs. The offensive line doesn't need to push a pile. Sometimes it just needs to open a crease for the RB to sliver through. I think we saw some of those types of runs in the Commanders game. Balance is needed when you open up a 14 point lead and all your team has to do is move the football and burn some clock. Incomplete passes stop the clock involuntarily. There's too much onus, IMO, for Josh Allen to carry the offense. I say they should spread the wealth

[JMM]

2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I don't believe the OP meant to run the ball 3 downs consecutively. What he's saying, probably, is that you don't have to throw the ball to gain 2 yards on consecutive downs. The offensive line doesn't need to push a pile. Sometimes it just needs to open a crease for the RB to sliver through. I think we saw some of those types of runs in the Commanders game. Balance is needed when you open up a 14 point lead and all your team has to do is move the football and burn some clock. Incomplete passes stop the clock involuntarily. There's too much onus, IMO, for Josh Allen to carry the offense. I say they should spread the wealth

Again commitment to the run is just that. It doesn't even mean short term success. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I don't want to commit to it - between the 20s we have mostly shredded teams.  We suck in the red zone, and we're dead last in turnovers.  Figuring out how to run the ball would do wonders for getting 7 instead of... 3 or 0.  

[All_Pro_Bills]

Commitment to the run needs to be combined with capability which means when you need it you can do it.  Can the Bills run the ball effectively?  Sometimes they can and other times they can't like the delays out of shotgun which should be torn out of the play book.  The run game is inconsistent and ultimately unreliable.  But an effective run game when you need it can control the ball and the clock along with opening up the passing game by forcing the D to respect the run, bring down the safeties, keep the pass rush honest, and freeze the linebackers a split second from dropping into their zones.  Right now the defense is thinking pass all the way on every play and based on tendencies and stats they're guessing right the majority of the time.  You make them think and that's when they make mistakes in coverage and reaction.  But the Bills make it way too easy on every opponent.

Edited November 15, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

33 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Where is the Chiefs commitment to the run?  The Rams last year?   Almost all of Brady’s years with the Pats?

 

This notion that there has to be a commitment to the run game in order to succeed is nonsense. 

Brady more often than not had a strong running game and defense.

[LABILLBACKER]

The whole idea of increasing our currently mediocre run game is not about commitment. It's about taking pressure off Josh Allen. It's about removing the ideal that Josh Allen has to be 100% of the offense.  It's about making teams guess whether it's a pass or run play.  No one is asking the offense to run 40-50 times per game.  But until Sean & Brandon lock themselves in a meeting room and decide the value of a better run blocking OL and speed RB's, nothing will change. It's time for Brandon Beane to stand up to McDermott and say enough is enough. 

[JoshAllin]

You don't destroy 4 years of dominating offense by committing to something that will slow it down

[JMM]

https://mobile.twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1592540036750245892

 

Hmm, this guy know anything???

[bobobonators]

So many of these posts are reactionary week to week. The Commanders ran it 200x bc they have Heineke at QB. Don’t overthink it. 
 

We can cherry pick examples all day. Want an example? The Chiefs under Reid and Mahomes barely run and they continue to dominate. AFC championship games. Super Bowl. Etc. 
 

And yeh its a passing league. 
 

The key is being able to run the ball when you have to - short yardage. And we’ve struggled there. Likely bc of our OL not being dominant. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

And when it doesn’t work and the Bills repeatedly go three and out….then what? This is not a running football team, and our offensive line cannot move a pile to save their lives! Now that doesn’t mean you pass every down, but the late developing runs off the shotgun are very inconsistent and predictable. 

Yea seriously…it’s turnovers killing drives not 3 and outs anyway.  Gotta clean those up.  

[Einstein]

8 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

And when it doesn’t work and the Bills repeatedly go three and out….then what? This is not a running football team, and our offensive line cannot move a pile to save their lives! Now that doesn’t mean you pass every down, but the late developing runs off the shotgun are very inconsistent and predictable. 

 

I just mentioned this in another thread, but our run blocking is so bad that running the ball is often a waste of a down.

 

We ran the ball 8 times in the second half and 5 of those 8 runs went for 1 yard or less.

 

You can’t put your offense into 3rd and long over and over just because you want to “commit” to the run.

 

I like a good lasagna but I know my wife is not good at making it. She has tried many many times over the past decade. I have no interest in wasting more dinners on lasagna when she cooks other things well. 

[bobobonators]

Its also crazy how we score 30 points and everyone is yelling what is wrong with the offense. Unreal. Some of you are acting like we got shut out. 
 

How about the “great” defense prevent a 17pt lead from evaporating at home. 

[JMM]

9 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

So many of these posts are reactionary week to week. The Commanders ran it 200x bc they have Heineke at QB. Don’t overthink it. 
 

We can cherry pick examples all day. Want an example? The Chiefs under Reid and Mahomes barely run and they continue to dominate. AFC championship games. Super Bowl. Etc. 
 

And yeh its a passing league. 
 

The key is being able to run the ball when you have to - short yardage. And we’ve struggled there. Likely bc of our OL not being dominant. 

Being able to run the ball...hmm. Does that take COMITTEMENT  to it?? It's just amazing. Anyone that has played or coached the game would understand what I am saying. Running the football is about ATTITUDE. It's about making a commitment to it. Letting your O line get into a rhythm and believing in it. It's funny, McDermott has stressed this for the last two years, the need for it. But...what the hell does he know....

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

We actually tried to run it early in the second half. Very predictable runs on first down and the vikes run blitzed and it put us in second long all second half. 
 

I would prefer just a lot more play action on first down especially. Then sneak some runs in here and there.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

9 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

And when it doesn’t work and the Bills repeatedly go three and out….then what? This is not a running football team, and our offensive line cannot move a pile to save their lives! Now that doesn’t mean you pass every down, but the late developing runs off the shotgun are very inconsistent and predictable. 

What the heck does a 3rd-7 mean to the Bills?

 

Allen converted on back to back 3-15, 3-16’s.

 

Oh no, it’s 2nd-9, let’s get it to 3rd-manageable.

 

That’s Jauron, that’s Marrone. 

[HOUSE]

At this point I will try anything...

Move Dawson Knox to Fullback

 

Go for it...geeez

[frostbitmic]

We are committed to the run, Josh is our run game.

[realtruelove]

The strategy is not to commit to the run but commit to run the clock when in the fourth quarter and a two score lead.  1st objective is to protect the ball, second objective is keep the clock running as your opponent has less and less time to mount a comeback.  When you have your opponent on the ropes, you don't reward them by throwing incomplete passes to stop the clock and interceptions that result in zero points.    

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 minutes ago, JMM said:

Being able to run the ball...hmm. Does that take COMITTEMENT  to it?? It's just amazing. Anyone that has played or coached the game would understand what I am saying. Running the football is about ATTITUDE. It's about making a commitment to it. Letting your O line get into a rhythm and believing in it. It's funny, McDermott has stressed this for the last two years, the need for it. But...what the hell does he know....

The only way running the football is successful for us is when the defense is selling out to stop the pass…Minnesota murdered us on obvious running downs in the second half

[gobilz]

It’s not 1960

[FilthyBeast]

9 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Where is the Chiefs commitment to the run?  The Rams last year?   Almost all of Brady’s years with the Pats?

 

This notion that there has to be a commitment to the run game in order to succeed is nonsense. 

 

Both the Chiefs and Rams were able to run when they needed to during their SB winning seasons which is what this team has pretty much also publicly said needs to be done. (i.e. not running the ball more, but getting more out their running game when they do).

 

Also looking back at the Patriots, they actually had some pretty strong running games even if by committee, particularly in Brady's earlier years when they leaned more on dominant defense/ST and efficient ball control type offense.

 

But at the end of the day I still have no problem with this being a pass first team as they should be, it's just sad that big runs from the RB's are few and far between and they can't seem to convert a short yardage play if their life depended on it.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

I just mentioned this in another thread, but our run blocking is so bad that running the ball is often a waste of a down.

 

We ran the ball 8 times in the second half and 5 of those 8 runs went for 1 yard or less.

 

You can’t put your offense into 3rd and long over and over just because you want to “commit” to the run.

 

I like a good lasagna but I know my wife is not good at making it. She has tried many many times over the past decade. I have no interest in wasting more dinners on lasagna when she cooks other things well. 

I’ll make you a good lasagna! 😉

And regarding the football , you are correct. The Bills offensive line is terrible at run blocking. I was watching the Washington line and TEs totally collapse the Eagles to one side last night. The Eagles vaunted front seven literally looked like bowling pins going down all in unison. I cannot recall the Bills OLine ever doing that. 

[Augie]

Words like commitment and execution can take on different meanings. John McKay taught me that.  😋

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Augie said:

Words like commitment and execution can take on different meanings. John McKay taught me that.  😋

Funny….My ex-wife taught me that. 

[T master]

10 hours ago, JMM said:

I will continue to beat this dead horse. Did you see the Commanders last night? 50 carries, only averaged 3.7 yds, they continued to run. They committed to it. Yes, it was part of a strategy to keep an explosive Philly offense off the field.  Yes they don't have a Josh Allen. It doesn't matter. You need a commitment to the run. I know this will bring out the " it's a passing league,  you have Allen, you don't need to run!" comments. 

I watched the best pure passer ever his whole career, Marino. He never had a good run game. He got to one SB, never sniffed another one. I watched Elway. He never won a SB to late in his career.  What was the key those 2 years? The run game! I see McDermott for 3 years state we need to run more, we need to commit it to it, yet we don't. Who is the HC?? Is he in charge overall of what the team does or not. RUN THE DAMN BALL!

 

 

MY GOD SOMEONE GETS IT !! Sure Josh is great & i'm very glad the Bills have him but there is more to it than just him !! 

 

Our Bills seem to abandon the run way to easily I don't know if that's Josh Or Dorsey but in the first half of the game the other night the run game was doing pretty good & you go out & bring in people like Cook, Johnson, Hines, Gilliam, to match up with Motor so USE THEM !! 

 

Early this year they were using Gilliam in a 2 back set & passing more to Morris (which has great hands) & Motor was being Motor but the minute it doesn't work on a couple of plays ABANDON SHIP !! 

 

Morris, Knox, Sweeney, Johnson, Gilliam, Cook (to a point) have been total none factors for more than a couple of weeks now i feel they have the weapons they just are set on a couple of players to get the job done & need to utilize more than just 3 that are the go to's ...

[CEN-CAL17]

…..and quit limiting Cook to sweeps or tosses!

 

Anyone who watched Georgia play the last couple years knows Cook hits the holes fast if they are there, and before you know it he’s past the second level.

 

Dorsey only calls his number on perimeter runs. 

[MPT]

To me, it's about when they decide to run. Our offensive line doesn't get any movement so when we line up on 3rd & 2 and it's an obvious run down they always get stuffed. Stop running in those situations!

 

We get chunk runs when the defense is expecting the pass or at least accounting for it. Run more in those situations!