PostGame Thread Bills @ Bears

[That's No Moon]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Reports from camp have been that McKenzie has been waaAAAAaaayyy ahead of the other returners in terms of ball security.

So nobody is catching the ball.  That bodes well.

I would be surprised if we aren't combing other rosters on cut down day looking for a kick returner. McKenzie makes the team either way.

[Chandler#81]

11 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Just watching the replay now and Kumerow TOWERS over Hollister, a TE. I know it's a dead horse, but I really hope they get this guy involved as at LEAST a RedZone threat this year. His physical frame combined w/ his fluidity and (so far) decent hands, I can see why Rodgers gave him the seal of approval. 

He lost 2 hand battles with DBs and, imo, should have positioned his body better to fend off at least one pbu.

8 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I havnt gotten to watch today’s game yet with a bunch of summer festivities going on. I know we sat basically all our heavy hitters. Did our backups do all that damage vs the bears starters or were they missing quite a few pieces as well? 
 

Like was rousseaus sack play against the starter? AJ’s? Were the bears starting db’s in at all? 

It would certainly seem Chicago rested starters, but no, many played the entire 1st half. Chitown really pumped this game up as their ‘Welcome Back, Fans!’ homecoming. The place looked like a sellout crowd at 1st. Fields & Dalton are 1-2 and they played the whole game. Trubisky outran Mack on a scramble. Both their lines were destroyed all game. Bears aren’t very good and their coach seems even worse. 
 

T’was a beat down.

[John from Riverside]

40 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

He lost 2 hand battles with DBs and, imo, should have positioned his body better to fend off at least one pbu.

It would certainly seem Chicago rested starters, but no, many played the 1st half. Chitown really pumped this game up as their ‘Welcome Back, Fans!’ homecoming. The place looked like a sellout crowd at 1st. Fields & Dalton are 1-2 and they played the whole game. Trubisky outran Mack on a scramble. Both their lines were destroyed all game. Bears aren’t very good and their coach seems even worse. 
 

T’was a beat down.

Kumerow still had the touchdown and some great catches

Edited August 22, 2021 by John from Riverside

[Chandler#81]

Game highlights 

[LyndonvilleBill]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Both are listed at 6’4”.  The towering may be a camera perspective

Yup. And they both look small when Brown was celebrating with them after Kumerow's TD catch. 😱

[YoloinOhio]

 

[machine gun kelly]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

The problem is we can't just easily choose who goes on the PS. We have to cut down to 53... meaning cut all the guys you hope to get on the PS. Other teams can claim those players for 24 hours. Once they clear that 24 hours, it's their choice where they want to sign.

 

I don't care if either Webb or Fromme gets signed. I prefer Webb, but I am fine with Fromme on the PS.

 

I'm more worried about keeping certain players like Stevenson or Hodgins as the team clearly likes them but they just aren't there yet.

Transplant, I know they have to released and resigned to PS.  100% agree on Stevenson.  A weaker team could easily scoop him up.  As a brief example, look his dysfunctional Chicago looked yesterday.  You know they need better talent.  We’re entering after 5 beautiful years of the McBeane regime of having to lose players we don’t want to lose.  We’re safer on Hodgins as he hasn’t done much in the NFL, and was a 6th.

[JMF2006]

I just don't understand the Bears not picking up True Biscuits 5th year option.

 

The guy had a winning record and they could have used the draft capital used on Fields to get him a better supporting cast.

 

Well he got his revenge

[Chandler#81]

BREAKING NEWS: Chicago’s Finest 1st Responders SCUBA Team have found Justin Fields helmet in the deepest section of Lake Michigan!

[JMF2006]

8 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

BREAKING NEWS: Chicago’s Finest Ist Responders SCUBA Team have found Justin Fields helmet in the deepest section of Lake Michigan!

 

Like Madden used to say in the game "look there is a helmet rolling across the field....lets hope his heads not in it "

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

He lost 2 hand battles with DBs and, imo, should have positioned his body better to fend off at least one pbu.

It would certainly seem Chicago rested starters, but no, many played the entire 1st half. Chitown really pumped this game up as their ‘Welcome Back, Fans!’ homecoming. The place looked like a sellout crowd at 1st. Fields & Dalton are 1-2 and they played the whole game. Trubisky outran Mack on a scramble. Both their lines were destroyed all game. Bears aren’t very good and their coach seems even worse. 
 

T’was a beat down.

Lions fans are in mourning as well 

[Chandler#81]

Of note -and not yet discussed/lost in the plethora of incredible plays yesterday, Johnson (#92) blocked an Extra Point leaping up in the middle of the line. There are and will be games where plays like this determine the outcome. 

 

[wjag]

Pop goes the weasel. 

[AmishRifle]

1 minute ago, wjag said:

Pop goes the weasel. 

I love that the head band is coming off too!

[MasterStrategist]

50 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Of note -and not yet discussed/lost in the plethora of incredible plays yesterday, Johnson (#92) blocked an Extra Point leaping up in the middle of the line. There are and will be games plays like this determine the outcome. 

 

I think Bills postgame gave Boogie credit for the block.

[Not at the table Karlos]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Rousseau only had 9 snaps. Jesus. 

[Chandler#81]

18 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I think Bills postgame gave Boogie credit for the block.

I could be wrong, it was very quick video, but I freeze framed it a few times. 92 is Johnson, right?

[MasterStrategist]

2 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I could be wrong, it was very quick video, but I freeze framed it a few times. 92 is Johnson, right?

Perhaps, I'm going off the Chris Brown post-game recap.

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/top-3-things-we-learned-from-bills-at-bears-preseason-week-2

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

Of note -and not yet discussed/lost in the plethora of incredible plays yesterday, Johnson (#92) blocked an Extra Point leaping up in the middle of the line. There are and will be games plays like this determine the outcome. 

 

 

My eyes have not seen so I can neither confirm nor deny, but NFL's scoring credits Boogie Basham (96) with the EP block

[wjag]

I’ll just drop this here. 
 

Buffalo Bills defensive end Efe Obada was fined $6,944 for a low hit on Lions quarterback Tim Boyle, per Pelissero.

 

sheesh.  

[Chandler#81]

1 minute ago, wjag said:

I’ll just drop this here. 
 

Buffalo Bills defensive end Efe Obada was fined $6,944 for a low hit on Lions quarterback Tim Boyle, per Pelissero.

 

sheesh.  

If that warranted $7K, knocking Fields’ helmet into Lake Michigan is gonna be huge!

[aristocrat]

3 minutes ago, wjag said:

I’ll just drop this here. 
 

Buffalo Bills defensive end Efe Obada was fined $6,944 for a low hit on Lions quarterback Tim Boyle, per Pelissero.

 

sheesh.  

69…nice

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

If it's enough to make such a negative impression, then it's too much. 

 

He hasn't even been a returner that often.

 

There's a saying that "perception is reality", but when a team makes personnel decisions, they need to look at actual reality.

 

Fans think that McKenzie lost his KR/PR job due to muffs.   It was probably more due to bad judgement about when to abort and when to run back.

 

The fact is that Roberts had 3 fumbles on KR/PR last season (61 KR/PR, 1 of them a muff), 3 during 2018 and 4 during 2017 with the Jets. 

 

Yet the overall impression I get is that fans are ready to canonize Saint Andre of the Sure Hands and vilify McKenzie, who is on the record with 2 fumbles (26 KR/PR, 1 of them a muff)

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to argue that we won't miss Andre' Roberts or that 1 in 20 is the same as 1 in 13 (it's not); my point is that

1) even the "All Pro" KR/PR fumbled some, perhaps more than his reputation in fans' minds would suggest

2) impressions/perceptions are not reality, even when we believe them to be reality.

 

 

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Could’ve sworn McKenzie had more muffed/fumbled KRs/PRs than that…. Thought he had two in one game in 2018…. Are those just lost fumbles/muffs or total muffs/fumbles regardless of which team recovered?

 

Total regardless of which team recovered.  McKenzie has not had 2 fumbles in one game with the Bills or in 2018.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Rousseau only had 9 snaps. Jesus. 

It seemed like he made 12 plays.  

[Shaw66]

35 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's a saying that "perception is reality", but when a team makes personnel decisions, they need to look at actual reality.

 

Fans think that McKenzie lost his KR/PR job due to muffs.   It was probably more due to bad judgement about when to abort and when to run back.

 

The fact is that Roberts had 3 fumbles on KR/PR last season (61 KR/PR, 1 of them a muff), 3 during 2018 and 4 during 2017 with the Jets. 

 

Yet the overall impression I get is that fans are ready to canonize Saint Andre of the Sure Hands and vilify McKenzie, who is on the record with 2 fumbles (26 KR/PR, 1 of them a muff)

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to argue that we won't miss Andre' Roberts or that 1 in 20 is the same as 1 in 13 (it's not); my point is that

1) even the "All Pro" KR/PR fumbled some, perhaps more than his reputation in fans' minds would suggest

2) impressions/perceptions are not reality, even when we believe them to be reality.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this.  Extrpolated, McKenzie has two more fumbles in a season.  Not good.  But it's a small samplen size, so it's certainly not conclusive. 

 

Roberts was better, but he is gone.  McKenzie gets the job.  He makes me nervous, in the same way Knox makes me nervous.  I just don't think theyre as good as they need to be.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks for this.  Extrpolated, McKenzie has two more fumbles in a season.  Not good.  But it's a small samplen size, so it's certainly not conclusive. 

 

Roberts was better, but he is gone.  McKenzie gets the job.  He makes me nervous, in the same way Knox makes me nervous.  I just don't think theyre as good as they need to be.  

 

I can't argue with that for either player.  McKenzie made me nervous in the Miami game.  Knox has me singing Cranberries ("What's in your Head?  In your Head?") but I try to have faith in the reports he has had a much better camp as far as route running and release and I have to remember that improvement at a physical/mental is not linear - there will be steps forward and steps back.

 

On the other hand, Roberts last year was not the "worry free ST ace" we needed him to be, either (IMO).

[gonzo1105]

57 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Could’ve sworn McKenzie had more muffed/fumbled KRs/PRs than that…. Thought he had two in one game in 2018…. Are those just lost fumbles/muffs or total muffs/fumbles regardless of which team recovered?

most of his muffs came in the preseason with Denver so they aren’t an official stat that’s why you think he has more but the stats don’t say that

[dpberr]

I am impressed with how crisp the Bills look in preseason.  Regardless of the string that is playing, the players look fast, in shape and committed.  The Bills collectively seemed to be a step quicker than the Bears all game.

[Rocky Landing]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Ya know, I posted a thread back in July positing that a Bills team comprised of its backup players would actually be competitive, and I was mostly flamed as a homer (which, admittedly, is true). But, I count a total of six starters on that list, with only three (Cody Ford- 44%, Mongo, and Dawkins- 31%) playing more than 30%. 

 

Defense especially (in which I was most heavily flamed) played exactly one starter- Ed Oliver, with six snaps. Our second, and third string D absolutely man-handled the Bears starting O. Bam Johnson was in the backfield all day. Epenesa just flattened their starting LT, and stepped over him like a doormat on his way to a sack on Dalton. Rousseau, utterly raw, was running around the backfield so fast with his long long frame, and they had no idea how to handle him. Two sacks in two games vs. starters for that rookie. In fact, our entire front seven (and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like we played a lot of 4-3 yesterday) looked complete. Pressured the QB, and handled the run all day.

 

On offense, our #4, and down WRs looked better than some other team's starting WR corps-- I will say: including the Jets, and Pats*. Yeah, it's preseason, I know. But, this team is deep.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

On the other hand, Roberts last year was not the "worry free ST ace" we needed him to be, either (IMO).

Yes, but he's a natural return man, second in the league in kickoff return average last season and tenth in punt returns.  Fifth and tenth the year before.  Second and second the year before that.   

 

We're all sorry he's gone, but Roberts is just history now.  All I know is I had a reasonable level of confidence in him back there, and I don't have same confidence in McKenzie.  That's okay - I'm not the coach, and I'm also not entitled to have everything I want.  

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Reports from camp have been that McKenzie has been waaAAAAaaayyy ahead of the other returners in terms of ball security.

 

 

No pressure in practice.  

 

He's the reserve slot WR on a team with an un-vaxed starting slot WR.........and he's on a cheap deal........he was never in any danger of not making the 53, IMO.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's a saying that "perception is reality", but when a team makes personnel decisions, they need to look at actual reality.

 

Fans think that McKenzie lost his KR/PR job due to muffs.   It was probably more due to bad judgement about when to abort and when to run back.

 

The fact is that Roberts had 3 fumbles on KR/PR last season (61 KR/PR, 1 of them a muff), 3 during 2018 and 4 during 2017 with the Jets. 

 

Yet the overall impression I get is that fans are ready to canonize Saint Andre of the Sure Hands and vilify McKenzie, who is on the record with 2 fumbles (26 KR/PR, 1 of them a muff)

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to argue that we won't miss Andre' Roberts or that 1 in 20 is the same as 1 in 13 (it's not); my point is that

1) even the "All Pro" KR/PR fumbled some, perhaps more than his reputation in fans' minds would suggest

2) impressions/perceptions are not reality, even when we believe them to be reality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The REALITY is that McKenzie was an absolute fumbling machine in Denver.........he's never really had much of a chance in Buffalo because the Bills and everyone else in the league knew about how serious the problem was.

 

Go back and watch his punt return TD vs Miami last year......bobbled the catch.  

 

Roberts wasn't perfect but the pace that McKenzie has been on in his career is more than a fumble every other game.

 

If you are an opposing team..........just kick it high and negate any return potential while increasing the likelihood of a muffed fair catch. 

 

It's tempting to put him back there because he is great at making people miss and fast enough to take it to the house,  so the Bills wanted to get a look at him there,  but I think so far it's not looking good. 

 

 

[NewEra]

12 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

He clearly is improving as a receiver.  But I don't care if he caught 100 punts in a row in practice. I don't trust him back there, and he gave me reason again today to distrust him. 

 

He is going to make the 53 and he is going to return punts. I will be reduced to praying.  And in the 4th quarter of close games I won't be surprised to see Hyde back there.  No good coach tolerates ball insecurity, and McDermott is a good coach.

Meanwhile our lord and savior has 31 fumbles in 44 games.

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks for this.  Extrpolated, McKenzie has two more fumbles in a season.  Not good.  But it's a small samplen size, so it's certainly not conclusive. 

 

Roberts was better, but he is gone.  McKenzie gets the job.  He makes me nervous, in the same way Knox makes me nervous.  I just don't think theyre as good as they need to be.  

Need to be in order to be considered good at their job?  Or good enough to help the Bills win the SB.  I think they’re good enough to help us win the Super Bowl.  Well……maybe not knox. Hopefully Hollister can progress as a blocker.  I’d much rather have him out there as our starter.  It’s my belief that Knox will always be part stone hands mcgee

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The REALITY is that McKenzie was an absolute fumbling machine in Denver.........he's never really had much of a chance in Buffalo because the Bills and everyone else in the league knew about how serious the problem was.

 

He was a fumbling machine in Denver, no question, but he was also a rookie, and sometimes that's a problem that can be coached.  From some stuff here and there, I don't think he got sound coaching on the fundamentals in Mile High Town.

 

He had a good chance in B'lo IMO in 2018 - but after 16 punts, a muff, and a fumble, the Bills pulled the plug, put Hyde back there, and signed Roberts in the offseason.  But it's worth noting that they did put McKenzie back in to return punts the last 3 games of 2018 with no muffs or other excitement.

 

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Go back and watch his punt return TD vs Miami last year......bobbled the catch.

 

He did.  I said elsewhere his Miami game scared me.  But again, practice, coaching.  The Miami move that concerned me more wasn't the bobble, it was a punt he correctly waved off, but remained in a position where the ball damn near hit him, while he was surrounded by defenders and would have had no chance at the ball.  I don't know if that's situational awareness that can be coached or not.

 

 

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Roberts wasn't perfect but the pace that McKenzie has been on in his career is more than a fumble every other game.

 

I don't follow this calculation.   I think what you did is to say he had 8 fumbles his first 2 years in the league, during which time he returned punts in 16 games.  But that would be nonsensical, because we all know there's an "aging curve" in Football as there is in Baseball, where a player's overall performance can not be predicted with any accuracy by extrapolating from their first year.  And the fact that he had 6 fumbles in 21 punt returns his first season, then 2 fumbles in 16 punt returns his second season, supports that general principle.  They aren't all muffs, either - one of the two in B'lo was ball security during a return that he's clearly been working on.

 

 

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

If you are an opposing team..........just kick it high and negate any return potential while increasing the likelihood of a muffed fair catch. 

 

It's tempting to put him back there because he is great at making people miss and fast enough to take it to the house,  so the Bills wanted to get a look at him there,  but I think so far it's not looking good.

 

It's not looking great, I grant that.  But there's no need for exaggeration either.

[buffaloboyinATL]

I was just watching NFL Total Access prior to the Giants-Browns game. Their take away was Justin Fields is awesome and the Bills took a cheap helmet to helmet shot at him. Their “highlights” started in the 3rd quarter with us up 41-6. Apparently we had no highlights worth showing prior to that.  

[Warcodered]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

If that warranted $7K, knocking Fields’ helmet into Lake Michigan is gonna be huge!

I mean if they're going to fine him he should at least get to keep the helmet.

[gomper]

3 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I was just watching NFL Total Access prior to the Giants-Browns game. Their take away was Justin Fields is awesome and the Bills took a cheap helmet to helmet shot at him. Their “highlights” started in the 3rd quarter with us up 41-6. Apparently we had no highlights worth showing prior to that.  

That's just negligent but you can't expect too much from NFLN. They've become an ESPN clone. That morning show? Please.  I know Kyle Brant loves the Bills but he's a clown. 

[LeGOATski]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's a saying that "perception is reality", but when a team makes personnel decisions, they need to look at actual reality.

 

Fans think that McKenzie lost his KR/PR job due to muffs.   It was probably more due to bad judgement about when to abort and when to run back.

 

The fact is that Roberts had 3 fumbles on KR/PR last season (61 KR/PR, 1 of them a muff), 3 during 2018 and 4 during 2017 with the Jets. 

 

Yet the overall impression I get is that fans are ready to canonize Saint Andre of the Sure Hands and vilify McKenzie, who is on the record with 2 fumbles (26 KR/PR, 1 of them a muff)

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to argue that we won't miss Andre' Roberts or that 1 in 20 is the same as 1 in 13 (it's not); my point is that

1) even the "All Pro" KR/PR fumbled some, perhaps more than his reputation in fans' minds would suggest

2) impressions/perceptions are not reality, even when we believe them to be reality.

 

 

 

 

 

Seems to be reality to me. McKenzie is obviously worse based on your numbers and his return style is more boom or bust.

 

Hyde is the one with the sure hands reputation, not Roberts.