Dabol blew it late

[mannc]

7 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

Game on the line - Diggs vs Carlton Davis 1 on 1 with no help to win the game - I like our chances. He didn't misread the situation we just didn't execute. Players have to make plays.

Agreed, but I still hate the call. Just seems low percentage…I want Josh on the move there…

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

Game on the line - Diggs vs Carlton Davis 1 on 1 with no help to win the game - I like our chances. He didn't misread the situation we just didn't execute. Players have to make plays.

 

This. And the refs have to do our job. Game on the line Diggs 1v1 vs anyone that should be the call and to prove the point he had Davis beat and got dragged to the floor. I rarely get angry about ref's calls but I am still steaming over that one. You cannot blow that call. Awful, awful, awful officiating.

 

Where I will agree with the OP is I didn't love the 3 downs to start OT. If you are going to run on 1st down then you have to throw past the sticks on 2nd and 3rd down. 

[DCofNC]

Dabs may be struggling, but Diggs has absolutely blown the last 2 games.  Last week the ball hits him on the arm, in the end zone, don’t give me an excuse, the ball was literally perfect, this week, down the seem he doesn’t know where the ball is again as it drops in his pocket, then the fade, then having no clue the ball was coming again to screw our chances in OT.  He’s either quit again or has something really really wrong with him.  Right now he doesn’t belong in the field and the ball should be going to Davis.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

9 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

That 3rd & 2 call seemed like the wrong choice,  was our best option to throw up a fade pass and hope the refs calls it with two guys fighting for position.  Yes It was a foul but they should have known they were not getting calls late in the game.  I thought we could tried a rub play freeing up either Mckenzie or Beasiey or maybe a Diggs hard to the post.  Last year Josh had success with that goal line pass where he just zips a pass to Beasley before defence can even get set.  All those seemed better options then that fade pass,  I could see if Diggs was 6'4  but not at his size because if there were allowing them to play you want someone strong enough to push off the defender who is holding on.

 

He then starts OT being very conservative with a run and short passes on both 2nd & 3rd down. You make this huge come back and are playing with house money,  I think you need to be more aggressive and play to win.  How about throwing the ball down the field or the middle of field.? You know you have to score because our defence is not going continue to stop Brady and you go conservative and make it easy on them.  After we won the coin toss the mindset should have been we need to score or bust. Dabol has no feel for moment. IMO

 

Definitely agree with you on the OT part.

[Gisele]

27 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Dabs may be struggling, but Diggs has absolutely blown the last 2 games.  Last week the ball hits him on the arm, in the end zone, don’t give me an excuse, the ball was literally perfect, this week, down the seem he doesn’t know where the ball is again as it drops in his pocket, then the fade, then having no clue the ball was coming again to screw our chances in OT.  He’s either quit again or has something really really wrong with him.  Right now he doesn’t belong in the field and the ball should be going to Davis.

Him quitting on the route earlier in the game (I believe it was down the seam in the 3rd quarter) when he was held in inexcusable for a guy with his talent.  Hope for the penalty but keep playing.  Don't start screaming for the flag when the ball is still catchable.

[Bigantall]

9 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

That 3rd & 2 call seemed like the wrong choice,  was our best option to throw up a fade pass and hope the refs calls it with two guys fighting for position.  Yes It was a foul but they should have known they were not getting calls late in the game.  I thought we could tried a rub play freeing up either Mckenzie or Beasiey or maybe a Diggs hard to the post.  Last year Josh had success with that goal line pass where he just zips a pass to Beasley before defence can even get set.  All those seemed better options then that fade pass,  I could see if Diggs was 6'4  but not at his size because if there were allowing them to play you want someone strong enough to push off the defender who is holding on.

 

He then starts OT being very conservative with a run and short passes on both 2nd & 3rd down. You make this huge come back and are playing with house money,  I think you need to be more aggressive and play to win.  How about throwing the ball down the field or the middle of field.? You know you have to score because our defence is not going continue to stop Brady and you go conservative and make it easy on them.  After we won the coin toss the mindset should have been we need to score or bust. Dabol has no feel for moment. IMO

Dabol has to go, next year put your OC on the Damn field he needs to feel the game from players perspective

[Wayne Cubed]

Controversial:  I thought Dabolls offensive game plan this week was pretty good. Agree the 3 calls in OT weren't great. The execution by the OL absolutely sucked, in the first half.

 

It's weird because a lot of the play calls were what was missing last week. 

[colin]

the play that sticks out the most to me: in the first half, where we ran either zero or 1 rb runs so far, we pull some goofy play action from under center (normally, i think this is about our best formation, but with either side of zero attempts to run, it isn't set up), the line parts in the middle (by design) and the MLB who was really close to the line just runs free.  breida comes in late and to high to block him, and josh gets creamed.

 

i am CERTAIN daboll has read the analysis which shows that it doesn't really matter how well you are running for play action to work, i.e. over all play action plays around the league if teams rush for good YPC or not good YPC, you get a gain from play action.  what is missed here is in a game where you are down bad, and are simply not running the ball, the LBs will be much more likely to just blitz immediately rather than be playing back but not deep enough.  so we get a big hit on josh, a loss of yards and a down, and risk a turnover to gain what?  a shot at an 8 yard pick up?

 

even in our best games on O (and this was clearly one of our better ones this season) we kinda just throw stuff against the wall and look to see what sticks.  no wonder we get so many half azzed routes and goofy blocks, do any of our players have confidence in what the coaches are setting the team up to do on O?

[Gugny]

Late???

[colin]

Just now, Wayne Cubed said:

Controversial:  I thought Dabolls offensive game plan this week was pretty good. Agree the 3 calls in OT weren't great. The execution by the OL absolutely sucked, in the first half.

 

It's weird because a lot of the play calls were what was missing last week. 

 

you're not wrong, but imo he like randomly walked into some stuff that was working when josh got hot in the 2nd half.  in the first half, and a couple other drives, nothing he called set anything up, nor was set up by any prior calls.

[Wayne Cubed]

1 minute ago, colin said:

 

you're not wrong, but imo he like randomly walked into some stuff that was working when josh got hot in the 2nd half.  in the first half, and a couple other drives, nothing he called set anything up, nor was set up by any prior calls.

 

I think with what happened in the 2nd half showed what he was calling, in the first half, was good. The difference was the OL was actually blocking. 

 

You have to also remember they call a lot of RPO and 90% of the time Josh pulls the ball. Those long runs that were successful in the 2nd half for Singletary/Brieda were all RPOs, that Josh didn't pull the ball.

[colin]

Just now, Wayne Cubed said:

 

I think with what happened in the 2nd half showed what he was calling, in the first half, was good. The difference was the OL was actually blocking. 

 

You have to also remember they call a lot of RPO and 90% of the time Josh pulls the ball. Those long runs that were successful in the 2nd half for Singletary/Brieda were all RPOs, that Josh didn't pull the ball.

 

 

no, i don't think you can give him that much credit.  part of his calling plays is to call what is best vs the d, and what his players on the field are likely to be able to execute.  also, away from dialing up plays, there needs to be a smart system in place in practice where you are putting money in the bank all year to get really good at some bread and butter stuff, and during the week you have to practice the plays you are gonna feature.

 

he's simply not shown that at all.  every football fan w a good head for the game i know comment that the bills just sort of line up in shotgun, and wr's run around and allen avoids the rush and finds them.  the constant jail breaks are a huge issue, but we don't seem to be able to call draws and screens and quick passes out of jumbo or max protect.  we see our players make mistakes the odd time we attempt these, but to me that's on coaching.  two seasons w the nearly exact same cast on a pro team means you need to have some man, blitz, and zone beaters that you can go to.  

 

dabol is just playing madden out there.  his 2020 season was an aberation because diggs and allen and bease are monsters and covered up for his poor ability.  proof of this is how fast we've fallen apart, and literally every single offensive performance he coached prior to 2020.

[stosh64]

6 hours ago, letsgoteam said:

I dont have anything to back this statement. But I think after he lost BOTH of his grandparents, he hasnt been the same.

 

I remember when my Dad passed away unexpectedly a few years ago. I was messed up (mentally) for months. It also took a few years to realize how messed up I was during that.

FFS, yeah it sucks, but they were GRANDPARENTS.  He was very Blessed to have them around at his age (and SHAPE).  Making excuses for a middle aged man not being able to function for this reason is pathetic.  So you are saying Daboll is as soft as he looks?  That I believe.

Men are turning into such pussies, it's pathetic.

[LabattBlue]

If Daboll and Johnson are back next year, get ready for more of what you are seeing this year.  They both suck. 

[JerseyBills]

14 hours ago, Do The Reich Thing said:

Players did execute. 
 

 

They should have went right back to Diggs on 4th or ran Allen twice there. 

4 hours ago, BTB said:

If Daboll and Johnson are back next year, get ready for more of what you are seeing this year.  They both suck. 

How do you explain 2020 though. How did the red zone O especially, regress so much? I don't think it's squarely coaching 

[Alphadawg7]

Daboll is the #1 achilles heal on this team, and I think its pretty clear.  

 

Agree with the OP...Fade pass on 3rd and 2?  Come on, even Romo said it...this is where you call your BEST play PERIOD.  And a Fade pass, requiring a QB to float a ball before the WR has even run his route or knows he is open is a gamble every time.  First down, sure, go ahead and throw...2nd down, dont love it, but dont hate it. 3rd down, no F-ING way.  

 

We have...ALLENS LEGS.  KNOX SIZE.  COLE SHIFTYNESS.  DAVIS SIZE AND HANDS.  AND DIGGS ROUTE RUNNING AND HANDS.  So what does Daboll due, take all fo that away and choose to throw a coin toss ball to Diggs on a MUST have play.  

 

Everyone knew we could not under any circumstance give Brady a chance to win that game.  You can not try that play figuring we still get OT on the FG.  We needed to know we must run our best play using everything at our disposal to get that TD.  

 

DABOLL needs to go.  He is holding this team back with poor red zone coaching and his allergy to running the football. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

FWIW I think Diggs is hurt.  He kept coming out in the 4Q.

Is that why he kept coming out of the game ?

[JerseyBills]

4 hours ago, BTB said:

If Daboll and Johnson are back next year, get ready for more of what you are seeing this year.  They both suck. 

How do you explain 2020 though. How did the red zone O especially, regress so much? I don't think it's squarely coaching. Seems a few players on the OL regressed which has made for some sloppy , inconsistent drives. 

But I do feel like our lack of rhythm on O is alot to do with coaching

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

5 hours ago, stosh64 said:

FFS, yeah it sucks, but they were GRANDPARENTS.  He was very Blessed to have them around at his age (and SHAPE).  Making excuses for a middle aged man not being able to function for this reason is pathetic.  So you are saying Daboll is as soft as he looks?  That I believe.

Men are turning into such pussies, it's pathetic.

Daboll

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

14 hours ago, 727Bills said:

He needs to go but I only think that happens if he gets hired away or McD is gone.... McD is too stubborn to fire him 

Rick Dennison raises his hand quietly off stage left…

[Coach Tuesday]

For all the hating on Daboll (which I’m good with), the ST coach gave away the fake punt by putting Breida back there for the very first time.  An obvious tell that was promptly blown up.  Just total idiocy.

[MacAttack]

I would trade OC in a second. Moron Josh can't call a game run a two TE offense. Its been better because he fell in love with the power run game but it's the same crap over and over again. I hope he gets a head coach job. So glad we didn't listen to fake plumbers who think they are scouts. 

[LabattBlue]

12 minutes ago, MacAttack said:

I would trade OC in a second. Moron Josh can't call a game run a two TE offense. Its been better because he fell in love with the power run game but it's the same crap over and over again. I hope he gets a head coach job. So glad we didn't listen to fake plumbers who think they are scouts. 

No comprende. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 hours ago, Bandito said:

Sadly, the Bills played for OT. We should have went for it on 4th down. Going into OT with Brady, everyone knew it was going to be a loss

Definitely a hindsight thing…we were saying the exact opposite after the TEN game and TEN was straight up embarrassing our defense down the stretch in that game. Based on the flow of this game I think OT was the right call especially because the bucs run defense is so good so it was a guaranteed passing situation despite being a 4th and 3. Fake punt was pretty terrible and the decision to punt late in the third was bad also but I didn’t hate the fg there

Edited December 13, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[FilthyBeast]

18 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

That 3rd & 2 call seemed like the wrong choice,  was our best option to throw up a fade pass and hope the refs calls it with two guys fighting for position.  Yes It was a foul but they should have known they were not getting calls late in the game.  I thought we could tried a rub play freeing up either Mckenzie or Beasiey or maybe a Diggs hard to the post.  Last year Josh had success with that goal line pass where he just zips a pass to Beasley before defence can even get set.  All those seemed better options then that fade pass,  I could see if Diggs was 6'4  but not at his size because if there were allowing them to play you want someone strong enough to push off the defender who is holding on.

 

He then starts OT being very conservative with a run and short passes on both 2nd & 3rd down. You make this huge come back and are playing with house money,  I think you need to be more aggressive and play to win.  How about throwing the ball down the field or the middle of field.? You know you have to score because our defence is not going continue to stop Brady and you go conservative and make it easy on them.  After we won the coin toss the mindset should have been we need to score or bust. Dabol has no feel for moment. IMO

 

This is what is mind boggling about this coaching staff, they keep going to this type of play over and over again and Diggs never makes a play or they think a flag is going to get called.

 

The smart move would have been to just go with Allen on a RPO play but why do what makes sense and actually try to win the game in regulation.

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

 

He seems clueless as how to properly utilize his personnel at times, I.e not involving Gabriel Davis for a huge part of the year, running Singletary and Breida between the tackles against NE instead of off tackle like too late in the Bucs, not going up Tempo more often to keep defenses guessing and winded.
 

Idk if it was the deaths in his family, but everything about his offense has been off this season from execution, to game-planning, to in game management and adjustments, every facet has taken a step back.

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

3 hours ago, Bandito said:

Sadly, the Bills played for OT. We should have went for it on 4th down. Going into OT with Brady, everyone knew it was going to be a loss

That loss to Tennessee clearly still with McJauron. Goes for the win there, fail, now can’t get out of his own way, goes ultra conservative on the 4th and 3 by choosing to punt despite his offense absolutely rolling.  Just a terrible in game manager, the guy will never win anything worth a damn.

McJauron

Marvin Lewis

jason Garrett

 

these are all different people yet basically the same coach… good enough to keep you winning more than you lose in the regular season, give you some false hope, but will never bring home a Lombardi.  I wanted it to work out as much as the next guy, but I’ve seen enough football and McJauron ain’t the guy to get us to the promise land.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Dr.Mantis_Toboggan

[Niagara Dude]

19 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Yea but the play you run to Diggs there is the one where he undressed Lattimore.

 

50/50 fade balls aren't his thing and I didn't like the call either.  

Exactly because then it's no longer two players fighting for position,  the player needs to tackle him if he gets faked out like Lattimore did.

[Niagara Dude]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Daboll is the #1 achilles heal on this team, and I think its pretty clear.  

 

Agree with the OP...Fade pass on 3rd and 2?  Come on, even Romo said it...this is where you call your BEST play PERIOD.  And a Fade pass, requiring a QB to float a ball before the WR has even run his route or knows he is open is a gamble every time.  First down, sure, go ahead and throw...2nd down, dont love it, but dont hate it. 3rd down, no F-ING way.  

 

We have...ALLENS LEGS.  KNOX SIZE.  COLE SHIFTYNESS.  DAVIS SIZE AND HANDS.  AND DIGGS ROUTE RUNNING AND HANDS.  So what does Daboll due, take all fo that away and choose to throw a coin toss ball to Diggs on a MUST have play.  

 

Everyone knew we could not under any circumstance give Brady a chance to win that game.  You can not try that play figuring we still get OT on the FG.  We needed to know we must run our best play using everything at our disposal to get that TD.  

 

DABOLL needs to go.  He is holding this team back with poor red zone coaching and his allergy to running the football. 

I heard Romo,  it's 3 & 2,  just let Josh sit back there and choose who gets open and with his amazing arm you give yourself a chance.  Dabol had to know the Tampa players were tired at this point and he let them off the hook.  Only way i throw that fade pass is if we had 6'4 receiver who could muscle through contact,  Diggs is not the biggest guy and we made it easy them.  He let the Pats off easy last week and did the same thing in this game.

[Matt_In_NH]

7 hours ago, Bandito said:

Sadly, the Bills played for OT. We should have went for it on 4th down. Going into OT with Brady, everyone knew it was going to be a loss

They did not play for OT.   That is the way it worked out.   They were playing for the win.    What are the analytics that show going for it is the right decision on 4th and 3.   And keep in mind the bills performance inside the 10 this year and the flow of the game which greatly favored the bills.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 12/13/2021 at 5:44 PM, Niagara Dude said:

I heard Romo,  it's 3 & 2,  just let Josh sit back there and choose who gets open and with his amazing arm you give yourself a chance.  Dabol had to know the Tampa players were tired at this point and he let them off the hook.  Only way i throw that fade pass is if we had 6'4 receiver who could muscle through contact,  Diggs is not the biggest guy and we made it easy them.  He let the Pats off easy last week and did the same thing in this game.

Diggs 100% out muscled the contact though…so much so that the bucs defender had to tackle him before the ball got there to save the game.  That was the best look we possibly could’ve asked for in that spot and the refs just hosed us. If they’re gonna get away with that they obviously are gonna hold every receiver until the pass rush gets home if we went to a different receiver.  We are blessed with the power of hindsight…we say Daboll doesn’t call enough runs then he calls runs and we complain…Daboll calls too many runs why do we run at all…Daboll doesn’t hand off to a rb for a half against the best run defense in the league and we complain…Daboll calls too many deep passing routes and we don’t take what the defense is giving us…josh starts checking the ball down more setting up 3rd and mediums that we struggle to convert and people complain.  Let’s give him the rest of the season before we start calling for the guys head. If the execution doesn’t improve obviously we need some kind of change.  But this run that we’re criticizing him for against the pats if moss cuts that outside he’s got pretty much a sure TD so at what point is the execution on the players and not on Daboll? Hats off to our team for Sunday though that loss getting stolen from us absolutely makes me sick…best run defense in the league has free reign to hold your receivers all game long and we still do more than enough to win that is absolutely incredible to me 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Nihilarian]

I dislike the guy already with his crappy game plans and play calls. 

 

Look at Tom Brady and his clean uniform while Josh Allen looks like he was in a real war...

 

Josh Allen has a special arm that very few NFL QBs have and he shouldn't be running the ball by designed run plays by the doofus who can't get a normal run game going.

Like Bruce Arians stated a about Brady running...that'll be enough of that sh!t!! 

 

Daboll sucks as his past record indicates... and he has been riding Josh Allen...who is making him look like he knows what he is doing.

 

I swear, if that moron gets Allen hurt/disabled before he gets his arse fired...

[HOUSE]

Brian Daboll is not great but I see no evidence of blowing

[MrSarcasm]

On 12/13/2021 at 3:32 PM, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

That loss to Tennessee clearly still with McJauron. Goes for the win there, fail, now can’t get out of his own way, goes ultra conservative on the 4th and 3 by choosing to punt despite his offense absolutely rolling.  Just a terrible in game manager, the guy will never win anything worth a damn.

McJauron

Marvin Lewis

jason Garrett

 

these are all different people yet basically the same coach… good enough to keep you winning more than you lose in the regular season, give you some false hope, but will never bring home a Lombardi.  I wanted it to work out as much as the next guy, but I’ve seen enough football and McJauron ain’t the guy to get us to the promise land.

Those three coaches have won a total of 2 playoff games and those 2 wins have come solely from McD. So to lump those dudes together is really disingenuous.

 

And again I ask if you don't like McDermott then who would you hire in his place?(that is available and an upgrade) 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 12/12/2021 at 10:19 PM, Do The Reich Thing said:

Players did execute. 
 

 

Diggs needs to pull a page from Bruce smith and wear a youth sized Jersey that’s too tight to pull. 

[RichRiderBills]

I gotta admit the play calling was and has been odd. I just don't like it. Plays seem reactionary and predictable. Lack of adjustments or over adjustments. I'm of the camp Daboll's success has derived from the unique talent of Allen. 

 

I don't think Daboll is a hack, but he has some catastrophic flaws and tendencies that will hold us back.

 

In the back of my head is Daboll's record. He reportedly had a bad relationship with Saban, and essentially took a lateral position to get out. 

 

He has a ton of OC experience, mainly in bad situations of the last straw years of bad coaches. 

 

2009 Browns offense ranked 32nd, 2010 Browns 29th. 2011 Dolphins 20th, 2012 Chiefs 32nd.

 

Then came exposure to Bill B and Saban, ironically both dedicated to running game coaches.

 

My solution is not to fire Daboll, but I think he needs help. I'd bring in an experienced run game coordinator. I'd revisit Johnson as OL coach. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by RichRiderBills

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Didn't read through the thread but I'm pretty sure that fade is on Josh Allen. 

[TheBrownBear]

Thought so in the moment, but upon reflection I think it was the right call.  We were out of timeouts, so if we were tackled short of the sticks (via sack or whatever) we would have risked not getting a field goal off.  I guess you could have called a different type of passing play/route, but it had to be quick developing to avoid a sack.  I'll take Diggs one-on-one against a middling corner 9 times out of 10 in that situation.  And if the refs had done their job we would have won the game.