Defense vs Green Bay and their performance

[uninja]

Classic bend/don’t break. Let ‘em chew up time, get yards but deny them points or force them to settle for FGs. 
 

Also think GB was trying to run us out of the nickel D but we refused to budge because it was doing exactly what the Bills wanted.

[Einstein]

Just took a gander at the Chiefs forum.

 

They're convinced that the Packers defense  found out how to stop Allen & Co and they’re going to copy it in the playoffs

[Amarillo Bills Fan]

Milano and Phillips were our top defensive players last night.  Milano was all over the field making tackles.

 

I especially liked when Phillips laid a hit on an rb.  It's like the rb hit a concrete wall.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Call me crazy but after the first half it seemed like they really weren’t offering up much effort. It honestly seems like the whole team was screwing around a little bit in the second half and I think that nonsense with Alexander got to them.

[Big Turk]

Analytically speaking:

 

 

[Jauronimo]

Just now, Einstein said:

Just took a gander at the Chiefs forum.

 

They're convinced that the Packers defense  found out how to stop Allen & Co and they’re going to copy it in the playoffs

Giving up 24 points in the first half and losing by two scores is a hell of a blue print.  I hope they try it.

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, Amarillo Bills Fan said:

Milano and Phillips were our top defensive players last night.  Milano was all over the field making tackles.

 

I especially liked when Phillips laid a hit on an rb.  It's like the rb hit a concrete wall.

330 pounds of shoulder stopping him dead. 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

Giving up 24 points in the first half and losing by two scores is a hell of a blue print.  I hope they try it.

 

Exactly.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

330 pounds of shoulder stopping him dead. 

 

He did that downfield to one of their TE's and I thought he may have concussed him...dude came off the field and seemed hurt after the play.

[BillyBilliams]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Just took a gander at the Chiefs forum.

 

They're convinced that the Packers defense  found out how to stop Allen & Co and they’re going to copy it in the playoffs

 

Because Kansas City is a rushing juggernaut that we need to watch out for.  Nothing says we're scared like CEH just pounding us.

[SectionC3]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

There was definitely an element of letting the Packers kill their own time too. I said it at Half Time in the GDT. They were 17 down and their scoring drive took 8 and a half minutes. Was going to be hard at that rate for them to close the gap. 

 

I think the Bills were fine with them being run heavy but they will have wanted to be better in terms of their run defense. They didn't need to go to more 3 linebacker sets or a bigger personnel grouping or bring a safety up. The tacklers just needed to make the plays that were there ti be made at and around the line.

 

Agreed.  There was a rope a dope element to last night, too.  I think we traded field goals to start the second half, at the expense of about 10 minutes of clock.  Sitting (standing) in the stadium I figured they either hate their receivers, were terrified of Allen, or were gambling that eventually Jones would get loose and bust a long one.  (A different opponent might have made me question whether the stuff is out to lunch, but LaFleur is no dummy.)

17 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

There was a lot of poor tackleing for sure.  Edmunds was knocked downfield 5 yards a number of times.  He wraps the runners up, but he doesn't deliver the blow to stop them.  Thats the wrap I see on him.

I don’t think Edmunds was great last night, but that was big boy football and he was part of a lot of collisions.  That kind of violence does not lend itself to a perfect game. 

[blacklabel]

They seemed fine to give up yards and then tighten up near their own end. That ol' bend but don't break. They also prefer having Taron Johnson out there over Tyrel Dodson. I said it in another thread but Taron is the most experienced secondary player aside from Poyer so that's probably one of several factors as to why they stuck with nickel all night. 

 

GB and Aaron Jones are also pretty good at running the ball. They probably wanted to take a deep shot off play action after so many handoffs but it looked like the Bills never really fully stacked the box to give them that type of chance. Guarding against the big play is basically the hallmark of McDermott's defense. 

 

I hope Poyer is alright but he's also super beat up this season. Feels like one more solid hit could send him to IR for the year. I see a lot of folks saying Beane should send a late rounder to Atlanta to get Dean Marlowe back, sounds good to me. Even if Poyer is good I'd think an insurance policy of some sort would be good. I wonder if they'd consider trying Xavier Rhodes there or something? Probably not, I'm just spitballin'. 

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I get this point, but I have a hard time thinking McD and Frazier were actually content with letting them rip off 5 to 10 yard runs every play.

 

I assume they’d rather let the offense have the 7 minute drives than the defense.

 

Yea I agree. I think the 7 yards a carry or whatever it was will have been a disappointment to the coaches. 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

He did that downfield to one of their TE's and I thought he may have concussed him...dude came off the field and seemed hurt after the play.

He’s playing like a man possessed. 
A. He’s happy being back, and Frazier knows how to use him and surround him with talent. 

B. He’s finally healthy again this year (not counting the brief hammy lay off)

C. He’s a big man playing for his last (final?) contract and that made him get in shape and stay motivated. 
D. All of the above. 

[3rdnlng]

Thank you GB for running your 10 minute offense down by 17 points in the 2nd half. 

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I agree. I think the 7 yards a carry or whatever it was will have been a disappointment to the coaches. 

it’s never the goal to allow 7 per carry 

 

but when missing 3 elite players in the secondary, and protecting a 3 score lead, I’m sure they weren’t losing too much sleep about it. You keep the safeties back protecting the big play and if you give up a couple 10 yard runs so be it. 

[CSBill]

Simple answer: They were outnumbering us in the box, and we were fine with that as it allowed them to be slow and methodical, and we kept everything in front of us. Minus the long TD in the 4th Quarter.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by CSBill

[Ethan in Cleveland]

47 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Has anyone watched the game again yet? Curious to hear what you noticed on second watch (or even first watch) about the defense. 
 

Perhaps i’m a bit spoiled but we are not used to seeing this elite defense give up over 200 yards rushing and over 6 yards per play this season. Green Bay also won Time of Possession by 7 minutes. 

 

Did Green Bay exploit a weakness in our defense or was it something else? This year, we typically stop the run even in nickel.

 

Go Bills!

 

.

Getting gashed on the ground in a game or two happens almost every year to this McD defense. Its really hard to explain.

Go back to year 1 and the Saints, last year against the Colts and Patriots, and now this game. 

He usually gets things corrected and they have had some great rush defense games too.

[colin]

as bad as the run d looked, given the score, time left, and where the ball was on the pitch, the D did well enough all considered.

 

once again, i think the issue w the team is the sloppiness w the ball on O.

 

if we stay healthy and get that sorted, this is going down as an all time team.

[Big Turk]

19 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Giving up 24 points in the first half and losing by two scores is a hell of a blue print.  I hope they try it.

 

Maybe they saw how giving up a big lead worked for the Bengals in the AFCCG and want to try their luck at it...

[BillyBilliams]

They stayed in Nickel and didn't put 3 linebackers on the field.  That's why the running game was successful (as well as the missed tackles).  They defended against the pass up 17, and the Packers effectively played the game like they were up 17.

[Livinginthepast]

I got the impression that the Bills were just fine with the Packers wasting time and running the ball. They were up by 2 scores. It was like Ali's rope a dope vs Foreman. The GB strategy to grind out clock while taking forever to score was absolutely bizarre to me. I think their coach had prematurely given up at halftime. In addition when you saw what Rodgers could do against that young Bills secondary (those two deep TDs) the decision becomes even weirder. I think that the Packers did exploit the Bills weakness and their backs did well getting that yardage but it would have made way more sense  (and have been much more tedious to watch, if the Packers had have been leading the game).

[Jauronimo]

23 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:

 

Because Kansas City is a rushing juggernaut that we need to watch out for.  Nothing says we're scared like CEH just pounding us.

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=345053&page=61

 

Holy *****, Chiefs fans are delusional.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

This is Phillips every game seemingly… just drops his shoulder and then pounds his chest after someone else brings down the ball carrier. 

 

 He did have 2 massive hits downfield on ball carriers. Showed really good hustle for a 330 pound man.

 

 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 He did have 2 massive hits downfield on ball carriers. Showed really good hustle for a 330 pound man.

 

 

 

 

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

7 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

 

 

 

 Yup, that was one of them.

 

 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Yup, that was one of them.

 

 

 

Can't find the other one but he leveled that dude...

[WotAGuy]

If you read the National and Green Bay press about the game, it’s universally about the Bills being dominant in the game. The rushing yards by Green Bay are just a curiosity. 
 

If you look at the stats, it’s hard to believe Buffalo won.
 

The Bills are so close to being a perfect team, that every imperfection looks glaring. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Can't find the other one but he leveled that dude...

 

 Yeah, it was deep in Buffalo territory, I believe in the 3rd. They were going the same direction as the 1st quarter.

 

 

1 minute ago, WotAGuy said:

If you read the National and Green Bay press about the game, it’s universally about the Bills being dominant in the game. The rushing yards by Green Bay are just a curiosity. 
 

If you look at the stats, it’s hard to believe Buffalo won.
 

The Bills are so close to being a perfect team, that every imperfection looks glaring. 

 

 Just like if you looked at the stats of the Miami game, you would've had a hard time believing they won. It's not how many yards you have, it's what you do with those yards.

 

. New England's defense did the same thing during their Super Bowl years, gave up alot between the 20s, but usually finished near the top in points allowed per game. 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

it’s never the goal to allow 7 per carry 

 

but when missing 3 elite players in the secondary, and protecting a 3 score lead, I’m sure they weren’t losing too much sleep about it. You keep the safeties back protecting the big play and if you give up a couple 10 yard runs so be it. 

 

I agree with that. They obviously were not that concerned because they stayed in their defense and didn't seek to change anything. They felt comfortable, rightly, with letting the Packers run themselves out of time defending a big lead. But I still think in the film sessions this morning there will be a lot of talk about correcting tackling technique. 

[NoSaint]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with that. They obviously were not that concerned because they stayed in their defense and didn't seek to change anything. They felt comfortable, rightly, with letting the Packers run themselves out of time defending a big lead. But I still think in the film sessions this morning there will be a lot of talk about correcting tackling technique. 

for sure. Schematically it still worked but that doesn’t mean it was optimal execution. That said it likely underscores just how correct the style of play was as even with sub optimal execution the result was a two score win with no real pressure or pain.

[Simon]

3 hours ago, Amarillo Bills Fan said:

Milano and Phillips were our top defensive players last night.

 

The All-22 might end up showing differently but I did not think Phillips had a good game.

When he wasn't getting washed out, he was frequently taking himself out of gaps with the same kind of selfish play that had the Bills letting him walk a couple years ago.

[Bills2022]

The defense gets a B minus.  They can't play that way and beat the Chiefs or Eagles, but as long as they get the run defense fixed they should be fine.  Let's face it the Bills, Chiefs and Eagles are now all on the same level.  Not much separating them.

 

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=345053&page=61

 

Holy *****, Chiefs fans are delusional.

 

WTF did I just read?

 

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

The All-22 might end up showing differently but I did not think Phillips had a good game.

When he wasn't getting washed out, he was frequently taking himself out of gaps with the same kind of selfish play that had the Bills letting him walk a couple years ago.

 

I wondered about that.

 

Milano in his post-game presser said something to the effect of "we'll have to watch the tape and see who wasn't maintaining their gap" and added that he knew he'd made a couple of mistakes.  My eyes aren't fast enough to pick that out on the TV broadcast but I had that same thought.

 

Phillips did have a couple plays where he leveled the back, but he was on the field for 36 snaps and had 2 tackles.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Beck Water

[NewEra]

They ran because they wanted to preserve their QB.  If they passed more, he probably would’ve been broken in half.  Our DL pass rush was wrecking their OL 

[Simon]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

WTF did I just read?

 

 

I wondered about that.

 

Milano in his post-game presser said something to the effect of "we'll have to watch the tape and see who wasn't maintaining their gap" and added that he knew he'd made a couple of mistakes.  My eyes aren't fast enough to pick that out on the TV broadcast but I had that same thought.

 

It's probably not fair to single him out because the entire DL was guilty of it most of the night.

Everybody wanted to give Aaron a primetime smooch.

[Billz4ever]

14 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

WTF did I just read?

 

 

I wondered about that.

 

Milano in his post-game presser said something to the effect of "we'll have to watch the tape and see who wasn't maintaining their gap" and added that he knew he'd made a couple of mistakes.  My eyes aren't fast enough to pick that out on the TV broadcast but I had that same thought.

 

Phillips did have a couple plays where he leveled the back, but he was on the field for 36 snaps and had 2 tackles.

Gap discipline appeared to be lacking on several of the long runs from what I could see.  It appeared as though most of the line was more intent on getting up field to rush the passer than stay and home in their gap assignments and plug the holes. Hopefully it was just rust from the bye, but when a team is running like that on you, it all starts at the point of attack and if the D-linemen are essentially taking themselves out of the play because they didn't stay home, that makes it easy for the O-line to get into the LBs and secondary, where only bad things are going to happen.

[Freak-O]

The Bills were up quite a lot early and the rest of the game they let the Packers more or less run out the clock. It was an off game and they still won easily. 

[Mango]

Let me start by saying that the D didn’t play great or even good. They especially struggled on outside runs and screens. 

 

 But I do think the offense holds some of the blame. They just couldn’t ice the game and force the Packers to try and throw the ball more. I think Allen knew it and that’s why he was forcing too many balls.

 

Ultimately the Bills committed to not letting Rodgers get rolling. Sort of the inverse of not letting Lamar get going on the ground. 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

11 hours ago, zow2 said:

It was disappointing.  I don't really want to hear about how great the "Number 1" defense is when a team you know will hand off and run the ball gashes you for 208 on 31 carries.

Those yards against were not gimmicky QB scrambles and reverses like some weeks, this was just straight smash mouth.

Not only was the tackling poor, but it appears the Packers were taking advantage of the DL gaps and the LB's were not plugging them up at the point of attack....basically just getting out schemed and out physical'd.  The tackling was piss poor and some guys were just going for battering ram type tackles instead of wrapping up.  Stop flying in there like an out of control missile, and just tackle the ball carrier.

 

Anyway,  they'll be fine.  I think this will turn out to be their worst performance of the season vs the run..   But New England will try the same stuff, and maybe Jets too.

 

Utterly terrible take.  

 

Bills were fine giving up some run defense to make sure Rodgers didn't get any quick strike scores and mount a comeback.  We had a big lead and chewing clock was just fine.  This is why you are not a football analyst.  You would have to actually understand game planning and strategy.