Defense vs Green Bay and their performance

[Real McClappy]

Sign me up every football game of the week were our D only gives up 10pts in a half. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

They tried passing on the early 4th down. Our run defense had 1 good play (the late 4th down stop)

I mean it depends on how you’re quantifying a good run defense play.  But even so the point remains…why are we trying to rewrite history on the 4th down stops when we aren’t taking that line of thinking with something that was much more likely to go the other way like the doubs td catch.  9 times out of 10 he doesn’t make that catch and the packers are left with a 3rd and 12 there on their way to a 3 point first half 

[Billz4ever]

2 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

I’ve got to slightly disagree with this.

 

Frazier refused to bring a safety down into the box and refused to sub off Taron Johnson for a LB. The Pack did exactly what you are meant to do against the cover 2 shell, you run into it and dink/dunk your way down the field.  And that’s going to happen against that alignment. The issue is, can you sustain that many plays in a drive without committing an error.  And when the field compresses as you get towards the goal line can you punch it in for 7? The Pack couldn’t do it. 
 

That’s an effective defensive game plan. Sure, the rush numbers look high but does that matter if they aren’t converting any of those drives? You also have to say that had the offense not laid an egg in the 2nd half, this outcome would have been very different.

I wouldn't exactly call ripping off 10, 20+ yards runs dink/dunks. A fairly weak OPI call and a missed FG were the only thing keeping this game from being tied.

 

GBs weakness is their receivers.  You make them beat you, not give up the equivalent of long pass plays on the ground because your play calling is too rigid.  There as no reason to be in nickel all night, especially when the other team isn't passing much and their formations show run down after down.

 

What we saw last night was a form of prevent defense, except they were giving up huge chunks of yards on the ground instead of through the air.

[HopelessNJBuffaloFan]

Yes, our defense was definitely suspect last night, especially on the run. I think the game plan for both teams was skewed. We thought Rogers was going to try and keep up with the Bills and put it in the air. The Pack thought they were going to control the line of scrimmage and keep us from scoring. So, the Pack did pretty much control the line on both sides, with the exception of about a dozen plays. The Bills seemed to stay in cover 2 most of the game until the 4th qtr late. Either way, i believe it was just happen stance that it worked out this way. The Pack D-line and O-line were big and seemed to push our smaller guys around a bit, but we bent without breaking.

[Wayne Cubed]

2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I agree with a lot of this but the game reminded me the New England game last year.  As for a defensive game plan wouldn't it have been smarter to go 4-3-4 instead of the base nickel in order to take away the run and force Rodgers and the Packers to pass?  Why allow them to control the ball and control the clock and basically execute the offensive game plan they developed for the game.  Their WR group is limited in both talent and experience.  Its rule number one of defensive game planning try to take away what the opponent does best?  Instead they allowed the opponent to do what they do best given the circumstances the Packers faced.  They won because the offense was just too much for the Packers, and likely any NFL, defense to contain.  Even on what you can argue was an off night for Josh Allen.  They need to be sharper and cleaner against the Jets next Sunday.  

 

You don't go to a 4-3-4 because Taron Johnson > Tyrel Dodson. However bad the GB wide recievers are there's a major difference between this and the New England game and that's the guy throwing the football. You can talk about how bad the WR group is, and they are bad but it's still Rodgers dealing the ball, not Mac Jones. And Rodgers 2 touchdowns show you that he can still throw it. He can still read the defense and pick you apart.

 

They allowed the Packers to "do what they do best' and that still wasn't enough to beat the Bills. In fact it pretty much played them out of the game. Their best player on offense is still Aaron Rodgers and the Bills took the ball out of his hands. Just like with the Bills when you take the ball out of Josh's hands, it's a win for the defense when the Bills are running the ball more than throwing.

1 hour ago, Billz4ever said:

I wouldn't exactly call ripping off 10, 20+ yards runs dink/dunks. A fairly weak OPI call and a missed FG were the only thing keeping this game from being tied.

 

GBs weakness is their receivers.  You make them beat you, not give up the equivalent of long pass plays on the ground because your play calling is too rigid.  There as no reason to be in nickel all night, especially when the other team isn't passing much and their formations show run down after down.

 

What we saw last night was a form of prevent defense, except they were giving up huge chunks of yards on the ground instead of through the air.

 

Yea I wouldn't call that dink/dunk either but what I would call dink/dunk are the short throws and screens... which the Packers were running a lot of. They also ran the ball, which I said is what you do against Cover 2.

[Aesop]

As many have said, the Bills had a three score lead and the cheese kept running the ball. The only complaint I guess I have is the one drive in the 4th where Jones/Dillon ran for like 60+ yards in like three plays. The drive ended in a FG because of the PI on Tonyan. If teams are going to keep running it, down by 17 in the 4th quarter, I dont mind staying in the nickel base defense. Let them milk clock and kick FG's.

 

I get we have to find things to complain about, even with a win. 

 

I'd rather complain about Josh throwing two picks inside the Pack's 50. That took points off the board and ultimately kept GB in the game.

[Einstein]

Has anyone watched the game again yet? Curious to hear what you noticed on second watch (or even first watch) about the defense. 
 

Perhaps i’m a bit spoiled but we are not used to seeing this elite defense give up over 200 yards rushing and over 6 yards per play this season. Green Bay also won Time of Possession by 7 minutes. 

 

Did Green Bay exploit a weakness in our defense or was it something else? This year, we typically stop the run even in nickel.

 

Go Bills!

 

.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Einstein

[GunnerBill]

Primarily? We tackled really poorly. I'd like to see a stat for yards after contact by the Green Bay runners but the first man there was rarely able to make a stop. Must tackle better.

[Einstein]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

Primarily? We tackled really poorly. I'd like to see a stat for yards after contact by the Green Bay runners but the first man there was rarely able to make a stop. Must tackle better.

 

Thanks for the reminder. I actually had forgotten about the amount of missed tackles and yards after contact. That’s huge.

[GoBills808]

Packers didn't want to get blown out. They were running heavy sets and trying to keep the score respectable. Our offense wasn't polished enough off a bye to punish that strategy. It happens. 

[Big Blitz]

I think they were good with them running.  
 

They knew the game was over

 

The LBs may not have diagnosed as quick - in a tight game in the balance no way do I think that happens.  
 

Green Bay is also very good at it.  

[Big Turk]

This is what happened.

 

When the Bills needed to stop the run on a 4th and 1 to end a drive, Von Miller caved in the entire right side of their Oline and used their tackle to tackle Aaron Jones for a 2 or 3 yard loss.  "The Closer" doesn't just do it rushing the passer.

 

All that other stuff was just GB wasting their time and the Bills while not happy about giving up the yards, were happy to trade the clock moving and GB wasting all their time running the ball to do nothing.  There was no way they were going to win the game that way.

 

When the Bills needed a stop, they got one emphatically.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Big Turk

[Wayne Cubed]

Agree with Gunner, the tackling wasn't good which is why the running yards were higher than normal.

 

Other than that, the strategy was correct. The Bills defense does not care about yards. They'll take yards over points, every time. Also, the poor offensive showing the sencond half, didn't punish the Packers.

[KDIGGZ]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Has anyone watched the game again yet? Curious to hear what you noticed on second watch (or even first watch) about the defense. 
 

Perhaps i’m a bit spoiled but we are not used to seeing this elite defense give up over 200 yards rushing and over 6 yards per play this season. Green Bay also won Time of Possession by 7 minutes. 

 

Did Green Bay exploit a weakness in our defense or was it something else? This year, we typically stop the run even in nickel.

 

Go Bills!

Bills stayed in nickel with a big cushion even though they were clearly running it down their throats. They probably figured they weren't going to get back into the game running it because it took too much time off the clock. What would get them back in the game was long passes which is Rodgers specialty. I don't have any concerns going forward vs the run. We shut down Baltimore and Tennessee without issue

[GunnerBill]

There was definitely an element of letting the Packers kill their own time too. I said it at Half Time in the GDT. They were 17 down and their scoring drive took 8 and a half minutes. Was going to be hard at that rate for them to close the gap. 

 

I think the Bills were fine with them being run heavy but they will have wanted to be better in terms of their run defense. They didn't need to go to more 3 linebacker sets or a bigger personnel grouping or bring a safety up. The tacklers just needed to make the plays that were there ti be made at and around the line.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Wayne Cubed said:

Agree with Gunner, the tackling wasn't good which is why the running yards were higher than normal.

 

Other than that, the strategy was correct. The Bills defense does not care about yards. They'll take yards over points, every time. Also, the poor offensive showing the sencond half, didn't punish the Packers.

 

Correct, if the Bills got up even more, GB would have had to abandon the run...Bills players were stunned they were still running the ball down 17 as it was.

[RiotAct]

horrible tackling near the line of scrimmage.   That simple.

[Nextmanup]

I have it recorded, but have not seen it a second time yet.

 

I do remember clearly watching a LOT of Bills tacklers simply failing to make the stop on first contact.  I would call it sloppy tackling as much as anything.

 

Honestly, we are not used to playing that type of football game; we are built to shut down elite passing offenses.

 

GB went 1980s on us and I think it caught a lot of the D off guard.

 

Maybe they need to do more tackling drills.

 

I don't know.

 

 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

When the Bills needed to stop the run on a 4th and 1 to end a drive, Von Miller caved in the entire right side of their Oline

 

That was incredibly impressive.

 

Von Miller is an absolute force out there.

 

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

All that other stuff was just GB wasting their time and the Bills while not happy about giving up the yards, were happy to trade the clock moving and GB wasting all their time running the ball to do nothing.  There was no way they were going to win the game that way

 

Discussion over I suppose.

[DrDawkinstein]

Bills went up 24-7. Only chance for the Pack to come back would be through the air so Buffalo shut that down. Let the Pack run and eat the clock all they wanted while only scoring 10 2nd half points.

 

What happened on Defense? They won the game. Maybe not 100% perfectly executed on tackling, but they still won the game.

 

Points >>> Yards

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

There was definitely an element of letting the Packers kill their own time too. I said it at Half Time in the GDT. They were 17 down and their scoring drive took 8 and a half minutes. Was going to be hard at that rate for them to close the gap. 

 

I think the Bills were fine with them being run heavy but they will have wanted to be better in terms of their run defense. They didn't need to go to more 3 linebacker sets or a bigger personnel grouping or bring a safety up. The tacklers just needed to make the plays that were there ti be made at and around the line.

 

I get this point, but I have a hard time thinking McD and Frazier were actually content with letting them rip off 5 to 10 yard runs every play.

 

I assume they’d rather let the offense have the 7 minute drives than the defense.

[TH3]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Has anyone watched the game again yet? Curious to hear what you noticed on second watch (or even first watch) about the defense. 
 

Perhaps i’m a bit spoiled but we are not used to seeing this elite defense give up over 200 yards rushing and over 6 yards per play this season. Green Bay also won Time of Possession by 7 minutes. 

 

Did Green Bay exploit a weakness in our defense or was it something else? This year, we typically stop the run even in nickel.

 

Go Bills!

 

.

Defense and Frazier on the HOTSEAT!

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I have it recorded, but have not seen it a second time yet.

 

I do remember clearly watching a LOT of Bills tacklers simply failing to make the stop on first contact.  I would call it sloppy tackling as much as anything.

 

Honestly, we are not used to playing that type of football game; we are built to shut down elite passing offenses.

 

GB went 1980s on us and I think it caught a lot of the D off guard.

 

Maybe they need to do more tackling drills.

 

I don't know.

 

 

 

I also would like to add that Aaron Jones is a much better RB than I thought he was...dude runs with power, with great balance and has some speed.  Very impressed with him.

[Jauronimo]

LaFleur was content to stick with the run game and salt his own clock instead of play for a win and Leslie Frazier was content to let him do it.  

[FilthyBeast]

Unless this trend continues it's just a game anomaly.

 

And considering the Jets QB and passing game is horrible there's very little chance this team gives up anything close to that output on the ground again this next week since they will literally be daring Wilson to beat them in the air.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I get this point, but I have a hard time thinking McD and Frazier were actually content with letting them rip off 5 to 10 yard runs every play.

 

I assume they’d rather let the offense have the 7 minute drives than the defense.

 

Sure, we'd like to stuff those runs, but the scheme was to play the pass. 5-10 yards with the entire play happening in front of the defenders, as opposed to getting deep behind them, is a win. I dont think they were that upset either.

[Jauronimo]

This thought could have slotted in nicely into any of the other threads discussing the game or specifically, the defensive performance in the game.

[billsfan1959]

Even when GB was running the ball, the Bills D was still primarily concerned with the pass. This wasn't a normal situation in which a team was set on running the ball and the defense tried everything they could to stop it - and couldn't. In the end, it allowed GB to only lose by 10...

[Big Turk]

 

[Warcodered]

I think they held the back to back MVP to 17 points.

[mikemac2001]

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

LaFleur was content to stick with the run game and salt his own clock instead of play for a win and Leslie Frazier was content to let him do it.  

Yep we stayed in nickle even though they had multiple TE sets. 
 

we were not gonna give up a big pass let them waste the clock and get out with a W 

[HappyDays]

I think our coaches were elated that Green Bay kept running the ball in the 2nd half. It became clear that they were going to run out of time using that strategy so we kept our defensive scheme as is and let them have those yards. When you build up a 3 score lead against a team that is down most of its WRs you can concede the run.

[Big Turk]

I think the bigger story is that GB felt so overmatched they were seemingly happy to "lose just not by that much"...with one of the best QBs ever to play and the reigning back to back MVP at QB.

 

LaFleur...WTF are you doing man?

Edited October 31, 2022 by Big Turk

[ngbills]

I would be pissed as a GB fan. They played to not get blown out. Down big and just eating clock. They wanted to get out losing only by 10 instead of 20+. 

 

The Bills D played like a team with a big lead. A bit sloppy but the intensity dropped after being up big. They did look a bit slow in space even early as Jones had a lot of room to run. If the game was closer would the D have been different...hope so. 

[bigK14094]

There was a lot of poor tackleing for sure.  Edmunds was knocked downfield 5 yards a number of times.  He wraps the runners up, but he doesn't deliver the blow to stop them.  Thats the wrap I see on him.

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Even when GB was running the ball, the Bills D was still primarily concerned with the pass. This wasn't a normal situation in which a team was set on running the ball and the defense tried everything they could to stop it - and couldn't. In the end, it allowed GB to only lose by 10...

 

Both Rousseau and Miller stated in post game interviews they were rushing as if GB was going to be passing and couldn't believe they kept running it.

Just now, ngbills said:

I would be pissed as a GB fan. They played to not get blown out. Down big and just eating clock. They wanted to get out losing only by 10 instead of 20+. 

 

The Bills D played like a team with a big lead. A bit sloppy but the intensity dropped after being up big. They did look a bit slow in space even early as Jones had a lot of room to run. If the game was closer would the D have been different...hope so. 

 

It almost was like they got deflated when they realized GB wasn't even trying to win.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I think the bigger story is that GB felt so overmatched they were seemingly happy to "lose just not by that much"...with one of the best QBs ever to play and the reigning back to back MVP at QB.

 

LaFleur...WTF are you doing man?

 

This. It was noticeable in the quick sideline interview with LeFleur after halftime, when the reporter asked him what the team had to do to comeback in the 2nd half, he was speechless, didnt know what to say, and then gave some stammering response about taking it one play at a time. They were just trying to get out of there without getting blown out.

[The Frankish Reich]

22 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

Agree with Gunner, the tackling wasn't good which is why the running yards were higher than normal.

 

Other than that, the strategy was correct. The Bills defense does not care about yards. They'll take yards over points, every time. Also, the poor offensive showing the sencond half, didn't punish the Packers.

As simple as: you have a big lead. You don’t want to give up a quick strike. The other guys are more interested in establishing some kind of offensive rhythm rather than in actually winning the game.  The Packers basically raised the white flag when they didn’t even try to get in field goal range in their last possession of the first half:

 

3rd & 16 at GB 26

(1:06 - 2nd) (Shotgun) A.Jones left guard to GB 34 for 8 yards (V.Miller; T.Edmunds).

 

Garbage time rushing yards. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by The Frankish Reich

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

This. It was noticeable in the quick sideline interview with LeFleur after halftime, when the reporter asked him what the team had to do to comeback in the 2nd half, he was speechless, didnt know what to say, and then gave some stammering response about taking it one play at a time. They were just trying to get out of there without getting blown out.

 

Yeah and to "see how it goes".  I was like did he seriously just say that?

[US Egg]

Most of the crowd seemed spent by halftime.

 

It’s their fault for the second half Bills malaise.