Ken Dorsey is really really good

[Westside]

9 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

No different than Belichick, Saban temper tantrums

When you win in the NFL people look the other way when they throw temper tantrum’s. Belichek is known for his childish behavior, but he knows how to win so it gets ignored.

[ehfeuh57]

He Runs way too many times on 1st down

 

What is our 1st down Avg yards per carry rank. i'm guessing near the bottom of the league.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

9 hours ago, NoSaint said:

That meltdown clip wont help him either

 

not the end of the world but plays poorly in that regard 

 

 

Give me a real coaching meltdown any day over this…🥱

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

Apparently you have not had a chance yet to watch "All or Nothing: Arsenal" yet. 😀

 

Mikel Arteta and Ken Dorsey (and many people in sports) have the same reaction after losses. Ken and Mikel both have the same passion. We (Arsenal and the Bills) are "top of the table," and I am very happy that Arsenal stuck with Mikel and the Bills chose Dorsey to be the OC.

 

I have not heard one player criticize the way Dorsey reacted. Instead, all of the players have been very positive and complimentary of his passion (particularly Josh).

 

Everyone who has ever been in a locker room has seen reactions like Dorsey's. Everyone. If an owner decides that Dorsey has the ability to be a HC, the video of him after the Dolphin game is not going to hurt him.  

 

I have and Mik never destroyed a dressing room. It isn't that Dorsey was angry or showed passion. It is that he lost control. Leadership is about control. And Mikel Arteta knows that better than anyone which is why when his control was threatened by a problem - Auba - he dealt with it swiftly. Leaders who lose control are not good leaders. If Dorsey had just thrown his headphones down and banged the desk, non issue. It was the complete loss of control that was the issue. 

[Peter]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I have and Mik never destroyed a dressing room. It isn't that Dorsey was angry or showed passion. It is that he lost control. Leadership is about control. And Mikel Arteta knows that better than anyone which is why when his control was threatened by a problem - Auba - he dealt with it swiftly. Leaders who lose control are not good leaders. If Dorsey had just thrown his headphones down and banged the desk, non issue. It was the complete loss of control that was the issue. 

 

I disagree. I see no difference in the passion.

 

Mikel

 

Yes, more inanimate objects were on the receiving end of Dorsey's reaction . . . but, in my view, they both have the same passion, which typically is admired as demonstrated by everything players like Josh and Von said in response.

 

Once again, everyone who has been in a locker room has seen reactions like Dorsey's (and Mikel's). What Dorsey did will not hurt him one bit if an owner thinks that he has the skills to be a head coach. 

 

Throwing and smashing things has not hurt this guy's career:

 

 

 

 

Bill B and a Tablet

 

P.S. Not just Auba, he got rid of that diva Özil. Another example of addition by subtraction.

[eball]

Two words:  HALFTIME ADJUSTMENTS

 

This is the most dramatic difference I have noticed in this year's team -- both offensively and defensively -- as compared to the previous few seasons.

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

 

I disagree. I see no difference in the passion.

 

Mikel

 

Yes, more inanimate objects were on the receiving end of Dorsey's reaction . . . but, in my view, they both have the same passion, which typically is admired as demonstrated by everything players like Josh and Von said in response.

 

Once again, everyone who has been in a locker room has seen reactions like Dorsey's (and Mikel's). What Dorsey did will not hurt him one bit if an owner thinks that he has the skills to be a head coach. 

 

Throwing and smashing things has not hurt this guy's career:

 

 

 

 

Bill B and a Tablet

 

P.S. Not just Auba, he got rid of that diva Özil. Another example of addition by subtraction.

 

They are not the same. One action of frustration whether it is Mik slamming the kit bin or Belichick throwing an ipad is not the same. Arteta is totally in control through that team talk. He is angry, he is showing his frustration but he is on control. Dorsey lost control. That is a bad sign in a leader. 

 

And I have said before, I have coached. I have had a Dorsey moment. I understand where it comes from. But you can't let it happen. You have to be better than that. If it was a total one off then it is unlikely to be a single factor that stops him getting a job. But if you end up with two very evenly matched candidates then anyone who has been in a leadership position and understand the art of leadership will take it into account. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by GunnerBill

[PetermansRedemption]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

He has a long way to go before he’s a HC

 

his resume is small and he was fired as a QB coach in 18

 

he has josh Allen

 

and I do think he’s been really good but it’s wayyyy too quick to say he’s gonna be a HC soon

Has he ever had a cup of coffee with McVay though? That’s the true test. 

[Reed83HOF]

9 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

Oh, My.  Where did you find that?

 Carolina vs. Denver superbowl is when it happened. I have been waiting to post the gif at an appropriate time (which is hard to find now lol)

[Big Turk]

The way he is moving Diggs around and getting him favorable matchups is really nice to see...he is playing a lot more in the slot this year and running option routes against nickel CBs.

 

It's like he took Daboll's offense and refined it more and added his own ideas.  

 

We are in really good hands with him.  

 

Bills #1 in Yards Per Game by almost 30 yards over the 2nd place Lions and they have only played 5 games.  On pace to finish with the 7th highest yards per game in NFL history at almost 441.

[CincyBillsFan]

Dorsey has eliminated any concerns the departure of DaBold raised.  His game planning & play calling have been quite good. 

 

I also suspect that Joe Brady has contributed to this as well particularly in the passing game design.  The good news is that after Dorsey leaves to take a head coaching job Brady will step in as OC.

 

 

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, StHustle said:

I was talking specifically as an offensive coordinator…Daboll could very well end up being a much better head coach but not as good as an offensive coordinator. 

 

So Daboll's first year, a number of his play designs seemed really really weird to me.  I called him the Vizzinni of OCs.  Maybe it was because his OL was so horridly deficient and he was trying his best, maybe it was Juan Castillo.  But he'd have these plays where OK it's a misdirection to the R covering up for an outside run to the L but then it really turns out to be a bubble screen to the R.  It was like he expected the defense to be frozen in place thinking.  I literally spent HOURS watching all-22 and interrogating patient people who know more about football: "what is he trying to do here?  what is this play supposed to look like if it works?"  The most awkward overly cute plays did disappear as the season went on, and the next season plays were much better designed (perhaps Bobby Johnson had a hand), but I never felt that the run and pass game worked together. 

 

From the start with Dorsey, I don't see that.  He seems to understand how defensive players think and how to ***** with them, probably because he had the chance to do so himself.  Everything seems well-crafted to work together.  The problems with the run game seem purely technique failures - one player is supposed to pass a guy off and block the guy to his L or R according to zone rules and he Just Can't Do It, or a WR is supposed to block and he Just Doesn't, not even get in the way.  But the play itself seems well designed and are used to set up the passing game, even when they don't work.  I don't know the names, but I can see what they're trying to do, and see why the play didn't work if it squibbed.

 

His major growth need seems to be finding the plays that WILL get a guy open down on the goal line, and also being too cute on 4th and 1 (which may be a QB-C exchange concern in part).  But I have high confidence he'll figure it out, and the QB sneak plays with Davis shoving Allen vs KC were a ++ sign.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 Carolina vs. Denver superbowl is when it happened. I have been waiting to post the gif at an appropriate time (which is hard to find now lol)

 

LOL that game was purgatory for the Carolina DC, I can totally see that.  Bet it happened on the final series, after Cam Newton had a strip sack (by Von Miller) on the 25 and gave Denver the ball at the Carolina 4 yd line.

 

So McDermott was speaking from the heart when he told the media that he understands the competitiveness and the passion and how much the coach cares, but as a leader, you have to learn to keep your composure and set an example.  I bet that's exactly what Rivera told him.

 

2 hours ago, eball said:

Two words:  HALFTIME ADJUSTMENTS

 

This is the most dramatic difference I have noticed in this year's team -- both offensively and defensively -- as compared to the previous few seasons.

 

 

I agree, and it's been the difference in the 3rd Q.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Beck Water

[HoofHearted]

12 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

Outside of that stupid option call early in the game it was a very well called game for the most part. Dorsey has stepped up well in the absence of Daboll. 

This is what bugs me about fans. If it had scored a touchdown I assume everyone would be raving about what a great call it was.

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

We actually had a QB sneak sighting last game! I was so proud.

And it worked!

Gabe Davis had to use Josh as a battering ram, but it got the job done

[BillsShredder83]

13 hours ago, NoSaint said:

That meltdown clip wont help him either

 

not the end of the world but plays poorly in that regard 

 

 

"Boy Hackett has russ Wilson and can't score. We were going to offer a job to that Dorsey guy but how would we handle the media ****storm, off a guy who crumpled a paper. 

Sure we've handled gun charges with stars like Dumervil and Talib, but this is too much"

[Bills2022]

14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

He has a long way to go before he’s a HC

 

his resume is small and he was fired as a QB coach in 18

 

he has josh Allen

 

and I do think he’s been really good but it’s wayyyy too quick to say he’s gonna be a HC soon

 

He will be a head coach next year, especially if we win the Super Bowl.  That is the way the league works.  My guess is he will be heading to Carolina, but I would not count out Denver.  

 

[Sharky7337]

He has done a good job at times but he definitely missed a huge opportunity to adjust on the chiefs. After the first half they were selling out hard to stop the run. 

 

He called obvious runs still snd ran into it as opposed to going play action out of the gate and catching them off guard.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Sharky7337

[Peter]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They are not the same. One action of frustration whether it is Mik slamming the kit bin or Belichick throwing an ipad is not the same. Arteta is totally in control through that team talk. He is angry, he is showing his frustration but he is on control. Dorsey lost control. That is a bad sign in a leader. 

 

And I have said before, I have coached. I have had a Dorsey moment. I understand where it comes from. But you can't let it happen. You have to be better than that. If it was a total one off then it is unlikely to be a single factor that stops him getting a job. But if you end up with two very evenly matched candidates then anyone who has been in a leadership position and understand the art of leadership will take it into account. 

 

I disagree. It is not going to hurt Dorsey one bit (presuming he checks all of the other boxes for an owner). Indeed, that viral video may even help him.  Just my two cents.

 

COYG!!!

Go Bills!!!

[NoSaint]

8 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

"Boy Hackett has russ Wilson and can't score. We were going to offer a job to that Dorsey guy but how would we handle the media ****storm, off a guy who crumpled a paper. 

Sure we've handled gun charges with stars like Dumervil and Talib, but this is too much"

 

“we fired our coach and have 5 to 10 guys that we really like…. That guy in Buffalo had a heck of a year… but he does have Josh Allen and all I know of his personality is he kind of lost his mind that one time.” 
 

would be absolutely crazy for an owner or GM to decide another year or two as OC could serve him well. I know, I know, insane that someone might possibly hold it as a strike against a really aggressive declaration of making the guy a HC after 1 year as OC 

[Bills2022]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

 

would be absolutely crazy for an owner or GM to decide another year or two as OC could serve him well. I know, I know, insane that someone might possibly hold it as a strike against a really aggressive declaration of making the guy a HC after 1 year as OC 

 

Owners don't think like that.  Owners are more worried someone else will sign him first. Denver can't just sit around and say he needs another year or two because if they do a team like Carolina could come in and grab him.  Owners like smart, young, offensive minded coaches. Just 1 year as OC of the Bills means nothing, as long as they like him.  It is just like an elite player coming out of the draft early.  GM's can't just say he could use another year or two in school, because somebody else will take a chance.  

 

 

[wppete]

What are the odds Dorsey gets a HC job soon? 

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, Bills2022 said:

 

Owners don't think like that.  Owners are more worried someone else will sign him first. Denver can't just sit around and say he needs another year or two because if they do a team like Carolina could come in and grab him.  Owners like smart, young, offensive minded coaches. Just 1 year as OC of the Bills means nothing, as long as they like him.  It is just like an elite player coming out of the draft early.  GM's can't just say he could use another year or two in school, because somebody else will take a chance.  

 

 

 

you are right. No owner or GM in the entire nfl may have even a moment of pause.
 

Guys that have never met him and have no familiarity will not at all wonder about his temperament even the slightest. 

[Einstein]

7 hours ago, Peter said:

 

I disagree. It is not going to hurt Dorsey one bit (presuming he checks all of the other boxes for an owner). Indeed, that viral video may even help him.  Just my two cents.

 

COYG!!!

Go Bills!!!

 

Not only did it not hurt Dorsey, multiple Bills players said they loved it. @GunnerBill just refuses to change his mindset.

[machine gun kelly]

It’s just like a rookie player.  He’s feeling his way into the OC role.  He knows offense on a prolific college offense years ago in Miami.  I remember him back in the day.

 

IDC about his meltdown in the booth.  Rookie mistake.  He’ll learn from it.  It’s not like Dabbs hasn’t lost his mind a couple of times.  Just like Dabbs, he’ll get better.

 

Dorsey called a great game and managed the clock better than Dabbs at times.  That’s following a guy that has the Giants at 5-1 and no one expected that to happen.

 

Im a closet Giants fan now because of Dabbs and Schoen.  I hope you guys are too.  Between our boys managing the team and beating the Cheats twice in the SB, I’m over the SB loss in 25.

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

you are right. No owner or GM in the entire nfl may have even a moment of pause.
 

Guys that have never met him and have no familiarity will not at all wonder about his temperament even the slightest. 

 

Yeah, pretty much. It won’t.

 

- Pittsburgh has a head coach that has literally tripped opponents MID PLAY.

- New England has a head coach that has thrown iPad’s, slammed phones, ripped off his head set, and has physically grabbed refs running off the field.

- San Francisco and Michigan have hired a head coach that is so known for his temper tantrums that there are entire compilation videos about it.

- Syracuse has a head coach that had to be physically restrained from going after a ref

 

I could go on but what’s the point. Teams want to win.

[NoSaint]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

Yeah, pretty much. It won’t.

 

- Pittsburgh has a head coach that has literally tripped opponents MID PLAY.

- New England has a head coach that has thrown iPad’s, slammed phones, ripped off his head set, and has physically grabbed refs running off the field.

- San Francisco and Michigan have hired a head coach that is so known for his temper tantrums that there are entire compilation videos about it.

- Syracuse has a head coach that had to be physically restrained from going after a ref

 

I could go on but what’s the point. Teams want to win.

 

Established HC that had a Super Bowl ring

 

had many Super Bowl rings 

had 7 years as a college head coach and wore out his welcome in the nfl in 3(?) years despite a great record in large part due to his personality and finds himself in the college ranks. 

 

is in Syracuse. 
 

I’ll be the first to agree 32 teams would be willing to overlook Sean Payton’s baggage if they needed a head coach next season.  I think there are only a handful of jobs and that Dorsey would need a pretty immaculate resume to jump ahead of a guy like that. I don’t think it disqualifies him. I think it’s a small strike. 
 

I think some of y’all are really struggling with the idea that I’m saying someone may consider it and not that every owner will black ball him. 

 

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

Established HC that had a Super Bowl ring

 

had many Super Bowl rings 

had 7 years as a college head coach and wore out his welcome in the nfl in 3(?) years despite a great record in large part due to his personality and finds himself in the college ranks. 

 

is in Syracuse. 
 

I’ll be the first to agree 32 teams would be willing to overlook Sean Payton’s baggage if they needed a head coach next season.  I think there are only a handful of jobs and that Dorsey would need a pretty immaculate resume to jump ahead of a guy like that. I don’t think it disqualifies him. I think it’s a small strike. 
 

I think some of y’all are really struggling with the idea that I’m saying someone may consider it and not that every owner will black ball him. 

 

 

Are you under the impression that all those coaches became hot heads after they won a ring? lol

 

I truly don’t think it would be a concern. If a team wanted him, smashing some papers won’t be the decision maker in my opinion.

 

.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Einstein

[wjag]

All I know is that before the season started the chatter on the interwebs was 'yeah Josh Allen is good but they lost Daboll and we don't know about Dorsey'.  That chatter is gone and buried now. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Not only did it not hurt Dorsey, multiple Bills players said they loved it. @GunnerBill just refuses to change his mindset.

 

I do. As a leader in a sporting field and a professional one you will never get me to say showing a total loss of control is a good look. It isn't. 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do. As a leader in a sporting field and a professional one you will never get me to say showing a total loss of control is a good look. It isn't. 

 

 

His reaction after that Miami game means nothing.    I'm not really sure where you are gapping here but nobody is going to wonder how he holds up under pressure or worry about him showing anger up in a box where he is a mile away from being able to do anything about it........he was a championship level QB who played well under pressure and has A LOT of NFL coaching experience.    He'd be over-ripe if he were from the Shanahan or McVay trees.    This guy,  on the other hand,   he was a division 3 long snapper.    

 

 

I don't watch much european kickball.........do the guys in the $20K suits on the sideline never act a fool when they are very mad?   

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

His reaction after that Miami game means nothing.    I'm not really sure where you are gapping here but nobody is going to wonder how he holds up under pressure or worry about him showing anger up in a box where he is a mile away from being able to do anything about it........he was a championship level QB who played well under pressure and has A LOT of NFL coaching experience.    He'd be over-ripe if he were from the Shanahan or McVay trees.    This guy,  on the other hand,   he was a division 3 long snapper.    

 

 

I don't watch much european kickball.........do the guys in the $20K suits on the sideline never act a fool when they are very mad?   

 

It won't stop him becoming a Head Coach. That was never my contention. But that wasn't acting the fool. It was a total loss of control and that is a bad look for a leader. Leadership is about control above all else. If it is a one off it is a bad look. If there is a repeat it is a problem.

 

Again Belichick throwing a tablet is not the same. A single act of frustration is not what Dorsey had. He had a total loss of control. You can't let that happen.

[Protocal69]

4 hours ago, wppete said:

What are the odds Dorsey gets a HC job soon? 

Slim to None in my opinion

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Not only did it not hurt Dorsey, multiple Bills players said they loved it. @GunnerBill just refuses to change his mindset.

 

Personally I love the passion.  Guys like that are winners.  I want my OC getting pissed off when something didnt work to win a game.

[Bill Grundy]

I’d like to see a few more Dabol-like creative plays in the red zone. Cos he hasn’t really got that area figured out yet and it’s vital. 

[78thealltimegreat]

One sleeper team I would keep an eye on with Dorsey is Arizona. Coach is a major disappointment and the QB is paid like Josh but isn’t even in the same stadium talent wise even though he thinks he is. 

[McBean]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:50 PM, Buffalo716 said:

He has a long way to go before he’s a HC

 

his resume is small and he was fired as a QB coach in 18

 

he has josh Allen

 

and I do think he’s been really good but it’s wayyyy too quick to say he’s gonna be a HC soon

I’d disagree.

 

Some Teams will see how much success Daboll is having and automatically assume that could be Dorsey.

 

I could totally see him landing in Washington or Carolina next year.

[C.Biscuit97]

He has been great but he was handed mvp candidate Josh instead of rookie year Josh. Huge difference and has to make your job so much easier. But excellent job so far. 
 

my lady friend looked at him and was like he looks like a nerd. When I told he was the qb for maybe the best college team ever, she nearly choked on her chicken wing dip. 

[Big Turk]

Great article with video on the Bills resurgent running game the past 2 weeks and how Dorsey made some changes to get it going...basically, re-using the pin and pull concepts from last year that worked well.

 

Something else to note.  Knox has quietly become one of the best blocking TE's in the NFL.

 

You'll see him drive DE Frank Clark 5 yards down the field and then execute a nice trap block on DT Chris Jones to spring Singletary on a shotgun run. 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Big Turk

[Beck Water]

13 hours ago, wppete said:

What are the odds Dorsey gets a HC job soon? 

 

This season?  Too soon to tell.

Factors:

1) How many coaches get fired.  You got an idea?  I don't.  I would say Lovie Smith and Josh McDaniels get the "first year" mulligan plus the "bad look" bonus for Smith. Same for Doug Pederson.   Stefanski probably gets the Watson Suspension mulligan.   My guess would be Kingsbury goes if the Cards don't at least match last year's record and make the playoffs - "to whom much is given, much is expected".  Have the Lions seen enough of the Knee Biter?  Their offense is good, but their defense sucks, my guess would be Campbell swaps DCs and stays another year.  Maybe you have a good Crystal Ball, I don't.

2) The thinking of the teams that fire them.  Rumor had it Carolina had a specific "big name" in mind when they kicked Rhule to the curb.   Do the owners want to stay with the "hot offensive hands" trend, or is the pendulum swinging to "defense wins championships"?

3) Do the Bills win the Superbowl?  Actual championship winning OCs are a markedly hotter commodity than runner-ups.