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RD 1, Pick 23: CB Kaiir Elam, Florida


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11 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

You could tell the cowboys were planning to take him. Jerry looked  pissed and then they took the entire 15 minutes to make their pick 

I thought so too Yolo. Elam's father was a former Cowboy. CB should be a need for them and would've been a good storyline for Jerry. 

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2 hours ago, mannc said:

Don't get me wrong...I like the pick a lot...just not convinced that the move up was necessary.

Yeah it's always hard to tell with short jumps, but one of two things is true...

 

A - With only 1 first round player left as he claimed Beane got itchy and has paper hands, jumped up to get his guy. 

 

B - They legitimately think very highly of this kid not just as a typical first rounder and had info they considered potentially true that Dallas or another team (via trade) would take him.

 

Either way they gave up a 4th, ho hum. If he pans out and becomes a good starter no one cares. 

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2 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:


Hope this finally destroys the notion of Best Player Available. The fact that so many trades occur in the 1st round should’ve done this, but Beane has come out and clearly said it. 


Look I don’t disagree that need plays a part… but Beane also said that he was the only Round 1 grade left on the board so doesn’t that mean he was BPA..

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23 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:


Look I don’t disagree that need plays a part… but Beane also said that he was the only Round 1 grade left on the board so doesn’t that mean he was BPA..

I would say that he is both. 

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19 hours ago, K-9 said:

Good take. Some people here are only focused on Dallas as the team we jumped in front of, but that’s myopic at best. These GMs aren’t shy about telling each other who’s calling who with what offers. Beane may or may not have been concerned with Dallas, but there were other teams on the phone with the Ravens inquiring about pick 23 I guarantee it. And I think your hunch about the Titans is spot on.

The Titans taking a CB at 34 is more evidence that the Bills might’ve traded up in order to prevent the Titans from stealing Elam away.

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9 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The 4th only would have allowed them to move up 4 spots in the 2nd and 8 spots in the 3rd.  If there's a guy they want that badly in either of those rounds, trade a 2023 draft pick in a package.  And no one knows who would have done what had the Ravens traded him to someone else, or if the Cowboys would have taken him (I think they would have and Beane knew it).  But it was still worth spending if it meant ensuring getting a need who was also BPA.

Trading up 4 spots would’ve been amazing right here….but noooooooo.  🤣 

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Kaiir didn't attend just any old Sabres game. With Josh Allen as company, he attended RJ's Last Call and Fan Appreciation Night. The game was epic and so was RJ's Last Call and the good byes that he expressed. Congratulations to Casey Mittelstadt for his OT goal.

 

Thanks Kaiir for integrating so quickly into the Buffalo community. Thanks for asking for that playbook so quickly. You're going to do just fine here.

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19 hours ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

Every team knows the Bills would be looking hard at CBs and you have to assume some teams would be willing to jump in front of Buffalo to grab the last CB with a 1st rd grade. 

Bills were calling teams starting at pick #20 from what i understand, before they found their partner at #23. If they sat back and watch another team trade with Dallas they would of probably regretted it. So they made the move to get a guy they had ranked as a 1st rd talent at a position where teams were gobbling up the position.

It would be nice to still have the 4th, but not sure it would of been worth it as our need for a solid CB#2 was well known need.



 

 

This is very interesting.

 

I don't think they were calling to get to 20 for Elam.

 

Here is why:

 

IF the Bills had Elam as the best rated DB on their board, it seems strange they'd be worried about going up for him when McDuffie was still available.  The reason being, McDuffie has been rated higher and been mocked higher than McDuffie throughout the scouting and draft process.  Many mocks had him as a top 15 pick..and some even had him inside the top 10.  Some ranking had him ranked ahead of Stinglely.  Elams has never been mocked that high and never shows up in any scouting services, any big board etc as a top 15 pick.  The highest I saw him was 17th.  Generally he's been a guy slated in the 28-34 range.  

 

Even if the Bills had Elam ranked higher than McDuffie (possible..we'll never know) then it would still be reasonable to think that most teams probably had McDuffie higher and that he'd be drafted before Elam, by some team just making their pick or by a team moving up.  Veach specifically saying that KC moved to 21 to get ahead of Buffalo suggests  (but isn't proof) that the Bills were trying manuever to get McDuffie.  Veach clearly had reason to think that McDuffie was the Bills target.  It's a fact that KC took McDuffie...so KC wasn't trying to move up to 21 because they were concerned Elam wouldn't be there. 

 

Given that McDuffie had been ranked appreciably higher by available sources, it doesn't seem like Elam was the guy the Bills were coveting when making calls to move up to as high as 20.    

 

That isn't to take away from Elam at all.  If KC couldn't make a trade...or if McDuffie was off the board at 15 or whatever and KC was sitting at 29..and the Bills at 25, also are still looking at him as the high end, round 1 talent that he is...that there is still a manuever by KC, the Bills or another team, to try and get him.  I'm not knocking the player or the pick.  I just don't think Elam was higher on the Bills board.  I do believe that they absolutely saw him/see him as a round 1, high end prospect worth securing with a high pick.  Elam was a guy KC fans often would disucss as a real possibility at 29/30 and was a popular guy to mock to KC there.  KC fans would have been happy to have ended up with him for all the same reasons you guys are glad to have him.

 

 

 

16 hours ago, Logic said:

I had forgotten that Cowboys presumed CB2 Kelvin Joseph is in legal trouble and is potentially facing charges.

 

Given that fact, Elam’s fit in a Dan Quinn defense, and the sullen looking Cowboys draft room…

 

I think there’s at least a pretty good chance the Cowboys would have taken Elam if we hadn’t jumped up. At the very least, it’s easy to see why Beane thought it was a strong possibility.

 

I live in the Dallas Ft Worth area...this is a LEGIT reason to believe the Cowboys would have in fact taken Elam.  Considering their fallback plan was..............................Tyler Smith?  A project OT/G.....there is NO CHANCE Smith was rated higher than Elam on the Cowboys draft board.  NONE. 

 

11 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The move that I thought was more interesting was the Chiefs (if I recall) moving up to get in front of Green Bay, and then the Packers took less than five seconds to make their pick. What was that about? I believe the Chiefs got rolled.

 

The Chiefs didn't go to 21 to jump the Packers.  21 was where you had to get in order to land McDuffie.  KC was surely not the only team asking about 21....and considedring KC paid a 3rd and 4th move up from 29...it would seem there were other bidders and KC had to overpay to get there.  .....the move was to get to 21 to secure the pick VS other teams vying to get to 21....not to jump GB.

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1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

This is very interesting.

 

I don't think they were calling to get to 20 for Elam.

 

Here is why:

 

IF the Bills had Elam as the best rated DB on their board, it seems strange they'd be worried about going up for him when McDuffie was still available.  The reason being, McDuffie has been rated higher and been mocked higher than McDuffie throughout the scouting and draft process.  Many mocks had him as a top 15 pick..and some even had him inside the top 10.  Some ranking had him ranked ahead of Stinglely.  Elams has never been mocked that high and never shows up in any scouting services, any big board etc as a top 15 pick.  The highest I saw him was 17th.  Generally he's been a guy slated in the 28-34 range.  

 

Even if the Bills had Elam ranked higher than McDuffie (possible..we'll never know) then it would still be reasonable to think that most teams probably had McDuffie higher and that he'd be drafted before Elam, by some team just making their pick or by a team moving up.  Veach specifically saying that KC moved to 21 to get ahead of Buffalo suggests  (but isn't proof) that the Bills were trying manuever to get McDuffie.  Veach clearly had reason to think that McDuffie was the Bills target.  It's a fact that KC took McDuffie...so KC wasn't trying to move up to 21 because they were concerned Elam wouldn't be there. 

 

Given that McDuffie had been ranked appreciably higher by available sources, it doesn't seem like Elam was the guy the Bills were coveting when making calls to move up to as high as 20.    

 

That isn't to take away from Elam at all.  If KC couldn't make a trade...or if McDuffie was off the board at 15 or whatever and KC was sitting at 29..and the Bills at 25, also are still looking at him as the high end, round 1 talent that he is...that there is still a manuever by KC, the Bills or another team, to try and get him.  I'm not knocking the player or the pick.  I just don't think Elam was higher on the Bills board.  I do believe that they absolutely saw him/see him as a round 1, high end prospect worth securing with a high pick.  Elam was a guy KC fans often would disucss as a real possibility at 29/30 and was a popular guy to mock to KC there.  KC fans would have been happy to have ended up with him for all the same reasons you guys are glad to have him.

 

 

 

 

I live in the Dallas Ft Worth area...this is a LEGIT reason to believe the Cowboys would have in fact taken Elam.  Considering their fallback plan was..............................Tyler Smith?  A project OT/G.....there is NO CHANCE Smith was rated higher than Elam on the Cowboys draft board.  NONE. 

 

 

The Chiefs didn't go to 21 to jump the Packers.  21 was where you had to get in order to land McDuffie.  KC was surely not the only team asking about 21....and considedring KC paid a 3rd and 4th move up from 29...it would seem there were other bidders and KC had to overpay to get there.  .....the move was to get to 21 to secure the pick VS other teams vying to get to 21....not to jump GB.

 

Veach may well have thought the Bills wanted McDuffie. They met with him, they had a need at corner. Personally I am sceptical he wae ever the target and have been saying that on here for weeks. He just doesn't fit what they look for and this regime in Buffalo does not go against their tendencies very often if at all when it comes to drafting. 

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19 hours ago, Perry Turtle said:

White and Elam could be the best pair of cornerbacks the Bills have ever had.

 

That raises a good question

  • Butch Byrd-Booker Edgerson
  • Robert James-Tony Greene (before he switched to safety)
  • Mario Clark-Charles Romes
  • Antoine Winfield-Nate Clements

Seems like I'm missing one more pair.

 

16 hours ago, Doc said:

And the Ravens were obviously shopping the 23rd pick to more than just the Bills.  That's common sense.

 

This.

 

Any team that's willing to trade down is obviously going to shop that pick to as many teams as possible to maximize their compensation.

 

It's more likely than not that there was at least one other team interested in pick 23.

Edited by Sierra Foothills
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3 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

That raises a good question

  • Butch Byrd-Booker Edgerson
  • Robert James-Tony Greene (before he switched to safety)
  • Mario Clark-Charles Romes
  • Antoine Winfield-Nate Clements

 

 

I always thought it was easily Winfield Clements (the others were before my time)

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5 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

This is very interesting.

 

I don't think they were calling to get to 20 for Elam.

 

Here is why:

 

IF the Bills had Elam as the best rated DB on their board, it seems strange they'd be worried about going up for him when McDuffie was still available.  The reason being, McDuffie has been rated higher and been mocked higher than McDuffie throughout the scouting and draft process.  Many mocks had him as a top 15 pick..and some even had him inside the top 10.  Some ranking had him ranked ahead of Stinglely.  Elams has never been mocked that high and never shows up in any scouting services, any big board etc as a top 15 pick.  The highest I saw him was 17th.  Generally he's been a guy slated in the 28-34 range.  

 

Even if the Bills had Elam ranked higher than McDuffie (possible..we'll never know) then it would still be reasonable to think that most teams probably had McDuffie higher and that he'd be drafted before Elam, by some team just making their pick or by a team moving up.  Veach specifically saying that KC moved to 21 to get ahead of Buffalo suggests  (but isn't proof) that the Bills were trying manuever to get McDuffie.  Veach clearly had reason to think that McDuffie was the Bills target.  It's a fact that KC took McDuffie...so KC wasn't trying to move up to 21 because they were concerned Elam wouldn't be there. 

 

Given that McDuffie had been ranked appreciably higher by available sources, it doesn't seem like Elam was the guy the Bills were coveting when making calls to move up to as high as 20.    

 

That isn't to take away from Elam at all.  If KC couldn't make a trade...or if McDuffie was off the board at 15 or whatever and KC was sitting at 29..and the Bills at 25, also are still looking at him as the high end, round 1 talent that he is...that there is still a manuever by KC, the Bills or another team, to try and get him.  I'm not knocking the player or the pick.  I just don't think Elam was higher on the Bills board.  I do believe that they absolutely saw him/see him as a round 1, high end prospect worth securing with a high pick.  Elam was a guy KC fans often would disucss as a real possibility at 29/30 and was a popular guy to mock to KC there.  KC fans would have been happy to have ended up with him for all the same reasons you guys are glad to have him.

 

The Chiefs didn't go to 21 to jump the Packers.  21 was where you had to get in order to land McDuffie.  KC was surely not the only team asking about 21....and considedring KC paid a 3rd and 4th move up from 29...it would seem there were other bidders and KC had to overpay to get there.  .....the move was to get to 21 to secure the pick VS other teams vying to get to 21....not to jump GB.



We'll never know for sure, but I think Elam fits the profile of what this regime looks for in first rounders more than McDuffie. They like to get young, elite athletes who have room to grow, then turn them over to their coaching staff and entrust them to coach the kids up. To that end, as awesome as McDuffie already is, I don't believe he has the same room for growth or as a high a ceiling as Elam. I think McDuffie will be a high floor, dependable player who starts in this league for a decade+. A very safe pick. I think Elam is a "swing for the fences" guy who, though his floor is not as high as McDuffie's, has a higher ceiling.

There's also the physical attributes of Elam vs McDuffie -- particularly McDuffie's arms being much shorter than this staff prefers -- that make me question their interest in McDuffie.

We'll never know for sure. It's possible that you're right. I also think there's reason to believe you might not be.

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5 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

This is very interesting.

 

I don't think they were calling to get to 20 for Elam.

 

Here is why:

 

IF the Bills had Elam as the best rated DB on their board, it seems strange they'd be worried about going up for him when McDuffie was still available.  The reason being, McDuffie has been rated higher and been mocked higher than McDuffie throughout the scouting and draft process.  Many mocks had him as a top 15 pick..and some even had him inside the top 10.  Some ranking had him ranked ahead of Stinglely.  Elams has never been mocked that high and never shows up in any scouting services, any big board etc as a top 15 pick.  The highest I saw him was 17th.  Generally he's been a guy slated in the 28-34 range.  

 

Even if the Bills had Elam ranked higher than McDuffie (possible..we'll never know) then it would still be reasonable to think that most teams probably had McDuffie higher and that he'd be drafted before Elam, by some team just making their pick or by a team moving up.  Veach specifically saying that KC moved to 21 to get ahead of Buffalo suggests  (but isn't proof) that the Bills were trying manuever to get McDuffie.  Veach clearly had reason to think that McDuffie was the Bills target.  It's a fact that KC took McDuffie...so KC wasn't trying to move up to 21 because they were concerned Elam wouldn't be there. 

 

Given that McDuffie had been ranked appreciably higher by available sources, it doesn't seem like Elam was the guy the Bills were coveting when making calls to move up to as high as 20.    

 

That isn't to take away from Elam at all.  If KC couldn't make a trade...or if McDuffie was off the board at 15 or whatever and KC was sitting at 29..and the Bills at 25, also are still looking at him as the high end, round 1 talent that he is...that there is still a manuever by KC, the Bills or another team, to try and get him.  I'm not knocking the player or the pick.  I just don't think Elam was higher on the Bills board.  I do believe that they absolutely saw him/see him as a round 1, high end prospect worth securing with a high pick.  Elam was a guy KC fans often would disucss as a real possibility at 29/30 and was a popular guy to mock to KC there.  KC fans would have been happy to have ended up with him for all the same reasons you guys are glad to have him.

 

I live in the Dallas Ft Worth area...this is a LEGIT reason to believe the Cowboys would have in fact taken Elam.  Considering their fallback plan was..............................Tyler Smith?  A project OT/G.....there is NO CHANCE Smith was rated higher than Elam on the Cowboys draft board.  NONE.

 

The Chiefs didn't go to 21 to jump the Packers.  21 was where you had to get in order to land McDuffie.  KC was surely not the only team asking about 21....and considedring KC paid a 3rd and 4th move up from 29...it would seem there were other bidders and KC had to overpay to get there.  .....the move was to get to 21 to secure the pick VS other teams vying to get to 21....not to jump GB.

 

The Bills don't care about other peoples'/teams' ratings of CBs/players: they trust their own scouting first, as any team should.  So others having McDuffie rated higher didn't matter to them, they wanted to get their guy because all it takes is for one team to also think Elam is better and boom, he's gone and there goes a major need unfilled.  Beane might have even known that the Chefs were looking to trade up to 21 (and the Chefs admitted they traded up there to get ahead of the Bills) to get a CB, but not necessarily know which one, which is why he targeted 20.  But as GB said, McDuffie was a highly unlikely target of the Bills.

 

I agree that Dallas was likely looking at Elam and Beane knew it, but obviously couldn't/wouldn't reveal it.  He might have also known that other teams were interested in the 23rd since, again, the Ravens were shopping it and would have shopped it to more than just the Bills.  Also the reaction from their war room, taking the entire time for their pick and reaching big-time for Smith corroborates it.

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5 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

Even if the Bills had Elam ranked higher than McDuffie (possible..we'll never know) then it would still be reasonable to think that most teams probably had McDuffie higher and that he'd be drafted before Elam, by some team just making their pick or by a team moving up.  Veach specifically saying that KC moved to 21 to get ahead of Buffalo suggests  (but isn't proof) that the Bills were trying manuever to get McDuffie.  Veach clearly had reason to think that McDuffie was the Bills target.  It's a fact that KC took McDuffie...so KC wasn't trying to move up to 21 because they were concerned Elam wouldn't be there. 

 

Given that McDuffie had been ranked appreciably higher by available sources, it doesn't seem like Elam was the guy the Bills were coveting when making calls to move up to as high as 20.   

 

Question: what are these sources, and why is it reasonable to think "most teams" had McDuffie higher?

 

I understand you're a Chiefs fan, so it's reasonable of you to think that the Chiefs got the better, more highly ranked player.  But we've seen over and over that how teams rank players, and how press draft pundits rank players, are not the same thing.

 

Maybe it's just hopeful thinking on my part, but if the Bills were calling around trying to get up to #20, I think it's possible they were hoping to get a player at a different position - Zion Johnson or Trevor Penning, or perhaps Treylon Burks (less likely I think).  Once those players were gone ahead of pick 20, it was time for "plan B".

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15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Question: what are these sources, and why is it reasonable to think "most teams" had McDuffie higher?

 

I understand you're a Chiefs fan, so it's reasonable of you to think that the Chiefs got the better, more highly ranked player.  But we've seen over and over that how teams rank players, and how press draft pundits rank players, are not the same thing.

 

Maybe it's just hopeful thinking on my part, but if the Bills were calling around trying to get up to #20, I think it's possible they were hoping to get a player at a different position - Zion Johnson or Trevor Penning, or perhaps Treylon Burks (less likely I think).  Once those players were gone ahead of pick 20, it was time for "plan B".

 

Why hopeful?  I still think Beane knew the Chefs were looking for a CB at 21 and that's why he targeted 20.  And I think CB was always the 1st round target.

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33 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:


At one point it was Knox, Kaiir, Josh

 

 

 

Right, but in the post I quoted, there was a link to a video in which it was clearly not - Josh was sitting next to Knox, then Doyle, then Sweeney.

Elam was in the 2nd row flanked by a couple of guys - I'm not sure if it was Tyrell Dodson, Gabe Davis, Elam, then Epenesa (??)

 

18 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Why hopeful?  I still think Beane knew the Chefs were looking for a CB at 21 and that's why he targeted 20.  And I think CB was always the 1st round target.

 

Because I don't think the Chiefs and the Bills were both targeting the same CB.  I think if Beane wanted to move up, it would (hopefully) be for a different position.  And two quality OLmen I had hoped the Bills were targeting, both went off the board higher than 20 (17 and 19)

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35 minutes ago, I Am The Liqour said:

Gabe Davis is on his right hand side and it looks like Mitch Morse on his left side.  Kind of hard to tell with the quality.

 

Mitch Morse is a good guess, or how about Ryan Bates? 

 

2 minutes ago, I Am The Liqour said:

The one with the beard on his left is Mitch Morse.

 

Could it be Ryan Bates?  A guy who would pick up a chicken wing hat and scream "I'm a Chicken Wing!  I'm a ***** Chicken Wing!" would vibe well with that group

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14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Because I don't think the Chiefs and the Bills were both targeting the same CB.  I think if Beane wanted to move up, it would (hopefully) be for a different position.  And two quality OLmen I had hoped the Bills were targeting, both went off the board higher than 20 (17 and 19)

 

I don't think they were targeting the same CB either.  I think the Bills were always after Elam because he's taller, faster, has longer arms, and was really good in the premier division in college football.

 

As for OL, considering they signed Saffold and matched an offer sheet for Bates, and drafted Brown last year, I didn't think that IOL or RT were options.

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9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I don't think they were targeting the same CB either.  I think the Bills were always after Elam because he's taller, faster, has longer arms, and was really good in the premier division in college football.

 

As for OL, considering they signed Saffold and matched an offer sheet for Bates, and drafted Brown last year, I didn't think that IOL or RT were options.

 

Saffold on a 1 yr contract and the hope that Bates will continue to play well are not long term plans at IOL

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1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Saffold on a 1 yr contract and the hope that Bates will continue to play well are not long term plans at IOL

 

I think Bates is, hence matching his 4-year deal.  I agree on Saffold, but that's a concern for next year.

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47 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 


I love this kid already!  Everything about him from his pre-draft visit, interviews, meeting Tre, wanting the playbook on the plane, etc just screams someone whose determined to be the best player he’s capable of at the next level.  
 

And this is exactly the kind of player that thrives with our coaches.  
 

I don’t know the future, but I feel like he’s going to be a great player for us and can’t wait to see him on the field.

Edited by Alphadawg7
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