Malik Willis: The next Josh Allen?

[FilthyBeast]

16 hours ago, BidsJr said:

There will never be a "next" Josh Allen.

 

I tend to agree with this.

 

Allen is/was such an anomaly in terms of draft evaluation and defied every statistical norm that said he would never amount to anything much in the NFL especially after his first 2 seasons and where he was trending.

 

Of course this is not going to stop 31 other NFL GM's and front offices from trying to find 'the next one' so to speak.

[Mr. WEO]

This guy is tiny.  It was like watching high school football highlights.

 

I don't get the Josh comparison.

[transplantbillsfan]

Honest question... who filled in this blank in 2018

 

Josh Allen is the next ____________________.

 

Truly, has thereever been another QB similar to Allen?  Incredible physical tools but insanely raw.  Unimpressive college production and drafted almost solely for physical tools and mental makeup.  And then an Elite NFL QB after just 3 years in the league.

 

Would Brett Favre fit in that blank?  I don't even know if he would, but maybe he's the only guy I can think of.

 

I don't think there's going to be another Josh Allen and I think Josh Allen may have broken a lot of teams' scouting departments for years to come.

Edited February 3, 2022 by transplantbillsfan

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I see Carson Strong as the closest thing to Josh Allen in this draft. And Carson Strong is about as mobile as Peyton Manning.

 

I guess I would say from above the knees on up Carson Strong is similar to Josh Allen.

[thenorthremembers]

6 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

No, I believe that was Josh Rosen. Rosen even met with Rodgers. They discussed how to ingratiate yourself with the media and fans.

Two things Rosen never has to worry about.

[davefan66]

20 hours ago, wppete said:

Impressive. 

Dude can ball.  Looks great.

 

Problem is translating that to the NFL.  Needs a solid team and good coaches around him like Josh did.

[H2o]

Josh Allen? No. Willis 6'1" and 215lbs. Josh is 6'5" and 240lbs+. I see a slower version of Lamar if anything. He has some ability for sure. He will need to land in the right spot where they can coach him up and get the most out of him. 

[Punching Bag]

On 2/2/2022 at 9:33 PM, Best Williams Available said:

“The next Josh Allen” will be a myth scouts use to make crazy picks for the next decade trying to hit on a guy with non quantifiable skills. 

 

And what agents will be pushing to try to get their clients signed for higher pick that they normally would be picked at so teams would have 5th year options.

[RaoulDuke79]

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Well there we go.  Malik Willis is a “much better athlete than Allen”

 

Film Room’s Brett Kollman isn’t entirely buying all the throwing air speed numbers:

 

 

[mannc]

On 2/2/2022 at 3:48 PM, BidsJr said:

There will never be a "next" Josh Allen.

Absolutely true, but we're going to hear about it every year...

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 2/2/2022 at 7:07 PM, ControllerOfPlanetX said:

I thought Trey Lance was the next Josh Allen,

 

Beat me to it

[BarleyNY]

Apparently the Steelers are in love with Malik Willis.  They’ve been really bad at hiding their draft intentions of late, so it’s believable.  For example, it was widely known that they were planning to draft Najee Harris with their 1st round pick well before last year’s draft.  Looks like Willis is their guy this year. 

[Nextmanup]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:47 AM, FilthyBeast said:

 

I tend to agree with this.

 

Allen is/was such an anomaly in terms of draft evaluation and defied every statistical norm that said he would never amount to anything much in the NFL especially after his first 2 seasons and where he was trending.

 

Of course this is not going to stop 31 other NFL GM's and front offices from trying to find 'the next one' so to speak.

He is a 1 in 100 or maybe 1,000 lucky hit...

 

But other teams SHOULD continue to assume they can do the same thing.

 

Teams should be developing multiple QBs all the time, taking chances, etc., until they find one IMO.

 

It's the most poorly thought out aspect of the game IMO.

 

 

[Doc]

52 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Apparently the Steelers are in love with Malik Willis.  They’ve been really bad at hiding their draft intentions of late, so it’s believable.  For example, it was widely known that they were planning to draft Najee Harris with their 1st round pick well before last year’s draft.  Looks like Willis is their guy this year. 

 

It will be interesting to see if they trade up for him.

[Buffalo716]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well there we go.  Malik Willis is a “much better athlete than Allen”

 

Film Room’s Brett Kollman isn’t entirely buying all the throwing air speed numbers:

 

 

The thing is Josh Allen didn't go to the Senior bowl and throw the football as hard as he could... he wanted to throw catchable footballs 

 

All those guys on that list absolutely we're just chucking it as hard as they could.. I've seen Malik Willis... If he reached that he probably put every single thing he had in his body and more 

 

Josh didn't even try to throw 66 miles an hour 

 

And that's If those numbers are correct and there wasn't a error... I've seen all those guys play and none have a stronger arm than Josh Allen..  Howell at 69 and zappe and ridder and 74 male no sense 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The thing is Josh Allen didn't go to the Senior bowl and throw the football as hard as he could... he wanted to throw catchable footballs 

 

All those guys on that list absolutely we're just chucking it as hard as they could.. I've seen Malik Willis... If he reached that he probably put every single thing he had in his body and more 

 

Josh didn't even try to throw 66 miles an hour

 

Any idea where the "Malik Willis much better athlete" statement is coming from?

[BringBackFlutie]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The thing is Josh Allen didn't go to the Senior bowl and throw the football as hard as he could... he wanted to throw catchable footballs 

 

All those guys on that list absolutely we're just chucking it as hard as they could.. I've seen Malik Willis... If he reached that he probably put every single thing he had in his body and more 

 

Josh didn't even try to throw 66 miles an hour

 

Yeah. Watching Willis's highlights I saw some nice 30 yard posts where he fit the ball in with some velocity. Never, ever, have I seen a QB rip a frozen rope from 40 yards out, in less than 1.5 seconds like Josh did in preseason to Gabe, and against the Broncos to Kumerow. He doesn't step into his long throws, usually, and only took a step to hit Davis on that 65-yarder. His longest throw is 85 air yards (not in-game), and I'm willing to bet that, in Denver, he could hit 90. His arm strength is other-worldly. It'll be a long time before we see a stronger arm- if we ever do.

 

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Any idea where the "Malik Willis much better athlete" statement is coming from?

 

I don't get that one. Watching the highlights he runs a lot like Josh. Picks up speed around the corner, big strides when he gets moving, breaks tackles, gets caught from behind.  

Edited February 11, 2022 by BringBackFlutie

[Doc]

Yeah, anyone having a stronger arm, much less 6 QBs coming out, is far-fetched.

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Any idea where the "Malik Willis much better athlete" statement is coming from?

Scouts are always looking for the next best thing.. sure coming out of high school at 18 Malik willis probably was a better athlete 

 

He's a smooth athlete with long strides.. kicked it up over 20 mph at the senior bowl 

 

But it's unfair to not document the strides Josh Allen made as an athlete.. going from 6 ft 180... To 6'5 240  and an ability to outrun NFL linebackers and jump over them 

 

He's eclipsed 20 mph in an NFL game with equipment on... Sorry Malik, but I'm going to have to go with the 6'5 unicorn who can put a football anywhere on the field , with the ability to run 20 miles an hour and hurdle linebackers as a better athlete 

 

I think Josh is the best athlete on the football field every time he steps on it

 

 

[GunnerBill]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well there we go.  Malik Willis is a “much better athlete than Allen”

 

Film Room’s Brett Kollman isn’t entirely buying all the throwing air speed numbers:

 

 

 

If Kenny Pickett has a stronger arm than Josh Allen then I have better abs than DK Metcalf. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

If Kenny Pickett has a stronger arm than Josh Allen then I have better abs than DK Metcalf. 

 

Pics so we can compare 😁

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/dk-metcalf-draft-cleveland-browns/486631

 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Scouts are always looking for the next best thing.. sure coming out of high school at 18 Malik willis probably was a better athlete 

 

He's a smooth athlete with long strides.. kicked it up over 20 mph at the senior bowl 

 

But it's unfair to not document the strides Josh Allen made as an athlete.. going from 6 ft 180... To 6'5 240  and an ability to outrun NFL linebackers and jump over them 

 

He's eclipsed 20 mph in an NFL game with equipment on... Sorry Malik, but I'm going to have to go with the 6'5 unicorn who can put a football anywhere on the field , with the ability to run 20 miles an hour and hurdle linebackers as a better athlete 

 

I think Josh is the best athlete on the football field every time he steps on it

 

 

 

I think people confuse "runs a faster 40" with "is a better athlete". 

 

I expect Willis to run slightly faster at the combine than Josh did. But he is not a better athlete.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think people confuse "runs a faster 40" with "is a better athlete". 

 

I expect Willis to run slightly faster at the combine than Josh did. But he is not a better athlete.

He's probably going to run a faster 40 by a decent amount  

 

But I don't confuse that with athlete either

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think people confuse "runs a faster 40" with "is a better athlete". 

 

I expect Willis to run slightly faster at the combine than Josh did. But he is not a better athlete.

 

Josh Allen's 40-time is so out of keeping with his demonstrated playing speed that I've heard interviewers asking him if he wasn't trying, or was sandbagging, or was not feeling good that day or or or.....

 

Josh's explanation is that having guys chase him in a game provides "extra motivation".

[K-9]

I put zero stock in these “air speed” measurements put up at the Senior Bowl. Let me know when one of them registers a 62 mph velocity throwing to both his left and right at the combine. Only one QB has done that since the league began measuring that metric and we all know who that is. 

[Doc]

Josh wasn't even running hard/properly at the Combine.  He didn't want to be drafted as a RB. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Doc

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

The next Josh Allen
 

❤️ ❤️  ❤️  ❤️ 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

Josh wasn't even running hard/properly at the Combine.  He didn't want to be drafted as a RB. 

 

He says he was running hard.  Properly, can't tell you.  Doubt he put much effort into training for the 40-time pre draft.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Josh Allen's 40-time is so out of keeping with his demonstrated playing speed that I've heard interviewers asking him if he wasn't trying, or was sandbagging, or was not feeling good that day or or or.....

 

Josh's explanation is that having guys chase him in a game provides "extra motivation".

 

Yea I don't think he was sandbagging or not trying I just don't think running in a straight line from a sprinter start is really his thing. 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

He says he was running hard.  Properly, can't tell you.  Doubt he put much effort into training for the 40-time pre draft.

 

He might claim that, but it looked like he was running to get a decent time but not overly-exert/possibly injure himself.  And with him hitting over 20 MPH in a game as a rookie...

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I put zero stock in these “air speed” measurements put up at the Senior Bowl. Let me know when one of them registers a 62 mph velocity throwing to both his left and right at the combine. Only one QB has done that since the league began measuring that metric and we all know who that is. 

 

To be fair I don't particularly like the measured combine number either. I just think it is irrelevant. Deshaun Watson and Joe Burrow are both in the bottom 5 of guys who have been day 1 or 2 picks measured since 2017. Didn't stop either of them being great in the league. 

 

Josh has an amazing arm, no doubt, I just don't put the same stock in velocity numbers as others. Some guys you can see on film don't have the arm. But as long as your arm is decent you can win in this league. 

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He might claim that, but it looked like he was running to get a decent time but not overly-exert/possibly injure himself.  And with him hitting over 20 MPH in a game as a rookie...

 

Sprinting straight from a sprinters start and running from an upright position dodging defenders are just very different skills. Nobody was drafting Josh as a running back. He wasn't sandbagging. And I don't think he has the straight line speed of a Malik Willis. That just isn't a good way to measure a "great athlete" when it comes to playing football.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

To be fair I don't particularly like the measured combine number either. I just think it is irrelevant. Deshaun Watson and Joe Burrow are both in the bottom 5 of guys who have been day 1 or 2 picks measured since 2017. Didn't stop either of them being great in the league. 

 

Josh has an amazing arm, no doubt, I just don't put the same stock in velocity numbers as others. Some guys you can see on film don't have the arm. But as long as your arm is decent you can win in this league. 

I agree, it’s completely, totally irrelevant and is indicative of nothing when it comes to being a quarterback. It’s just a measure of pure arm strength. Period. I’m just incredulous at these “air speed” numbers put up by QBs with obviously weaker arms. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, K-9 said:

I agree, it’s completely, totally irrelevant and is indicative of nothing when it comes to being a quarterback. It’s just a measure of pure arm strength. Period. I’m just incredulous at these “air speed” numbers put up by QBs with obviously weaker arms. 

 

Yea the gun at the senior bowl needs chucking in the bin is my take away.

[Doc]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Sprinting straight from a sprinters start and running from an upright position dodging defenders are just very different skills. Nobody was drafting Josh as a running back. He wasn't sandbagging. And I don't think he has the straight line speed of a Malik Willis. That just isn't a good way to measure a "great athlete" when it comes to playing football.

 

I didn't say he was sandbagging it, per se.  He did run a 4.75 or something close at the Combine, which is plenty fast.  It was that just after the Vikings game, someone posted a thread about how on one play he ran over 20 MPH, which is the area of WRs, DBs and RBs, so I went back and looked at his Combine footage and it didn't appear like he was running all-out, maybe to avoid injury, I don't know.  That's no knock on him.

 

And I agree that straight-line speed doesn't make you a better athlete.

[HappyDays]

I believe the numbers listed from the Senior Bowl are the "initial air speed," whereas air speed traditionally should be measured in the middle of the ball's flight. Of course the ball is at its fastest when it first leaves your hand. That isn't the number that matters.

[Albany,n.y.]

20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well there we go.  Malik Willis is a “much better athlete than Allen”

 

Film Room’s Brett Kollman isn’t entirely buying all the throwing air speed numbers:

 

 

Why did they have the QBs throw baseballs?  

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

The thing is Josh Allen didn't go to the Senior bowl and throw the football as hard as he could... he wanted to throw catchable footballs 

 

All those guys on that list absolutely we're just chucking it as hard as they could.. I've seen Malik Willis... If he reached that he probably put every single thing he had in his body and more 

 

Josh didn't even try to throw 66 miles an hour 

 

And that's If those numbers are correct and there wasn't a error... I've seen all those guys play and none have a stronger arm than Josh Allen..  Howell at 69 and zappe and ridder and 74 male no sense 

 

 

Ridder doesn't even have a traditionally "strong" arm IMO.    He reminds me a lot of former Miami Hurricane and one-time extremely overhyped talent Brad Kaaya.   

[Chaos]

Everyone who ever played pickup football knows that the team with the big kid always had a huge advantage.  Josh is THE big kid. Malik will never be the big kid in the NFL. 

[starrymessenger]

Josh looks faster than he is because defenders are afraid to tackle him. Just ask Honey Badger.