Tua and Hurts will never get to the promised land

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I wouldn't put Lamar or Mayfield anywhere near the likes of Tua or Hurts.

 

Totally different classes of QB, with Lamar the best of them all.  

 

All have flaws though.

 

 

 

 

 

True those two are way better than the other two but that's not what the thread is about.  I also don't believe Mayfield or Jackson will ever bring home a trophy.  I'll add Mac Jones and Ryan Tannehil to the list too.  ( my personal list of course.  I don't speak for others.)

[mannc]

2 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

I like both of these guys in terms of leadership, moxie and athleticism, but they are too much of a liability in the passing game.   Miami and Philly need to draft QBs 

Seems like kind of a red flag for a QB…

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Hurts looks today just like he looked to me in college - a one-read QB who will never be a natural passer.  He stinks.

 

Tua it’s too early.  I don’t see any real difference between Tua and Mac Jones - both are smart natural throwers who can run an offense but will never be able to stress a defense by throwing to the far areas of the field.  Their ceiling is Alex Smith/Ryan Tannehill - but that doesn’t mean they can’t win super bowls if they’re paired with the right OC and other things break their way.  

I'm watching Jimmy G., who came damn close to winning a SB. Tua and maybe Mac strike me as being on that level.

NOTE: we would've killed to have had a young QB "on that level" at any time between 2005 and 2017.

[JY422]

37 minutes ago, TH3 said:

Actually I think MJ gonna be an above average qb

Only time will tell. 

[TH3]

12 minutes ago, JY422 said:

Only time will tell. 

True…but he has garbage recievers and he won’t be JA PM etc…. But he makes a lot of good throws and definately fits what the Pats seem to want to do

[CoudyBills]

2 hours ago, Rampage said:

Running QBs are overrated. If you can’t throw the football you won’t win in the playoffs. It’s that simple. There’s a reason these guys faceplant in the playoffs. Mike Vick was the first of them and it’s been happening ever since. You need to pair mobility with the passing. Not the other way around.

Randall Cunningham?  He was way before Vick.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

I like both of these guys in terms of leadership, moxie and athleticism, but they are too much of a liability in the passing game.   Miami and Philly need to draft QBs 

 

 

Too early to know.

 

The passing game is what usually takes time to develop. My guess is you're right about Hurts, but that Tua might have a chance. But it's just too early to know.

[QLBillsFan]

3 hours ago, JY422 said:

Add Mac Jones to this list and you have a triumvirate of excellent Alabama QBs who are average-at-best NFL QBs.

Mac I think is already at 90% of his ceiling. Not enough work ethic from Tua w limited talent. Don’t think Hurts is enough of a pro passer. Baker is average. None of them will win a SB. They have too many good young QB’s to deal with. All have far superior talent. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by QLBillsFan

[BillsfaninSB]

I’m intrigued what Philly does with all those 1st round picks.   Build around Hurts, draft a QB or try and work a trade.   Tough decision. 
 

The QB class is not great and do you want to take a chance on Wilson or Watson assuming they would entertain going there. 

[Southern_Bills]

3 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

I like both of these guys in terms of leadership, moxie and athleticism, but they are too much of a liability in the passing game.   Miami and Philly need to draft QBs 

 

Everything you said is true about Hurts, outstanding leader and football player. Sadly he is not a top 32 QB, but not far off.

 

Tua I believe is a slacker that wants things to come easy. He may actually have the talent but he doesn't want it bad enough. I wouldn't want him as my leader.

[billsfan_34]

Hurts looked awful today.

[Sweats]

Hated Tua and Hurts in college.........hate them both in the NFL.

[bigK14094]

51 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

Randall Cunningham?  He was way before Vick.

Bobby Douglas before him

[Albany,n.y.]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Probably not, but many that decided Josh Allens future based on his first 2 seasons were criminally incorrect 

Only the ones who were looking at stats instead of watching the games.  

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

I’m intrigued what Philly does with all those 1st round picks.   Build around Hurts, draft a QB or try and work a trade.   Tough decision. 
 

The QB class is not great and do you want to take a chance on Wilson or Watson assuming they would entertain going there. 

If I were Philly,  they should trade those picks for next year #1s and a couple of #2s this year and use the 2's to draft....I think there is slim pickings as far as QBs goes in this draft.

[cDAVIS]

To be fair, most QBs never reach the promise land including Kelly. But I do not see them ever being a contender for more then maybe a year or two.

[SoTier]

Josh Allen's first two seasons ...

  2018   11 games  52.8% completions   2074 yards   10 TDs  12 INTs   67.9 QB rating    49.8  QBR     89 rushes   631 yards   8 TDs    8 fumbles

  2019   16 games 58.8% completions   3089 yards  20 TDs     9 INTs  85.3 QB rating    49.4 QBR    109 rushes   510 yards  9 TDs   14 fumbles

 

There were a lot of critics who didn't think that Allen would become a good NFL QB much less one of the best in the NFL.

 

It's a little early to write off either Tua or Hurts since neither has been a dumpster fire in their second seasons, just not Joe Burrow good.

[AlfaBill]

11 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I wouldn't put Lamar or Mayfield anywhere near the likes of Tua or Hurts.

 

Totally different classes of QB, with Lamar the best of them all.  

 

All have flaws though.

 

 

 

 

I think Baker COULD be better. He was injured this year. 
mom not sure why so many like Lamar. I think he’s a great runner but mediocre passer. He also can’t really process the game. 

11 hours ago, NewEra said:

Probably not, but many that decided Josh Allens future based on his first 2 seasons were criminally incorrect 

Who were these many? Outsiders that didn’t watch full games but only highlights? Anyone with a brain stem could see that JA had something special. Not a guarantee that he’d progress as he has, but there was definitely a gamer in him. 

11 hours ago, DJB said:

Tua Tagointerception

Tua Turndaballova’

[John from Riverside]

The reason why Allen is not to be included with those other quarterbacks is because he is involved into a QB they can do it all to many of those quarterbacks mentioned are one dimensional

[dave mcbride]

18 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Hurts looks today just like he looked to me in college - a one-read QB who will never be a natural passer.  He stinks.

 

Tua it’s too early.  I don’t see any real difference between Tua and Mac Jones - both are smart natural throwers who can run an offense but will never be able to stress a defense by throwing to the far areas of the field.  Their ceiling is Alex Smith/Ryan Tannehill - but that doesn’t mean they can’t win super bowls if they’re paired with the right OC and other things break their way.  

The Eagles basically have a Tyrod Taylor situation. Hurts can get you to 8-10 wins (max) and the occasional wild card appearance because he’s a good runner and leader. But his passing game is far too limited to ever get you beyond that. But because he can get you to 9-8 and coaches are terrified of running a young new qb out there and going 5-12 (with said coach possibly getting fired), I expect the Eagles to continue to ride him for a couple of seasons more.

18 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Hurts looks today just like he looked to me in college - a one-read QB who will never be a natural passer.  He stinks.

 

Tua it’s too early.  I don’t see any real difference between Tua and Mac Jones - both are smart natural throwers who can run an offense but will never be able to stress a defense by throwing to the far areas of the field.  Their ceiling is Alex Smith/Ryan Tannehill - but that doesn’t mean they can’t win super bowls if they’re paired with the right OC and other things break their way.  

Also: 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by dave mcbride

[Teddy KGB]

19 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Based on what?

he sucks in the postseason

 

1-3 with more int’s than td’s 

 

Lamar will never sniff a ring 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

21 hours ago, CoudyBills said:

Randall Cunningham?  He was way before Vick.

Fran Tarkenton and Roger Staubach even before that

[Weatherman]

On 1/16/2022 at 11:32 AM, ProcessTruster said:

I like both of these guys in terms of leadership, moxie and athleticism, but they are too much of a liability in the passing game.   Miami and Philly need to draft QBs 

There are worse QB’s who have won a SB.  We lost to two awful QB’s, 2000 Ravens, 2015 Bronco’s (Manning was awful) and last year Brady pretty much did nothing.  

[Shaw66]

On 1/16/2022 at 2:39 PM, Nextmanup said:

I wouldn't put Lamar or Mayfield anywhere near the likes of Tua or Hurts.

 

Totally different classes of QB, with Lamar the best of them all.  

 

All have flaws though.

 

 

 

 

I agree, but they all have the SAME flaw, which is that they aren't elite throwers.   Lamar can survive best because he's a better runner than the others, but unless the NFL changes the rules to outlaw the forward pass, none of them will be big-time NFL quarterbacks.  There's a reason Mayfield and Jackson aren't signed, and there's a reason the Dolphins were interested in Watson.  

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree, but they all have the SAME flaw, which is that they aren't elite throwers.   Lamar can survive best because he's a better runner than the others, but unless the NFL changes the rules to outlaw the forward pass, none of them will be big-time NFL quarterbacks.  There's a reason Mayfield and Jackson aren't signed, and there's a reason the Dolphins were interested in Watson.  

 

Mayfield and Tua are nothing like Jackson and Hurts in style. 

 

My take is Tua is a poor man's Mayfield. 

Hurts is a poor man's Jackson. 

 

Lamar is the only one of those 4 who has an elite attribute.

[T master]

On 1/16/2022 at 1:32 PM, ProcessTruster said:

I like both of these guys in terms of leadership, moxie and athleticism, but they are too much of a liability in the passing game.   Miami and Philly need to draft QBs 

 

Has there ever been a QB that has won a National Championship in college to go on & win a SB in the NFL ? 

 

Color me ignorant when it comes to that stuff but i don't follow it that close . I do know there are a bunch of them that have been busts in the NFL & the Heisman trophy winners usually are terrible in that respect maybe even worse than the National Champion QB's . 

[BigAl2526]

On 1/16/2022 at 2:36 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

And add Lamar to that list.

Lamar has a one of a kind skill set, and Baltimore has built their offensive scheme around it.  It would take a complete philosophical change for Baltimore to go in a different direction and cut bait with Lamar.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Mayfield and Tua are nothing like Jackson and Hurts in style. 

 

My take is Tua is a poor man's Mayfield. 

Hurts is a poor man's Jackson. 

 

Lamar is the only one of those 4 who has an elite attribute.

Agree on your take with Tua. He has a pop gun arm but could survive in a west coast type offense. He is fairly accurate.

 

Hursts is so far below Jackson even calling him a poor man's version of Jackson is too much of a compliment and an insult to Jackson. Jackson is a far more accomplished passer.  His OC has a bad track record over multiple franchises developing a passing attack.  Jackson will never be as good as Allen and it looks like the younger guys Herbert and Burrow have passed him too. If I'm Baltimore I let him play this year on the 5th year guarantee and then franchise tag him next year. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

Has there ever been a QB that has won a National Championship in college to go on & win a SB in the NFL ? 

 

Color me ignorant when it comes to that stuff but i don't follow it that close . I do know there are a bunch of them that have been busts in the NFL & the Heisman trophy winners usually are terrible in that respect maybe even worse than the National Champion QB's . 

First guy that came to mind was Namath.

 

I had to look up the others. 

 

I didn't realize Stabler won a National championship. 

 

Joe Montana 1977 National Champion

 

Troy Aikman was a partial starter for Oklahoma when they won the national championship 

 

A few starting QBs got rings as backups in the NFL like Kosar.

 

And Brady was a backup on Michigan when they shared a national title.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Mayfield and Tua are nothing like Jackson and Hurts in style. 

 

My take is Tua is a poor man's Mayfield. 

Hurts is a poor man's Jackson. 

 

Lamar is the only one of those 4 who has an elite attribute.

Exactly.  

 

Jackson is the only guy who I expect will have a long career as a starter, at least so long as his legs hold out.  Their teams will move on from the others within a year or two.  As someone said, it will be interesting to see what the Eagles do with all their picks.  Mayfield may be with another team next season.  Tua won't last in Miami much longer. 

 

It's just too obvious when you look around the league that your future is limited if you don't have the arm.  You have to be accurate, and you have to have at least decent velocity.  These four are challenged in one or both categories.