Doug Whaley Criticizes Sean McDermott’s Game Management vs Chiefs

[JaCrispy]

25 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Well he’s not wrong.... game was over when McD opted for the FG before half time to make it 21-12 when his defense couldn’t stop anything. You go for the TD there. He stands by the FG there even now. Slightly disappointing. 

I don’t mind that fg after hearing his reasoning...but the 2nd fg to give them 15 was definitely a mistake...that, to me, was when the game was over...

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Disagree.... he obviously didn’t have a good feel for the game or was coaching scared. The Bills defense could not stop the Chiefs. They needed TDS to keep pace. A FG wasn’t going to do much there. 

 

10 minutes ago, Process said:

Disagree, very strongly. 

you can disagree now with the confidence of hindsight. But we could all see at the time that the offense was out of sync and we were struggling to get a yard at a time, especially in the red zone.  I can tell you now that there was like zero percent chance we were scoring a TD there. The playcalling and execution were totally unhinged. 
 

hindsight is 20/20, but I figured the thinking there was get the points, get something to build on, and make adjustments to Come out with more

confidence in the second half. 

 

it didn’t work. But the media painting McD as being overly conservative or out of touch isn’t quite right. If we were playing like our usual

selves, he would have gone for it. He has done so all year long. 
 

 

[Niagara Dude]

Just now, JohnNord said:

The problem isn’t Frazier as much as it is a front 4 that doesn’t generate pressure and a MLB in Edmunds that isn’t physical and is easily fooled by fakes.  
 

Besides if the issue is scheme, nothing will change - its McDermott’s defense.

 

The problem is the Bills DL and LB’s....not Frazier

You still have to take chances,  rush one of DB'S even if Mahomes gets pass off you get hits on him.  We got no shots playing the way we did, it was not the right choice

[Rico]

1 minute ago, Niagara Dude said:

You still have to take chances,  rush one of DB'S even if Mahomes gets pass off you get hits on him.  We got no shots playing the way we did, it was not the right choice

Agree 100%, he needed to be hit. Well worth the 15 yards.

[Reed83HOF]

30 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Well he’s not wrong.... game was over when McD opted for the FG before half time to make it 21-12 when his defense couldn’t stop anything. You go for the TD there. He stands by the FG there even now. Slightly disappointing. 

I hate the FGs and am pissed about both of them, the more I reflect, he had zero confidence in our ability to get the ball in the end zone. I also had zero confidence that we would score. We would have turned the ball over both times on downs and he wanted to "save" the team from that....

[LABILLBACKER]

28 minutes ago, Process said:

He coached scared. We were completely outmatched, so it probably didn't cost us the game. But he 100% should be called out for it. 

 

Don't know why anyone would have a problem with that. 

There were warning signs last year in that Texans game. Covering up in a conservative shell with that 16-0 lead. Then settling for multiple fgs when maybe Sean should have realized who he was playing. I think we fans reflect on these frustrations. Sometimes he surprises us and goes for it.  Mostly he doesn't.  I'm sure he'll learn from this and realize KC will be the hurdle over the next several years. Why he didn't jam Kelce will puzzle me for some time?

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

You still have to take chances,  rush one of DB'S even if Mahomes gets pass off you get hits on him.  We got no shots playing the way we did, it was not the right choice

He did try though.  Look what happened on the goal when Kelcie was wide open and every time they blitzed Mahomes.  It’s getting to the point where if you want get pressure with your front 4, Mahomes is going to destroy the defense 

[GunnerBill]

I think McDermott should have gone for it. I don't think it was a great coached game job by the Bills but it was an even worse played one. 

 

The Ty Dunne hype machine for Whaley and Monos is definitely a bit weird though. Ty has made some odd career decisions.

[GETTOTHE50]

I agree with Whaley. McD got out coached. The aggression he showed all year during the season on offense just disappeared, and the aggression the defense was generating later into the season disappeared with the cover 2. 
 

i still don’t know how or what McD was game planning for. It was very strange, and his development is more important than anything this offseason. If he doesn’t get to the super bowl by 2023, then he needs to go. 

[JohnNord]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

There were warning signs last year in that Texans game. Covering up in a conservative shell with that 16-0 lead. Then settling for multiple fgs when maybe Sean should have realized who he was playing. I think we fans reflect on these frustrations. Sometimes he surprises us and goes for it.  Mostly he doesn't.  I'm sure he'll learn from this and realize KC will be the hurdle over the next several years. Why he didn't jam Kelce will puzzle me for some time?

Sal explained this.  If you miss on jam which often happens it’s impossible to recover given the speed of their receivers.  That’s why they tried to keep everything in front of them

[CommonCents]

41 minutes ago, Process said:

He coached scared. We were completely outmatched, so it probably didn't cost us the game. But he 100% should be called out for it. 

 

Don't know why anyone would have a problem with that. 

The source. 

 

We don’t need to hear it from a guy who was part of the circus at OBD.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

You still have to take chances,  rush one of DB'S even if Mahomes gets pass off you get hits on him.  We got no shots playing the way we did, it was not the right choice

 

I disagree. We had no shot blitzing him. We gave up a touchdown on that. We had no shot trying to cover them in man - witness the long Hill catch and run. I think rush 4 and play zone behind was the right plan with the players we have and with the defense we run. We did not execute it very well at all and I think our coverages were a bit predictable but we did try and mix other things in second half and Mahomes still killed us. 

 

It was talent not scheme that killed us on defense. 

[GETTOTHE50]

Wanted to add... how can you not blitz an injured mahomes in the first half? But then get destroyed by kelce and hill? I really just don’t understand the defensive game plan going into the game. The whole thing is just a sad head scratcher for me. 
 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Wanted to add... how can you not blitz an injured mahomes in the first half? But then get destroyed by kelce and hill? I really just don’t understand the defensive game plan going into the game. The whole thing is just a sad head scratcher for me. 
 

 

If we had blitzed Mahomes we'd have given up 50. 

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree. We had no shot blitzing him. We gave up a touchdown on that. We had no shot trying to cover them in man - witness the long Hill catch and run. I think rush 4 and play zone behind was the right plan with the players we have and with the defense we run. We did not execute it very well at all and I think our coverages were a bit predictable but we did try and mix other things in second half and Mahomes still killed us. 

 

It was talent not scheme that killed us on defense. 

The thing is, they did try to blitz and they switched to man as well.  The results were actually worse than when they played zone.  
 

They basically tried everything but nothing worked.  IMO the problems start with the defensive line and Edmunds.

[GETTOTHE50]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If we had blitzed Mahomes we'd have given up 50. 

So you’re ok with the dismissive defensive game plan then. Great 👍 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

The thing is, they did try to blitz and they switched to man as well.  The results were actually worse than when they played zone.  
 

They basically tried everything but nothing worked.  IMO the problems start with the defensive line and Edmunds.

 

Exactly. The worst two defensive calls of the game were blitzes. When fans see you get methodically picked apart in zone they always revert to "blitz more". It is very rarely the right answer.

[RyanC883]

41 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

McD’s decision to kick in the first half based on “morale” was absolutely the right one. You could tell the team was shell shocked. They had to get points. I thought it was very astute coaching.
 

The national pundits didn’t see how aggressive he was all year, and how this was a total change from what he normally does— based on his very good instincts of looking at his team at that moment. 
 

The second half decision was too risk averse, as I think McD will now concede. But hindsight is 20/20. If the D had gotten a stop or turnover, it would have probably worked out pretty well. But they didn’t, and we spiraled down. 

 

I get your point, but I disagree.  Kicking did nothing to help the "shell shocked" state of the team prior to the half.  If anything, it was waiving a mini white flag.  And we can out and ran the same soft "zone" defense and gave up a TD.   

[Southern_Bills]

Whaley isn't wrong, but his knockout punch was EJ Manuel. For clarification McD definitely coached scared.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GETTOTHE50 said:

So you’re ok with the dismissive defensive game plan then. Great 👍 

 

You realise that Mahomes has a better passer rating when blitzed than when facing a 4 man rush, right? That he hasn't thrown a single pick this year vs the blitz? That he has the best numbers in the league against the blitz? 

 

Blitzing Patrick Mahomes is suicide. 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

McDermott admitted he played it wrong.

 

End of thread, chicken heads/

[Solomon Grundy]

9 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

Whaley isn't wrong, but his knockout punch was EJ Manuel. For clarification McD definitely coached scared.

Manuel was just as much a “project” as Allen was. Both were big and mobile with accuracy issues. Problem was Allen had a coaching staff that knew how to “coach up” the player while Manuel had a coaching staff that ruined him.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Solomon Grundy

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Manuel was just as much a “project” as Allen was. Both were big and mobile with accuracy issues. Problem was Allen had a coaching staff that knew how to “coach up” the player while Manuel had a coaching staff that ruined him.

 

EJ could have been coached by Lombardi and Walsh. He still wasn't turning into Josh Allen.

[CommonCents]

Just don’t become the Steelers who always played zone against the Pats and lost big game after big game as Brady dissected their soft zone.

 

I have the fear with the Bills and Chiefs. If you’re going to play zone please find some guys that will punish opposing playmakers when they touch the ball.

 

Tampa had their struggles covering people for most the year, watch them next week. They have 4 or 5 guys that destroy anyone they can when given the chance. 

[Southern_Bills]

1 minute ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Manuel was just as much as a “project” as Allen was. Both were big and mobile with accuracy issues. Problem was Allen had a coaching staff that knew how to “coach up” the player while Manuel had a coaching staff that ruined him.

While I agree our coaching staff was not good when EJ came in, I still can't see him ever being successful. He was not that mobile, his athleticism never jumped off the screen at you.

 

We can agree to disagree but the easy stuff for EJ was hard, all around bad pick. 

 

Though EJ was a good guy, just not a good QB.

[Cruiserplayer]

Whaley couldn’t knock out the chump. How would he know how to knock out the Champ.

[GETTOTHE50]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You realise that Mahomes has a better passer rating when blitzed than when facing a 4 man rush, right? That he hasn't thrown a single pick this year vs the blitz? That he has the best numbers in the league against the blitz? 

 

Blitzing Patrick Mahomes is suicide. 

 

sure, but he was still injured with turf toe and a possible head injury.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

EJ could have been coached by Lombardi and Walsh. He still wasn't turning into Josh Allen.

Gunner, Manuel was no scrub. He played at a high level in the ACC and won championship. He showed promise in the beginning but got BAD coaching. 

[SinceThe70s]

So Whaley chimed in. Should I hold my breath until Buddy Nix or Tom Donahoe do the same?

 

Those guys were part of the problem, not the solution. Whether Whaley's comments are right or wrong: STFU.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

 

sure, but he was still injured with turf toe and a possible head injury.

 

He looked pretty darn healthy to me. I get it is frustrating to see the team sit back in zone and still get picked apart, but I promise you with the way our personnel match up to their personnel our options are really limited. To beat Mahomes you have to get edge pressure with your front 4. That is the biggest thing and anyone who has beaten him or got close to beating him the last two seasons that has been the model. 

3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Gunner, Manuel was no scrub. He played at a high level in the ACC and won championship. He showed promise in the beginning but got BAD coaching. 

 

I agree he got worse the longer he was with the Bills and was badly coached and developed. But he just wasn't in the same stratosphere of natural talent as Josh Allen. Even if he had been developed perfectly his ceiling was significantly lower. 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

Just don’t become the Steelers who always played zone against the Pats and lost big game after big game as Brady dissected their soft zone.

 

I have the fear with the Bills and Chiefs. If you’re going to play zone please find some guys that will punish opposing playmakers when they touch the ball.

 

Tampa had their struggles covering people for most the year, watch them next week. They have 4 or 5 guys that destroy anyone they can when given the chance. 

 

I know Tampa is gonna play a 3-4 rather than a 4-3 but the big thing Tampa can do that we can't is get edge pressue with Barrett and JPP. 

 

The Bills have to look at what they need to do different the next time they defend the Chiefs and there are some things they could try. The Pats when they played them earlier in the year did a lot of 3 man rush and 8 in coverage on 3rd down and got Mahomes off the field a lot. They also played some combination coverages on the back end where they played man on the outside with deep safety zones behind. That might be an option but they will need to upgrade the #2 corner spot to make that worth a go. 

 

But the thing that would make the biggest difference? Edge rush. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Doug Whaley has no room to talk. He was a horrible GM who hurt us cap wise while he was here and stuck us with Tyrod *****in Taylor for 3 years. I don’t give a ***** about his opinion. Sounds like he is still sour on being fired from Buffalo. Thank god for Beane

 

I agree 100%.  The gall of this clown.  He could have been GM for 25 years and would not have sniffed an AFC championship game.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by CincyBillsFan

[Solomon Grundy]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He looked pretty darn healthy to me. I get it is frustrating to see the team sit back in zone and still get picked apart, but I promise you with the way our personnel match up to their personnel our options are really limited. To beat Mahomes you have to get edge pressure with your front 4. That is the biggest thing and anyone who has beaten him or got close to beating him the last two seasons that has been the model. 

 

I agree he got worse the longer he was with the Bills and was badly coached and developed. But he just wasn't in the same stratosphere of natural talent as Josh Allen. Even if he had been developed perfectly his ceiling was significantly lower. 

He didn’t have Allen arm strength, but just as athletic. 
 

I see what Whaley/Nix thought could’ve been 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

Whaley and Monos hired McDermott.

 

4 months later McDermott fired them 🤣

 

 

 

MeThinks the Laddie doth protest too much

 

I don't think Whaley and Monos "hired" Sean McDermott.  I think the Pegulas hired Sean McDermott.  I don't think he was even their choice.

 

I mean, yeah, Whaley was a scout and eventually pro personnel coordinator during a time period when the Steelers won two superbowls, but saying he "won" a Superbowl with Pittsburgh is sort of like saying Jimmy Garappolo won a Superbowl with the NE Patriots - he was part of the team and in the building and I'm sure he contributed his bit, but he sure wasn't a main driver.

 

I "get it" that Ty Dunne (who I respected with the Buffalo News) is trying to make a living, but telling us about how great these out-of-the-NFL guys he brings in to trash the coach that went 15-4 and took the Bills to the first AFC championship in >25 years is "weak sauce" IMO.  It doesn't entice me to give him a listen.

 

I'll be watching Cover1 who have not, to my knowledge, "won" any Superbowls but who deliver something more than cliches

 

[popcornpam]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree. We had no shot blitzing him. We gave up a touchdown on that. We had no shot trying to cover them in man - witness the long Hill catch and run. I think rush 4 and play zone behind was the right plan with the players we have and with the defense we run. We did not execute it very well at all and I think our coverages were a bit predictable but we did try and mix other things in second half and Mahomes still killed us. 

 

It was talent not scheme that killed us on defense. 

If you sit back and play that prevent defense you are neutralizing our own offense because we don’t get the ball back

[JohnNord]

19 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Gunner, Manuel was no scrub. He played at a high level in the ACC and won championship. He showed promise in the beginning but got BAD coaching. 

This is completely untrue.  Manuel has nowhere near the athleticism, smarts, leadership or attributes that Allen did.  Not comparable  

Just now, popcornpam said:

If you sit back and play that prevent defense you are neutralizing our own offense because we don’t get the ball back

Or you could play man-to-man and get burned for a 71 yard completion

[popcornpam]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

This is completely untrue.  Manuel has nowhere near the athleticism, smarts, leadership or attributes that Allen did.  Not comparable  

Or you could play man-to-man and get burned for a 71 yard completion

Well then why were even there if we give up play prevent and wave the white flag until they score. That’s why Mickey D never beat Brady. (Oh we can’t blitz him he might burn us)  Mix up the defenses. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Brandon and Whaley were failures on a epic level. Easy to criticize a coaches game plan when 3 starting WR’s are playing injured and no running game. I think our game plan was based on the injuries knowing we couldn’t match the KC offense.

[Virgil]

Get ***** Whaley

[Dablitzkrieg]

I guess my first thought is why the hell would you listen to anything related to Tyler Dunne? 🤣🤣

 

My second thought is why would you even care what Whaley says? Absolutely worst public presence in Buffalo Bills history.