Bills opening stadium discussions with NYS and Erie County

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The top of the current stadium is low. Could they just put a roof over the current?

[DrDawkinstein]

Put it downtown.

 

Make it a dome so it can be used as a Convention Center offseason.

 

Tie in a couple hotels, and a bunch of bars and restaurants. That way I can fly up for a game and never leave "the compound" all weekend.

 

Boom, into the 21st century.

[LABILLBACKER]

11 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Whatever keeps the team in Buffalo.  I'd prefer a dome right next to where the stadium is now (preserves tailgating) as I've become less weather tolerant over the years.  Plus, I prefer optimal weather in every game so the more talented team that executes the best wins.  Something tells me they'll go with the cheapest option though and renovate the current stadium like they did Lambeau and Arrowhead. 

That's what should happen. Build a reasonable 1.5B dome on the existing site and leave the parking/tailgate areas in tack.  They don't need a 5B spaceship like SOFI.....

Edited March 31, 2021 by LABILLBACKER

[May Day 10]

I would prefer renovating the current stadium.  I love the sightlines and I believe the NFL experience there is truly unique and it is a draw for fans of other teams.  We have history there.  I like the elements.  I love Bills games, they are hopefully going to remain competitive and game experience will be that much better.  I am proud of what we have and every year that is preserved it will be more and more special and more of an attraction.

 

Second choice is an outdoor stadium with more of a roof in an adjacent parking lot in OP.

 

Third choice would be the outdoor stadium with roof downtown.

 

Fourth choice is an indoor stadium but with an open-air feel to it with natural light and a unique setup (that would be downtown no matter what IMO)

 

Last choice would be a Ford Field style sterile indoor where it feels like the games are played in about 80% light and every single game looks the same, devoid of atmosphere.

 

I dont think retractable is a realistic possibility for the cost and the climate. 

Edited March 31, 2021 by May Day 10

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

I dont think retractable is a realistic possibility for the cost and the climate. 

 

Yep, retractable would be highly unlikely, and if they did do it, would only be open for the September games. Not in the winter which fans fantasize about.

 

They cant move those roofs in any type of weather. Certainly not in a lake effect storm.

[LabattBlue]

Oh my...how did WNY ever survive the price increases when the Bills moved from the Rockpile to Rich or when the Sabres moved from the Aud?

 

Prices increase on all products....and people continue to buy them.  Some people need to stop acting like everyone will turn their backs on the Bills when they move to a new stadium. 

[billsfan_34]

Amazing what 26 billion dollars starts.

12 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Build new. 65,000 seat dome. Location will be the question. 

 

There is literally no point to renovate. It's a waste of time and money. Build new or leave it alone.

Renovations at thIs point may be futile for a number of reasons. In 5 years we will end up renovating again. If my memory serves correctly, we have sunk around 400 mil into 2 renovations and another 530 mil now? That just does not make sense but hey, we wont have a say anyways.

[Boxcar]

I think the location is pretty cool. I'd like a retractable dome with natural grass, though.

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Boxcar

[Logic]

57 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Where exactly in OP do you want it? 

.......The post you quoted literally says where I want it.

[Locomark]

21 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Amazing what 26 billion dollars starts.

Renovations at thIs point may be futile for a number of reasons. In 5 years we will end up renovating again. If my memory serves correctly, we have sunk around 400 mil into 2 renovations and another 530 mil now? That just does not make sense but hey, we wont have a say anyways.

This is the key point. You end up sinking 500 mil into Renos every 5 years and instead of a new stadium you will have spent the same cost in 10 years and gotten the same old stadium with pretty new signage and bigger concourses. Just stupid. Rebuild it already. 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Locomark

[Augie]

5 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Just build the Downtown Dome and be done with this already. It really isn’t that hard. 

 

I love the stadium where it is, the way it is. However, when it gets to the point that my car needs repairs that amount to roughly half the cost of a new car, I get a new car. 

[PrimeTime101]

49 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

Just my opinion based on a set of market realities; revenue outside football won't be meaningful, or very relevant to what the PSL or ticket prices will be.    new stadium, new pricing.  simple as that. 

 

MLB isn't coming and really big events likely will not generate meaningful revenue from such a small market , plus wrecking the football sightlines with a multi sport stadium won't happen. 

 

A $billion stadium cannot possibly be a smart investment.   Go the Lambeau route, just make what's there better.   Keep the vibe, its what makes the fan/player/community experience what it is.  

even if Bills numbers are half of that, it is insanely expensive for 3/4 of the seats.. and I am sure all kinds of other events are held in the meadowlands to "offset" the costs (haha)

you said it. Opinion. but your saying it like its fact.. MLB was just an example and you say it isn't wont or never will is crystal ball work. Small market has 0 to do with it. ITs about filling seats.. you bring a big name to buffalo and he will fill 62k seats in a domed stadium. There is only so many upgrades you can make to this stadium before you run out of things you can do. Big names come to domed stadiums. Its just fact. 

52 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Not afraid of change but assuming you’re talking to others.  My points are what I expect.  Might as well deal with it.  The powers will want a shiny new revenue stream.  For those that hate it, at least you know we are here for as long as the Pegulas own the team.

 

Downside, get ready to pay a lot more, and maybe you go to a couple of games vs. seasons for the regular guy.  They know Buffalo’s market can’t afford Philly, Chicago type prices, but it’s going to go up dramatically.

you said it though and I applaud you for understand it. and again... I respect where your coming from.. just 2 different beliefs. 

18 minutes ago, Logic said:

.......The post you quoted literally says where I want it.

WHERE in orchard park do you want it?

[Southtown Tommy]

Build a world class aquarium while you are at it....cannot understand how sad the Falls aquarium is....

[dwight in philly]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Arrowhead, and Lambeau Field, are doing just fine.

Been my feeling .. upgrade.. keep the ambience .., and while not as "historic" as Lambeau, has some history.. Greatest comeback.. snow games, which viewers seem to enjoy.. why mess with it? Dome stadiums suck IMHO.. 

[Logic]

11 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

WHERE in orchard park do you want it?

Once again: I already said where I want it. 
 

Follow the “build it on the site of the current stadium parking lot, and turn the current stadium site into the new parking lot” model, if possible.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Logic

[BuffaloBill]

13 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Build new. 65,000 seat dome. Location will be the question. 

 

There is literally no point to renovate. It's a waste of time and money. Build new or leave it alone.

 

 

Depends on the extent of the renovations. If the Bills go dome-less it makes absolutely no sense to completely rebuild.  The sight lines in /Rich/ Ralph/ New Era/ Bills/ Highmark are outstanding. 

 

 

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Put it downtown.

 

Make it a dome so it can be used as a Convention Center offseason.

 

Tie in a couple hotels, and a bunch of bars and restaurants. That way I can fly up for a game and never leave "the compound" all weekend.

 

Boom, into the 21st century.

 

I hate the idea of a downtown stadium - if you lose tailgating you lose the essence of Mafia dom

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

I hate the idea of a downtown stadium - if you lose tailgating you lose the essence of Mafia dom

 

Ehh, to me, the real essence of Mafia-dom happens inside the stadium when we bring one of the most raucous environments for an opposing team to play in.

 

The "tailgating" we are now (in)famous for is just buffoonery that was added to make the games entertaining since the product on the field was so bad for so long. You can keep the "I had my first beer today" frat party. We can go back to the tailgating that was around back in the 80s-90s when it was centered around some good food before a good game.

[PrimeTime101]

20 minutes ago, Logic said:

Once again: I already said where I want it. 
 

Follow the “build it on the site of the current stadium parking lot, and turn the current stadium site into the new parking lot” model, if possible.

so new building old building next to each other, where they going to park?

[May Day 10]

What the city could use is a real brick and mortar amphitheater downtown.  That could bring a lot of people down there multiple times a week during the Summer months.  

[Kelsayrundefense]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Put it downtown.

 

Make it a dome so it can be used as a Convention Center offseason.

 

Tie in a couple hotels, and a bunch of bars and restaurants. That way I can fly up for a game and never leave "the compound" all weekend.

 

Boom, into the 21st century.

Yes the vaunted convention center idea.  So many people are looking to skip Las Vegas, Orlando and Chicago and come to Buffalo. 

[BillnutinHouston]

2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

We almost had a MLB team come here but not enough seats. 

 

This isn't a serious point, is it? 

 

Lack of seating at the former Pilot Field was NOT the reason we didn't get a major league team, Bob Rich and our bad demographics were the reasons.

 

You do know that the baseball stadium was built to support an eventual upper deck, right?

Edited March 31, 2021 by BillnutinHouston

[DrDawkinstein]

15 minutes ago, Kelsayrundefense said:

Yes the vaunted convention center idea.  So many people are looking to skip Las Vegas, Orlando and Chicago and come to Buffalo. 

 

No one is saying they'll pack it with conventions. But having the option and the ability to generate any revenue outside of merely 10 days a year is smarter than not having it.

 

With Buffalo's central location to so much of the NE population, they certainly could try to rope in a couple of different events. Better than none.

[Malazan]

12 hours ago, Logic said:

If they're going to build a new stadium, I hope it stays in Orchard Park.

I can't remember which team's new stadium it was (Pittsburgh? Houston?), but they just built it on what used to be the parking lot of the old stadium, and turned the site of the old stadium into the new parking lot.

I'm all for whatever it takes to keep the Bills in Buffalo long term, but game days sure would lose a lot of their charm and what makes them special if the stadium left Orchard Park for downtown Buffalo. Having been to away games in city centers, I can say that the Bills game day experience is much, much, MUCH more fun and unique and special. 

Keep the Bills in Orchard Park.

 

Exactly. My concern with the downtown thing is that what gets talked about is what it would do for downtown, not what it would do for the experience at the stadium. I think there's benefits and detractions to the game experience by being downtown, but they've never seemed like a major concern when a downtown stadium is talked about. 

 

There's also that looming question of, is it really that great to have a massive plot of land that doesn't do anything for the vast majority of the year in the middle of a city?

[BillnutinHouston]

40 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ehh, to me, the real essence of Mafia-dom happens inside the stadium when we bring one of the most raucous environments for an opposing team to play in.

 

The "tailgating" we are now (in)famous for is just buffoonery that was added to make the games entertaining since the product on the field was so bad for so long. You can keep the "I had my first beer today" frat party. We can go back to the tailgating that was around back in the 80s-90s when it was centered around some good food before a good game.

 

Very well put.  Thanks for putting "tailgating" in its proper perspective.

[PrimeTime101]

13 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

This isn't a serious point, is it? 

 

Lack of seating at the former Pilot Field was NOT the reason we didn't get a major league team, Bob Rich and our bad demographics were the reasons.

 

You do know that the baseball stadium was built to support an eventual upper deck, right?

They specifically said when they chose a different location that lack of seating had a play in it. I didn't say it was the main reason but It had a play in why they didn't come.

[BillnutinHouston]

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

They specifically said when they chose a different location that lack of seating had a play in it. I didn't say it was the main reason but It had a play in why they didn't come.

 

Link?  While my memory differs from yours about what explanations were given, what you are asserting would have been an incredibly shallow and disingenuous explanation, given that it was well known to the public and more importantly to decision makers that the stadium was designed to be expandable.

[billsfan_34]

1 hour ago, Locomark said:

This is the key point. You end up sinking 500 mil into Renos every 5 years and instead of a new stadium you will have spent the same cost in 10 years and gotten the same old stadium with pretty new signage and bigger concourses. Just stupid. Rebuild it already. 

Exactly!!!! It’s frustrating to see the wasteful spending.

[Special K]

Give me one of these please:

 

[nucci]

24 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

They specifically said when they chose a different location that lack of seating had a play in it. I didn't say it was the main reason but It had a play in why they didn't come.

I disagree. The stadium was built knowing it could be expanded to major league size if we got a team

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

What the city could use is a real brick and mortar amphitheater downtown.  That could bring a lot of people down there multiple times a week during the Summer months.  

This would be great, and there is plenty of land on the outer harbor(just a stones throw from downtown), but the powers that be along with some misguided public input, insist that ALL OF IT becomes park land.  😡

53 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said:

Lack of seating at the former Pilot Field was NOT the reason we didn't get a major league team. Bob Rich and our bad demographics were was the reason.

 

You do know that the baseball stadium was built to support an eventual upper deck, right?

I fixed your post.  I'll never forget Bob Rich waving a blank check around(in front of the media) at an owners meeting...when it was still a possibility.

Edited March 31, 2021 by BTB

[nucci]

7 minutes ago, BTB said:

This would be great, and there is plenty of land on the outer harbor(just a stones throw from downtown), but the powers that be along with some misguided public input, insist that ALL OF IT becomes park land.  😡

I fixed your post.  I'll never forget Bob Rich waving a blank check around(in front of the media) at an owners meeting...when it was still a possibility.

until he found out how much it would cost

[scuba guy]

6 hours ago, teef said:

did your taxes just get adjusted to what you bought the house for?

Well I think that means you leave in New York won't get political  well get yelled at.

But last time I checked we are the highest in the country. And where I live we are the highest in upstate NY $33 per $1000.

 

So the school kids thank you.

 

FYI my cottage in the 1000 island is seasonal use with a discount av240k taxes are still $6400.

 

Condo in the keys av445k taxes are $1100

 

Just saying 

Maybe chandler can build an addition and we can stay with him at his place

24 minutes ago, Special K said:

Give me one of these please:

 

Can we build it that fast also

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

What the city could use is a real brick and mortar amphitheater downtown.  That could bring a lot of people down there multiple times a week during the Summer months.  

That would be a nice, I’d love a small scale amphitheater that attracts smaller shows though. There’s just too much competition in NYS for the big shows with all these 10-20K outdoor amphitheaters, especially with the control Live Nation has. I think the future of music is going to be more centered around these smaller venues. Just give me some good music in downtown Buffalo on those nice summer days, and I’m happy. It wouldn’t even need to attract huge acts. 

[MAJBobby]

4 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

Without tailgating, a significant fraction of today's audience will not attend.  Downtown is a loosing idea except for the social engineering folks.

Tailgating as you know it will go away with new Stadium anyway. Downtown Dome Stadium makes the most financial sense 

[BillStime]

5 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Just copy and paste Lucas Oil stadium in downtown Buffalo. 

 

Totally disagree about Lucas Oil. We already have enough historical (and decaying) warehouses in Buffalo.  Why Disney it up with fake architecture like that when we should go modern. Do something that stands out and is dynamic.  I cringe every time I see Lucas Oil Stadium.

 

 

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

Without tailgating, a significant fraction of today's audience will not attend.  Downtown is a loosing idea except for the social engineering folks.

 

They'll be there. You'll be there. Everyone will be there. And those that dont go, wont be missed. Plenty of folks waiting to take their spots, especially with a winning team. No one is concerned with the Tailgate Die Hards, nor should they be.

[teef]

32 minutes ago, scuba guy said:

Well I think that means you leave in New York won't get political  well get yelled at.

But last time I checked we are the highest in the country. And where I live we are the highest in upstate NY $33 per $1000.

 

So the school kids thank you.

 

FYI my cottage in the 1000 island is seasonal use with a discount av240k taxes are still $6400.

 

Condo in the keys av445k taxes are $1100

 

Just saying 

Maybe chandler can build an addition and we can stay with him at his place

 

you're preaching to the choir.   i also live in monroe county, (i think we're the second in the state), the family has a place in sackets harbor, and i have a building in ontario county.  it's gross.  soon i'll be paying tax on 3 places in NY.  

 

i was more just wondering why your taxes went up so much.  i just assumed you they were adjusted to your purchase price.  

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

Link?  While my memory differs from yours about what explanations were given, what you are asserting would have been an incredibly shallow and disingenuous explanation, given that it was well known to the public and more importantly to decision makers that the stadium was designed to be expandable.

Ok I don't need to explain it to you. I am going by my memory and what I remember was said back then.. and thats that. Lets get back on topic shall wel?

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, nucci said:

I disagree. The stadium was built knowing it could be expanded to major league size if we got a team

yep. You said it. They would have to expand to major league size right? from 20k seats to 45 k seats. There you have it. Do you know the cost of doing that? The difference I am trying to tell you is It would already be set up size wise for MLB. Thats all I am saying. Was Location and not big market place part of it or even most of it? Yes.. But seating had a role. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

No one is saying they'll pack it with conventions. But having the option and the ability to generate any revenue outside of merely 10 days a year is smarter than not having it.

 

With Buffalo's central location to so much of the NE population, they certainly could try to rope in a couple of different events. Better than none.

 

The "build new convention centers" call form some reason won't die.  This topic has been put to rest countless times, one would think.  This country is flooded with convention space.  Buffalo has plenty  (and isn't fully booked).  

 

Pegula can pay for whatever stadium he can image.  Let's leave the state's taxpayers out of this.