Contract Restructures

[machine gun kelly]

20 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Tuesday, you just gave me a belly laugh.  That movie was so stupid, but so darn funny.

 

I have to admit, I love some of that stupid humor like Mike Myers, Adam Sandler, and Jim Carry.  Besides he loves Buffalo.  He even made that God movie set in Buffalo.

18 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I sure did.  Used last year's numbers.  I will edit my post.

Thanks

A real man admits a mistake.  I certainly make enough of them.  We’ll done my Colorado friend.

 

Stay thirsty my friend.

[machine gun kelly]

9 hours ago, purple haze said:

Agree on Poyer.  But I believe one of the others gets done during the season.  Like what happened with Taron Johnson.  My bet is Knox.  

Agreed.  They don’t want to lose Knox.  Next year Oliver, and Gabe probably.  
 

Poyer might be getting the short straw and I hate it as his play hasn’t declined even slightly, but we can’t pay some of these stupid contracts like what has come out lately.  Singletary is gone or accepts a modest contract, and Bernard has a red shirt year, but will back up Edmunds.

 

Its good business.  These WR contracts lately have been ridiculous.  I really hope we can retain Gabe, but that’s for another day.

[K-9]

42 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

If they let Knox go to Tennessee in his prime in the name of keeping ED OLIVER, I will lose my mind.

 

First, they pass up on a guy who's set franchise records receiving in Seattle for him, then let the best TE we've had in 20 years go? Yeah that wouldn't be good.

 

Unless the Bills tag him, if Knox wants to go to Tennessee he will. As a free agent, the team won’t be in a position to let him do anything or not. And Ed Oliver won’t have anything to do with it. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

16 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Unless the Bills tag him, if Knox wants to go to Tennessee he will. As a free agent, the team won’t be in a position to let him do anything or not. And Ed Oliver won’t have anything to do with it. 

 

You're missing the point. I'd rather they extend Knox than Oliver. TE is more of a premium than DT.

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

You're missing the point. I'd rather they extend Knox than Oliver. TE is more of a premium than DT.

 

 

 

In a conference with so many good QB's, anyone who can get to the passer is a premium.  Its why Chandler Jones, Khalil Mack and Von Miller were all signed to AFC teams...

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

You're missing the point. I'd rather they extend Knox than Oliver. TE is more of a premium than DT.

 

 

 

In what way(s) do you mean?

 

The tag number on TEs is remarkably low. Like less than $11M. It would effectively be like a 5th year option to tag him while we sign Ed to a big contract.

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

In a conference with so many good QB's, anyone who can get to the passer is a premium.  Its why Chandler Jones, Khalil Mack and Von Miller were all signed to AFC teams...

 

As much as I roll my eyes at the nonstop high end defensive investment on this team, I actually agree here.   

 

IF Ed Oliver proves to be a top tier pass rusher from the interior, he's a priority over anyone else.. including Knox.

 

In order: 

 

1) Oliver

2) Knox

3) Davis (Top end WR's tend to start looking for new contracts with a year left on their deal)

4) Edmunds

 

*In all honesty, I wouldn't make much of an effort to extend Singletary or Poyer. 

 

*Also, If Saffold stays healthy and has a good year, I would look at bringing him back.  

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by SCBills

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

You're missing the point. I'd rather they extend Knox than Oliver. TE is more of a premium than DT.

 

 

Your feelings on Oliver as a player since he was drafted are well known 😄 and I understand your point. I was just addressing your suggestion that the Bills might  “let” Knox go to Tennessee. Unless tagged, teams are simply not in a position to “let” free agents go anywhere. 

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

As much as I roll my eyes at the nonstop high end defensive investment on this team, I actually agree here.   

 

IF Ed Oliver proves to be a top tier pass rusher from the interior, he's a priority over anyone else.. including Knox.

 

In order: 

 

1) Oliver

2) Knox

3) Davis (Top end WR's tend to start looking for new contracts with a year left on their deal)

4) Edmunds

 

*In all honesty, I wouldn't make much of an effort to extend Singletary or Poyer. 

 

*Also, If Saffold stays healthy and has a good year, I would look at bringing him back.  

 

Yes and no on Oliver over Knox, we have Oliver next year technically while this is the last year of Knox's contract.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

In what way(s) do you mean?

 

The tag number on TEs is remarkably low. Like less than $11M. It would effectively be like a 5th year option to tag him while we sign Ed to a big contract.

 

The NFL is slanted heavily to favor the offense. Investment there is wiser than in defense.

 

With some limited exceptions of course for positions of high worth: DE/CB being most notable. I wouldn't spend big $ on DTs, LBs or Safeties.

 

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Your feelings on Oliver as a player since he was drafted are well known 😄 and I understand your point. I was just addressing your suggestion that the Bills might  “let” Knox go to Tennessee. Unless tagged, teams are simply not in a position to “let” free agents go anywhere. 

 

Thanks for the clarification

 

[Punching Bag]

43 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

 

Poyer might be getting the short straw and I hate it as his play hasn’t declined even slightly, but we can’t pay some of these stupid contracts like what has come out lately.  

 

 

Agree about Poyer.  They did a stunt in game to free a DL to blitz around end and Poyer engaged Offense Lineman. Offense Lineman gave him a look "Who do you think you are?" and Poyertwo hand pushed him into backfield preventing QB from staying in pocket.

 

But Bills unfortunately need to find money for future and while other teams can afford to pay a safety this much Bills can't.

Poyer hopefully will talk to Shaq Lawson and Jordan Phillips; the grass is not always greener on the football fields.

[Punching Bag]

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/micah-hyde-12440/

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/jordan-poyer-12500/#

 

I am a fan of both Hyde and Poyer (I was advocate of Bills signing Hyde as soon as he was available from Green Bay) but Coach McD's defense has depended too much on those two players and both are being paid well now.  Poyer is pushing for extension due to new money contract & new agent but with NFL hyperinflation everything costs more and there is not much money to be spared.  I could see adding incentives to contracts especially playoff win bonuses and Superbowl bonuses.

 

Just because another player got paid (or overpaid i.e. Brown's QB) does not necessarily mean all players will get ridiculous raises.  

I would have same opinion if Josh got new agent and pushed for Bills to match Deshaun Watson's contract.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/strong-safety/

[Airseven]

Hopefully any freed up money goes toward a Knox extension just before the opener.

 

NO MORE EXTENSIONS FOR THESE SAFETIES!

[purple haze]

12 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Agreed.  They don’t want to lose Knox.  Next year Oliver, and Gabe probably.  
 

Poyer might be getting the short straw and I hate it as his play hasn’t declined even slightly, but we can’t pay some of these stupid contracts like what has come out lately.  Singletary is gone or accepts a modest contract, and Bernard has a red shirt year, but will back up Edmunds.

 

Its good business.  These WR contracts lately have been ridiculous.  I really hope we can retain Gabe, but that’s for another day.

I hope they can do something for Poyer.  Him and Hyde have a big hand in this turnaround.  I don’t see Motor costing a lot and he is a good player.  How much does the cap go up is what we need to find out.

[machine gun kelly]

4 hours ago, purple haze said:

I hope they can do something for Poyer.  Him and Hyde have a big hand in this turnaround.  I don’t see Motor costing a lot and he is a good player.  How much does the cap go up is what we need to find out.

The latest guesstimates, but who knows of these pundits are right.  I think it was Brandt who posited the cap should hit $226 mil. or so in 23, and $256 mil. In 24.  2024 will be the first year the cap gets back on track with its original trajectory of adding about $8 mil/yr. if we never had the pandemic.

 

Listen I’d love to extend Poyer for two years at $11 mil., but with these recent astronomical contracts, he’s not going to accept it.  He’ll want on his last contract to cash in on his 1st team all pro status.  We have Hyde through the end of 2023, and then he’ll be 34.

 

My opinion is we are going to extend the guys I mentioned above is Knox, Oliver, and Davis.  Motor will have to accept an economical deal as RB’s doesn’t make that kind of money anymore.  Ask Dallas and NYG if they’d want to move on from those contracts for Zeke and Barkley.

[GunnerBill]

17 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

As much as I roll my eyes at the nonstop high end defensive investment on this team, I actually agree here.   

 

IF Ed Oliver proves to be a top tier pass rusher from the interior, he's a priority over anyone else.. including Knox.

 

In order: 

 

1) Oliver

2) Knox

3) Davis (Top end WR's tend to start looking for new contracts with a year left on their deal)

4) Edmunds

 

*In all honesty, I wouldn't make much of an effort to extend Singletary or Poyer. 

 

*Also, If Saffold stays healthy and has a good year, I would look at bringing him back.  

 

 

I would actually flip Knox and Davis if Davis has a big year.  To me it is 1) Oliver, 2) Davis if he has the year I expect, 3) Knox and I'd find a way to extend all 3... and that probably means I'm letting Edmunds go. I'm not an Edmunds hater but he would be 4th on that list by far. I'm also letting Poyer go and I am as big a fan of him as there is. I just think this is his last year here. And Devin go too. I'd draft another running back next year, but not before the 5th. PLEASE no more day 2 picks. 3 in 4 years is way too much investment in the position. 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I would actually flip Knox and Davis if Davis has a big year.  To me it is 1) Oliver, 2) Davis if he has the year I expect, 3) Knox and I'd find a way to extend all 3... and that probably means I'm letting Edmunds go. I'm not an Edmunds hater but he would be 4th on that list by far. I'm also letting Poyer go and I am as big a fan of him as there is. I just think this is his last year here. And Devin go too. I'd draft another running back next year, but not before the 5th. PLEASE no more day 2 picks. 3 in 4 years is way too much investment in the position. 

No issue there at all.  If Davis balls out, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he becomes a huge priority this off-season given how WR contracts have been going. 
 

I think most of us love Poyer as a person and player, but we just don’t have the cap space to be allocating so much to Safety.  
 

Only caveat I could see with Edmunds would be extending him if he has a great year and then trading Milano.  Bernard just seems like such a natural fit to step right in there. 

[JDubya76]

On 8/23/2022 at 6:31 PM, FilthyBeast said:

Beane did mention a restructure but probably would be with one of the backup/role player types on the roster.

[ganesh]

On 8/24/2022 at 8:44 PM, Joe in Winslow said:

 

If they let Knox go to Tennessee in his prime in the name of keeping ED OLIVER, I will lose my mind.

 

First, they pass up on a guy who's set franchise records receiving in Seattle for him, then let the best TE we've had in 20 years go? Yeah that wouldn't be good.

 

Any TE would look good with Josh Allen throwing to him.  Knox is a good TE, but he is not a super star. He has too many drops; However. he does come up big in clutch istuations.

[Dopey]

On 8/24/2022 at 12:57 PM, Limeaid said:

 

Agree about Poyer.  They did a stunt in game to free a DL to blitz around end and Poyer engaged Offense Lineman. Offense Lineman gave him a look "Who do you think you are?" and Poyertwo hand pushed him into backfield preventing QB from staying in pocket.

 

But Bills unfortunately need to find money for future and while other teams can afford to pay a safety this much Bills can't.

Poyer hopefully will talk to Shaq Lawson and Jordan Phillips; the grass is not always greener on the football fields.

The grass might not be greener, but the $ is. I said Bates would take more money over offer we gave. Had one person argue the point. " He should sign with a SB contender if he wants to win." He signed a bigger contract that we were able to match. Otherwise he was gone to "greener" pastures. Poyer should/ would do the same. It's always been about the $.

Just ask Von " I wanted to play for the cowboys" Miller.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

14 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Any TE would look good with Josh Allen throwing to him.  Knox is a good TE, but he is not a super star. He has too many drops; However. he does come up big in clutch istuations.

How about Tommy Sweeney? He look good?

 

OJ Howard? How's he been looking?

 

Knox is a playmaker. He produced 10 TD catches last year. He needs to be priority one, not a DT whose sack numbers are -at their most generous- mediocre.

 

[pennstate10]

On 8/23/2022 at 3:46 PM, marck said:

If the Bills restructure let’s say Tredavious’s deal at add another 6.5 million in cap space do you think it’s money for next year, an extension for Edmunds or Poyer or to bring in another higher priced player in a trade.

“If the Bills restructure let’s say Tredavious’s deal at add another 6.5 million in cap space”
 

Pretty good Karnak!  Can you tell me this seems powerball numbers while you’re at it?

 

Oh, that’s a curious way to spell Dion. 
 

in any case good call!

[No_Matter_What]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I would actually flip Knox and Davis if Davis has a big year.  To me it is 1) Oliver, 2) Davis if he has the year I expect, 3) Knox and I'd find a way to extend all 3... and that probably means I'm letting Edmunds go. I'm not an Edmunds hater but he would be 4th on that list by far. I'm also letting Poyer go and I am as big a fan of him as there is. I just think this is his last year here. And Devin go too. I'd draft another running back next year, but not before the 5th. PLEASE no more day 2 picks. 3 in 4 years is way too much investment in the position. 

This is extremely well put even for you Gunner 👍 Agree with everything. Extend those 3, let go Edmunds and Poyer even though I don't mind Edmunds and I love what Poyer brings. Can't pay everyone so we need to choose wisely.

 

And I do believe that Beane thinks in these lines too. Only problem I see that I still don't see how it is possible not to extend Poyer now. Will he really play if they don't agree on something? I hope so but I am skeptic. But it is best for the team imo.

 

Minor thing re Singletary - if he has a good year I'd try to extend him on terms very favorable to Bills. Something really cheap. Maybe he takes it.

 

EDIT: I also think that without this Poyer issue one of Oliver/Knox would be extended through this season. Something like Taron last year. But if Poyer is not extended then it might create some bad blood to extend someone important before him, so Beane might be forced to wait until the season ends. Which will cost us money probably.

Edited August 25, 2022 by No_Matter_What

[Warriorspikes51]

So what's our offer?  2 year deal backloaded with incentives and easy out after 1 year? 

[Beck Water]

On 8/23/2022 at 3:46 PM, K-9 said:

PS players don’t count against the cap. 

 

On 8/23/2022 at 3:53 PM, No_Matter_What said:

They do. I can't find official rules quickly but just google it every NFL article says and it was like that last year. It will be around $4M this year total.

 

I believe K-9 is incorrect, and No_Matter_What is correct.

I laid out my understanding and linked one reference I found here:

 

Hope this helps.

 

( Actually Googling is remarkably uninformative on this topic, at least to the search terms I entered.  So I fell back on looking for articles by people who previously showed me they know something)

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

So what's our offer?  2 year deal backloaded with incentives and easy out after 1 year? 

I would probably think OBJ wants the flexibility of a one year deal. Hoping to come in at the back end of the season and showcase himself and set himself up for a bigger opportunity and a destination of his choosing. I don’t hate bringing him in the outside WR depth could use some help and I think the idea of him as a distraction is over blown his teammates love him. 
 

If he signs with the Rams that’s no biggie I don’t think the Bills really need him but it would be fun to see him come back with the Bills.

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

How about Tommy Sweeney? He look good?

 

OJ Howard? How's he been looking?

 

Knox is a playmaker. He produced 10 TD catches last year. He needs to be priority one, not a DT whose sack numbers are -at their most generous- mediocre.

 

Knox isn’t an elite game changing TE but he is pretty dam good. What I like most about him is the physical nature of his play. Knox bowls over DB’s and some LB’s, I think that adds a lot to the offense and helps the defense get worn down.

[ColoradoBills]

On 8/23/2022 at 4:47 PM, Georgie said:

It isn't necessarily 207,000,is it? I thought there is a range from about 9500 to 14000 weekly salary depending on service time.

 

The $207k cost is the standard minimum for all PS players.  The vast majority of ST players play for that amount.  What is an option is

for teams to pay more than that.  Positions have no bearing on this.  Last year (if I remember correctly) the Bills paid a couple or so players

about 20%-30% more.  This season a guy like Barkley (if he goes to PS like I expect) could easily be one of the guys getting more.

Guys like Love and others have been with the team (mostly on PS) for years tend to be eligible for more.

 

We will all know next Thursday!

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

I believe K-9 is incorrect, and No_Matter_What is correct.

I laid out my understanding and linked one reference I found here:

 

Hope this helps.

 

( Actually Googling is remarkably uninformative on this topic, at least to the search terms I entered.  So I fell back on looking for articles by people who previously showed me they know something)

Yeah, we figured it all out a couple days ago in subsequent posts in this thread. Turns out the ESPN article I linked was the ONLY article to state that PS players DON’T count against the cap. I should have read other articles before posting that link. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by K-9

[BillsSbSoon]

There’s no way imo they will let Oliver walk. You don’t sign a von miller at this point in his career only to let your best interior pass rusher go. He has to be a priority. Knox will get done. The real question that remains is edmunds and making that work or not. They’ve stressed drafting, developing and resigning our own. If they let him walk it will speak volumes 

Edited August 25, 2022 by BillsSbSoon

[purple haze]

On 8/25/2022 at 2:06 AM, machine gun kelly said:My opinion is we are going to extend the guys I mentioned above is Knox, Oliver, and Davis.  Motor will have to accept an economical deal as RB’s doesn’t make that kind of money anymore.  Ask Dallas and NYG if they’d want to move on from those contracts for Zeke and Barkley.

I hear you.  Dallas definitely does.

[YoloinOhio]

The thread on this from yesterday got locked, I don’t know why because all it shows now in the thread is the OP. So I’ll put this here as I’m not sure if a new thread on it is ok.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[SoCal Deek]

21 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

The thread on this from yesterday got locked, I don’t know why because all it shows now in the thread is the OP. So I’ll put this here as I’m not sure if a new thread on it is ok.

 

 

Obviously a move to free up space for Zach Ertz. Get ‘er done! 😉

[benderbender]

On 8/23/2022 at 3:46 PM, marck said:

If the Bills restructure let’s say Tredavious’s deal at add another 6.5 million in cap space do you think it’s money for next year, an extension for Edmunds or Poyer or to bring in another higher priced player in a trade.

Edmunds takes away extensions with his size and length. It's the extensions you don't see... 🤡

[RyanC883]

obj?!?!!?