Bills Hire Kyle Shurmur, Son of Pat Shurmur

[clayboy54]

3 hours ago, ngbills said:

Quality coaches are mostly watching film and helping create playbooks etc. 

emptying garbage cans, fetching coffee, shining shoes…

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, gjv001 said:

What does a Defensive Quality Coach do? 

 

https://www.milehighreport.com/2011/3/11/2043379/the-role-of-an-nfl-quality-control-coach-denver-broncos-football-scouting

Quote

Contemporary coaches are always searching for an edge over their opponents. Now that the Computer Age is upon us, the analyzing has become more technical. Many of those coaches have assistants called the "Quality Control Coach." However, the QCC doesn't really do much coaching at all. They spend all day multitasking, breaking down film up to five weeks in advance and analyzing data. They work all hours, in hotel lobbies, on airplanes and at their team's headquarters producing reports for their Head Coach. They do get to do some coaching though. The QC coaches often run the "Scout" team in practices. From their extensive film work and breaking down plays, the QCC can be a great help preparing their team because they know the tendencies of their opponents. They make sure the Scout teams give the starters an accurate look at what they'll face on Sunday in practice during game weeks.

 

They chart tendencies by down and distance and game situation, stuff like that.

 

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Hiring a 25 year old ex QB to be quality control on defense strikes me as odd, at least on the surface.

 

Not really.  I'm pretty sure the defensive QC coach is the one who breaks down the upcoming opponent's offense

[wagne591]

1 hour ago, gjv001 said:

What does a Defensive Quality Coach do? 

Hopefully he will tell McDermott and Fraizer not to play prevent defense with 13 seconds left in the game.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, JoeF said:

Shea Tierney (exited to become the Giants QB Coach) used to set up the scout team defense to give the offense looks during the week.  Wonder if Kyle will take on part of that role.

 

Yeah, functionally the Bills lost a couple of guys who were filling the role of QC assistants (Tierney and Webb) so they need to hire

[Punching Bag]

9 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

emptying garbage cans, fetching coffee, shining shoes…

 

Letting air our of footballs in New England.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

the NFL has a serious nepotism problem. Kyle Shurmur will probably be a head coach some day— just like Kyle Shanahan, Nathaniel Hackett, steve Bellichick, etc.

 

That is the bigger underlying issue that is a root cause of all the Rooney Rule issues. 

 

I think you've got the right problem but the wrong issue.

 

QC assistant is an entry-level coaching position.  To get promoted from it, whatever his name is, the guy will have to make good and grind.

 

Here's the problem:

1) They are expected to put in 18 hr days, and are paid peanuts. Who can afford to do that?  Well, typically guys with family support behind them, not college players who were maybe up for a "cup of coffee".   Former coaches have the $$ and understand the coaching food chain enough to provide support.

2) Of the former players hired, PS QB have a leg up.  Who are the PS QBs who stick around in the league from year to year?

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Hiring a 25 year old ex QB to be quality control on defense strikes me as odd, at least on the surface.

It’s an entry level coaching position.  People are making more out of it than that. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

32 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think you've got the right problem but the wrong issue.

 

QC assistant is an entry-level coaching position.  To get promoted from it, whatever his name is, the guy will have to make good and grind.

 

Here's the problem:

1) They are expected to put in 18 hr days, and are paid peanuts. Who can afford to do that?  Well, typically guys with family support behind them, not college players who were maybe up for a "cup of coffee".   Former coaches have the $$ and understand the coaching food chain enough to provide support.

2) Of the former players hired, PS QB have a leg up.  Who are the PS QBs who stick around in the league from year to year?

i will say that I know a lot of really good former college players who would jump at the chance of being a QC coach in the NFL, but instead they are grinding it out and watching film for big high school programs or D3 programs.
 

Maybe Kyle Shurmur is really good, but his dad’s connections got him this job. 

[billsherd]

Defense has the quantity they do need quality.

[Captain Hindsight]

I felt bad for this kid last year. He was with Washington last year and they signed a dude off the Pats* PS to start over him when everyone had Covid. I bet he knew then his career was over 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i will say that I know a lot of really good former college players who would jump at the chance of being a QC coach in the NFL, but instead they are grinding it out and watching film for big high school programs or D3 programs.
 

Maybe Kyle Shurmur is really good, but his dad’s connections got him this job. 

 

No one would doubt that connections help.  But Shurmur has been on practice squads for the Chiefs, Bengals, and Washington Football Team.  So it’s entirely possible that the connections he’s formed there are as or more important

 

Good luck to your friends.  I hope they are able to get their foot in the door.

[BobbyC81]

8 hours ago, msw2112 said:

While it struck me as odd at first, too, this is likey an entry-level position that involves a lot of administrative work, so it might not matter that much whether it's on offense or defense.  I'm just speculating, but maybe "quality control" means making sure that practice and meeting schedules are posted, that a certain number of reps occurred in practice, etc.

 

EDIT:  While I was writing this, someone posted that quality control coaches watch a lot of film and help create playbooks.

Yes, they review film and put together statistics of how the team does in certain situations (For example, since he’s going to do defense,  the results when they blitz the MLB on 3rd and 10 vs a 5 man O-Line with empty backfield).

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Yeah, but as NFL royalty, can he wear the crown as well as this guy? 🤔

[GunnerBill]

Nepotism. Alive and well in the NFL. 

[BillsfaninChicago]

10 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Hiring a 25 year old ex QB to be quality control on defense strikes me as odd, at least on the surface.

Seems like a perfect fit to me. Isn’t a lot of quality control reviewing game tapes and looking for things that work or don’t?

 

Having someone that is familiar with playing the game in its current iteration is not only a great start to a young coaching career but could help us with unique insights on both sides of the ball.

Edited February 12, 2022 by BillsfaninChicago

[Doc Brown]

10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think Daboll was a defensive QC early on at one point. William and Mary maybe. 

 

10 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Could be a Belichick thing but Josh McDaniel also was a defensive QC for NE.

 

Yup.  That's how Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry got their start too I believe.

[Punching Bag]

8 hours ago, JohnNord said:

It’s an entry level coaching position.  People are making more out of it than that. 

 

That is what off season is for, right?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

4 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Yeah, but as NFL royalty, can he wear the crown as well as this guy? 🤔

"Sorry, Dad.  Those were some really sour 'Sour Patch Kids' gummies!"

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

 

 

Yup.  That's how Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry got their start too I believe.

For who?!  Amos Alonzo Stagg?! 😁

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Nepotism. Alive and well in the NFL. 

 

In this case, wouldn't it be "cronyism", since Shurmur does not have a relative employed by the Bills?

 

An example of nepotism would be our employment of safeties coach Bobby Babich, son of LB coach Bob Babich

[Mr. WEO]

Someone has to wash the cars...

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

In this case, wouldn't it be "cronyism", since Shurmur does not have a relative employed by the Bills?

 

An example of nepotism would be our employment of safeties coach Bobby Babich, son of LB coach Bob Babich

 

I might be wrong but I don't believe nepotism is restricted just to family members although the term is often used that way.

[billsfan_34]

18 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Have a father as a known coach, play in the league at QB as well.

 

These guys can fail their way to the top. See: Nathaniel Hackett.

Or succeed- ya just never know. 

[WhoTom]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I might be wrong but I don't believe nepotism is restricted just to family members although the term is often used that way.

 

https://www.dictionary.com/compare-words/nepotism-cronyism?root=nepotism

 

[Sierra Foothills]

16 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

the NFL has a serious nepotism problem. Kyle Shurmur will probably be a head coach some day— just like Kyle Shanahan, Nathaniel Hackett, steve Bellichick, etc.

 

That is the bigger underlying issue that is a root cause of all the Rooney Rule issues. 

 

16 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Odd until you remember the level of cronyism and nepotism present in the NFL…

 

14 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i will say that I know a lot of really good former college players who would jump at the chance of being a QC coach in the NFL, but instead they are grinding it out and watching film for big high school programs or D3 programs.
 

Maybe Kyle Shurmur is really good, but his dad’s connections got him this job. 

 

I work at a vocational training center which oversees Apprenticeship training in the electrical construction industry. Unfortunately there is some nepotism as there is in virtually all industries. In my position I just have to accept it philosophically. One thing I tell the Apprentices is this:

 

" We don't care how you got here, we only care what you do here."  Everyone is held to the same high standards and there is no favoritism.

 

Incidentally there's a weird polarization with the 2nd generationers... half of them suck and are clearly riding coattails and the other half are exceptionally excellent having been trained from an early age about the industry, having good role modeling, and not wanting to sully the family name.

 

Regarding the Shurmur hire, his dad is a lifelong NFL coach who was twice a head coach. His great uncle was a renowned and respected (Super Bowl-winning) Defensive Coordinator.

 

It's probable that Kyle has a very high football IQ and is extremely well-qualified for this entry level position.

[Beast]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Nepotism. Alive and well in the NFL. 

 

Tell me, how big of an issue is it? I don't think it is a problem.

 

At all.

 

In fact, if I knew I could hire an up and comer that has a relative that was an NFL coach, that's a plus in my book. 

 

But, again, how many coaches are there in the NFL.....and how many of those had relatives that were NFL coaches? I bet the percentage is low and it isn't exactly shocking that a kid, or young man, would take an interest in what his father has or is doing for a living.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Beast

[Sierra Foothills]

Incidentally, the industry with the highest level of nepotism is farming.

 

Think about that for awhile.

[muppy]

20 hours ago, Momma Pecoraro said:

Holler at me when they hire Uhtred son of Uhtred.

if it ends up being name recognition nepotism was the major part of how/why he got the job then he will be kicked to the curb if he fails like any other candidate  We all hope he  is a bright young person  who will excel in this challenge......sounds pretty challenging a job to me really. Cut his teeth full speed into the NFL game doing entry level . Good Luck Young man. -m

Edited February 12, 2022 by muppy

[JoPoy88]

9 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Tell me, how big of an issue is it? I don't think it is a problem.

 

At all.

 

In fact, if I knew I could hire an up and comer that has a relative that was an NFL coach, that's a plus in my book. 

 

But, again, how many coaches are there in the NFL.....and how many of those had relatives that were NFL coaches? I bet the percentage is low and it isn't exactly shocking that a kid, or young man, would take an interest in what his father has or is doing for a living.

if the hypothetical up and comer has demonstrable talent and is adequately qualified for the position, then there is absolutely no problem with that candidate also having familial connections to the job. 
 

Question is how often is that the case? I don’t know the percentage, but it ain’t 100%. And that’s why nepotism and cronyism is a problem. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Good article about nepotism in the NFL.

 

Bottom line is that 14% of all coaches in the NFL have a biological or marriage relationship to current or former head coaches:

 

https://defector.com/just-how-big-a-problem-is-nepotism-in-nfl-coaching/

[Beast]

9 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

if the hypothetical up and comer has demonstrable talent and is adequately qualified for the position, then there is absolutely no problem with that candidate also having familial connections to the job. 
 

Question is how often is that the case? I don’t know the percentage, but it ain’t 100%. And that’s why nepotism and cronyism is a problem. 

 

Like I said earlier, I'd take it and put it in the plus column that an up and comer knows the life-style and has a sounding board.

 

A big us.

 

And, again, how many coaches in the NFL have family ties to former coaches? I bet the percentage is very small.

 

 

1 minute ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Good article about nepotism in the NFL.

 

Bottom line is that 14% of all coaches in the NFL have a biological or marriage relationship to current or former head coaches:

 

https://defector.com/just-how-big-a-problem-is-nepotism-in-nfl-coaching/

 

14 percent is small.

[muppy]

1 hour ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

 

I work at a vocational training center which oversees Apprenticeship training in the electrical construction industry. Unfortunately there is some nepotism as there is in virtually all industries. In my position I just have to accept it philosophically. One thing I tell the Apprentices is this:

 

" We don't care how you got here, we only care what you do here."  Everyone is held to the same high standards and there is no favoritism.

 

Incidentally there's a weird polarization with the 2nd generationers... half of them suck and are clearly riding coattails and the other half are exceptionally excellent having been trained from an early age about the industry, having good role modeling, and not wanting to sully the family name.

 

Regarding the Shurmur hire, his dad is a lifelong NFL coach who was twice a head coach. His great uncle was a renowned and respected (Super Bowl-winning) Defensive Coordinator.

 

It's probable that Kyle has a very high football IQ and is extremely well-qualified for this entry level position.

excellent post 🙂 don't be a stranger post more when you can. GO BILLS-m

[billybrew1]

Quote

 

Wow! The Bills are taking no chances. Replacing Daboll with four men. Daboll had to be one helluva OC.

LOL, I assumed he was on the offense. Maybe this guy can help the D be better prepared?

or at least, I'm glad to see the D do something to improve the D. It could be the Bills needed someone to do this?

[billybrew1]

4 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

Incidentally, the industry with the highest level of nepotism is farming.

 

Think about that for awhile.

I know a little about this and those farmers (in central California anyway) have so much money they don't know what to do with it... They run the towns they are attached to. Incidentally, I think Josh Allen's dad is one of those farmers..... They're poor compared with Josh now though....

Me? Just lucky to be born in the states.... So, rich to most people in the world, poor compared to those in the states. Although...

"To know you have enough is to be rich." - Loa Tzu 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Wonder if this is one of these things McD and even Beane remember their roots and will try to hire some new upcoming "intern" like coach to give him a shot. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

5 hours ago, Beast said:

 

 

 

 

14 percent is small.

14% isn’t small, IMO— especially when you consider that NFL coaching is the absolute pinnacle of that profession. 
 

I mean, the NFL can do whatever it wants. But they shouldn’t be complaining about minority hiring issues when they don’t do anything to limit nepotism. 
 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

Wow! The Bills are taking no chances. Replacing Daboll with four men. Daboll had to be one helluva OC.

LOL, I assumed he was on the offense. Maybe this guy can help the D be better prepared?

or at least, I'm glad to see the D do something to improve the D. It could be the Bills needed someone to do this?

 

Kyle Shurmur is not a partial replacement for Daboll.  He may be a partial replacement for assistant QB coach Shea Tierney, who ran the Scout Defense that gave the offense its weekly opponent's "looks" during practice (or he may take on different assistant duties and free another assistant for that role)

 

The two other new hires are also replacements for departing coaches

3 out....3 in

[hondo in seattle]

Although, quality control coach is a low-paid grunt job that doesn't typically involve any coaching at all, it's a great way to start learning about NFL coaching.  Ron River, Robert Saleh, Kyle Shanahan, Todd Haley all did stints at Quality Control when they were young.

 

Jon Gruden is usually credited with being the first full-time quality control coach.

 

Kathryn Smith (Bills) is credited with being the first full-time female quality control coach.

 

Lots of old coaches help their sons get jobs as QC guys.  Shurmur is just one of many.

 

 

[MrEpsYtown]

From all accounts Kyle is a very intelligent dude with some physical limitations. 
 

I get that he was a quarterback who will be working with the defense. If I need a guy to chart plays and prepare scout teams to help our defense, I want it to be a guy who played QB for our two biggest AFC rivals going forward, KC and Cincy. I think this is a genius, kind of shrewd move and I like it. He would have extensive knowledge of both offenses and he could make a difference for us. 

[Punching Bag]

18 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Kyle Shurmur is not a partial replacement for Daboll.  He may be a partial replacement for assistant QB coach Shea Tierney, who ran the Scout Defense that gave the offense its weekly opponent's "looks" during practice (or he may take on different assistant duties and free another assistant for that role)

 

The two other new hires are also replacements for departing coaches

3 out....3 in

 

He is also help doing what our former #3 QB Davis Webb was doing for he was not just practicing and being on practice squad but breaking down film, polling WRs and QBs whether they liked plays, etc.  There was a lot of stories on work he was doing for Brian Daboll and was how Brian Daboll got his break in NFL.