Report: Steelers fear that DPOY T.J. Watt tore his pec in win over Bengals

[Gugny]

30 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I disagree.

 

What happens when the receiver is one one side of the end zone, QB is one the same side of the field and throws it to his outside so only the receiver can catch it. If the receiver  has his feet in the end zone and the ball is thrown outside and the  ball never crosses the end zone that is a TD. Those type of throws happen al the time.

 

In order for a pass to be caught by a receiver whose feet are in the end zone, there is no way the ball doesn't cross the plane on its way to the receiver.  In order for QB to throw a pass that doesn't cross the plain, but is caught by a receiver in the end zone, the QB would either have to be standing out of bounds, or have one hell of a curve ball.

 

[Simon]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I havent seen the bolded change mentioned. Will google for more info. Still infinite as far as I know.

 

To the second part, I'm almost positive Josh has thrown more than 1 of these. At least 1 to Diggs, Davis, and Knox, over the last couple seasons. Receiver's toes on the line, ball way outside, caught, TD.

 

I've seen a couple recently where they haven't called it a TD because the ball was outside the pylon even though it clearly broke the plane while the runner was in bounds.

In order for a pass to not cross at least a piece of the pylon, the QB's arm would also have to be way outside the OB line on the sideline. That's something that I cannot imagine any referee would ever even consider introducing into a call equation.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/theres-optimism-that-steelers-t-j-watt-did-not-fully-tear-his-pec-and-could-return-in-roughly-a-month/
 

There's optimism that Steelers' T.J. Watt did not fully tear his pec and could return in roughly a month
 

[RoyBatty is alive]

26 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The ball is still deeper in the end zone past the goal line.  On a reception the ball must be deeper than the goal line and the player must make the catch and establish possession - exactly the same as anyplace on the field - either sideline and the goal line are the same.

 

It is also why when a catch is made in the middle of the field the ball is marked where the ball was caught not he feet.  The balls forward progress is what marks the line - Same as the end zone - if the ball does not reach the goal line as a player makes the catch - even if the majority of their body is in the end zone - it is spotted short.

 

 

 J Allen about to go out of bounds throws it to where only the receiver can catch it to the outside, ball did not cross end zone.   Very similar to the Know TD in the playoff versus the Pats but that specific case I dont know where the ball traveled to, just off the top of m,y head.

 

Depper in the end zone applies when the throw it out the back line and is aught in that regard the ball has crossed the end zone, that is not what I am describing.

[plenzmd1]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That is not a TD per nfl rules 

Think of it like this..

 

Josh is on the boundary, slings one sidearm to Diggs in the corner of the  endzone, ball travels in the air entirely out of bounds. Diggs toe drags, catches the ball while it is outside the boundary, the ball traveled the whole way outside of the boundary...that's a TD as long as he completes the process of the catch.

 

Now, Josh in on boundary, Josh throws against his body to Diggs in the middle of the field. Its short, and Diggs, while having his feet planted in the end zone,  has lean forward to catch ball and falls straight down and he is touched  down immediately  .His feet are in endzone ,never left,  but the ball  never crossed the plane of the goal line. That is not a TD.

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

12 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

In order for a pass to be caught by a receiver whose feet are in the end zone, there is no way the ball doesn't cross the plane on its way to the receiver.  In order for QB to throw a pass that doesn't cross the plain, but is caught by a receiver in the end zone, the QB would either have to be standing out of bounds, or have one hell of a curve ball.

 

I disagree, receivers can reach out far past the side line and stil catch the ball.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I disagree, receivers can reach out far past the side line and stil catch the ball.

 

I'm not disagreeing with that.

 

I'm saying that - at some point on its way to the receiver's hands - it's literally nearly impossible for the ball not to cross the plane.

 

EDIT:  Plenz's example (below) is the only way the ball doesn't cross the plane inside the pylons.

 

Josh is on the boundary, slings one sidearm to Diggs in the corner of the  endzone, ball travels in the air entirely out of bounds. Diggs toe drags, catches the ball while it is outside the boundary, the ball traveled the whole way outside of the boundary...that's a TD as long as he completes the process of the catch.

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Gugny

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Think of it like this..

 

Josh is on the boundary, slings one sidearm to Diggs in the corner of the  endzone, ball travels in the air entirely out of bounds. Diggs toe drags, catches the ball while it is outside the boundary, the ball traveled the whole way outside of the boundary...that's a TD as long as he completes the process of the catch.

 

Now, Josh in on boundary, Josh throws against his body to Diggs in the middle of the field. Its short, and Diggs, while having his feet planted in the end zone,  has lean forward to catch ball and falls straight down and he is touched  down immediately  .His feet are in endzone ,never left,  but the ball  never crossed the plane of the goal line. That is not a TD.

 

 

It’s a touchdown if the ball is behind the plane of the end zone

 

The end zone extends indefinitely horizontally.. That’s why the pylon is out of bounds but you could hit it and it’s a touchdown

 

In your scenario if the ball is behind the plane of the end zone it’s a touchdown… If it’s in front of it it’s not

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I disagree, receivers can reach out far past the side line and stil catch the ball.

 

That's a TD

[Rochesterfan]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I havent seen the bolded change mentioned. Will google for more info. Still infinite as far as I know.

 

To the second part, I'm almost positive Josh has thrown more than 1 of these. At least 1 to Diggs, Davis, and Knox, over the last couple seasons. Receiver's toes on the line, ball way outside, caught, TD.

 

It is correct - the NFL changed the rule for rushing or receiving in the field of play several years ago because players were running and then diving on the sidelines and at the end zone to get extra yardage.  The old rules used to be wherever you landed was the spot, but the NFL has adjusted and now the spot where the ball is when you last are in bounds is where it is marked down.

 

At the goal line if you are crossing from the field of play into the end zone - the ball must cross over the goal line or the pylon or hit the pylon for it to be a TD.  That is why you see the players diving and then sticking the ball out and trying to get it inside the pylon.  
 

They have made minor modifications that actually help the defense even minimally.  I believe the idea is part of their eventual push toward being able to electronically determine spotting and TDs - the sensors need to be in the field of play.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Rochesterfan said:

 

It is correct - the NFL changed the rule for rushing or receiving in the field of play several years ago because players were running and then diving on the sidelines and at the end zone to get extra yardage.  The old rules used to be wherever you landed was the spot, but the NFL has adjusted and now the spot where the ball is when you last are in bounds is where it is marked down.

 

At the goal line if you are crossing from the field of play into the end zone - the ball must cross over the goal line or the pylon or hit the pylon for it to be a TD.  That is why you see the players diving and then sticking the ball out and trying to get it inside the pylon.  
 

They have made minor modifications that actually help the defense even minimally.  I believe the idea is part of their eventual push toward being able to electronically determine spotting and TDs - the sensors need to be in the field of play.

 

 

 

So you're saying if I'm running down the field right at the sideline, and right before I hit the end zone I hold the ball out to my side, and I reach farther then the outside of the pylon, it isnt a TD? Outside of the pylon isnt a TD even if I possess the ball and my feet are in bounds?

[Simon]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

So you're saying if I'm running down the field right at the sideline, and right before I hit the end zone I hold the ball out to my side, and I reach farther then the outside of the pylon, it isnt a TD? Outside of the pylon isnt a TD even if I possess the ball and my feet are in bounds?

 

If you did that and never actually went down while staying in bounds in the endzone the whole time, I'm not sure what they would do.

But if the ball is outside the pylon when you go down in the endzone or OB in the endzone, they won't call it a TD anymore.

A few years ago they would have (because of the infinite goalline), but it changed at some point in the last 2-3 years.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Simon said:

 

If you did that and never actually went down while staying in bounds the whole time, I'm not sure what they would do.

But if the ball is outside the pylon when you go down in the endzone or OB in the endzone, they won't call it a TD anymore.

A few years ago they would have (because of the infinite goalline), but ut changed at some point in the last 2-3 years.

 

Phew, well if the NFL was set on making the definition of a touchdown as confusing as the definition of a completed catch, then they have succeeded. Effin a...

[Simon]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Phew, well if the NFL was set on making the definition of a touchdown as confusing as the definition of a completed catch, then they have succeeded. Effin a...

 

Yeah, I thought the change was pointless and confusing at the time because there were no real issues with the rule as it was.

But somebody's point about them wanting to introduce sensors on the lines and the pylon is a good point, it sounds like the kind of overproduction that the league loves.

[Golden*Wheels]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

If your feet are in the endzone and you have control of the ball, it is a TD, 100%.  Where the ball is totally irrelevant.  How many plays are TDs as receivers ball outside of the end zone, hundreds each year.

I get that if he catches it with both feet while already in the end zone. That is, a receiver established position first. But when out of the end zone (or partially anyway, as he was, he only had ONE foot in the end zone) I thought (and even if wrong, still think) the ball should have to break the plane.

 

On reviewing a better angle (how did they not have it during the game??) looks like he crossed the plane with the ball easily--there is a very clear shot of it from behind. For whatever reason during broadcast they kept showing that weird diagonal shot. Was driving me nuts.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Golden*Wheels

[Rochesterfan]

11 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 J Allen about to go out of bounds throws it to where only the receiver can catch it to the outside, ball did not cross end zone.   Very similar to the Know TD in the playoff versus the Pats but that specific case I dont know where the ball traveled to, just off the top of m,y head.

 

Depper in the end zone applies when the throw it out the back line and is aught in that regard the ball has crossed the end zone, that is not what I am describing.

 

For example - if Josh is rushing toward the sidelines - his feet are in bounds and he dives to avoid a big hit and nothing has touched down out of bound and he slings it sort of side arm and the ball stays over the white out of bound the entire way and Diggs dives with both toes down in the end zone and the ball is beyond the goal line- it would be a TD.  The ball on a catch does not have to be in the field of play - just the QB and the WR.
 

The ruling is the QB threw the ball while established in-bounds and the receiver caught the ball while established in bound - where the ball went does not matter as long as the catch was made beyond the front of the goal line.

 

Now take that exact scenario, but Diggs is coming back toward Josh at the goal line - he dives at a 45 degree angle to make the catch.  His feet are established in the end zone, but his hands are at the one yard line outside the end zone.  It is a catch, but the forward progress is not to the feet for a TD, but to where the ball was caught - so it would be downed at the 1 yard line - even if both feet were in the end zone.

 

The last part to this is in this second scenario- if as Diggs dives and makes the catch - he extends his arms trying to bring the ball past the goal line before being down - either touched or OOB - if he brings that ball past the goal line and it is inside or over the pylon it would be a TD.  If he extends his arm backwards, but the ball does not hit or go over the pylon it is still out of the field of play - it is not a TD and the ball is spotted at the spot it left the field of play.

 

 

[Gugny]

23 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I'm not disagreeing with that.

 

I'm saying that - at some point on its way to the receiver's hands - it's literally nearly impossible for the ball not to cross the plane.

 

EDIT:  Plenz's example (below) is the only way the ball doesn't cross the plane inside the pylons.

 

Josh is on the boundary, slings one sidearm to Diggs in the corner of the  endzone, ball travels in the air entirely out of bounds. Diggs toe drags, catches the ball while it is outside the boundary, the ball traveled the whole way outside of the boundary...that's a TD as long as he completes the process of the catch.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

If you did that and never actually went down while staying in bounds in the endzone the whole time, I'm not sure what they would do.

But if the ball is outside the pylon when you go down in the endzone or OB in the endzone, they won't call it a TD anymore.

A few years ago they would have (because of the infinite goalline), but it changed at some point in the last 2-3 years.

 

Based on this ^^^ I will go back to saying it's literally impossible for the ball to not cross the plane in bounds on a TD reception.

[Buffalo716]

27 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 J Allen about to go out of bounds throws it to where only the receiver can catch it to the outside, ball did not cross end zone.   Very similar to the Know TD in the playoff versus the Pats but that specific case I dont know where the ball traveled to, just off the top of m,y head.

 

Depper in the end zone applies when the throw it out the back line and is aught in that regard the ball has crossed the end zone, that is not what I am describing.

Again the plane of the end zone extends oob 

 

It’s why touching the pylon with the ball is a touchdown but the pylon is out of bounds 

 

The ball can cross the plane of the end zone even though it’s outside the field of play

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 

Based on this ^^^ I will go back to saying it's literally impossible for the ball to not cross the plane in bounds on a TD reception.

 

The QB's arm would have to be several feet OB and the receiver's hands would have to be several feet OB also.

Unless they were playing in a hurricane, but the NFL is too chickenspit for that anymore. 

 

And even in those scenarios it's probably still a score, because no ref is going ot make that call as incomplete.

[Warcodered]

54 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

That sounds like wishful thinking, though I guess it's probably standard operating procedure.

[Gugny]

Just now, Warcodered said:

That sounds like wishful thinking, though I guess it's probably standard operating procedure.

 

That was my initial reaction, too.  I feel bad for the guy.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

The QB's arm would have to be several feet OB and the receiver's hands would have to be several feet OB also.

Unless they were playing in a hurricane, but the NFL is too chickenspit for that anymore. 

 

I could see it if someone the size of Gabe Davis runs all the way across the end zone and has planted his toes at the sideline, Josh has scrambled right and is almost all the way at the sideline or just about to go out at lets say the 5 yard line. He throws it down the sideline. Ball is physically out of bounds, but still live/in play.

 

Davis, over 6ft, is falling forward AND has arms stretched out and catches the ball 5 feet out of bounds, but with toes still in. Catches, keeps his feet down, and then completes his fall.

 

I'd be very surprised for the refs to say "no TD". And I believe with Davis' feet still in bounds, it "makes" the ball still in bounds as well. If refs did say No TD, there would be a revolt and a rule change.

6 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

And even in those scenarios it's probably still a score, because no ref is going ot make that call as incomplete.

 

Agreed.

 

Side note: How awesome is it that the Bills are so good, this is what we spend our Monday's discussing now?

[Rochesterfan]

17 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

So you're saying if I'm running down the field right at the sideline, and right before I hit the end zone I hold the ball out to my side, and I reach farther then the outside of the pylon, it isnt a TD? Outside of the pylon isnt a TD even if I possess the ball and my feet are in bounds?

 

I believe the way it works is if you are in bounds and are still established in bounds in the end zone - you are fine, but if you leave your feet where you are no longer established as in bounds - the ball must be inside or they will mark you down where the ball was when you last established yourself inbounds and that is why you see those guys contort their body to get the ball back inside the pylon as the dive along the goal line.

 

Additionally if you were running down the sideline and dove and got hit knocking you well into the white OOB, but were spinning Ala John Elway - if while you are in the air before landing - if the ball crosses the goal line inside the pylon - it is a TD. If on the other hand you spun with the ball out of bound and that hit down first - even if part of you body landed in the e zone - if you were out of bounds first - the spot is were the ball left the field of play.

 

Think about the Superman dive Josh did a couple of years ago and how he worked super hard to ensure the ball hit the pylon.  That was critical for the TD.  There was another scramble where he got knocked out of bound inside the 10 - he was extending for the first down, but the marked him short and people got mad, but they marked him at the point where the ball crossed OOB as he was in the air because on landing he was no longer in bounds.

 

It is just a bunch of goofy scenarios that happen a bunch and can be critical, but they do a piss poor job of explaining on TV.  
 

 

[Chicken Boo]

47 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/theres-optimism-that-steelers-t-j-watt-did-not-fully-tear-his-pec-and-could-return-in-roughly-a-month/
 

There's optimism that Steelers' T.J. Watt did not fully tear his pec and could return in roughly a month
 

 

Is this like RGIII "partially tearing" his ACL or Kevin Durant "straining" his achilles.

 

Just call it a season and heal up, man.   

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

9 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Is this like RGIII "partially tearing" his ACL or Kevin Durant "straining" his achilles.

 

Just call it a season and heal up, man.   

 

The Durant reference is spot on. A bball player with a really bad “calf strain”— just asking for that Achilles tear. 

[Big Turk]

24 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

 

The Durant reference is spot on. A bball player with a really bad “calf strain”— just asking for that Achilles tear. 

 

Yeah...I mean I find it hard to believe it would heal up enough to not reoccur within the first game back with all the pushing and tackling they do that strains that area of the body

[frostbitmic]

If Watt is looking for 2nd and 3rd opinions on his pectoral tear, the opinion of the original doctor couldn't have been good.

[Simon]

33 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

If Watt is looking for 2nd and 3rd opinions on his pectoral tear, the opinion of the original doctor couldn't have been good.

 

If a team doc told him it's minor, he might be wanting to go outside and get another opinion before he goes out and makes it worse?

12 hours ago, Doc said:

Najee Harris with high ankle sprain as well.

 

Looks like they got good news on him also.

Says he'll be ready to go next week vs New England.

[Sherlock Holmes]

13 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Dude gets injured pulling off one guys helmet and then trying to behead the QB.  Tears his juiced up pec.  

 

Another Watt bro sidelined with pec injury (his bro bro is out with a bunch of torn bits as well).  Nothing to see here NFLPA and NFL!

 

11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

influenced to juice even more?

 

11 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Hate to see injuries. Also, he is a dirty player.

 

 

11 hours ago, Doc said:

See ya later, T Watt. 

 

9 hours ago, Freak-O said:

A torn pec is the kind of injury I associate with juiced up bodybuilders, where the muscle has outgrown its tendons. 

 

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah that's not a great example of him being a dirty player...........but he is never the least bit concerned that he may cheap shot someone.   If it won't draw a flag there is no restraint with him.   Example:  for most players there is a difference between a peanut punch and punching someone like you are in a street fight.......there is a measured restraint...........Watt isn't afraid to punch another player full force in the junk if he misses.   I'd be good with him on my team but as an opposing player I don't wish him well and I've always felt that he and JJ were roided up on another level than the average NFL player so these type of injuries eventually happen to heavy juicers, IMO.

 

7 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

These guys (the Watt bros.) seem fragile, and I would guess it's because they are juicing like crazy and are "puffed up" beyond their natural size and strength level.

 

They're like an F1 car that is so tweaked and hot-rodded, so close to the edge of breaking with regard to every component, that one problem comes along and BOOM....you have a failure.

 

Compare both those guys to a guy like Reggie White, who was just a natural horse and had "honest" size and strength without the need for juicing and much greater reliability as a result.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Oh, these guys are clean, they just eat a lot of protein and lift,  as I have been told several times by members here, 😂🤣😆,

 

6 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

The Watt bros should be using that TB12 miracle beverage. It not only miraculously heals whatever ails you but it halts the aging process and keeps you young forever. Julio Jones has said he was using it and he looked young again.

 

Has the NFL ever tested that stuff ? ... Coming from a guy who has some "shady" dealings to help him win in his past, random testing of that could be interesting.

 

5 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

You guys need to knock it off, Bosas and Watts are cleaner than a sterile surgery instrument...

Also for those of you that are turning this TJ Watt thread into a TD catch vs no TD catch thread please stop derailing this important thread with negative and non TJ Watt talk and get it back on track with some TJ Watt talk

[YoloinOhio]

 

[John from Riverside]

On 9/12/2022 at 4:23 AM, Doc said:

Najee Harris with high ankle sprain as well.

Well if they didn’t run him 300 million times a game

[Doc]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Well if they didn’t run him 300 million times a game

 

He's a 1st rounder.  Might as well get their money's worth.

[The Wiz]

20 hours ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You guys need to knock it off, Bosas and Watts are cleaner than a sterile surgery instrument...

Also for those of you that are turning this TJ Watt thread into a TD catch vs no TD catch thread please stop derailing this important thread with negative and non TJ Watt talk and get it back on track with some TJ Watt talk

Does this surgeon work for the cartel or the black market?

[BigAl2526]

The first week of football didn't quite put the Ravens in the driver's seat in the AFC North, but it came about as close as the first week in the schedule could.

[Simon]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Well if they didn’t run him 300 million times a game

 

Believe it or not he only had 4 carries at the half and finished with just 10; I was in a barn full of Stiller fans who were less than pleased.

The play he got hurt on was terrifying; it looked Napoleon McCallum gruesome on first viewing and didn't get a lot better on the second.

 

The Cruel Contortion Of Najee

 

 

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

[Hebert19]

Looks like 6 weeks.   He will miss bills game. 

[Dr.Sack]

I prefer him playing against Blo at 75%. 

[CorkScrewHill]

Going on IR .. officially can’t come back till the week after the Bills game. Big advantage for Buffalo.

[YoloinOhio]

On 9/13/2022 at 9:58 PM, Dr.Sack said:

I prefer him playing against Blo at 75%. 

Not happening, on IR now