Matt Araiza accused of rape, served with a lawsuit.

[CaliBills]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

The Bills “thorough investigation” didn’t include interviewing the victim.

 

Clown show

 

How can you interview a Jane Doe?  There is a reason the name is Jane Doe........  think for a few seconds 

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

6 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Bills need to stay the course.  Don't cut.  They are committed. If he will work in the NFL... Bills took all the damage.   Not much more can happen to them now.  Get him ready for opening day and press on.  It's a civil case.  Unless it goes criminal, which seems odd it would go back that way, then cut.

 

Bills paid the down payment on his talent.

 

Not much more can happen? Are you kidding?  I guarantee you McDermott is interested in having as few as possible additional pressers answering questions about this situation.  In fact, it'll probably be Beane who steps out today and explains why they are moving on, and rightfully so.

 

There are definitely sliding scales of justice in football, at almost all levels.  But a talented rookie punter is still basically a dime a dozen.

 

If jettisoned, I suppose there is a chance that Araiza could come back on another team and make the Bills regret cutting him, but that seems quite unlikely even if he turns out to be Ray Guy 2.0.  But doubling down on his talent at this point does not really seem to fit in with the DNA and culture of this very well run organization under the leadership of McDermott & Beane.

[NyBob85]

49 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

Serious question. Why do fans think this will derail the season? 
 

Do fans think Josh is sat thinking about this and not focused on the Rams?

 

Is Von Miller going to be so distracted he won’t be able to rush the passer?

 

I get it, it’s a bad look and bad for the Bills organizationally but I don’t get how it effects the players. Can anyone point me in a direction where something bad has happened to a football team PR wise and it’s completely derailed a season? Spygate was embarrassing for the Pats**, they proceeded to win 18 straight games. They went 12-4 and went to the AFC championship after Deflategate. Both of those situations had more to do with football and the game itself more than what a single player has done off the footballs field.

I generally agree, and if there's a silver lining from a football perspective it's that Araiza is brand new and hasn't had the time to develop many meaningful bonds or experiences with his teammates. If he had been a stalwart part of the team for a few years I'd definitely be more concerned about this situation affecting the team's collective psyche and chemistry. His brief tenure and clubhouse impact up to this point is just another reason to cut him loose now and keep his presence around the other players as inconsequential as possible. 

[Bubba Gump]

5 minutes ago, finn said:

I suspect this is what is really going on, much like the Watson case: They both did things they thought were ok and are shocked to hear them described in a context that makes them seem like rapists or harassers. Araiza is likely experiencing cognitive dissonance now: He can't conceive of himself as a rapist but he can't reconcile that view with the facts seen in an objective light. So, like Watson, he ends up in this weird place where he's basically saying, "Yeah, it happened, but I wasn't thinking of it as 'rape' at the time, so I'm innocent." 

 

If this is correct, he's making it ten times worse by letting his lawyer describe the girls as a "gold digger." 

 

Big difference though.....Watson over 20 accusations. Araiza just one. 

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Imagine that this guy hurt your daughter/cilent.  Personally, I don't need the money and I'd move right to plan B.  Either way, P's attorney couldn't get the money for his client to make her satisfied.  So you know what my plan B would be?  I'm going to hurt him.  Bad.  And for a long time.  Do my best to have the ability to send him a housewarming card when he gets to prison.  So the timing makes perfect sense.  He took her dignity, and now we're going to take his.  Hardball stuff, but that's what happens. 

You ask.  It happens all the time in settlement discussions.  Gotta show the principal (he/she with the money) how this is going to look if we don't settle.  

So are you saying you think he was asking the Bills to pay to settle the case? That would be highly unusual, since the Bills certainly couldn’t be held liable for what happened when Araiza was at SDSU…

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just now, Bubba Gump said:

 

And that's f'd up. If this comes to fruition and he is guilty, I really hope someone like Spencer Brown beats the ever loving ***** out of him. 

This isn't criminal.   If it goes back that route... Cut him.

 

It's civil.  She'll get something no matter what, unless there is other facts in his favor, he's liable for something. 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, CaliBills said:

 

How can you interview a Jane Doe?  There is a reason the name is Jane Doe........  think for a few seconds 

Lol you’re joking right? Her lawyer contacted the Bills a month ago. 

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

What I don't get is that he is a good looking dude. And yes, I am secure in my masculinity, lol. He could land any girl he wanted too. Idk why these guys get so stupid. They could have anything they want.

You don't think he got exactly what he wanted in that moment?

[Kirby Jackson]

Limiting all of the Araiza talk to this thread is absurd/stupid @SDS. There are SO many layers to it. There will be 25 different conversations at once. How the Bills are handling it is VASTLY different from “who they might replace him with?” You also have the layer of “how much did they know and when?” “What did they know when they released Haack?” There are so many different angles here I can’t understand why it is all being jammed into one conversation?!? This thread will be 400 pages and talk about 137 different things.  
 

The “over moderation” led me to a couple of year hiatus. I enjoy coming here to talk Bills but want to “get in and get out.” I’m curious as to people’s opinions on very specific topics. I don’t care to hear anyone chime in on “how the Bills are handling this” or “giving him the benefit of the doubt” or anything like that. I have an opinion on that and it isn’t changing and will be a hostile discussion (but one that warrants a place here). I ONLY care to hear people’s opinions on other options if Araiza is gone. I know that others feel the same way. We should ABSOLUTELY allow multiple Araiza threads right now. It is THE biggest Bills topic with lots of arms and legs. My $.02.
 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Kirby Jackson

[Draconator]

14 minutes ago, die hard bills fan said:

Ariza is finished.

He has been found guilty by the court of public opinion, and even if he is found innocent by the facts,  I doubt he plays in the nfl anymore. 

Obviously you don't know NFL history

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

The Bills “thorough investigation” didn’t include interviewing the victim.

 

Clown show

It’s likely her lawyer would not permit it.  I’m sure they asked.

Edited August 27, 2022 by mannc

[BuffaloBud17]

2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

This isn't criminal.   If it goes back that route... Cut him.

 

It's civil.  She'll get something no matter what, unless there is other facts in his favor, he's liable for something. 

 

There is still a criminal investigation ongoing from what I understand.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Wayne Cubed said:

Serious question. Why do fans think this will derail the season? 
 

Do fans think Josh is sat thinking about this and not focused on the Rams?

 

Is Von Miller going to be so distracted he won’t be able to rush the passer?

 

I get it, it’s a bad look and bad for the Bills organizationally but I don’t get how it effects the players. Can anyone point me in a direction where something bad has happened to a football team PR wise and it’s completely derailed a season? Spygate was embarrassing for the Pats**, they proceeded to win 18 straight games. They went 12-4 and went to the AFC championship after Deflategate. Both of those situations had more to do with football and the game itself more than what a single player has done off the footballs field.

 

The team looked flat last night and McDermott was clearly very shaken up. If they cut him now it won't derail the season. I fear that if they keep him around while the investigation continues the malaise will seep onto the field.

 

The only way I can see us keeping him on the team at this point is if the Bills investigation turned up some kind of smoking gun that proves Araiza had nothing to do with the alleged gang rape. But the longer we go without them showing us that smoking gun, the less likely it is that it exists.

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by HappyDays

[Bubba Gump]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

You don't think he got exactly what he wanted in that moment?

Well, not if he had to rape her. Such a touchy subject. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

It’s likely her lawyer would not permit it.  I’m sure they asked.

Than it is anything but a thorough investigation 

[ExiledInIllinois]

No time for McBean to lay up short.  The time was before they cut Haack.

[Draconator]

Just now, BuffaloBud17 said:

 

There is still a criminal investigation ongoing from what I understand.

But nothing has been determined on the criminal side of this. Or the Civil side for that matter. Just a lot of opinions. 

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, Shake_My_Head said:

With all due respect, what kind of "character misjudgement" on Ford approached even 0.000001% of the Ariza situation?   GMs miss on high draft choices all the time, and this is Beane's first major one in five years.  It's a part of football as old as time.   

 

The Punt God situation is totally different and unique and, IMO, can't be lumped into "two misses this week" in any way, shape or form.

How is Matt even a miss though?  This was not known before the draft by anyone.  Can’t blame Beane for also not knowing what wasn’t known by anyone.
 

This isn’t Beanes fault what so ever just like it’s not the Pats fault for giving a contract extension to a murderer.  Not like the Pats knew he murdered people and then gave him an extension.  Just like Beane didn’t draft Matt knowing he was going to be accused of gang rape.
 

 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

Lol you’re joking right? Her lawyer contacted the Bills a month ago. 

The Bills talked to her lawyer, from what I read. I imagine the lawyer would've given them plenty of details. Not sure he would allow them talk to her directly though. Or if she even wanted to. I don't think we can assume too much.

[BuffaloBud17]

From a football standpoint. This is obviously more serious than any game. If the Bills kept him, we win the Super Bowl and he is eventually convicted of rape. That would taint the Bills first Super Bowl win. 

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

How is Matt even a miss though?  This was not known before the draft by anyone.  Can’t blame Beane for also not knowing what wasn’t known by anyone.
 

This isn’t Beanes fault what so ever just like it’s not the Pats fault for giving a contract extension to a murderer.  Not like the Pats knew he murdered people and then gave him an extension.  Just like Beane didn’t draft Matt knowing he was going to be accused of gang rape.
 

 

Seems like the situation was common knowledge around SDSU and should have been uncovered with pre-draft vetting.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Limiting all of the Araiza talk to this thread is absurd/stupid @SDS. There are SO many layers to it. There will be 25 different conversations at once. How the Bills are handling it is VASTLY different from “who they might replace him with?” You also have the layer of “how much did they know and when?” “What did they know when they released Haack?” There are so many different angles here I can’t understand why it is all being jammed into one conversation?!? This thread will be 100 pages and talk about 37 different things.  
 

The “over moderation” led me to a couple of year hiatus. I enjoy coming here to talk Bills but want to “get in and get out.” I’m curious as to people’s opinions on very specific topics. I don’t care to hear anyone chime in on “how the Bills are handling this” or “giving him the benefit of the doubt” or anything like that. I have an opinion on that and it isn’t changing and will be a hostile discussion (but one that warrants a place here). I ONLY care to hear people’s opinions on other options if Araiza is gone. I know that others feel the same way. We should ABSOLUTELY allow multiple Araiza threads right now. It is THE biggest Bills topic with lots of arms and legs. My $.02.
 

 

Well said.

 

if you wanna close threads that are LAMP “My thoughts on the case” then I’m all for it.

 

but there are a million other things to talk about IRT this situation that can and should warrant their own thread.

 

To make it one topic, and of course have the same moderator as always floating around making hostile threats if you deviate, is silly. 

[BillsFan692]

7 hours ago, wppete said:

As an owner in the NFL and self proclaimed womens rights advocate Kim Pegula sat silent on the 24 civil law suits of sexual assault  on Deshaun Watson and as of now is doing the same for a disgusting and horrendous allegation of an employee of hers. Very telling.  Let’s see if she even comments on this. 

Uh didnt Kim recently suffer a major medical ailment that has her in the hospital for a long time? In fact is she not still recovering???

 

Your post seems absolutely absurd in light of that.

Edited August 27, 2022 by BillsFan692

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Limiting all of the Araiza talk to this thread is absurd/stupid @SDS. There are SO many layers to it. There will be 25 different conversations at once. How the Bills are handling it is VASTLY different from “who they might replace him with?” You also have the layer of “how much did they know and when?” “What did they know when they released Haack?” There are so many different angles here I can’t understand why it is all being jammed into one conversation?!? This thread will be 100 pages and talk about 37 different things.  
 

The “over moderation” led me to a couple of year hiatus. I enjoy coming here to talk Bills but want to “get in and get out.” I’m curious as to people’s opinions on very specific topics. I don’t care to hear anyone chime in on “how the Bills are handling this” or “giving him the benefit of the doubt” or anything like that. I have an opinion on that and it isn’t changing and will be a hostile discussion (but one that warrants a place here). I ONLY care to hear people’s opinions on other options if Araiza is gone. I know that others feel the same way. We should ABSOLUTELY allow multiple Araiza threads right now. It is THE biggest Bills topic with lots of arms and legs. My $.02.
 

 

Ok, what’s your opinion on “how the Bills are handling this”? 
 

Seems hard for me to believe the team didn’t have enough information when they cut Haack, but if they didn’t, it’s on them, not Araiza.

[Wayne Cubed]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The team looked flat last night and McDermott was clearly very shaken up. If they cut him now it won't derail the season. I fear that if they keep him around while the investigation continues the malaise will seep onto the field.

 

The only way I can see us keeping him on the team at this point is if the Bills investigation turned up some kind of smoking gun that proves Araiza had nothing to do with the alleged gang rape. But the longer we go without them shoeing us that smoking gun, the less likely it is that it exists.

How do we know it just wasn’t the fact that there weren’t any starters playing and it was A LOT of 3rd teams players or players who won’t make the team.

 

Bills organization has been a tough nut to crack with arrival of McBeane. You won’t hear anything unless they want you to.

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Than it is anything but a thorough investigation 

They can’t force her to talk, and they did talk to her lawyer, which is the best they could do.

[Ta111]

9 minutes ago, CaliBills said:

 

How can you interview a Jane Doe?  There is a reason the name is Jane Doe........  think for a few seconds 

Thinking is not permitted when you use emotion as your guide.

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloBud17 said:

 

There is still a criminal investigation ongoing from what I understand.

If that's true... It's dicey! Fasten seatbelts. 

 

Bills have been victimized too!  Why are we dwelling on the shame.  If anything, they were played. Why do we have to feel like bad guys?  Bills did nothing wrong? Fight or flight. I am more fight now than flight when it comes to our interests. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by ExiledInIllinois

[muppy]

18 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

From what I understand P's lawyer called the Bills first.  That's a pressure tactic.  

 

And before anyone starts with the money grab BS, if this was your kid I think you'd be fine with a nice, healthy, extremely large chunk of money to help in putting her back on the path to sound mental health.  It's one way of achieving justice.  And it avoids her having to testify in open court and go through all of the nonsense of a trial or trials.  It also provides closure.  Failing success in that respect, it's on to plan B, which appears to have been retribution.  ("You hurt me, now I'm really going to hurt you.")  Whatever was requested is a sum that Araiza surely wishes today that he had paid. 

my case went before the grand jury where i testified. Then the case was settled so I wouldn't have to testify and face my attacker. Perp was found guilty of Felony charges. no monetary reward. I'm adding this anecdotal info to the thread to unfortunately be qualified to speak on the victim side of this. I do hope this woman is strong enough to face her trauma and heal asap. The money would help so Yes I'd be a proponent of that.

Edited August 27, 2022 by muppy

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

Well, not if he had to rape her. Such a touchy subject. 

Their first interaction was consensual, wasn't it? Even by her account. After that, she's contending that Araiza set up the gang rape, which was obviously not consensual. And to your original point, not that it's entirely relevant, I don't think a punter and a couple backup linemen can get whatever they want.

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

The Bills talked to her lawyer, from what I read. I imagine the lawyer would've given them plenty of details. Not sure he would allow them talk to her directly though. Or if she even wanted to. I don't think we can assume too much.

She had already spoken publicly about her ordeal, plus the full details of her claim were known in the lawsuit.  Why wouldn’t the lawyer let the Bills reach out to her, with the lawyer present?

[ExiledInIllinois]

10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Limiting all of the Araiza talk to this thread is absurd/stupid @SDS. There are SO many layers to it. There will be 25 different conversations at once. How the Bills are handling it is VASTLY different from “who they might replace him with?” You also have the layer of “how much did they know and when?” “What did they know when they released Haack?” There are so many different angles here I can’t understand why it is all being jammed into one conversation?!? This thread will be 100 pages and talk about 37 different things.  
 

The “over moderation” led me to a couple of year hiatus. I enjoy coming here to talk Bills but want to “get in and get out.” I’m curious as to people’s opinions on very specific topics. I don’t care to hear anyone chime in on “how the Bills are handling this” or “giving him the benefit of the doubt” or anything like that. I have an opinion on that and it isn’t changing and will be a hostile discussion (but one that warrants a place here). I ONLY care to hear people’s opinions on other options if Araiza is gone. I know that others feel the same way. We should ABSOLUTELY allow multiple Araiza threads right now. It is THE biggest Bills topic with lots of arms and legs. My $.02.
 

 

Why I liked old-school board with threaded replies. 

[mannc]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

She had already spoken publicly about her ordeal, plus the full details of her claim were known in the lawsuit.  Why wouldn’t the lawyer let the Bills reach out to her, with the lawyer present?

It was reported somewhere that he refused, as I would expect him to. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Than it is anything but a thorough investigation 

You don’t contact a civil attorney, whose  100% biased and being paid by a client to win money for said client, to do your investigation.  Especially one that has been contacting the team in an effort to spur and push for a cash settlement.
 

A third party PI was hired to do the investigation which is 100% the proper path to take in any situation like this.  
 

And the Bills decisions were based on that investigators findings.  
 

IMHO they did it the right way by taking it to a 3rd party and steering clear of a civil attorney looking for money for his client.  Her attorney has released text messages already showing he was pushing for a settlement and emailing the Bills and the Bills attorney.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Their first interaction was consensual, wasn't it? Even by her account. After that, she's contending that Araiza set up the gang rape, which was obviously not consensual. And to your original point, not that it's entirely relevant, I don't think a punter and a couple backup linemen can get whatever they want.

Not sure about "setting up." IMO, he's very much liable for where he drops her off.  

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

They can’t force her to talk, and they did talk to her lawyer, which is the best they could do.

So they should have instead said “our investigation was limited to only the counterclaims of Matt Araiza and what we could find out second hand from others”. 
 

Instead, they said it was “thorough”.  That’s obviously a lie.  And ridiculous. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Crazy that this thread is over 200 pages and yet we all know the outcome. He is a punter (probably the least important starting position) and now a distraction to the team, and so he will be cut on or before Tuesday. 

[nedboy7]

“His admission was the thing that, when I started reading about this case, that just jumped out,” Dallas-based attorney Michelle Simpson Tuegel told the Democrat and Chronicle on Friday afternoon. “I was like, ‘Whoa,’ because there are a lot of cases I handle where we don’t have that kind of what I would consider bombshell evidence.”

 

Based on what she has read in the lawsuit, “I think it’s enough for them to charge him with a crime,” Simpson Tuegel said. “As a criminal defense lawyer or as a lawyer who now represents victims and has for years, I would say that is an admission and a problematic statement for him. He made an admission and she’s under age. I just don’t know how you get around those facts. That’s a real problem.”

 

Time to move on.  

 

[HOUSE]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You don’t contact a civil attorney, whose  100% biased and being paid by a client to win money for said client, to do your investigation.  Especially one that has been contacting the team in an effort to spur and push for a cash settlement.
 

A third party PI was hired to do the investigation which is 100% the proper path to take in any situation like this.  
 

And the Bills decisions were based on that investigators findings.  
 

IMHO they did it the right way by taking it to a 3rd party and steering clear of a civil attorney looking for money for his client.  Her attorney has released text messages already showing he was pushing for a settlement and emailing the Bills and the Bills attorney.  

 

So I wore this completely ridiculous thing .....just for you

 

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

How do we know it just wasn’t the fact that there weren’t any starters playing and it was A LOT of 3rd teams players or players who won’t make the team.

 

The team didn't look the same. The passion we're used to seeing on the sidelines wasn't there. Players interviewed after the game were uncomfortable talking about it. I'm not talking about the result, I'm talking about the look and feel of the team. I got the sense that no one from the coaches down to the players really cared about what was happening on the field. Maybe after two weeks that feeling will dissipate on its own no matter what happens. McDermott needs to take the pulse of the locker room and make the right decision for the team.