NewEra Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Don't project disagreement and concrete examples into "act like my answer is ridiculous", K? Every player in the league gets paid based on previous production. One could equally say to you, don't act like it's ridiculous to think a team won't pay Brown his current salary or more if he's cut. You're claiming "I don’t see him getting 8-9 mill with pandemic plagued salary cap offseason." I'm pointing out that too much is made of this as a lot of teams still have ample cap space available. Could you give some example of these "many football players in the past" who have taken less money to stay where they want to play? Because, as Spotrac pointed out, 99% of renegotiations do not involve a paycut. I pointed that out......it was one of multiple reasons why I felt that way. That’s how I feel about the situation. If he doesn’t take a pay cut, he won’t be a Buffalo Bill. Do you disagree? I’m not saying that se will take a pay cut. I’m saying that, looking at our cap situation, he’s not worth 9M to this team. Beane should ask him to take a pay cut......if he says no, he should be cut. I stated the reasons why I thought he might agree to a pay cut. regarding another team will pay him 9M or more....let’s wait and see. No use going back and forth about it. I don’t think he’ll get that much based on the reasons I’ve already stated I was out an about with my wife......just got home. Examples of players taking less to play for the team they want to play for. John brown is on a championship caliber team that qualifies as a team players would go to chase a ring. The majority of ring chasers in every sport are examples players taking discounts. There are many. Ndamukng suh did this past season. Tom Brady, Ray Lewis, Peyton manning, Pat Tillman, Marques Colston, Keenan Lewis, Teddy bruschi, Tony Romo, Keith Brooking, Deangelo hall, John Elway, Jerome Bettis. I could go on. There are several in the nba, and nhl- lebron, wade, bosh, curry, Duncan, Dirk, shaq, David west, klay, draymond, Mike bibby, Kirelinko, udonis haslem, Dwight Howard. Jr Smith, dion waiters. I could go on. Gretzky Tavares, kovalchuk, lidstrom, yzerman, Richards, Crosby, selanne, Iginla, kariya. I could go on. Again.....I don’t expect this to happen John brown....but It does happen and it could happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 I’d be shocked if Brown gets anywhere near $9m per year if cut by the Bills. A lot of really good WR’s on the free agent market and a declining cap could really hurt a guy like Brown. I wouldn’t wanna be looking for a team if I were him. I’d pounce on $5m guaranteed this year I were him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Please keep in mind that 99% of restructures are not pay cuts Don't take my word for it While that is true in general, it doesn’t apply here because you really can’t do much to restructure a one year contract. Brown is in the last season of his contract so that’s what we are dealing with. The only real option for a true restructure is to convert salary to a signing bonus and add voidable seasons to delay some of the cap hit. IMO the most likely option is to ask him to take a cut but add incentives so that he can make it back with availability and performance. That’s fair IMO. It’d be good for the team too because we could target his replacement in the draft and season him for a year. I prefer that to an extension because of his age and that he’s a speed guy. Those players fall off quick and I would rather move on a year early rather than a year late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Because, as Spotrac pointed out, 99% of renegotiations do not involve a paycut. I can only think of two pay cuts on the Bills in the last decade. Kraig Urbik took a paycut to stay for the final year of his deal when his role had changed from starter to backup in the meantime. The other, also oline, was Richie Incognito which was beyond weird when he took a paycut, then retired and fired off a load of tweets implying the Bills and his agent had worked together to screw him. And Richie is a special case with his issues. It is very rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) A for what I'd do with Brown..... I think I'd cut him, but I might be tempted towards a restructure (ie. extension with phoney voidable year in 2022) that takes $3m off his cap hit and kicks the can a little down the road depending on what happens with the cap. Essentially on a $185-190m cap in 2021 I think a #2 receiver at $6m cap it or thereabouts makes sense for this team. On a $175-180m cap I don't. When I look across our roster at where we are and where we need to upgrade I just think it is lower priority to keep Brown. Edited February 16, 2021 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 If the Broncos cut Von Miller I hope Beane can bring him to Buffalo. I don't think we need much help, but another pass rushing threat is definitely one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 I doubt they go after Tyrell Williams. I know he's a size guy but I think Gabe Davis could be a solid #2 and I kinda think maybe Kumerow will get a chance to be the 4th or 5th WR and he brings some size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 35 minutes ago, blacklabel said: I doubt they go after Tyrell Williams. I know he's a size guy but I think Gabe Davis could be a solid #2 and I kinda think maybe Kumerow will get a chance to be the 4th or 5th WR and he brings some size. They should 100% not go after Williams. He kinda sucks. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 I don't see how you can bring John Brown back at his number.. He had a bad year and it's rare for a guy on the downward trend of his career to see an uptick all things considered.. I know he was injured but he's not the no.1 on this team anymore and would be more of a support player for Diggs and Beasley anyways. His speed seemed diminished as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, HeHateMe said: I don't see how you can bring John Brown back at his number.. He had a bad year and it's rare for a guy on the downward trend of his career to see an uptick all things considered.. I know he was injured but he's not the no.1 on this team anymore and would be more of a support player for Diggs and Beasley anyways. His speed seemed diminished as well. Yeah, I like JB, he was great in 2019 but the injuries definitely wrecked his 2020. I know early on when he was missing games it seemed like the offense stalled a little bit but eventually they got to clicking so well that I didn't even realize Brown wasn't out there sometimes. I think they let him go to save some cap. Davis should only keep getting better and McKenzie could possibly start doing some deep routes. 2021 WR Group Guess 1. Diggs 2. Beasley 3. Davis 4. McKenzie 5. Kumerow 6. A guy who is primarily their return specialist and gets 4 targets and 2 catches a year. 7. Hodgins? According to camp reports the dude was catching everything. Edited February 16, 2021 by blacklabel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Eh. Feel they need to do more opposite Diggs if you release Brown.... look at KC and TB. Stacked at the skills position. Think we need to find a decent replacement for him if they do release him. All depends on how much the run game/OL and pass rush improved. our offense is fine without brown or a good replacement as long as the opposing defenses have to account for our run game. Our pass O was nearly unstoppable at time last year without brown....and no run game. Add in an improved pass rush and I think we can be good enough to win it all without replacing smoke with anyone other than Davis (and Hodgins replacing him and likely a middle round draft pick) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 The fact Beane was bringing wr's in during the year leads me to believe he's got some more work to do in the room. I don't know if an injury in 2020 is enough to get Brown a reduced contract or even let go, seems to me like it shouldn't. I think this will be an interesting decision for Beane though, judging by the way Beane structures the contracts it seems like he gives himself a < 2million dead cap hit to cut guys and Brown is definitely in that boat so it wouldn't surprise me if he approaches brown about a salary reduction. Just seems like he'd be creating a hole if he cuts brown, especially if there is no one else that has speed. I do believe we need a player to be able to step into the brown backup role by bringing some speed before approaching brown. The question is where do you put him. In a best case scenario I think we draft someone with really good speed that can also play wr and they take the spot of roberts and mckenzie. That leaves enough room for davis and hodgins to develop with the hope that some one on the roster can back up beasley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Marvin Jones Jr., in my opinion, would be the perfect addition to the Bills receiving corps. Big bodied receiver, with speed, who has played good football in the league. I’d give him the money before Smoke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSarcasm Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Don't project disagreement and concrete examples into "act like my answer is ridiculous", K? Every player in the league gets paid based on previous production. Except Clowney. People just keep paying him because he was a #1 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, ScottLaw said: Yea.... just worry about depth a bit. Specifically if Diggs gets hurt. Diggs is irreplaceable though in fairness. If I am keeping John Brown for that eventuality I have to feel I could get him back close to his career year form of 2019. And given he has only had 1 other season in his career close to that production wise I am sceptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Just now, ScottLaw said: Yes. I’m really not opposed to releasing Brown....I just hate the idea of releasing him and basically plugging in Davis to his spot. I'd plug Gabe (our best offensive performances were generally with Stef and Gabe wide, and I think that #2 outside is basically the #3 on this team cos Beas in the slot is the #2) but I am also trying to draft a receiver ideally day 2. If we are going to be a 4 and 5 wide team all the time we need to draft a receiver every year IMO like the Steelers do. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I'd plug Gabe (our best offensive performances were generally with Stef and Gabe wide, and I think that #2 outside is basically the #3 on this team cos Beas in the slot is the #2) but I am also trying to draft a receiver ideally day 2. If we are going to be a 4 and 5 wide team all the time we need to draft a receiver every year IMO like the Steelers do. I think if you move on from Brown, you have to at the very least bring in another veteran to compete with Davis in camp. I don't think you leave that to a day 2 pick as wideouts have a long lead time in picking up the NFL game. Best case scenario you keep Brown. But if the Bills do move on from him for cap reasons I am bringing Stills back at 4.5-5 million for next year. He has been in the building and has time on task in the offense. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 I think you bring back McKenzie and spend Brown’s money on a real Tight End. 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 The Panthers just released future Buffalo Bill Kawann Short. Just now, YoloinOhio said: Darn you beat me by seconds... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: *insert “I am inevitable” thanos gif* 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 I wonder what # he will get in Buffalo 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNYfan Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 I don't think I am as disappointed as I usually am when I see an ex-Panther most likely destined for Buffalo. Pretty good player isn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 On 2/12/2021 at 12:45 PM, Captain_Quint said: When does WattWatch2021 officially start? Watt and Oliver would be an amazing rotation and the pass rush combinations on passing downs would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 8 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Eh. Feel they need to do more opposite Diggs if you release Brown.... look at KC and TB. Stacked at the skills position. Think we need to find a decent replacement for him if they do release him. Yeah, I'm with ya there. I just don't know how highly they prioritize adding a receiver. I'm sure they will via draft or FA as they always love to create competition, just not sure how much they'd spend on a FA or in which round they'd draft one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I think they need to move-on from John Brown. He's got a bad mix of age and cap number. That being said, they need to replace his speed on offense so I'd talk to Stills and see what he'd be willing to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJK Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 If crowder is cut by the jets he could replace brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, RJK said: If crowder is cut by the jets he could replace brown Crowder is a slot guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorkScrewHill Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Crowder is a slot guy. And Will likely be more expensive.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 13 hours ago, Doc said: I think they need to move-on from John Brown. He's got a bad mix of age and cap number. That being said, they need to replace his speed on offense so I'd talk to Stills and see what he'd be willing to take. I'm sure one of two things is true: 1) after having a 3 week look at Stills, they decided he wasn't their kind of guy 2) they've already talked to Stills and his agent; he may already have an offer in hand (Darron Lee is said to have called into a talk show and said that he had an offer in hand from the Bills) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Stop Billeiving Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 22 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: I was thinking Short could be a potential cut and interesting add for the Bills based on his injuries the past two years and the massive amount of money Carolina would owe him in 2021. In my opinion, he's much more likely to have a Daryl Williams bounce back season than become a Vontae Davis. As the tweet mentioned, Short was previously an elite run defender and former Pro Bowler who played the best years of his career under Sean McDermott (and next to Star!). If we can bring him in on a one year deal (incentive-laden if possible) for $2-4 million, I would do that in a heart beat. Good risk-reward for the Bills at a position of need and good for Kawann Short who gets to play for a contender with world-class medical facilities and his former DC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Re Brown, Quoting Top Gun, "I feel the need for speed". Josh will eventually have a receiver he cannot over throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 13 hours ago, Doc said: I think they need to move-on from John Brown. He's got a bad mix of age and cap number. That being said, they need to replace his speed on offense so I'd talk to Stills and see what he'd be willing to take. Or they could extend Brown 1 year, lower his cap his dramatically and not create another need. We can lower his cap hit significantly with some pretty basic changes in structure. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm sure one of two things is true: 1) after having a 3 week look at Stills, they decided he wasn't their kind of guy 2) they've already talked to Stills and his agent; he may already have an offer in hand (Darron Lee is said to have called into a talk show and said that he had an offer in hand from the Bills) I wish they had signed Stills sooner so that he could have gotten into a real game near the end of the season. And I'm sure they offered both cheap deals, especially Lee. 5 hours ago, ndirish1978 said: Or they could extend Brown 1 year, lower his cap his dramatically and not create another need. We can lower his cap hit significantly with some pretty basic changes in structure. Again, age and availability are the key concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Vets over thirty should be worried. Beane will try to sign guys who are in their mid 20s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 On 2/17/2021 at 3:10 PM, Doc said: I wish they had signed Stills sooner so that he could have gotten into a real game near the end of the season. I expect Stills had something to do with that. He was still earning guaranteed money from the Texans until the post-season. I agree, for a guy to be a contributor, woulda helped a bunch to get him here earlier Quote And I'm sure they offered both cheap deals, especially Lee. I don't know. I could have this wrong, but essentially his drafting team (Saints) moved on from him in FA and then two different teams swallowed cap hits, Dolphins in trade and Texans by cutting him with substantial guaranteed salary $, to move on It's not like the Texans had overwhelming WR talent last year, either. Perhaps he just got a raw deal, or perhaps that's a giant red flag. So Beane brought him in as a "break glass in emergency" guy for the playoffs, and the team had 3 weeks to evaluate his work ethic, practice habits, personality, etc. Regarding any offer to Stills we've heard 🦗🦗. Maybe there's a reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: thanks. either guy of interest here? From the little research I did Allen looks like an interesting guy to bring in at CB depth. Edited February 18, 2021 by RyanC883 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seoulofstone Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 So this is an interesting article, projecting possible upcoming NFC cuts by Greg Rosenthal. https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfc-cut-candidates-viable-releases-and-potential-surprises The name that pops here, (especially if Watt goes elsewhere) is Chandler Jones. Definitely a guy that the Bills might want to take a look at. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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