The only thing that can set Josh back, the only thing that can cause him to regress

[ILBillsfan]

Need to give some credit with his pocket presence and the way he has worked in the offseason.....Agree they work very good together but I think Josh has made huge strides in his game and allowed Daboll to be even more creative some of this success needs to be going to Allen as well

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

If Dabolls’ sincerity is to be believed, he ain’t goin’ nowhere. 23 years as a Coach in the AFCE and finally able to move back home where he can visit his grandparents while directing the thrilling Bills Offense is, IMO, his dream job. Don’t know/haven’t heard that he actually seeks to be a HC but I’d be surprised if so. 

Part of me wishes Sean hadn’t promoted Frazier to AHC as Brian is more deserving and worthy of the ‘protection’ the title entails from wannabe poachers. If he does aspire to move away from WNY again and become a HC, then Best Wishes! I just don’t think he’d prefer it -e$pecially if the Bill$ $weeten the pot $ome..

 

From what I am told he is preparing for interviews and pulling together a staff (was told Patricia is a potential DC on a Daboll ticket). I think he wants it. Might it be the case though that he does a Josh McDaniels and withdraws his name from certain situations if he doesn't feel it is perfect - not in the accept the job and pull out way he did to the Colts but in the way he has done with interviews elsewhere over the years. 

[Inigo Montoya]

22 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

If Dabolls’ sincerity is to be believed, he ain’t goin’ nowhere. 23 years as a Coach in the AFCE and finally able to move back home where he can visit his grandparents while directing the thrilling Bills Offense is, IMO, his dream job. Don’t know/haven’t heard that he actually seeks to be a HC but I’d be surprised if so. 

Part of me wishes Sean hadn’t promoted Frazier to AHC as Brian is more deserving and worthy of the ‘protection’ the title entails from wannabe poachers. If he does aspire to move away from WNY again and become a HC, then Best Wishes! I just don’t think he’d prefer it -e$pecially if the Bill$ $weeten the pot $ome..

 

I agree 100%.  The Buffalo connection is the big thing here.  He has a daughter who is a heck of a multi-sport athlete in high school at Nardin.  That's where my mother went to high school back in the day.  As a dad Daboll may be loathe to uproot her during highschool.  Daboll is only 45 years old and has plenty of time to be a HC if he wants to.  If he can help the Bills win a SB in the next few years he will have his pick of jobs at that point.   Being from Buffalo he understands what a championship would mean to this town.  Who wouldn't want to be a part of that?   I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pegulas get proactive and put more money in his pocket before the end of this season.  They seem to understand the value of continuity in a franchise.  

[Merle]

48 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

I think they fill it from within. And I think Ken Dorsey gets the job as the OC.

If Daboll does get a HC gig, the odds are he will take most of his staff with him, including Dorsey.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I don't see him leaving.  Not sure how much respect he gets outside of Buffalo.  Don't see him mentioned in the same breath as other guys like Bieniemy.  But he is white and has ties back to Belichick so I guess anything can happen.

[Rc2catch]

I honestly don’t worry about Daboll leaving. 
This offense isn’t all scheme like some others. The success has always been Allen and his development. Allen has worked on his game and the base is there now. He knows what works and what he’s good at and any new coordinators are going to build a scheme based off what Allen wants to do. 
Daboll I would of fired last year honestly but as per usual I don’t always see the bigger picture with this front office and coaching staff. I think we will be ok with or without Daboll 

[Bob in STL]

1 hour ago, Victory Formation said:

Is if Daboll gets a head coaching gig somewhere else and McDermott doesn’t fill the cupboards after Daboll leaves.. It’s looking more n more like Daboll will be gone this offseason.. And Sean McDermott being the defensive minded coach that he is will be charged with the task of finding a new OC and offensive staff.. This will likely determine if coach McD will be here for 5 more years or if he’ll be gone in two.. Will McD embellish the job of being a HC, or will he prove to simply be a glorified DC? Obviously you’d like to see him grow into the role of HC the way Bill Belichick did in New England and master both sides of the ball.. But will McDermott have the knowledge and insight to replace our offensive staff next year in the event that our coaching staff gets gutted? Will he be able to keep the system the same for Josh? Will he hire the next Brian Daboll? Or will he hire the next Rick Dennison? This could very well determine the length of Sean McDermott’s stay in Buffalo..

 

Not buying it.  It is common today for OCs and DCs on good teams to move on.  Josh should be able to adapt to a new system.  Josh gets off season coaching separate from Daboll and he has been able to fine tune his game.  He knows how to learn and works hard at his craft.  
 

Now a new OC could be less creative or less capable but all teams face this.   
 

All this talk of Daboll leaving is still only speculation.   Sure, he probably wants to be a HC but he knows he is in a good place and may want to stay.  
 

 

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I honestly don’t worry about Daboll leaving. 
This offense isn’t all scheme like some others. The success has always been Allen and his development. Allen has worked on his game and the base is there now. He knows what works and what he’s good at and any new coordinators are going to build a scheme based off what Allen wants to do. 
Daboll I would of fired last year honestly but as per usual I don’t always see the bigger picture with this front office and coaching staff. I think we will be ok with or without Daboll 

 

I think firing him last year would have been a big mistake. It was the critical offseason for Josh and we are reaping the benefits of the comfort level in the scheme. It meant Josh could just worry about working on his game not learning a whole new offense. I honestly think now Josh is at the point where his confidence is such that if it is a new guy he will be fine. Particularly if, as I expect, they promote Dorsey from within. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

22 minutes ago, Merle said:

If Daboll does get a HC gig, the odds are he will take most of his staff with him, including Dorsey.

Why would Dorsey leave for what would most likely be a rebuild when he can just be the Coordinator here with an established QB that he’s familiar with?

 

Dorsey was in Carolina with Beane and McDermott. The only history he has with Daboll is this year and last in Buffalo.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Not at the table Karlos

[TBBills Fan]

1 hour ago, Dkollidas said:

I think they fill it from within. And I think Ken Dorsey gets the job as the OC.

 

I know a lot of the league is trending towards offensive coach matched with a QB (Mahomes-Reid, Rodgers-LaFleur, Goff-McVay).

 

I do believe no small part of this offense’s success is due to Daboll. But this is Allen’s 3rd year in the system, Daboll and Dorsey have been here the entire time together, Dorsey knows the system and knows Allen. 
 

But I believe overall the better setup is to have a strong QB run your offense, and a coach who can coach up the defense, like McDermott. I do believe he’s also growing as a head coach right in front of our eyes and that this organization has a top-5 Head Coach/Quarterback combo and in my estimation THAT is the greatest precursor to long term success if well managed (which I also believe we are with Beane as GM as well).

 

 

I agree wit this, there is a huge benefit in terms of continuity and it also seems like the type of process, guys move up as opposed to moving in from outside that Bean and Mcdermott would desire

[Rc2catch]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think firing him last year would have been a big mistake. It was the critical offseason for Josh and we are reaping the benefits of the comfort level in the scheme. It meant Josh could just worry about working on his game not learning a whole new offense. I honestly think now Josh is at the point where his confidence is such that if it is a new guy he will be fine. Particularly if, as I expect, they promote Dorsey from within. 

Yeah after Houston I would of canned him. But it definitely would of been a huge mistake. I respected him in the fact he’s always been genius at scheming guys open, just hated his predictability last year. He’s done wonderful this season though 

[Rk_Bills86]

I'm sure other people have noted it - but if you were looking for a place to show you know your stuff as an OC - JA and his weapons seems like a pretty good gig. You'd have to imagine if you were looking for an OC job there won't be many better options that aren't on rebuilding teams with possible office strife. 

[TBBills Fan]

38 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

I agree 100%.  The Buffalo connection is the big thing here.  He has a daughter who is a heck of a multi-sport athlete in high school at Nardin.  That's where my mother went to high school back in the day.  As a dad Daboll may be loathe to uproot her during highschool.  Daboll is only 45 years old and has plenty of time to be a HC if he wants to.  If he can help the Bills win a SB in the next few years he will have his pick of jobs at that point.   Being from Buffalo he understands what a championship would mean to this town.  Who wouldn't want to be a part of that?   I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pegulas get proactive and put more money in his pocket before the end of this season.  They seem to understand the value of continuity in a franchise.  

 

very valid points. He was a Bills Fan after all

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

I think the only thing we need to be truly worried about is a very serious injury. Otherwise, Josh Allen should be a top-5 QB for the next 10+ years. Now, whether or not the team will be good depends largely on what type of contract Josh accepts.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Dkollidas said:

I think they fill it from within. And I think Ken Dorsey gets the job as the OC.

 

I know a lot of the league is trending towards offensive coach matched with a QB (Mahomes-Reid, Rodgers-LaFleur, Goff-McVay).

 

I do believe no small part of this offense’s success is due to Daboll. But this is Allen’s 3rd year in the system, Daboll and Dorsey have been here the entire time together, Dorsey knows the system and knows Allen. 
 

But I believe overall the better setup is to have a strong QB run your offense, and a coach who can coach up the defense, like McDermott. I do believe he’s also growing as a head coach right in front of our eyes and that this organization has a top-5 Head Coach/Quarterback combo and in my estimation THAT is the greatest precursor to long term success if well managed (which I also believe we are with Beane as GM as well).

Dorsey is assured of the job if he wants it. 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Merle said:

If Daboll does get a HC gig, the odds are he will take most of his staff with him, including Dorsey.

The Bills will make it very difficult for Dorsey to say no to being named an Asst. HC/OC if Daboll tries to poach him if he (Daboll) should leave. And has been pointed out up thread, Daboll would be leaving for a rebuild somewhere else. 

[Victory Formation]

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Why would Dorsey leave for what would most likely be a rebuild when he can just be the Coordinator here with an established QB that he’s familiar with?

 

Dorsey was in Carolina with Beane and McDermott. The only history he has with Daboll is this year and last in Buffalo.

If Anthony Lynn gets fired in LA, I’d love to potentially bring him back as our OC if our staff gets gutted.. He may not be a HC but he has always established a darn good running game and he did real good with Herbert. Wouldn’t have to worry about other teams poaching him as he is not HC material. A running game behind Allen is a scary thought..

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Dorsey is assured of the job if he wants it. 

I’d rather see Anthony Lynn brought in as OC/running game coordinator and potentially keep Dorsey as our QB coach/passing game coordinator.. Chad Hall WR coach should be retained if possible as should Bobby Johnson OL coach.. Think collectively between Lynn, Dorsey and Allen we’d be cooking on offense..

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, Victory Formation said:

If Anthony Lynn gets fired in LA, I’d love to potentially bring him back as our OC if our staff gets gutted.. He may not be a HC but he has always established a darn good running game and he did real good with Herbert. Wouldn’t have to worry about other teams poaching him as he is not HC material. A running game behind Allen is a scary thought..

I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that he holds a grudge against us because he didn’t get the HC job. 

[Warcodered]

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

If Dabolls’ sincerity is to be believed, he ain’t goin’ nowhere. 23 years as a Coach in the AFCE and finally able to move back home where he can visit his grandparents while directing the thrilling Bills Offense is, IMO, his dream job. Don’t know/haven’t heard that he actually seeks to be a HC but I’d be surprised if so. 

Part of me wishes Sean hadn’t promoted Frazier to AHC as Brian is more deserving and worthy of the ‘protection’ the title entails from wannabe poachers. If he does aspire to move away from WNY again and become a HC, then Best Wishes! I just don’t think he’d prefer it -e$pecially if the Bill$ $weeten the pot $ome..

I'd say best case scenario unless a dream spot opens up (which it very well might with Chargers and Texans) Daboll sticks around waiting for the right opportunity while trying to bring a Lombardi to his hometown.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Warcodered

[Green Lightning]

Hard to believe Daboll would not take a great HC gig in San Diego or Houston. And like the team, it would be next man up. That said, I'd love to have him here for another year and so would Sean and Josh. I guess it just depends of the gig. He's already played a huge role here in fashioning Josh into a true franchise QB and budding star. 

[bigK14094]

6 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

My prediction is Dabol will get a HC job at some point but will flame out ala Josh McDaniels. 

 

Then he will be back in 3 years as our Coordinator again. 

 

I also think We will offer him a boat load of money to try and keep him here at all costs..

HC compensation is 3x coordinator.  Bills not gonna pay that for a coordinator.  the cupboard is bare with all the loss of revenue.

[bigK14094]

7 hours ago, Merle said:

If Daboll does get a HC gig, the odds are he will take most of his staff with him, including Dorsey.

McD brought in Dorsey, not Daboll

[folz]

I would hate to see Daboll go at this point...he's calling great games, his relationship with Josh, he's a hometown guy, etc. I hope that he's around one more year at least. But, I wouldn't be as worried as the OP if Daboll were to leave for a head coaching position for three reasons:

 

1. We are in a very different position for hiring OCs than we were in Sean's first year. In 2017, we were a down-and-out franchise that hadn't done much winning for 20 years and Sean was a first-time head coach working for an organization that had been turning over head coaches every two to three years. Bad team, no stability, and no QB? What OC wants that, unless it is their only option. Cut to 3+ years later, we should be making our third trip to the playoffs in four years under McD, Sean's reputation across the league has really risen, the organization under the Pegulas and McBeane is stable. The owners put money into the team/want to win. Beane has a top FO. The team is talented, with young core players all over the place. You have a top WR group. And most importantly, a young, ascending, franchise QB. Sean should have the pick of the litter with OCs if Daboll leaves and Sean decides to hire outside the organization. And a high-end OC will be able to work with Josh and adapt his scheme and or Josh's game to continue to be successful. And there is no way, with as methodical as McDermott and Beane are, that they don't know who the best OCs or potential OCs are and/or who would be good for Josh/the team. You can't use the hiring of Dennison under the circumstances of 2017 as a future predictor that Sean can't hire a good OC.

 

2. Because Daboll's system is so situational, the players and Josh learn to attack in many different ways. The offense can be chameleon-like from week to week. Sometimes a QB's skills fit a particular system and they have some success in it, but if you take them out of that system, they seem to regress or not be able to grasp/execute in other systems. But, thanks to Daboll's system, Josh is not doing one thing, one way, every week. He has learned to be adaptable and attack any defense in multiple ways. They have learned more concepts (how many times have we heard jokes about the size of Daboll's playbook) than your average team, so they can call on them if need be against a specific opponent. I think that Josh would be able to pick up another system pretty well at this stage of his development.

 

3. JOSH himself. The kid just has superhero-level talent and it is matched with smarts, drive, work ethic, competitiveness, and good relationships with everyone. I have confidence that Josh will make whatever his situation is work for him. As long as his coaches are above average (and point one should quell that fear), then I think Josh will continue to succeed. Daboll has given him such a solid base and core (and he's a smart kid to begin with) that I think, at this point, Josh could still flourish with a different coach/system, etc. Josh won't let Josh fail.

Edited December 9, 2020 by folz

[Merle]

3 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

McD brought in Dorsey, not Daboll

Thanks for clarifying for me.  That's great news!

[HappyDays]

I don't like how many people are suggesting Ken Dorsey to replace Daboll. That would be a lazy uninspiring choice. Give me a rising offensive assistant or a solid OC that gets let go as part of a regime change. Surely someone better than Ken Dorsey will want to add a Josh Allen/Stefon Diggs/Cole Beasley offense to their resume. What about Bill O'Brien? Even Anthony Lynn? Someone that has proven they can design an NFL offense.

Edited December 9, 2020 by HappyDays

[Da webster guy]

13 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

My prediction is Dabol will get a HC job at some point but will flame out ala Josh McDaniels. 

 

Then he will be back in 3 years as our Coordinator again. 

 

I also think We will offer him a boat load of money to try and keep him here at all costs..

Always tough as a new HC because you're almost always coming into a mess, but the Chargers have to be looking at Daboll pretty hard this offseason and they're not really a mess, they just need a good HC.  Top 12 on both sides of the ball.

[billsherd]

Maybe Dorsey is helping with the game plans and all the trick plays. 

[letsgoteam]

My thought has been this for awhile, he has seen a lot of coordinators (think of all the Pats who've flamed out) not have success as a head coach. With all of the other points made as well I believe he would be willing to stay. 

[Bronxbomber21]

I could see Daboll staying he loves buffalo and he and his wife are from the area plus they have 6 kids that are growing up in the community 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I don't like how many people are suggesting Ken Dorsey to replace Daboll. That would be a lazy uninspiring choice. Give me a rising offensive assistant or a solid OC that gets let go as part of a regime change. Surely someone better than Ken Dorsey will want to add a Josh Allen/Stefon Diggs/Cole Beasley offense to their resume. What about Bill O'Brien? Even Anthony Lynn? Someone that has proven they can design an NFL offense.

 

I would prefer Dorsey to Lynn. Lynn has never designed an offense anywhere. He called an offense here - but it was Greg Roman's scheme and Greg Roman's design. Then in LA it was Whiz's scheme in 18 and 19...  he might have had more of a say this year but to be honest I am not hugely impressed with them schematically even with Herbert playing as well as he has.

 

Bill O'Brien would be an interesting choice in that he has proven he can design an offense and call plays and he is an E-P guy so schematically and verbiage not much would have to change. My concern there would be personality. Not sure he is a good mesh with McDermott or with Josh to be honest.

 

If I was going for someone a bit left field I have been a big proponent of Sean Ryan. He has coached quarterbacks and receivers in his career, was DeShaun Watson's QB coach the first two years in Houston, under O'Brien where they ran a lot of E-P concept stuff and then has been in Detroit as QB coach where Bevell isn't a pure E-P guy but has incorporated lots of those concepts presumably at Patricia's direction. I have always thought he is great with young players - he was OBJ's coach as a rookie and he, like Watson, raves about him. 

 

I just think the decision will be about what makes Josh comfortable and if they feel he is comfortable with Dorsey that makes him the most likely hire.

Edited December 9, 2020 by GunnerBill

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

6 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

Always tough as a new HC because you're almost always coming into a mess, but the Chargers have to be looking at Daboll pretty hard this offseason and they're not really a mess, they just need a good HC.  Top 12 on both sides of the ball.

Good point and have  another young promising Qb.

[Niagara Bill]

The thread was about what could limit Josh...it is not coaching now, not play calling...

When Covid ends....and it will... Chippawa, adoration and ***** Galore could be his only undoing.

He has been focused fully, he has his head on football mode, he is a great teammate, hope it stays that way...

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

oh, so this is one of those "what if" threads.

 

hard to think of regression sitting at 9-3 and coming off a game like monday night but I guess what ever floats your boat.

 

 

[H2o]

Dorsey is waiting in the wings imo. He's a smart guy and even Josh talked about the "juice" he's brought into the room. I'm sure McDermott has already considered the potential losses of both Daboll and Frazier at any given point and has an idea as to what he would do.