After watching the yardsperpass videos...Josh owns these issues toos...

[Hebert19]

Just posting the one here but take a look at the others.  2020 josh was way more decisive than he is in this game.  If anything when being pressured he should be more decisive instead he's holding the ball too long. 

 

See this one.  Yes the line collapses.  As it does in most of the videos but here is where josh of old would have won that game.  

 

1.   There is a lane to run. 

2.  If he throws at bottom of drop to the hole where Diggs is going its a chance at a big play.  

 

If you watch others he has the check down or quick routes open all day and doesn't take them.  

 

Oline was ***** but Josh has to be better. 

 

 

[FilthyBeast]

Just now, Hebert19 said:

Just posting the one here but take a look at the others.  2020 josh was way more decisive than he is in this game.  If anything when being pressured he should be more decisive instead he's holding the ball too long. 

 

See this one.  Yes the line collapses.  As it does in most of the videos but here is where josh of old would have won that game.  

 

1.   There is a lane to run. 

2.  If he throws at bottom of drop to the hole where Diggs is going its a chance at a big play.  

 

If you watch others he has the check down or quick routes open all day and doesn't take them.  

 

Oline was ***** but Josh has to be better. 

 

 

 

Allen has not been nearly as good as last year despite some misleading comparisons being thrown out there on his YTD numbers vs 2020 halfway point, but you can't put everything on him when you are under pressure from the moment the football is snapped on seemingly almost every pass play.

 

But again, a lot of this also has to do with the fact that teams know we can't run the ball and are going to abandon any feeble attempt to do it quickly especially in a close game. And just like with what's happening with KC, teams are going to continue to give the same cove2 shell looks and bring pressure in the middle because it's working.

[Gugny]

10 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Allen has not been nearly as good as last year despite some misleading comparisons being thrown out there on his YTD numbers vs 2020 halfway point, but you can't put everything on him when you are under pressure from the moment the football is snapped on seemingly almost every pass play.

 

But again, a lot of this also has to do with the fact that teams know we can't run the ball and are going to abandon any feeble attempt to do it quickly especially in a close game. And just like with what's happening with KC, teams are going to continue to give the same cove2 shell looks and bring pressure in the middle because it's working.

 

Bills are 10th in the NFL for rushing yards per game and 7th in the NFL for YPC.

 

I don't think the problem is that we "can't run the ball."  I think it's more that we "don't run the ball at the right times."

 

[SirAndrew]

All I see is a check down Allen could have taken if he decided to throw in under a second. I’m willing to bet Brady takes a sack 9 out of 10 times on the same play. Allen made mistakes, but when o line play is that poor, I can’t even start to analyze the QB. 

 

[Hebert19]

23 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Allen has not been nearly as good as last year despite some misleading comparisons being thrown out there on his YTD numbers vs 2020 halfway point, but you can't put everything on him when you are under pressure from the moment the football is snapped on seemingly almost every pass play.

 

But again, a lot of this also has to do with the fact that teams know we can't run the ball and are going to abandon any feeble attempt to do it quickly especially in a close game. And just like with what's happening with KC, teams are going to continue to give the same cove2 shell looks and bring pressure in the middle because it's working.

Agree.   I think the oline is ***** and our RBs are below average so you are preaching to the choir.  But to win that game...a decisive josh gets it done. 

13 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Bills are 10th in the NFL for rushing yards per game and 7th in the NFL for YPC.

 

I don't think the problem is that we "can't run the ball."  I think it's more that we "don't run the ball at the right times."

 

You realize that the Allen has 319 yards and a 5.6 average many if which are scrambles.  

[Big Turk]

15 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Bills are 10th in the NFL for rushing yards per game and 7th in the NFL for YPC.

 

I don't think the problem is that we "can't run the ball."  I think it's more that we "don't run the ball at the right times."

 

 

Well I think this is a little misleading because much of that is due to Allen running.

 

Basically I think what most people are saying is that we struggle to run the ball in the traditional sense of turning around and handing it off to a back, and that's true even against light boxes.

 

Part of the reason why teams are able to drop into coverage and prevent our passing game from being what it used to be is because they can stop the run with their front 4 and typically stop it for losses or 1 or 2 yard gains. That's pathetic honestly...5 guys blocking 4 and we still get no push at all.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Big Turk

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Agree.   I think the oline is ***** and our RBs are below average so you are preaching to the choir.  But to win that game...a decisive josh gets it done. 

You realize that the Allen has 319 yards and a 5.6 average many if which are scrambles.  

 

I don't know how many were scrambles, actually.  I'd be interested to know and would guess that more than half were designed runs.

 

[Hebert19]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

I don't know how many were scrambles, actually.  I'd be interested to know and would guess that more than half were designed runs.

 

He's had 3 carries for more than 20 yards in last few games.  All scrambles.  

 

Designed runs haven't worked this year at all.  See red zone efficiency if you need a reminder. 

[ngbills]

40 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Just posting the one here but take a look at the others.  2020 josh was way more decisive than he is in this game.  If anything when being pressured he should be more decisive instead he's holding the ball too long. 

 

See this one.  Yes the line collapses.  As it does in most of the videos but here is where josh of old would have won that game.  

 

1.   There is a lane to run. 

2.  If he throws at bottom of drop to the hole where Diggs is going its a chance at a big play.  

 

If you watch others he has the check down or quick routes open all day and doesn't take them.  

 

Oline was ***** but Josh has to be better. 

 

 

Just one play but we see Daboll stuck on deep corners and mid curls that require time. The outlet is RB slow release into the flat. Why is there no quick slant or hitch as a hot route? It was clear he has not time. 

[HappyDays]

Are you serious with this? He gets hit from behind by the blind side rusher within 3 seconds. Why would he think to throw a check down 2 seconds after the snap? It's an impossible situation. An offense can't live and die on short routes and check downs. But our offensive line can't hold up long enough for deep routes to develop.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

When I look at that video I see 3 WR running 15-20 yard plus routes, by the time The TE and back flare out the Line had collapsed. I think given the game of the line not holding up , our WR routes need to be shorter or faster..

Edited November 10, 2021 by loveorhatembillsfan4life

[LABILLBACKER]

44 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Bills are 10th in the NFL for rushing yards per game and 7th in the NFL for YPC.

 

I don't think the problem is that we "can't run the ball."  I think it's more that we "don't run the ball at the right times."

 

Take JA out of the equation on running stats. Just use our 2 primary backs. Then where do we rank?  Half the time Josh is running for his life. Our terrible OL has already collapsed. I love the idea of occassionally using Josh as a running weapon but Daboll uses him constantly because he knows our OL/RB combo is worthless. One of these plays has going to get popped and be out for the season. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by LABILLBACKER

[ngbills]

3 minutes ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

When I look at that video I see 3 WR running 15-20 yard plus routes, by the time The TE and back flare out the Line had collapsed. I think given the game of the line not holding up , our WR routes need to be shorter or faster..

Bingo and this is a very common play design. You need a quick option for Allen or his only choice is to scramble. 

[JerseyBills]

Get ready for a ton of delusion

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Well I think this is a little misleading because much of that is due to Allen running.

 

The Bills are gaining on average ~120 ypg, 11th in the league

Allen contributes on average ~40 ypg

 

The order of teams would shift a fair bit if the QB contributions were subtracted (and not necessarily on the teams you might think, either)

For example, the Ravens are #1 in the league for rushing, but Lamar Jackson contributes 75 of their 160 ypg.  Without him, they gain 85 ypg or 5 more ypg than Buffalo achieves without Allen's contributions.

 

18 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Part of the reason why teams are able to drop into coverage and prevent our passing game from being what it used to be is because they can stop the run with their front 4 and typically stop it for losses or 1 or 2 yard gains. That's pathetic honestly...5 guys blocking 4 and we still get no push at all.

 

Judging by today's presser, I don't think Coach McDermott would disagree with you.

[MJS]

Allen has never been a QB that gets the ball out quickly. He extends the play and tries to allow for routes to develop.

 

Sometimes it hurts you, but often times it helps you. He is never going to be a guy who consistently gets the ball out in 2 seconds. That's not who he is.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Take JA out of the equation on running stats. Just use our 2 primary backs. Then where do we rank?

 

That's a tougher question than you might believe to answer, because you would have to find and remove the contribution of QB rushes from all of the teams, and it's not always obvious which teams those are.

 

For example, Ravens are durrr of course, but Murray actually doesn't contribute that many of the Cardinals rushing yards, while Fields does contribute a lot for the Bears.

 

The order shifts around substantially.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

50 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Bills are 10th in the NFL for rushing yards per game and 7th in the NFL for YPC.

 

I don't think the problem is that we "can't run the ball."  I think it's more that we "don't run the ball at the right times."

 

Or they  just don’t  run the ball enough with the right people 

 

Josh is pretty much the leading rusher. 

if they have to “spy” on Josh 

someone will get open. 

 

He should of had more designed runs over the Pass first mentality that Daboll insists on. 

 

different teams need different strategies 

 

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

39 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Bills are 10th in the NFL for rushing yards per game and 7th in the NFL for YPC.

 

I don't think the problem is that we "can't run the ball."  I think it's more that we "don't run the ball at the right times."

 

I don't think we're a very good run team. 

 

Moss stinks, so you're shoveling carries into a landfill if he is your primary back. 

 

Singletary has a great average, but it seems we never see him get more than 10-carries, so hard to tell how efficient giving him that many snaps really is. 

 

Right now Allen is 1/3rd of our run output (Singletary 355, Moss 233 yards, Allen 319 yards).  

[Gugny]

Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don't think we're a very good run team. 

 

Moss stinks, so you're shoveling carries into a landfill if he is your primary back. 

 

Singletary has a great average, but it seems we never see him get more than 10-carries, so hard to tell how efficient giving him that many snaps really is. 

 

Right now Allen is 1/3rd of our run output (Singletary 355, Moss 233 yards, Allen 319 yards).  

 

I respectfully disagree re: Moss.

 

Totally agree that we don't see enough Singletary.  The (lazy) narrative is that he "can't handle," more carries, but that has literally never been proven out.

 

I personally like RB by committee (ask Tennessee why), but I think what's hampering run success is a) a horrid OL and b) game-planning/strategy.

 

I'm not gonna bash Daboll.  This is an offense scoring over 30 points/game.  But I do think he can do some things to make the offense less predictable.

 

I'll give @Beerballcredit for the last thing I'll say.  Paraphrasing what he said:  "We're taking what the defense gives us instead of taking what we want."  I think there's a time to do that.  A game against the worst team in the NFL was not that time, IMO.

 

[ngbills]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don't think we're a very good run team. 

 

Moss stinks, so you're shoveling carries into a landfill if he is your primary back. 

 

Singletary has a great average, but it seems we never see him get more than 10-carries, so hard to tell how efficient giving him that many snaps really is. 

 

Right now Allen is 1/3rd of our run output (Singletary 355, Moss 233 yards, Allen 319 yards).  

At times Singletary has looked better this year. He seemed to have an extra burst but I dont think they have ever given him a really chance. It is also interesting that since the HOU game his carries have come down and the O has also looked worse. 

[Heels20X6]

1 minute ago, ngbills said:

At times Singletary has looked better this year. He seemed to have an extra burst but I dont think they have ever given him a really chance. It is also interesting that since the HOU game his carries have come down and the O has also looked worse. 

Someone mentioned it before, but Singletary was a workhorse back in college.  He needs 10-15 carries to get going.  Not 10-15 carries a game.  And he doesn't have the best first-step so using him for quick passes/screens is pointless.

[Motorin']

26 minutes ago, MJS said:

Allen has never been a QB that gets the ball out quickly. He extends the play and tries to allow for routes to develop.

 

Sometimes it hurts you, but often times it helps you. He is never going to be a guy who consistently gets the ball out in 2 seconds. That's not who he is.

 

I agree... But... he needs to develop that skill...  If he was able to shred teams consistently with quick 5-7 yard passing they'd have to shift to stop it. 

[MJS]

11 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

I agree... But... he needs to develop that skill...  If he was able to shred teams consistently with quick 5-7 yard passing they'd have to shift to stop it. 

It wouldn't be such a necessity if the offensive line could block for him. But yeah, the more tools in his toolbox that he has, the better.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

20 minutes ago, ngbills said:

At times Singletary has looked better this year. He seemed to have an extra burst but I dont think they have ever given him a really chance. It is also interesting that since the HOU game his carries have come down and the O has also looked worse. 

For the WGR crowd, we definitely pass a ton. 

 

Allen had 47 attempts on Sunday and Singletary had 6 carries.  

 

So I know they beat the drum of pass = aggressive = points and run = conservative = low scoring. 

 

But Allen has had 47-42-47 attempts the last 3 weeks, and Singletary has been 5-7-6 attempts. 

 

So realistically, we are passing as much as we possibly can as a team, and this line is crumbling. 

 

 

[colin]

7 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

For the WGR crowd, we definitely pass a ton. 

 

Allen had 47 attempts on Sunday and Singletary had 6 carries.  

 

So I know they beat the drum of pass = aggressive = points and run = conservative = low scoring. 

 

But Allen has had 47-42-47 attempts the last 3 weeks, and Singletary has been 5-7-6 attempts. 

 

So realistically, we are passing as much as we possibly can as a team, and this line is crumbling. 

 

 

 

 

ya, our play calling is simply not getting it done.  what's worse, we aren't fooling anyone.  we seem to run into a knowing D and pass into a D who knows our line calls and how to exploit them, and we are left with no answer.

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Allen has not been nearly as good as last year despite some misleading comparisons being thrown out there on his YTD numbers vs 2020 halfway point, but you can't put everything on him when you are under pressure from the moment the football is snapped on seemingly almost every pass play.

 

But again, a lot of this also has to do with the fact that teams know we can't run the ball and are going to abandon any feeble attempt to do it quickly especially in a close game. And just like with what's happening with KC, teams are going to continue to give the same cove2 shell looks and bring pressure in the middle because it's working.

They blitzed heavily. Allen refused to take many underneath yardage

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

They blitzed heavily. Allen refused to take many underneath yardage

Nothing comes easy to this offense right now.

 

The Bills don’t get any 2 play, 75 yard drives.

 

We have no over the top speed, or big play ability.

 

Our YAC is 2.87 yards right now.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

That clip is hard to watch. 

Widddddde open. 

Just needed to step up and deliver the ball.

[Nextmanup]

Something I am tuning into more and more as the week unfolds is that we weren't adjusting our routes nearly enough, given that it was almost a historically bad day for the O line.

We couldn't block anyone and it was a gigantic problem...and yet look at the video the OP posted here.  Everyone is running a deep route that takes huge time to develop.

 

We could have helped our own cause with more short to mid routes IMO.

 

 

[ngbills]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

Something I am tuning into more and more as the week unfolds is that we weren't adjusting our routes nearly enough, given that it was almost a historically bad day for the O line.

We couldn't block anyone and it was a gigantic problem...and yet look at the video the OP posted here.  Everyone is running a deep route that takes huge time to develop.

 

We could have helped our own cause with more short to mid routes IMO.

 

 

I have been slamming the table on this. Not to mention yelling at the screen on game day. We have no time yet Daboll still has Diggs and Sanders running long developing routes. It could be on Josh not calling for an adjustment at the line. But this is where they need to get on the same page and have the WR breaking routes off early. Beas on this play should run the quick slant or in not a curl route. But if you slow it down you do see that Josh should have felt the pressure and quickly gone to Sweeney but he is only looking at Diggs. 

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Nothing comes easy to this offense right now.

 

The Bills don’t get any 2 play, 75 yard drives.

 

We have no over the top speed, or big play ability.

 

Our YAC is 2.87 yards right now.

Imo it's because what I been saying, Allen's refusal to take the easy underneath 5 -10 yards is killing us. Defenses are able to play deeper in their zones.  It's a drive killer and needs to be corrected asap

2 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I have been slamming the table on this. Not to mention yelling at the screen on game day. We have no time yet Daboll still has Diggs and Sanders running long developing routes. It could be on Josh not calling for an adjustment at the line. But this is where they need to get on the same page and have the WR breaking routes off early. Beas on this play should run the quick slant or in not a curl route. But if you slow it down you do see that Josh should have felt the pressure and quickly gone to Sweeney but he is only looking at Diggs. 

🎯

[Dablitzkrieg]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Bills are 10th in the NFL for rushing yards per game and 7th in the NFL for YPC.

 

I don't think the problem is that we "can't run the ball."  I think it's more that we "don't run the ball at the right times."

 

Let's be real.  The rushing numbers are drastically inflated due to Allen's rushing #'s

[BillsFan1]

When Josh was at his best the game was simple for him.    Get the ball to Diggs,   He can and Diggs knows how  to get open. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

14 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Imo it's because what I been saying, Allen's refusal to take the easy underneath 5 -10 yards is killing us. Defenses are able to play deeper in their zones.  It's a drive killer and needs to be corrected asap

🎯

He threw 47 times for 260 yards at 66% completion.

 

The answer is he needed to dump off more?

[JerseyBills]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

He threw 47 times for 260 yards at 66% completion.

 

The answer is he needed to dump off more?

The answer is on 10-12 of those throws he needed to sling it underneath once his right foot hit the drop back. 

[ProcessTruster]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

Allen has never been a QB that gets the ball out quickly. He extends the play and tries to allow for routes to develop.

 

Sometimes it hurts you, but often times it helps you. He is never going to be a guy who consistently gets the ball out in 2 seconds. That's not who he is.

yep, he's no dink and dunker.. that's why he is seeing zone shells and having trouble with them.   He's young, he will learn and he is learning.

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

They blitzed heavily. Allen refused to take many underneath yardage

 

They hardly blitzed at all unless third and long sometimes.  Allen took underneath yardage all day.  What did it get them?  Throwing to the back all game doesnt get you anywhere.  Routes take too long to develop for this o line.  What game were you watching?

[UKBillFan]

12 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

yep, he's no dink and dunker.. that's why he is seeing zone shells and having trouble with them.   He's young, he will learn and he is learning.

So are we going to go into a growing pains year where our offensive struggles do not improve as we give Josh an opportunity to develop - and pray he does for a go at the Super Bowl next year? Alternatively, optimistically, does he learn quickly and we see rapid improvement on that score which helps confuse defences and help move the chains? Or, pessimistically, does Josh struggle to adapt and regress even further?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

55 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

yep, he's no dink and dunker.. that's why he is seeing zone shells and having trouble with them.   He's young, he will learn and he is learning.

I think the real answer here is the Bills have to keep pumping resources into pass catching options and protection. 
 

We tried the stand pat/continuity path this off-season and the league catches up.