Re-sign or “wave good-bye” series: Player 6 - Isaiah McKenzie

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I'd keep him over Andre Roberts. That said I'm on record wanting to keep Brown.  By keeping Brown, I let both McKenzie and Roberts go.  They can find a DB to be the KO/PR guy.

 

He barely saw the field in the playoffs when the top 4 WRs were all hurt.  That tells me he is gone. However if they decide to part ways with Brown and Roberts then my guess is they will make a play to keep McKenzie.  

Edited February 11, 2021 by Ethan in Portland

[LABILLBACKER]

10 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

He could be the kick and punt return man if they decide to keep him.

 

I don't see a fringe player asking for the moon in this climate/market/cap crunch

He could replace Roberts & Brown for a fraction of the money. I think if used properly he could be much more than the gadget sweep guy.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

I was torn between voting for #1 or #2. I settled for #2, but I personally would be inclined to give a little extra if it meant he stayed.

 

Cut Brown and let Davis and McKenzie pick up the slack, like they did for the half a season that Brown missed. Several of those games we were really clicking on offense. You can use him as our kick and punt returner to validate paying a little extra for him.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Definitely keep and give a bigger role in the offense. 

[Fixxxer]

I would like to keep him and I would like to expand his role with the team as a punt returner and kick-off returner. Roberts won't be back and McKenzie will become the versatile player McD likes to have in his roster. 

 

I'm not a cap numbers kind of guy, so I wouldn't know what his market will be. 

[billsfan_34]

13 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I'd like to keep him. Seems to have good chemistry with the team, and seems under-utilized for what he is capable of doing. I'd keep him over Brown.

Gimmick plays sure- as soon as there is any contact, he is down. Gifted player who is extremely weak.

[atlbillsfan1975]

It was not a coincidence that after McKenzie had his best game he also wasn’t effective the next week or two. Isaiah is fast but doesn’t seem to be able to take the regular hits that come with playing considerable time.

I wonder if the Bills will look for a later round smaller back with speed and pass catching ability to fill in for some of McKenzies edge rushes?

[letsgoteam]

I think the Bills want McKenzie and McKenzie wants to be a Bill. I think a fair deal for both sides is reached.

[Freddie's Dead]

All McKittrick does is make plays.  "Fringe player"?  Dude had 6 TD's this year, behind only Josh, Stef, and Gabe.  I couldn't find the number of first downs he had, but he was likely among the team leaders there as well.  He's more than a gadget player, but he's the 5th WR, so he's limited in the number of snaps.  But when he's in the game, he produces like a mofo.  We need more guys like him, guys that make plays on a regular basis.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

All McKittrick does is make plays.  "Fringe player"?  Dude had 6 TD's this year, behind only Josh, Stef, and Gabe.  I couldn't find the number of first downs he had, but he was likely among the team leaders there as well.  He's more than a gadget player, but he's the 5th WR, so he's limited in the number of snaps.  But when he's in the game, he produces like a mofo.  We need more guys like him, guys that make plays on a regular basis.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2020_advanced.htm you can see First downs here.

[Freddie's Dead]

32 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2020_advanced.htm you can see First downs here.

 

Thank you for that.  While not among the team leaders, he did have 19 FD on 40 touches, for 48%.  Not bad for a "fringe player".

Edited February 11, 2021 by Freddie's Dead

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

It was not a coincidence that after McKenzie had his best game he also wasn’t effective the next week or two. Isaiah is fast but doesn’t seem to be able to take the regular hits that come with playing considerable time.

I wonder if the Bills will look for a later round smaller back with speed and pass catching ability to fill in for some of McKenzies edge rushes?

 

I'm unclear on what you mean by "McKenzie's edge rushes"?  Not aware of McKenzie being used as a rusher at all, edge or otherwise.

 

I don't think it's clear that McKenzie "wasn't effective the next week or two" because he "doesn't seem able to take the regular hits with playing considerable time".  McKenzie had a great game against Miami and went out with an ankle injury.  He appeared on the injury report.  Any player can get a specific injury that limits them the next week.

 

Possibly with Cole Beasley's broken fibula, his role may have shifted to "on standby to replace Cole in case he couldn't hold out".   Possibly the ankle limited his playing time in the Colts game.  When a guy's trademark is elusiveness and speed, obviously an ankle will hobble him more.

But through the regular season, except for the Miami game, McKenzie saw 21% of the offensive snaps (7%-44%).  His usage in the playoffs mirrored that 7%-21% of the snaps. 

 

I think that's just how Daboll sees his role in the playbook/offensive scheme.

 

 

[DCOrange]

If he comes relatively cheap (like just a few million dollars per year), I'd bring him back, but he's a guy I'm hoping we can upgrade via the draft. The jet sweeps and stuff are an important piece of the offense, but we need someone that's more effective at other WR-things than McKenzie is IMO. A guy like Kadarius Toney or Rondale Moore would be a suitable replacement.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Keep and get him on the field more often.  The dude makes plays in his limited action.  

He doesn't have a great 40 but he's fast and shifty on the field. 

 

Question: What's a "great 40" to you? 

 

McKenzie ran a 4.42 (and had a 36" vertical jump).  It's not John Brown but it's probably the 2nd fastest on the offense 

Andre Roberts, regarded as a speedster, 4.46.  Stefon Diggs, 4.46.  Cole Beasley, 4.49.  Gabriel Davis 4.54.  Isaiah Hodgins, 4.61.  Kumerow, 4.54.  Taiwan Jones faster at 4.33 but he's apparently there to be the gunner.  Kenny Stills slightly faster 4.38. 

 

I think he's within measurement error of being a damn fast guy.

 

His problem is that he's a Beasley-size guy without the surgical precision that helps Beasley undress coverage on routes over the middle.  So he can be jammed and pressed and taken away.

 

14 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

Useful and reliable.  I would make a fair offer to keep him.  As others stated his kick return value is a bonus. 

 

18 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

McKenzie is a tricky one. Every team needs a gadget receiver these days. I just don’t know what the market value is for a guy like McKenzie.

 

16 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

Probably going to have to let him walk, some other team is going to offer him WR4 money in the 3ish million range and the Bills have Hodgins waiting in the wings.

 

Curious

1) what you guys think is "a fair offer"

2) why @billsfan89 believes WR4 money to be $3M-ish?

 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Question: What's a "great 40" to you? 

 

McKenzie ran a 4.42 (and had a 36" vertical jump).  It's not John Brown but it's probably the 2nd fastest on the offense 

Andre Roberts, regarded as a speedster, 4.46.  Stefon Diggs, 4.46.  Cole Beasley, 4.49.  Gabriel Davis 4.54.  Isaiah Hodgins, 4.61.  Kumerow, 4.54.  Taiwan Jones faster at 4.33 but he's apparently there to be the gunner.  Kenny Stills slightly faster 4.38. 

 

I think he's within measurement error of being a damn fast guy.

 

His problem is that he's a Beasley-size guy without the surgical precision that helps Beasley undress coverage on routes over the middle.  So he can be jammed and pressed and taken away.

 

 

 

 

Curious

1) what you guys think is "a fair offer"

2) why @billsfan89 believes WR4 money to be $3M-ish?

 

 

Great speed to me is the 4.3 guys and below.  

McKenzie, Roberts, Diggs and Beasley are fast.  

 

The guys in the 4.2's are at another level.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

Great speed to me is the 4.3 guys and below.  

The guys in the 4.2's are at another level.

 

Fair. Thanks for the response.

And these guys are?

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair. Thanks for the response.

And these guys are?

 

40's are just a measurement.  I think McKenzie does play fast which is why I'd like to see him on the field.  He can make a cut and not lose speed.

I think overall our WR is fast but a step behind KC in that area.  

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm unclear on what you mean by "McKenzie's edge rushes"?  Not aware of McKenzie being used as a rusher at all, edge or otherwise.

 

I don't think it's clear that McKenzie "wasn't effective the next week or two" because he "doesn't seem able to take the regular hits with playing considerable time".  McKenzie had a great game against Miami and went out with an ankle injury.  He appeared on the injury report.  Any player can get a specific injury that limits them the next week.

 

Possibly with Cole Beasley's broken fibula, his role may have shifted to "on standby to replace Cole in case he couldn't hold out".   Possibly the ankle limited his playing time in the Colts game.  When a guy's trademark is elusiveness and speed, obviously an ankle will hobble him more.

But through the regular season, except for the Miami game, McKenzie saw 21% of the offensive snaps (7%-44%).  His usage in the playoffs mirrored that 7%-21% of the snaps. 

 

I think that's just how Daboll sees his role in the playbook/offensive scheme.

 

 

I am referring to the jet sweeps which were used. These were, for me at least, the most effective rushing attempts around the edge of the defense. None of the Bills back possess speed to take a pitch from the backfield and get to the edge. I understand that some of these sweeps by McKenzie were listed as passes due to the nature of being a forward toss by JA.

I am a UGA fan and really wish McKenzie could be the returner and then the gadget guy on offense. I just do not have a ton of confidence he can be that guy. Whether it be an issue going back to college with fumbles on returns, or durability; McKenzie has his limitations. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[babulator]

No issue with Isiah.

 

He'll want more than I'd be willing to pay, I guess that makes him expendable. I think he's probably replaceable to save money. You have to look somewhere to save money given the current contract and salary cap situation. Though I have no idea what he wants and what his market value would be 🙈

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

If he comes relatively cheap (like just a few million dollars per year), I'd bring him back, but he's a guy I'm hoping we can upgrade via the draft. The jet sweeps and stuff are an important piece of the offense, but we need someone that's more effective at other WR-things than McKenzie is IMO. A guy like Kadarius Toney or Rondale Moore would be a suitable replacement.

 

re Toney or Moore, my sense is that those guys are mocked as 1st/2nd round picks. I can see the Bills being skittish for spending a high pick on a WR. Are you thinking one of these guys is going to fall a bit?

[DCOrange]

8 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

 

re Toney or Moore, my sense is that those guys are mocked as 1st/2nd round picks. I can see the Bills being skittish for spending a high pick on a WR. Are you thinking one of these guys is going to fall a bit?

No I definitely think it would require a 1st or 2nd round selection for those guys. I personally wouldn't hesitate to take them but I get that it's not at the top of the list of needs either. I do think a player that can do gadgety-stuff while also being a good WR in their own right is an underrated need though. I assume John Brown is gone this offseason and Davis slots in to his spot, but Beasley is old and will probably need to be replaced within a couple years at best and I think we'd be able to get someone like Toney or Moore on the field a lot even if they're technically the #4 WR on the team.

[krf139]

Not only is he a strong keep, they need to continue finding more ways to use his speed. 

[Big Turk]

22 hours ago, eSJayDee said:

I think it's more a matter of him not wanting to sign w/ us.  He's a solid contributor here, as a 4th or 5th WR.  One can't afford to pay a 5th WR well.  Further, I would suspect someone desperate to upgrade their WR position would see his productivity here & think he's got a (good) chance of being a significant contributor for them & of course offer him commensurate pay.

As for KR, I think he could be good & therefore worthy more $.  I'd be hesitant to let him return punts as I think he'd be a noticeable downgrade relative to Roberts WRT fielding the ball.

 

He made it sound like he wants to be back....he told BillsMafia and Brandon Beane to come find him selling meat at some local market

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Question: What's a "great 40" to you? 

 

McKenzie ran a 4.42 (and had a 36" vertical jump).  It's not John Brown but it's probably the 2nd fastest on the offense 

Andre Roberts, regarded as a speedster, 4.46.  Stefon Diggs, 4.46.  Cole Beasley, 4.49.  Gabriel Davis 4.54.  Isaiah Hodgins, 4.61.  Kumerow, 4.54.  Taiwan Jones faster at 4.33 but he's apparently there to be the gunner.  Kenny Stills slightly faster 4.38. 

 

I think he's within measurement error of being a damn fast guy.

 

His problem is that he's a Beasley-size guy without the surgical precision that helps Beasley undress coverage on routes over the middle.  So he can be jammed and pressed and taken away.

 

 

 

 

Curious

1) what you guys think is "a fair offer"

2) why @billsfan89 believes WR4 money to be $3M-ish?

 

 

3 million isn't WR4 money but I feel like a team like Jacksonville looking for a gadget player who can add some speed and versatility to their WR corps will pay him 3 million and that's just too much for the Bills. I think Mac also is someone who has been effective returning kicks. So I can once again see a team looking at Mac and seeing a player that can be their return man and give them 30 catches, 300 yards and 3-4 TD's to the offense, which is worth 3 million esp to a team flushed with cap space. 

 

I would love to have Mac back, I think he adds a nice wrinkle to the offense. But I think another team really talks themselves into paying him a bit more than he might be worth to the Bills.

[Mark Vader]

18 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Keep and get him on the field more often.  The dude makes plays in his limited action.  

 

He doesn't have a great 40 but he's fast and shifty on the field.  

 

Him and Beasley in the slot and Davis/Diggs on the outside....I think that's a good package (that's what she said).  If we keeps Stills, he can just be on our vertical packages.

 For your analysis on McKenzie.

 

For your overused joke.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

He made it sound like he wants to be back....he told BillsMafia and Brandon Beane to come find him selling meat at some local market

 

At his BBQ restaurant, my man, at his BBQ restaurant... La Traila BBQ, "Miami’s only Texas Craft Barbecue pit spot"

https://www.latrailabbq.com/about-us

[LABILLBACKER]

10 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

It was not a coincidence that after McKenzie had his best game he also wasn’t effective the next week or two. Isaiah is fast but doesn’t seem to be able to take the regular hits that come with playing considerable time.

I wonder if the Bills will look for a later round smaller back with speed and pass catching ability to fill in for some of McKenzies edge rushes?

I assume you're talking about our 3 playoff games. Call me crazy but it's kinda hard to be effective when you hardly touch the ball. Isaiah had 0 touches against the Colts and only 2 targets each against Baltimore and KC. He could easily assume the roll of our WR4 / PR / KR and save the team money to focus on other players.  I think that's what McB will do. Roberts & Brown will be gone.

[letsgoteam]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I assume you're talking about our 3 playoff games. Call me crazy but it's kinda hard to be effective when you hardly touch the ball. Isaiah had 0 touches against the Colts and only 2 targets each against Baltimore and KC. He could easily assume the roll of our WR4 / PR / KR and save the team money to focus on other players.  I think that's what McB will do. Roberts & Brown will be gone.

So I remember that they were reporting that he was injured after week 17. Does anyone know the what the actual extent was?

[Punching Bag]

Issue with measurements are most are from when players joined league.  Some measurements are redone although a lot of weight ones I am skeptical about but speed ones are almost never redone.  Most WRs should be looking for specialists in off season to work on their skills like QBs do with so much of NFL becoming an offense-first game.  Diggs has a specialist he works with, the one whose facility Barkley arranged for offense to do offseason workout in Florida last year, and they should be looking for someone like that.  If they can workout together even better.

[pigpen65]

Was he hurt for the playoffs? I just dont understand he goes off week 17 against Miami scoring 3 TDs every way you can score a TD, and then goes completely unused in the playoffs. And that was with Beasely, Brown, Diggs, and Davis all injured to varying degress. WTF happened?

[GreggTX]

He is very versatile. I'd like to see him stay for the right price.

[Justin C]

I think the WR position this year is going to come down to what they think they have in Isaiah Hodgins. If the staff thinks Hodgins can develop like Gabriel Davis did then it is a no brainer to cut John Brown and let Roberts walk, and hand more PR/KR duty over to McKenzie. Plus if they want to keep it safe they can always put Hyde back to catch punts when they are near their own end zone. 

 

I'd keep McKenzie around though if it were up to me. Couple years, maybe 2.5-3 million a year.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Justin C

[Victory Formation]

His value is around $2M. I’d love to have him back at that rate on a one year deal.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 2/11/2021 at 8:29 PM, letsgoteam said:

So I remember that they were reporting that he was injured after week 17. Does anyone know the what the actual extent was?

 

Not really.  It was an ankle sprain, and I believe he DNP then was limited, but I remember he practiced in full the last day and didn't have an injury designation for the game.

 

All season his use in games varied (aside from the end of the NE game then the Miami game) from a low of 7-10% to a high of 34%.  I assume it had to do with perceived match-ups.   Average snaps were 21%.

 

His use in the playoff games was consistent with this: 7%, 14%, 21%.

 

I think he's improving, but his weakness as a WR has been getting physically taken out of the game.  At 5'8", 173 he's the same size as John Brown, who is a much more polished WR but has the same struggles. 

[Mr. K]

He is a solid gadget guy and id like to see him back on a reasonable deal. However, if there is a little speedster sitting around late in the draft it may be better to take a shot for Beane. I like Isaiah as a player and person especially after getting to meet him at Bills Panthers camp. I see him as a bill

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

[PrimeTime101]

I think the middle option is going to be \"the go option" for many of these players

[LABILLBACKER]

On 2/13/2021 at 6:47 AM, Justin C said:

I think the WR position this year is going to come down to what they think they have in Isaiah Hodgins. If the staff thinks Hodgins can develop like Gabriel Davis did then it is a no brainer to cut John Brown and let Roberts walk, and hand more PR/KR duty over to McKenzie. Plus if they want to keep it safe they can always put Hyde back to catch punts when they are near their own end zone. 

 

I'd keep McKenzie around though if it were up to me. Couple years, maybe 2.5-3 million a year.

Considering everything McKenzie can do, 2.5M hardly breaks the bank for the organization. Especially when one player can replace 2....

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

He's an adventure in the PR/KR department.

 

He had some fumbling/muffed punt issues as a returned prior to getting Roberts and was benched a couple times there IIRC. 

At least he scored a td which is more than I can say for Roberts over 2 years.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 2/13/2021 at 8:50 AM, Victory Formation said:

His value is around $2M. I’d love to have him back at that rate on a one year deal.

 

I'm just curious how you determine that?