If the Bills re-sign Edmunds, they're stupid.

[Royale with Cheese]

19 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

That's wrong.  Cash- wise he makes $5.9 MM this year after making $14.0 MM last year.  His cap figure this year is $8.2 MM. His average annual was $10 MM per year. 

 

He's been absolutely horrible and will be gone in the offseason.

 

Absolutely horrible?  He leads our team in sacks.  He's been our best defensive end.

 

He took a restructure which saved us money....and he lead our team in sacks.  Sounds horrible....

[ArtVandalay]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Absolutely horrible?  He leads our team in sacks.  He's been our best defensive end.

 

He took a restructure which saved us money....and he lead our team in sacks.  Sounds horrible....

Hahahaha! Our best DE? Because you browse a stat sheet and see 7 sacks? Please!

 

No one else has more than 4 sacks, so it's not saying anything big that he's the team leader.  Obada and Epenesa have more QB his than him in their limited time, the dude is invisible on the field.  He grades out poorly on PFF too, 63. 

 

Guy is horrible and will be very happy to see his overpaid butt gone next year.  See ya!

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, ArtVandalay said:

Hahahaha! Our best DE? Because you browse a stat sheet and see 7 sacks? Please!

 

No one else has more than 4 sacks, so it's not saying anything big that he's the team leader.  Obada and Epenesa have more QB his than him in their limited time, the dude is invisible on the field.  He grades out poorly on PFF too, 63. 

 

Guy is horrible and will be very happy to see his overpaid butt gone next year.  See ya!

 

Well, 7 is bigger than 4 and he still leads the team in sacks.  Crazy how Epenesa was a multiple healthy scratch but kept playing Addison.

He was so horrible that he was a regularly on the field.

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said:

Hahahaha! Our best DE? Because you browse a stat sheet and see 7 sacks? Please!

 

No one else has more than 4 sacks, so it's not saying anything big that he's the team leader.  Obada and Epenesa have more QB his than him in their limited time, the dude is invisible on the field.  He grades out poorly on PFF too, 63. 

 

Guy is horrible and will be very happy to see his overpaid butt gone next year.  See ya!

I think Addison is a slightly above average DE who’s better against the pass than the run. The reason the Bills defense excels is not because any one player is a superstar (as evidenced by the lack of pro bowlers), but because all eleven are at least “solid.” Yes, even Edmunds. But imagine if we had someone in the front 7 who was feared? A Watt, or a Bosa, or Parsons. Oliver and Milano are the closest we’ve got, but a feared player would elevate this defense to an even higher level and I do believe you’d see less ho hum performances against the better offenses.
 

With that said, the truth of the matter is there just aren’t any more dominating defenses in this passing game era. The Bills are #1, but would probably be middle of the pack if you were to transport this unit back to the 90s, or even early 2000s. Just have the expectation that it’s not on the defense for the Bills to win their first Super Bowl. It’s all on the Allen-led offense. If Allen climbs out of this rut he’s been in the past couple games and plays lights out in the postseason, I like our chances against any team.

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Robert Saleh thinks he's kinda decent too... for any that may have missed from 1/7.

 

 

 

I am not a Edmunds basher but even I don't compare him favorably to Urlacher. I know we will pay him to keep him but I hope we don't pay him more than Darius Leonard.

[billsbackto81]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Absolutely horrible?  He leads our team in sacks.  He's been our best defensive end.

 

He took a restructure which saved us money....and he lead our team in sacks.  Sounds horrible....

That's like being the most handsome patient in the burn unit. 

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

That's like being the most handsome patient in the burn unit. 

 

So if Addison is horrible, the rest of our DL is almost unplayable?  

Maybe we need to focus all offseason needs on the DL because we're going to need about 8 new DL for next year.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Royale with Cheese

[TBBills]

On 12/12/2021 at 7:57 PM, damj said:

Once again... Edmunds is close, but fails. 

 

I'm not talking about the touchdown... I'm talking 3rd and 3, he penetrates and fails to make the tackle. 

 

He is good. But he is not an impact LB. 

Wtf are you talking about? They aren't resigning him.

[billsbackto81]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So if Addison is horrible, the rest of our DL is almost unplayable?  

Maybe we need to focus all offseason needs on the DL because we're going to need about 8 new DL for next year.

He's not horrible. He's the DE equivalent of Star at DT. Serviceable, but a bad return on investment.

 

God I hate looking at players from a GM perspective.😒

[Victory Formation]

I’ve been saying this for years, I’ve never liked him. Only way it makes sense to keep him is if his $$$$ is low, which I don’t see happening.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said:

He's not horrible. He's the DE equivalent of Star at DT. Serviceable, but a bad return on investment.

 

God I hate looking at players from a GM perspective.😒

Serviceable is a good word. 

[YattaOkasan]

20 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

I feel the same way about our suddenly vaunted run game, being able to run against two lousy defenses.

Not gonna get into the edmunds stuff. You don’t need to feel good about what our OL did in the falcons game, but the Jets have legit talent on the DL. It doesn’t come through in their stats but I feel really good with how the OL handled the Jets DL. 

[damj]

The problem with Edmunds is that some team will probably throw stupid money at him, probably north of $15mil/year. I don't think he's worth that kind of money. That's why I'm saying they'll be stupid to re-sign him at that price. 

[Mat68]

14 hours ago, damj said:

The problem with Edmunds is that some team will probably throw stupid money at him, probably north of $15mil/year. I don't think he's worth that kind of money. That's why I'm saying they'll be stupid to re-sign him at that price. 

How do you go about replacing him?  Rookie to run the defense on a super bowl contender?  Fa?  Who is an upgrade or gives you close to the same for less money?

Edited January 11, 2022 by Mat68

[Max Fischer]

20 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I am not a Edmunds basher but even I don't compare him favorably to Urlacher. I know we will pay him to keep him but I hope we don't pay him more than Darius Leonard.

 

This is a fallacy. NO ONE is suggesting Edmunds would get Darius Leonard money. No one.  

 

IMO, the Bills love Edmunds and believe he is a key reason for why the Bills are a Top 3 defense. It seems certain the Bills will pick up Edmunds' 5th year and then very likely to extend him for around the Sportrac estimate: 5 years, $66,905,730 - or $13,381,146.  Wouldn't be surprised if it's 5/$70. 

 

If the Bills want to replace him with a Free Agent, that's what it will cost (at least).  For those of you who want to replace him with a rookie, tell us how that's not a huge gamble, especially with the Bills in the late rounds and with other much more pressing needs. 

[NewEra]

22 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

That's wrong.  Cash- wise he makes $5.9 MM this year after making $14.0 MM last year.  His cap figure this year is $8.2 MM. His average annual was $10 MM per year. 

 

He's been absolutely horrible and will be gone in the offseason.

He hasn’t been absolutely horrible….. severe overreaction 

[Max Fischer]

16 hours ago, damj said:

The problem with Edmunds is that some team will probably throw stupid money at him, probably north of $15mil/year. I don't think he's worth that kind of money. That's why I'm saying they'll be stupid to re-sign him at that price. 

 

Do you believe the Bills should pick up his 5th year at $12,716,000?  If not, how would you replace him?

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

This is a fallacy. NO ONE is suggesting Edmunds would get Darius Leonard money. No one.  

 

IMO, the Bills love Edmunds and believe he is a key reason for why the Bills are a Top 3 defense. It seems certain the Bills will pick up Edmunds' 5th year and then very likely to extend him for around the Sportrac estimate: 5 years, $66,905,730 - or $13,381,146.  Wouldn't be surprised if it's 5/$70. 

 

If the Bills want to replace him with a Free Agent, that's what it will cost (at least).  For those of you who want to replace him with a rookie, tell us how that's not a huge gamble, especially with the Bills in the late rounds and with other much more pressing needs. 

We already picked up his 5th year option.  He’ll play on it next year unless we extend him.  Oliver is the next 5th year option on the table and will definitely be picked up or extended.  He’s becoming the player that we envisioned him becoming when he was drafted in the top 10

[Mat68]

1 minute ago, Max Fischer said:

 

This is a fallacy. NO ONE is suggesting Edmunds would get Darius Leonard money. No one.  

 

IMO, the Bills love Edmunds and believe he is a key reason for why the Bills are a Top 3 defense. It seems certain the Bills will pick up Edmunds' 5th year and then very likely to extend him for around the Sportrac estimate: 5 years, $66,905,730 - or $13,381,146.  Wouldn't be surprised if it's 5/$70. 

 

If the Bills want to replace him with a Free Agent, that's what it will cost (at least).  For those of you who want to replace him with a rookie, tell us how that's not a huge gamble, especially with the Bills in the late rounds and with other much more pressing needs. 

Drought Bills thinking imo.  Random player isnt the best best at his position.  Let him walk because he wants too much money.  Spend the next 3 months watching youtube videos to find his replacement. Maybe they draft the guy you want.  Can complain its not the guy you wanted.  Neither are an upgrade.  Hey look that guy we let walk is on ESPN making plays.  Why cant we just pay our own guys.  Rinse and repeat.

[Max Fischer]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

We already picked up his 5th year option.  He’ll play on it next year unless we extend him.  Oliver is the next 5th year option on the table and will definitely be picked up or extended.  He’s becoming the player that we envisioned him becoming when he was drafted in the top 10

 

I stand corrected.

 

IMO, Edmunds certainly outperformed the first for years of his contract, and believe he will still be a bargain with the 5th year averaged in. I have no reason to believe Edmunds won't be as good in Year 5 and beyond, which would make an extension not only preferable but close to a necessity. 

[Shaw66]

23 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Robert Saleh thinks he's kinda decent too... for any that may have missed from 1/7.

 

 

 

Not that I think I'm kind of football guru, but I've been saying for a couple of years now that I suspect football people think Edmunds is special.   It's pretty amazing to hear a great defensive mind say these things about Edmunds.   Notice that he doesn't say he's a great tackler, and he doesn't say that he's a great instinctive player, the criticism that many have of the guy.   What he says is Edmunds combination of speed and size makes him unique in terms of the amount of the field he covers.   

 

This clip alone convinces me the Bills will keep Edmunds.  

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Max Fischer said:

 

I stand corrected.

 

IMO, Edmunds certainly outperformed the first for years of his contract, and believe he will still be a bargain with the 5th year averaged in. I have no reason to believe Edmunds won't be as good in Year 5 and beyond, which would make an extension not only preferable but close to a necessity. 

I hope he can become as good as Ed.  

[Mango]

23 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Robert Saleh thinks he's kinda decent too... for any that may have missed from 1/7.

 

 

 

 

I honestly don't know what to think of Edmunds. I love him, but he also drives me nuts. I want to keep him, I don't want to lose him. But I have no interest in paying him $15-18M that I have seen. 

Interesting statement. The comments on Milano are about how instinctual and tough he is (not that Edmunds isn't tough), but the comments on Edmunds are about how big and fast he is. How much space he takes away just by being out there. 

[Max Fischer]

15 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I honestly don't know what to think of Edmunds. I love him, but he also drives me nuts. I want to keep him, I don't want to lose him. But I have no interest in paying him $15-18M that I have seen. 

Interesting statement. The comments on Milano are about how instinctual and tough he is (not that Edmunds isn't tough), but the comments on Edmunds are about how big and fast he is. How much space he takes away just by being out there. 

 

Who is saying $15M to 18M? I have yet to see those numbers from anyone but Bills fans who don't like Edmunds. 5yr/$70M could be on the high end. 

 

[FilthyBeast]

If the Bills do lose Frazier to a HC gig, don't underestimate a potential Edmunds trade this offseason.

 

In fact even if Frazier stays it could happen.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Who is saying $15M to 18M? I have yet to see those numbers from anyone but Bills fans who don't like Edmunds. 5yr/$70M could be on the high end. 

 

I am relying on some reading on last year. But 5 year $70M is still a $14M valuation, and not that far off from where I listed. I would have a tough time valuing Edmunds at $3-4M per year more than Milano. For a guy making $10-11M per year, another $3-4M is a huge increase. 

[FireChans]

On 1/10/2022 at 1:04 PM, 34-78-83 said:

Robert Saleh thinks he's kinda decent too... for any that may have missed from 1/7.

 

 

 

 

Will if this defensive mastermind thinks it....

[Max Fischer]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I am relying on some reading on last year. But 5 year $70M is still a $14M valuation, and not that far off from where I listed. I would have a tough time valuing Edmunds at $3-4M per year more than Milano. For a guy making $10-11M per year, another $3-4M is a huge increase. 

 

You characterize $3-4M difference as "huge increase" but also $3M ($15M-$18M) as "not that far off . . .

 

First, despite consistent fan predictions/concerns that Edmunds will be paid Leonard, Warner and Wagner money, there is no, zip, nada, evidence that the Bills are considering that salary, no evidence that Edmunds will ask for that kind of money, or that Edmunds is expected to be offered that salary range. Per usual, no one associated with the Bills has said anything, and I've yet to see any non-Bill fan "cap expert" suggest that Edmunds is worth or will be paid like Leonard, Warner and Wagner.

 

Second, many good football experts say Milano and Edmunds positions are interchangeable. I agree, to a point, but the Bills seem to play to their strengths - Milano as a missile to seek and destroy, while Edmunds is much more a space eater, making the pass game much more difficult.  Clearly not everyone agrees, but I think the Bills believe Edmunds' skillset is much harder to replicate than Milano's. The Bills need them both to be an elite defense, but believe the Bills are willing to pay Edmunds more than Milano because Tremaine's replacement would be much, much harder to find, and those worth more to the team.

2 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

If the Bills do lose Frazier to a HC gig, don't underestimate a potential Edmunds trade this offseason.

 

In fact even if Frazier stays it could happen.

 

Not unless terms start with two early first round picks. 

[Orlando Tim]

8 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

 

This is a fallacy. NO ONE is suggesting Edmunds would get Darius Leonard money. No one.  

 

IMO, the Bills love Edmunds and believe he is a key reason for why the Bills are a Top 3 defense. It seems certain the Bills will pick up Edmunds' 5th year and then very likely to extend him for around the Sportrac estimate: 5 years, $66,905,730 - or $13,381,146.  Wouldn't be surprised if it's 5/$70. 

 

If the Bills want to replace him with a Free Agent, that's what it will cost (at least).  For those of you who want to replace him with a rookie, tell us how that's not a huge gamble, especially with the Bills in the late rounds and with other much more pressing needs. 

With the salary cap about to pop up I expect all position #s to inflate so I think the 5 years at 70 is gonna be on the low end. I hope we sign him sooner rather than later but I know that unless he is being outrageous he will be resigned. Lastly the Sportrac numbers do not factor in Fred Warner or Leonard contracts and compares him to guys he generally better than besides CJ Mosley.

[Floydboy12]

No way I’d sign Edmunds to extension. Average to poor instincts which haven’t improved and soft. I liked the pick too when it was made due to his measurables. But he’s a mediocre player not worth a huge deal.  Accept the miss and draft another lb. Use the money elsewhere. 

[ColoradoBills]

8 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Who is saying $15M to 18M? I have yet to see those numbers from anyone but Bills fans who don't like Edmunds. 5yr/$70M could be on the high end. 

 

 

Probably spot on.  Spotrac has at 5 years/$67M ($13.3M per)

Milano signed for $10.3M and I'm speculating that Edmunds signs for $12.3M per on a 4 year deal.

[Rk_Bills86]

Isn't he already signed for 12 million next year?

 

That being said i'm fine with 1 more year of him if we can draft his repalcement

[Chandler#81]

13 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Not that I think I'm kind of football guru, but I've been saying for a couple of years now that I suspect football people think Edmunds is special.   It's pretty amazing to hear a great defensive mind say these things about Edmunds.   Notice that he doesn't say he's a great tackler, and he doesn't say that he's a great instinctive player, the criticism that many have of the guy.   What he says is Edmunds combination of speed and size makes him unique in terms of the amount of the field he covers.   

 

This clip alone convinces me the Bills will keep Edmunds.  

This should be Thread (with the attached prior video) -and I’m sure I’ll regret not ending this farce on this note. 
But this thread is like watching a slow motion car wreck. Just can’t turn away… 🤷‍♂️

[Putin]

On 12/12/2021 at 7:21 PM, Utah John said:

Edmunds is playing the way Frazier wants him to play. Frazier has constructed the D to work as an 11 man unit.  Edmunds is not called on to make those impact plays.  He's there to eat up space on pass D, and to fill gaps on running plays.  Those gaps fills are a problem, I'll agree.  He's just not as bad a player as people here think he is.  

No he’s pretty bad 

[damj]

19 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Who is saying $15M to 18M? I have yet to see those numbers from anyone but Bills fans who don't like Edmunds. 5yr/$70M could be on the high end. 

 

And if it's ~13mil, that's fine. 

 

Maybe the "potential" argument is winding down. We've heard for so long that he's young and has great size and athleticism ... he'll grow into an elite player. I think we're seeing what he is now ... a good player with flaws. I just don't want to see us overpaying if the market still thinks of him in terms of elite potential and seriously overpay.

[BuffaloRebound]

I haven’t been a huge fan of Edmunds, but he’s played better this year and I think all things considered there’s not 5 MLB’s out there who fit better in this defense.  I could live with 5 years $70m.  

[DCOrange]

20 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Who is saying $15M to 18M? I have yet to see those numbers from anyone but Bills fans who don't like Edmunds. 5yr/$70M could be on the high end. 

 

The Bills analyst guys like Cover1 are saying people act like Edmunds will set the market at LB when in reality, he'll probably be valued like Deion Jones, Zach Cunningham, and Myles Jack. They all got just under $15 million per year and considering they all signed a few years ago, it wouldn't be surprising to see him exceed $15 million per.

[dave mcbride]

Edmunds played great in the Jets game. All over the field and a presence in coverage. There's a reason Wilson took all of those sacks.

[DCOrange]

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Edmunds played great in the Jets game. All over the field and a presence in coverage. There's a reason Wilson took all of those sacks.

Devil's advocate is that a big reason Wilson took all of those sacks is because that's who Zach Wilson is. He just refuses to take the easy throws. Cover1 was pointing out how often he had open guys underneath but just preferred to run around in circles instead of getting the ball out.

[Mango]

18 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

 

You characterize $3-4M difference as "huge increase" but also $3M ($15M-$18M) as "not that far off . . .

 

First, despite consistent fan predictions/concerns that Edmunds will be paid Leonard, Warner and Wagner money, there is no, zip, nada, evidence that the Bills are considering that salary, no evidence that Edmunds will ask for that kind of money, or that Edmunds is expected to be offered that salary range. Per usual, no one associated with the Bills has said anything, and I've yet to see any non-Bill fan "cap expert" suggest that Edmunds is worth or will be paid like Leonard, Warner and Wagner.

 

Second, many good football experts say Milano and Edmunds positions are interchangeable. I agree, to a point, but the Bills seem to play to their strengths - Milano as a missile to seek and destroy, while Edmunds is much more a space eater, making the pass game much more difficult.  Clearly not everyone agrees, but I think the Bills believe Edmunds' skillset is much harder to replicate than Milano's. The Bills need them both to be an elite defense, but believe the Bills are willing to pay Edmunds more than Milano because Tremaine's replacement would be much, much harder to find, and those worth more to the team.

 

Not unless terms start with two early first round picks. 

 

No $14M isn't far off of $15M....because it is not. $14 to $18M is a jump, fine. I think I would cringe hard at the $12-15M mark. $15M plus is a hard pass. If we can get this done for the same as Milano's deal I would be OK. And yes Edmunds making $14M to Milano's $10 and change is about a ~35% increase.