PostGame Thread Bills @ Bears

[YoloinOhio]

My offensive MVP: Spencer Brown 

my defensive MVP: AJ Epenesa 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Shaw.  Yes, can’t muff punts.  

 

But how many has he actually dropped?  I think you need to look it up yourself

 

 

If it's enough to make such a negative impression, then it's too much. 

 

He hasn't even been a returner that often.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It was the reason he was cut before joining the Bills.... he’s an adventure at PR.... I can’t see him sticking there. They’ll get someone else to do the job, IMO. That’s the type of ***** that really gets under McDs skin. 

Agreed. He has poor instincts on the catch. Even some of his best returns have been near bobbles.  Sort of weird, because he otherwise has good hands as a receiver. 
 

I’d rather McKenzie be a WR and a backup returner to use in a jam. That said, I’m not super excited about a rookie like Stevenson being the main guy either. 

[clayboy54]

My opinion is that we are a week away from the end of the Duke Williams experiment. Nice story, not good enough for this Bills team.

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, clayboy54 said:

My opinion is that we are a week away from the end of the Duke Williams experiment. Nice story, not good enough for this Bills team.

Yeah.  I wanted it to work, but he hasn't produced.   Had another chance today.   He was billed as having great hands, but he couldn't pull in one today.   This offense is about possession, long drives, efficiency, etc.   That means receivers catch the ball.  Duke hasn't shown he can do that consistently.   No room for him. 

[TPS]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah.  I wanted it to work, but he hasn't produced.   Had another chance today.   He was billed as having great hands, but he couldn't pull in one today.   This offense is about possession, long drives, efficiency, etc.   That means receivers catch the ball.  Duke hasn't shown he can do that consistently.   No room for him. 

Few expect him to make the team, but he would be great to keep on the PS because of his familiarity with the offense if there are injuries.

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, TPS said:

Few expect him to make the team, but he would be great to keep on the PS because of his familiarity with the offense if there are injuries.

Hodgins, McKenzie, Stevenson, Kumerow all are clearly ahead of him.  Maybe even Lenoir.  Hard to imagine that they're keeping Duke, too.  This team is about building continuously for the future.  Duke's not the future.  

[Bronxbomber21]

We have some good looking rookies in Groot , Basham & Stevenson today. 

When was the last time we had a backup QB that could make a throw like that TD pass....

59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

[TPS]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Hodgins, McKenzie, Stevenson, Kumerow all are clearly ahead of him.  Maybe even Lenoir.  Hard to imagine that they're keeping Duke, too.  This team is about building continuously for the future.  Duke's not the future.  

I agree, but...two of those guys will be on the roster, and the other two might be injured.  All I'm saying is there still might be a place for him on the PS this year.

[Dopey]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

We saw today our depth. There will be some good players cut. I think Kumerow and Stevenson made the team. Devin looks much improved over last year. Too bad we probably can't convince Mitch to stick around. Our new DE's are fun to watch. Hollister should be TE1. 

Yeah, Mitch isn't sticking around long. He's following Daboll, wherever he goes. Could turn out to be a shrewd move by Mitch and his agent.

[Pasaluki]

The Bills look so good right now. Cuts are going to be hard and 31 other teams are going to be watching for their WR cuts. 

[Dopey]

31 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

My opinion is that we are a week away from the end of the Duke Williams experiment. Nice story, not good enough for this Bills team.

I might be the happiest on this board if this happens. I don't see how he gets another chance. We are too deep with better wrs. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Coastie]

10 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Yeah, Mitch isn't sticking around long. He's following Daboll, wherever he goes. Could turn out to be a shrewd move by Mitch and his agent.

I agree, one of those wish them the best but hope to not see them in three years.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

He hasn't even been a returner that often.

 

And despite that he took one to the house last year in his limited opportunities.

 

But what I'm most impressed with McKenzie is how he has totally developed into what looks to be a legitimate #2 receiving threat after mostly just being a gadget player.  Maybe not on this team because of how deep we are but the guy has really improved. 7 catches today in one half alone. And he had I think 2 receiving TD's week 17 against Miami. 

[Andy1]

53 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Agreed. He has poor instincts on the catch. Even some of his best returns have been near bobbles.  Sort of weird, because he otherwise has good hands as a receiver. 
 

I’d rather McKenzie be a WR and a backup returner to use in a jam. That said, I’m not super excited about a rookie like Stevenson being the main guy either. 

I was listening to Tasker speak a while ago and his point was that it is very hard to be a good receiver and a good returner. Devin Hester at his best was strictly a returner. When he began playing receiver, his return skills declined. Your mind has to be in one place, not two. I’m not sure what the solution is, but McKenzie does look much improved as a receiver. Looks like he has been taking lessons from Beasley. 

[Coastie]

Since I have Travis Kelsey in our dynasty league, I tipped off my brother to take Hollister with his last pick. Told him if he didn't, I would.

[Dopey]

Watching the grandkids today, so I'm just parking my butt in the recliner and watch on DVR. Guess I'll keep an eye on #50.

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

And despite that he took one to the house last year in his limited opportunities.

 

But what I'm most impressed with McKenzie is how he has totally developed into what looks to be a legitimate #2 receiving threat after mostly just being a gadget player.  Maybe not on this team because of how deep we are but the guy has really improved. 7 catches today in one half alone. And he had I think 2 receiving TD's week 17 against Miami. 

That's nice. And Stevenson took one to the house today, too.

 

The Bills offense is gonna score points regardless. I prioritize not muffing punts over a possible return TD. Turnovers lose games.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

That's nice. And Stevenson took one to the house today, too.

 

The Bills offense is gonna score points regardless. I prioritize not muffing punts over a possible return TD. Turnovers lose games.

 

I agree. But I can't recall how many he has muffed besides this one. Shaw says several but this is the first one I know of.

 

Bottom line is that at this point McKenzie has more value to this team as a receiver than as a punt returner from what I saw of him today. But if he is the only guy available on game days to return punts then let's not complain about a muff when nobody else is seemingly able to handle the duties. Assuming Stephens makes the 53, I still don't see him dressing on game days over Kumerow. We could always play it ultra conservative and put Micah Hyde back there to fair catch them. I think he has played the conservative punt catcher role for us in the past. 

[Coastie]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I agree. But I can't recall how many he has muffed besides this one. Shaw says several but this is the first one I know of.

 

Bottom line is that at this point McKenzie has more value to this team as a receiver than as a punt returner from what I saw of him today. But if he is the only guy available on game days to return punts then let's not complain about a muff when nobody else is seemingly able to handle the duties. Assuming Stephens makes the 53, I still don't see him dressing on game days over Kumerow. We could always play it ultra conservative and put Micah Hyde back there to fair catch them. I think he has played the conservative punt catcher role for us in the past. 

I was hoping it will turn out Mackenzie WR5, KR2, Stevenson WR6, KR1 but my knowledge is based its on about six plays so it is nothing more than opium dreams most likely.

[Stank_Nasty]

I havnt gotten to watch today’s game yet with a bunch of summer festivities going on. I know we sat basically all our heavy hitters. Did our backups do all that damage vs the bears starters or were they missing quite a few pieces as well? 
 

Like was rousseaus sack play against the starter? AJ’s? Were the bears starting db’s in at all? 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, Coastie said:

I was hoping it will turn out Mackenzie WR5, KR2, Stevenson WR6, KR1 but my knowledge is based its on about six plays so it is nothing more than opium dreams most likely.

 

For him to be WR# 6 that means you have him ahead of Kumrowe? I'm not sure I see that happening. Kumrowe is becoming a better receiver himself and is also the tallest receiver on our roster. I'd love to keep Stevenson but all depends on if they can keep 7 WRs and go with less depth at another positional group. I heard he was inured today so perhaps that could help in delaying the decision on him.

[Philo]

6 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I havnt gotten to watch today’s game yet with a bunch of summer festivities going on. I know we sat basically all our heavy hitters. Did our backups do all that damage vs the bears starters or were they missing quite a few pieces as well? 
 

Like was rousseaus sack play against the starter? AJ’s? Were the bears starting db’s in at all? 

 

I missed the first half though I saw a clip of AJ's sack, which was ridiculous btw, and am fairly certain it was against the starting LT for Chicago. Didn't catch a highlight of any of Groot's plays, but I would think he was up against starters as well.

 

Overall it seemed Chicago played more starters than Buffalo did.

[transplantbillsfan]

7 hours ago, Aaronthebaron said:

Hollister has some wheels, Trubisky was excellent. Some excellent D lineman are gonna get cut. Anyone else catch Zimmer chase down the receiver on the bubble screen?

Another average showing by Brieda, other than the almost touchdown. 

 

Zimmer also almost caught Fields on a scramble. I was actually pretty upset when he was on the ground for an injury and stoked when he was back in there!

 

Since Allen signed the new contract, Star isn't long for the team and it would be really helpful if Horrible Harry and Zimmer took big steps forward this year.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I don't promote these hits but the Bills smell blood this season. There's a difference in attitude. Also how come the entire Bears offense didn't jump on Smith? I'de cut all of them tomorrow. 

 

 

 

Honestly... what the hell is Smith supposed to do there? Such a tough situation running at a QB who's crouching. Y`know you can't go too low because hitting him in the knees is also a penalty and QBs league wide I'm sure would tell you they'd rather get hit the way Smith hit him than at the knees.

 

To me that flag should have been thrown on Fields:

 

15 yards for Extreme Negligence and Lack of Awareness 

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

My biggest negative:  McKenzie.  Bills simply cannot afford to have a guy mishandle punts.   He's been dropping them since he arrived in Buffalo.   Every season he's looked better and better at receiver, and today he was solid there.   Doesn't matter.  Can't muff punts.  

 

I put that in my negatives, too. I think best case scenario for us is that Stevenson gets IRed because McKenzie is a lock at this point because of how dynamic he is. 

 

Truthfully, I had some longterm hopes that he could replace Beasley in the slot, but his ball security issues are an issue.

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Honestly... what the hell is Smith supposed to do there? Such a tough situation running at a QB who's crouching. Y`know you can't go too low because hitting him in the knees is also a penalty and QBs league wide I'm sure would tell you they'd rather get hit the way Smith hit him than at the knees.

 

To me that flag should have been thrown on Fields:

 

15 yards for Extreme Negligence and Lack of Awareness 

 

I put that in my negatives, too. I think best case scenario for us is that Stevenson gets IRed because McKenzie is a lock at this point because of how dynamic he is. 

 

Truthfully, I had some longterm hopes that he could replace Beasley in the slot, but his ball security issues are an issue.

Not to mention Fields had been running around on us and didn't want to miss.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Turnovers is the number one factor in NFL losses.   You turn it over, you lose.  Muff a punt, that's a 40-yard play for the opponent, and you put the defense back on the field.   Simply can't afford it.  It's one of the reasons Roberts is so good.   He's really sure-handed.  McKenzie never has been.   

 

McKenzie apparently spent the off-season catching punts.  Looks like it didn't help.  

 

 

Shaw, the truth is, this is too harsh.

 

All reports from camp have been that McKenzie has been exponentially better at fielding kickoffs and punts than his competition. We just saw a muffed punt live on TV.

 

And I say that for myself, too. Because I thought out of Kumerow's 4 targets, he dropped 2. That quick crosser was pretty brutal.

 

But I still think he's a lock because of all reports from camp saying he essentially catches everything.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  And Moss may be better than both.  Moss punishes people.   He needs a little bigger hole than Singletary, but he finishes well.  And actually, Devin finishes pretty well, too.  They're both good at getting the extra yard when he needs it. 

 

Also disagree at this point... at least based on preseason.

 

Singletary looks like a new RB. He’s looked good the last 2 weeks against most of the starters. He’s fast, decisive and deceptively powerful. I was disappointed with any other RB on the field... other than Gilliam.

[Warcodered]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Also disagree at this point... at least based on preseason.

 

Singletary looks like a new RB. He’s looked good the last 2 weeks against most of the starters. He’s fast, decisive and deceptively powerful. I was disappointed with any other RB on the field... other than Gilliam.

Guy had him dead to rights behind the line of scrimmage and Singletary made the guy look silly.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I can't recall how many he has muffed besides this one. Shaw says several but this is the first one I know of.

 

 

 

McKenzie had 6 fumbles in the return game as a rookie with Denver.

 

He had fumble problems again in the preseason before his second season and that got him cut.

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

They won’t.  Next week will determine whether we place State Fromm on the PS, and cut Webb or reverse.  I hope we keep Webb and let From. Figure out his next move.  Remember Webb was a 3rd round pick in 2017 to Fromm’s 5th.  I see more value in retaining Webb for insurance, and his coach on the field stuff.  
 

I’ve said it the interesting for me is in total we keep 10 guys for WR/TE.  We’ll see how it splits out.  I think we only keep 3 RB’s (not counting Jones), and maybe Williams makes it on the PS.

 

The problem is we can't just easily choose who goes on the PS. We have to cut down to 53... meaning cut all the guys you hope to get on the PS. Other teams can claim those players for 24 hours. Once they clear that 24 hours, it's their choice where they want to sign.

 

I don't care if either Webb or Fromme gets signed. I prefer Webb, but I am fine with Fromme on the PS.

 

I'm more worried about keeping certain players like Stevenson or Hodgins as the team clearly likes them but they just aren't there yet.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

McKenzie had 6 fumbles in the return game as a rookie with Denver.

 

He had fumble problems again in the preseason before his second season and that got him cut.

 

 

 

Good to know. 

 

I say go with McKenzie to start the season but if he starts coughing it up then switch to Hyde or something. But I won't be blasting McKenzie for fumbles assuming he is playing a prominent role as a receiver. But if he is basically just a return guy then yeah blast away. That is why I never really liked blasting McKevlin for his mishaps. Dude was also our #1 CB most years. His kick returning was just a side job that the coaches felt nobody else was capable of handling. 

[Shaw66]

19 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Shaw, the truth is, this is too harsh.

 

All reports from camp have been that McKenzie has been exponentially better at fielding kickoffs and punts than his competition. We just saw a muffed punt live on TV.

 

And I say that for myself, too. Because I thought out of Kumerow's 4 targets, he dropped 2. That quick crosser was pretty brutal.

 

But I still think he's a lock because of all reports from camp saying he essentially catches everything.

He clearly is improving as a receiver.  But I don't care if he caught 100 punts in a row in practice. I don't trust him back there, and he gave me reason again today to distrust him. 

 

He is going to make the 53 and he is going to return punts. I will be reduced to praying.  And in the 4th quarter of close games I won't be surprised to see Hyde back there.  No good coach tolerates ball insecurity, and McDermott is a good coach.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

I'm more worried about keeping certain players like Stevenson or Hodgins as the team clearly likes them but they just aren't there yet.

 

Given Sanders and Beasley's ages we also just want guys like that for depth. Either one of those guys goes down and McKenzie pretty much becomes an every down WR in this offense and we could call up Stevenson, Hodgins or Powell. 

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

He clearly is improving as a receiver.  But I don't care if he caught 100 punts in a row in practice. I don't trust him back there, and he gave me reason again today to distrust him. 

 

He is going to make the 53 and he is going to return punts. I will be reduced to praying.  And in the 4th quarter of close games I won't be surprised to see Hyde back there.  No good coach tolerates ball insecurity, and McDermott is a good coach.

Good coaches also help build confidence in developing players and if McKenzie starts showing some consistency as the season goes on I'd expect McDermott to trust him more.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

That's nice. And Stevenson took one to the house today, too.

 

The Bills offense is gonna score points regardless. I prioritize not muffing punts over a possible return TD. Turnovers lose games.

 

Reports from camp have been that McKenzie has been waaAAAAaaayyy ahead of the other returners in terms of ball security.

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Good to know. 

 

I say go with McKenzie to start the season but if he starts coughing it up then switch to Hyde or something. But I won't be blasting McKenzie for fumbles assuming he is playing a prominent role as a receiver. But if he is basically just a return guy then yeah blast away. That is why I never really liked blasting McKevlin for his mishaps. Dude was also our #1 CB most years. His kick returning was just a side job that the coaches felt nobody else was capable of handling. 

 

 

6 fumbles in 11 games is a total sh*tshow in the return game............I was hoping maybe some separation from that horrible run in Denver would help but that fumble today was ridiculous......it was a fair catch, plenty of time to settle under it and cradle it in and instead it exploded off his pads............it's in his head, IMO.

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Honestly... what the hell is Smith supposed to do there? Such a tough situation running at a QB who's crouching. Y`know you can't go too low because hitting him in the knees is also a penalty and QBs league wide I'm sure would tell you they'd rather get hit the way Smith hit him than at the knees.

 

To me that flag should have been thrown on Fields:

 

15 yards for Extreme Negligence and Lack of Awareness 

 

I put that in my negatives, too. I think best case scenario for us is that Stevenson gets IRed because McKenzie is a lock at this point because of how dynamic he is. 

 

Truthfully, I had some longterm hopes that he could replace Beasley in the slot, but his ball security issues are an issue.

Yeh he just got a welcome to the NFL kid hit it was clean as it clearly looks like Smith was aiming for the shoulder plate…the only ones mad seem to be Pats and Chiefs on twitter 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

That's nice. And Stevenson took one to the house today, too.

 

The Bills offense is gonna score points regardless. I prioritize not muffing punts over a possible return TD. Turnovers lose games.

Apparently Stevenson has been fumbling a lot of punts in practice though.