Bills match Bears Offer Sheet for Ryan Bates, 4 yr deal

[Awwufelloff]

Our line was terrible until he stepped in. Beane is incredible 

[Simon Says]

2 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

CB & RB 1-2.  

Not a running back in the 2nd round ,please. I think top 2 picks should be CB and WR and not necessarily in that order.

[HurlyBurly51]

I should've never doubted the wizard.  Wonderfully done!

[Last Guy on the Bench]

Question for the contract/capologists:

 

There's been a lot of talk about the Bears drawing up a contract with a poison pill with a huge up front number. I guess the idea would be a very high first year salary. (Since any other kind of guaranteed money would be prorated across the contract.) But I feel like I remember reading that NFLPA agreement prohibits a drastic salary cut from one year to the next within the same contract. Don't remember what the number was. And I could be wrong, because I think I read that a few years ago. But if my memory is correct, that means you can't pay a guy $10,000,000 one year and $500,000 the next (in salary).

 

If that's true, the Bears really couldn't have artificially jacked the front end of the contract up too much. Does anyone else remember this rule or know about it? Or am I just mistaken?

 

BTW, clearly there is no rule against large increases in yearly salary within the same contract - Watson is supposedly getting only $1,000,000 in salary his first year in Cleveland so any suspension won't hurt him financially (which is pretty effed up in my opinion).

[Einstein]

I find this very peculiar.

 

Beane did not tender him with a 2nd round designation that would have given abates $3.9 million and would have provided the Bills with a 2nd round pick if he was signed elsewhere.

 

But Beane was willing to give him a 4 year deal with an average of more than $4 million per season.

 

I must be missing something.

[buffalo2218]

Wonder if that McKissic situation played a role in this?

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, BrainwashedBillsFan said:

Let’s trade down and get one of the top corners no?

I’m now for trading up and getting one of the top 3 corners...

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

This is a terrible way to look at the cap impact.  First year cap hits can always be minimized.  They neglect to mention that Williams and Feliciano now have $5.1M in dead cap this year and Saffold will have $2M in dead cap next year.  They turned Williams and Feliciano’s cap hit total of $14M into a total cap hit of $13.5M (est) this year plus $2M next year to make the swap. I’ll be happy with the swap if we upgraded, but pretending that we just improved our cap is ridiculous. 

[GolfandBills]

13 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I find this very peculiar.

 

Beane did not tender him with a 2nd round designation that would have given abates $3.9 million and would have provided the Bills with a 2nd round pick if he was signed elsewhere.

 

But Beane was willing to give him a 4 year deal with an average of more than $4 million per season.

 

I must be missing something.

You actually think the Bears would of gave up a 2nd round pick? lol

3 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

Which combo is better:

 

A) LG Saffold, RG Bates

or

B) LG Bates, RG Saffold

 

This has yet to be answered.

 

I'm guessing A)

 

Usually, the better run-blocking G plays LG and the better pass-blocking G plays RG, as the RG handles more 1-on-1 pass-blocking assignments than the LG, as the line slides left to protect the QB's blindside. At this point in their careers, Ryan Bates is probably a better pure 1-on-1 pass-protector than Saffold.

Saffold will play LG

[DCofNC]

If and it’s a big IF he is a good starter, this was great, if he’s not, the Bears got us.  I always worry about handing a big deal to a guy who was buried on the depth chart, then suddenly looks good for a short stretch.  If he plays as well as he did down the stretch it’s a great deal for the Bills.

[Malazan]

before you guys get too excited.. NFL Stats bots has some worrying statistics: 

 

Ryan Bates (C) had 0 pass completions in 2020.

 

[CSBill]

Ahhh! Mr. Beane did have a plan for RG. I can sleep again. 

[Einstein]

14 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

You actually think the Bears would of gave up a 2nd round pick? lol

 

I never said that or intimated that. 

 

I simply said Beane chose not to tender him for what would have been a slightly lower amount, and would have provided additional protection (via a 2nd round pick).

 

 

[Malazan]

Just now, CSBill said:

Ahhh! Mr. Beane did have a plan for RG. I can sleep again. 

 

Given his history.. he probably had several..

[Motor26]

Still want a tackle who can play guard brought in no later than round 4 in the draft. I’m not completely sold on Bates or Brown and need competition and/or a solid backup. 

[MrEpsYtown]

17 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

Which combo is better:

 

A) LG Saffold, RG Bates

or

B) LG Bates, RG Saffold

 

This has yet to be answered.

 

I'm guessing A)

 

Usually, the better run-blocking G plays LG and the better pass-blocking G plays RG, as the RG handles more 1-on-1 pass-blocking assignments than the LG, as the line slides left to protect the QB's blindside. At this point in their careers, Ryan Bates is probably a better pure 1-on-1 pass-protector than Saffold, while Saffold remains one of the league's best run-blocking guards.

Yeah I wrote about this the other day. I think Bates is a great fit at RG. You also have an extremely athletic right side.  In Bates’ world he may feel more comfortable on the left as a former LT, but I think he plays the right. I don’t think he cares. I think he just wants to start. 

[Motor26]

IF by some miracle Penning is there at 25 do you draft him still? 

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If this hasn't been posted elsewhere, Here is the place

 

 

Didn't he get fined for using a prop?

Edited March 28, 2022 by The Wiz

[Malazan]

30 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I find this very peculiar.

 

Beane did not tender him with a 2nd round designation that would have given abates $3.9 million and would have provided the Bills with a 2nd round pick if he was signed elsewhere.

 

But Beane was willing to give him a 4 year deal with an average of more than $4 million per season.

 

I must be missing something.

 

Just now, Einstein said:

 

I never said that or intimated that. 

 

I simply said Beane chose not to tender him for what would have been a slightly lower amount, and would have provided additional protection (via a 2nd round pick).

 

Beane frequently says, you don't know what the market will be for the player until it starts.. too many factors. If he had tendered him at a 2nd round.. he was negotiating against himself. He's also telling the rest of the NFL what he values Bates at.. 

 

Now the NFL has told him.. exactly what the market for Bates is... The risk of someone giving Bates a crazy deal (and to be clear I think the Bears deal is on the high end) that they wouldn't match was low. Beane got the player, he doesn't have negotiate a new deal with him and got information on how other teams in the league are valuing players. 

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, Motor26 said:

IF by some miracle Penning is there at 25 do you draft him still? 

I really don’t think so, unless ypu think he’s significantly better than Brown. You can’t take him there if he is coming to sit the bench. It’s gonna be a corner. 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

 

I like Erik Turner but I gotta say him being on TikTok is so on-brand.

[BullBuchanan]

I like the player, and I'm glad he's playing for us, but how are we not talking about what a massive misplay this was? Beane went cheap and instead of protecting Bates for another $1.4m now he has to pony up even more. It's not the end of the world, but neither was using a 2nd round tender.

[longtimebillsfan]

3 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

So we are drafting 7 CB's... perfect 

6 CB's and a punter.

[Motor26]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I really don’t think so, unless ypu think he’s significantly better than Brown. You can’t take him there if he is coming to sit the bench. It’s gonna be a corner. 

I was just wondering because I hear so many people say BPA and he would almost certainly be it if he made it to pick 25. 

[BADOLBILZ]

44 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

 

As I noted prior..........I can remember being on the other end of these deals when Marv and Jauron were stupidly chasing RFA's.    

 

It was like "well, see........we TRIED".............the GM equivalent of "fake hustle".

 

Meanwhile they were excused from the ACTUAL free market for a week.

 

Will not be remembered as some of Poles best work.

 

I was hoping Poles would have a good showing in Chicago since he's a local WNY kid but all he did was run up the bill just enough to be a nuisance.

 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

I like the player, and I'm glad he's playing for us, but how are we not talking about what a massive misplay this was? Beane went cheap and instead of protecting Bates for another $1.4m now he has to pony up even more. It's not the end of the world, but neither was using a 2nd round tender.

This has repeatedly been addressed in the thread. If you go the 2nd round tender route, you face free agency again next year and end up paying more if Bates has a good year. If you think he is a starter for multiple years, Beane's strategy was precisely correct, but you are always the smartest fella in the room, I guess.

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

This has repeatedly been addressed in the thread. If you go the 2nd round tender route, you face free agency again next year and end up paying more if Bates has a good year. If you think he is a starter for multiple years, Beane's strategy was precisely correct, but you are always the smartest fella in the room, I guess.

my bad, I read through the first 5 or so pages and the last couple. That said, I don't at all agree it was correct.

Edited March 28, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[Dr. Who]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

my bad, I read through the first 5 or so pages and the last couple.

Well, I can't blame you for that . . . let's just hope the small sample size with Bates was the real deal, because the oline was certainly playing well end of season and playoffs.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Dr. Who

[Beast]

This makes me happy. 

[Big Blitz]

Every starter except Saffold and Crowder will be back on offense. 

 

And those are upgrades.  

[BarleyNY]

10 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

IF by some miracle Penning is there at 25 do you draft him still? 

Why would re-signing a guard impact whether or not we draft a tackle?

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I really don’t think so, unless ypu think he’s significantly better than Brown. You can’t take him there if he is coming to sit the bench. It’s gonna be a corner. 

 

 

I absolutely take Penning at 25..........if Beane passes on a specimen like him there that would be a mistake, IMO.    The draft ain't about patching holes but even with that being the case it's not like the LT position was great last year...........Dawkins got covid TWICE and has conditioning issues that will probably hit HARD when he loses that step in his late 20's.    If they get 7 years out of him at LT that will be great value for a good-feet-bad-body LT like Dion.........and he's already going into year 6.   If a potential stud LT is there you take him, IMO.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

I think it will end up being better because I believe that abates will be the long-term answer but I also believe that Beane would have liked to have seen him play more before committing to this sort of contract.

 

Both things can be true at the same time.

 

They've seen him in practice plenty and then got a 5 game audition at the end of the season.  I think that Beane was always going to re-sign him, as long as it wasn't beyond a certain price range, which he probably already knew.

 

46 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I find this very peculiar.

 

Beane did not tender him with a 2nd round designation that would have given abates $3.9 million and would have provided the Bills with a 2nd round pick if he was signed elsewhere.

 

But Beane was willing to give him a 4 year deal with an average of more than $4 million per season.

 

I must be missing something.

 

7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I like the player, and I'm glad he's playing for us, but how are we not talking about what a massive misplay this was? Beane went cheap and instead of protecting Bates for another $1.4m now he has to pony up even more. It's not the end of the world, but neither was using a 2nd round tender.

 

The 2nd round tender is $3.986M.  He got him for $4.25M/year for 4 years.  That's a difference of about $250K a year and $1M overall.  Where's the misplay?

 

And as stated, if he tendered him at the 2nd round level, it's likely just a 1-year deal (no one is making him an offer if it costs a 2nd rounder) and Bates walks next year.

[Malazan]

3 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

I was just wondering because I hear so many people say BPA and he would almost certainly be it if he made it to pick 25. 

 

BPA isn't a thing. Most teams use something that if you describe it would be "BVA" aka Best Value Available. Drafting BPA is a bad strategy. To explain this in the extreme, the BPA could be a QB.. a QB at 25would be a massive waste on the Bills though..

 

Same thing if you look in the draft and you're in the 2nd round and the BPA is a player who's going to have a hard time making the team then.. well, you have better value elsewhere. It's not drafting for need, but it's a balancing act. Then you look at things like a safety... don't draft a safety in the 1st because solid productive players are available in FA every year at that position and even the cost of the elite ones don't compare to pass rushers and wide receivers.

[NoName]

2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

The only caveat is that he was on the left side last year..

 

 From what I have read Saffold is LG leaving an inexperienced pairing of Bates and Brown on the right….

 

Anyway… it’s obvious they like both of them so onwards and upwards..

 

From what I've read, Saffold is not great in pass protection but very good at run blocking.  From what I understand about ol's, the right guard is better for run blocking and left for pass protection.  I'm not sure if I have that correct but if I do, then Saffold is going to the right and we are keeping bates at left.

[MrEpsYtown]

6 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

I was just wondering because I hear so many people say BPA and he would almost certainly be it if he made it to pick 25. 

I think it’s a good point. I have had those thoughts myself with Linderbaum. But if Penning is there, it could be a great spot for a trade down. If I had to bet today I would say a modest trade up with say the Eagles for a corner will happen. I think the Eagles will trade down a bit as you don’t want to deal with 3 fifth year options. 

 

[Malazan]

Just now, Doc said:

 

They've seen him in practice plenty and then got a 5 game audition at the end of the season.  I think that Beane was always going to re-sign him, as long as it wasn't beyond a certain price range, which he probably already knew.

 

The 2nd round tender is $3.986M.  He got him for $4.25M/year for 4 years.  That's a difference of about $250K a year and $1M overall.  Where's the misplay?

 

And as stated, if he tendered him at the 2nd round level, it's likely just a 1-year deal (no one is making him an offer if it costs a 2nd rounder) and Bates walks next year.

 

The other thing I think people underplay here is that Beane literally just got another team negotiate a deal for him and he absolutely knows what Bates could get in FA. If you put a 2nd round tender on him.. no other team even sniffs around. 

 

The arguments on here had Bates value all over the place. If Beane was not sure and didn't want to negotiate against himself.. he needed another team to weigh in and he got one to do it..

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

The 2nd round tender is $3.986M.  He got him for $4.25M/year for 4 years.  That's a difference of about $250K a year and $1M overall.  Where's the misplay?

 

And as stated, if he tendered him at the 2nd round level, it's likely just a 1-year deal (no one is making him an offer if it costs a 2nd rounder) and Bates walks next year.

Why does Bates automatically (or even probably) walk next year? is he going to take personal offense at being given a tender?

As far as the misplay is concerned, I think you provided my answer: "no one is making him an offer if it costs a 2nd rounder". So, now instead of us being able to make an offer on our terms, we had to compete with the highest bidder.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

8 hours ago, Success said:

I see some trades on draft day - we have too many picks for this year.

 

Either move up if there is a CB they really like, or accumulate some picks in future drafts.  I can't remember ever feeling like we had so few holes heading into a draft.

 

100% agree.  Only CB # 2 and a new punter are likely to make the team as starters.  They should probably draft just 5 guys.  CB, OT, P, WR, and S  maybe 6 if you want to add another DT or OG.  If they draft two OL then its virtually certain Ford would be gone

Edited March 29, 2022 by Ethan in Portland

[HurlyBurly51]

10 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Every starter except Saffold and Crowder will be back on offense. 

 

And those are upgrades.  

Not sure Crowder is an upgrade, but good enough to keep the offense humming