Bills have 3 of top 15 highest rated pass rushers

[BillsMafi$]

per PFF
 

 

 

8. Jerry Hughes - 81.6
13. Mario Addison - 77.0
14. Trent Murphy - 76.9

 

 

Pass win rate top 5. Hughes number 1

 

 

1. Hughes 31.3%
2. T.J. Watt 30.3%
3. Grady Jarrett 28.2%
4. Brian Burns 28.1%
5. Myles Garrett 27.7%

 

other Bills in pass win rate 

 

 

 

45. Quinton Jefferson 14.6%
62. Ed Oliver 11.6%
67. Mario Addison 11.1%

Edited October 29, 2020 by BillsMafi$

[yeethaw]

Trent Murphy being top 15 is all you need to know about the legitimacy of those rankings this early

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

Interesting... once they actually start hitting the qbwhich I think started vs the jets.. our d will improve drastically.. hopefully we can make it to the bye without more injuries then be almost at 100% going forward

[Big Turk]

But...but...but....Hughes is old and sucks I thought??

Just now, Kenosha2Buffalo said:

Interesting... once they actually start hitting the qbwhich I think started vs the jets.. our d will improve drastically.. hopefully we can make it to the bye without more injuries then be almost at 100% going forward

 

They were all over the Raiders in the 2nd half too...Carr was running for his life

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

But...but...but....Hughes is old and sucks I thought??

 

They were all over the Raiders in the 2nd half too...Carr was running for his life

 

Yeah I do remember getting to carr too. It's frustrating most weeks as we get there but don't disrupt anything or hit the qb. Here's to hoping they figure it out ! 

[Freddie's Dead]

Butbutbut....they suck and they're overpaid....

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

But...but...but....Hughes is old and sucks I thought??

You raise an excellent point and I like your humor.  I don't believe everything I read.  Most fans only look at sacks.  Hits, hurries, tipped passes, runs from the pocket, throw aways, some other incomplete passes, and o-line penalties are all part of it.  Even with this recognition, I would like to see more from the DE position on running plays.  As fans, we're just greedy...lol.

[BuffaloBobs]

That's what I see when I watch the games too. The problem is we get gashed on the ground and it's tough to get home when your opponent is averaging 10+ YPC and they can throw play action at you all game -- I would also imagine with the injuries to our linebackers we are asking a lot of our edge defenders to hold contain rather than get home in the pass rush because our backups there either lack the recognition skills or athleticism (Klein) to hold the edge in the run game.

[BuffaloRebound]

Props to Hughes against the Jets.  He was a force.  I’d be curious though what PFF counts as a pass rush win?  Is it a win when you get in the back field but totally give up contain and the QB easily scrambles for 15 yards like what was regularly happening to Hughes at beginning of season?  

[formerlyofCtown]

31 minutes ago, BillsMafi$ said:

per PFF
 

 

 

8. Jerry Hughes - 81.6
13. Mario Addison - 77.0
14. Trent Murphy - 76.9

 

 

Pass win rate top 5. Hughes number 1

 

 

1. Hughes 31.3%
2. T.J. Watt 30.3%
3. Grady Jarrett 28.2%
4. Brian Burns 28.1%
5. Myles Garrett 27.7%

 

other Bills in pass win rate 

 

 

 

45. Quinton Jefferson 14.6%
62. Ed Oliver 11.6%
67. Mario Addison 11.1%

You saved me the trouble of having to do this in the other thread.

You also have to bring into account that Oliver has been playing a lot of 1Tech.

Edited October 29, 2020 by formerlyofCtown

[NewEra]

Jerrrrrrrrrrrrry!!!!

[uticaclub]

We are the only team to play the Jets twice

[formerlyofCtown]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Props to Hughes against the Jets.  He was a force.  I’d be curious though what PFF counts as a pass rush win?  Is it a win when you get in the back field but totally give up contain and the QB easily scrambles for 15 yards like what was regularly happening to Hughes at beginning of season?  

It is completely apparent when you actually watch the tape.  So is a ridiculous amount of holding which the league is allowing.  

All teams get hurt by QB runs unless they game plan to stop it.  Just ask the teams that play Lamar, Josh, Dak and Murray to name a few.  That's why it's great to have a mobile QB.

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

We are the only team to play the Jets twice

 

We've also faced I believe 4 of the top 10 offenses in the NFL.

[JerseyBills]

Still not a fan of the grades but I lovd the advanced stats . 55 has been remarkable as usual.  

[C.Biscuit97]

So do we like PFF now?

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We've also faced I believe 4 of the top 10 offenses in the NFL.

And the worst one twice.  
 

I do think the D is better than they shown but it is a startling regression.  Key losses, a much, much tougher schedule, and honestly our offense scoring more has hurt the defense. 

[jahbonas]

Which is just a reminder why trying to apply absolute statistics by PFF  is an inexact science at best

 

Baseball with its 162 games is the perfect sport for stats and analytics  -  Pro football  not even close

[GunnerBill]

Trent is trash and has played like trash. There is a reason they benched him.

[BringBackFlutie]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

Trent is trash and has played like trash. There is a reason they benched him.

 

Lol.  If ever you were to have a cruisade, it's against poor Trent.  I don't disagree, though.

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So do we like PFF now?

And the worst one twice.  
 

I do think the D is better than they shown but it is a startling regression.  Key losses, a much, much tougher schedule, and honestly our offense scoring more has hurt the defense. 

 

I agree with what Nick Saban said....good defenses don't stop good offenses anymore.

 

But yes, I agree with you that our defense is better than what they're showing but they still have a long way to go.

I saw them playing around and not hesitating in the 2nd half against the Jets.  Obviously we aren't going to be repeat that, especially against better teams but at least they seemed to playing more confidently.  Lets hope so at least.

[formerlyofCtown]

33 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

You raise an excellent point and I like your humor.  I don't believe everything I read.  Most fans only look at sacks.  Hits, hurries, tipped passes, runs from the pocket, throw aways, some other incomplete passes, and o-line penalties are all part of it.  Even with this recognition, I would like to see more from the DE position on running plays.  As fans, we're just greedy...lol.

This D isn't predicated on sacks.  It's designed to force the ball out quickly into our zone coverage which is often not what it looked to be pre-snap.  Unfortunately our pass defenders have been and are banged up.

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Trent is trash and has played like trash. There is a reason they benched him.

Yup we just don't know why.  He seemed to be playing just fine against the Jets though.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said:

 

Lol.  If ever you were to have a cruisade, it's against poor Trent.  I don't disagree, though.

 

 

 

Haha. I am harsh on him. He does occasionally provide a bit of pass rush. But he a disaster in the run game and inconsistent as an edge rusher. If the Bills were paying him a couple of mil per year he would annoy me less.

2 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

This D isn't predicated on sacks.  It's designed to force the ball out quickly into our zone coverage which is often not what it looked to be pre-snap.  Unfortunately our pass defenders have been and are banged up.

 

Yea pocket pushers matter as much as guys who actually get home. The other issue our D has had though is adjusting to teams going heavy PA against us. We are still doing a good job forcing the QB off his spot of out of timing in the conventional dropback (not quite as good as in past years but a decent job)…. where we are really struggling to cover is off play action.

[formerlyofCtown]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Haha. I am harsh on him. He does occasionally provide a bit of pass rush. But he a disaster in the run game and inconsistent as an edge rusher. If the Bills were paying him a couple of mil per year he would annoy me less.

 

Yea pocket pushers matter as much as guys who actually get home. The other issue our D has had though is adjusting to teams going heavy PA against us. We are still doing a good job forcing the QB off his spot of out of timing in the conventional dropback (not quite as good as in past years but a decent job)…. where we are really struggling to cover is off play action.

One knock I could give concerning our current DEs is a tendency to over pursue.  A healthy Milano and Edmonds have made up for over pursuit in the past at LB.  I honest believe when this D gets healthy they will sit just outside the top ten with Star and a good 3rd LB we would be top 5 again.

Edited October 29, 2020 by formerlyofCtown

[Bangarang]

The PFF flip flopping continues. Today they are credible. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

The PFF flip flopping continues. Today they are credible. 

 

TSW has always subscribed to the "judge the messenger by the message" theory....

[Orlando Tim]

I do not understand how your win rate can be low but your overall grade good with these guys. I know they are not studs on run plays so their better plays have to be passing plays.

[Stank_Nasty]

53 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So do we like PFF now?

And the worst one twice.  
 

I do think the D is better than they shown but it is a startling regression.  Key losses, a much, much tougher schedule, and honestly our offense scoring more has hurt the defense. 

No we dont. but you're always right on cue with this sort of post in anything media related. kudos for the consistency 

[Heitz]

24 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

The PFF flip flopping continues. Today they are credible. 

 

Doesn't pass the sniff tes, er, eye test... 🤣

[thurst44]

18 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

The PFF flip flopping continues. Today they are credible. 

PFF is a good idea in theory, in that it goes beyond the raw stats that can be misleading. The problem is that it's subjective and the argument that its detractors have is that the people doing the judging aren't great at eliminating their personal biases. Also, as one person pointed out to me (and i think it was someone in this thread), there can be blind spots b/c they favor the flashier play at the expense of the player just doing their job sometimes, which works at some positions, but can be misleading at, say, cornerback, where a great CB just does not get thrown at often.

 

I want to love the concept of PFF (how often are there stats quantifying offensive linemen), but it's hard to take them seriously when after watching the games multiple times from multiple angles last year, I see that they label Tre White the 18th best CB or that a dominant game by Allen earlier this season had him in the lower half of QBs. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We've also faced I believe 4 of the top 10 offenses in the NFL.

 

 

And how did that go?

 

Against all the teams that are not the Jets, the D has given up an average of 30ppg (range 23-42).

[ngbills]

We like PFF if they are positive. They suck if they are negative. Sounds about right. 

 

Any of us that have watched the games can see the D is struggling. Both at stopping the run and getting QB pressure. There have been times the pressure has been there but it is in spurts. The run defense is clearly the weaker link. But who knows what PFF used to define pass rush win rate...

[Charles Romes]

Is this another “it’s all Edmunds’ fault” thread 

[Royale with Cheese]

29 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

And how did that go?

 

Against all the teams that are not the Jets, the D has given up an average of 30ppg (range 23-42).

 

Not very well.  Defenses will give up more points when they face better offenses so it was expected to decline.  I didn't think it would be this much so far.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Not very well.  Defenses will give up more points when they face better offenses so it was expected to decline.  I didn't think it would be this much so far.

 

Not the very good ones.

[Nextmanup]

Seems fishy to me.

 

🤔

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Not the very good ones.

 

So there isn't a very good defense in the NFL then.

[colin]

PFF blows, but this does kinda show that our D Scheme is a big "fragile".

 

the whole 1/11 concept would mean that you don't need individual outperformers to win matchups for the d to be effective, but in the case of our D, it kinda means if any of the 11 aren't up to the task, the the whole bottom falls out.

 

we've had good success overall, so im not about ditching it, but if we have 2 LBs on the roster who can play at all, it kinda sucks that the d goes to pot if either of them are hurt.  based on guys like klien coming in and just being useless, it also seems like the requirements of the d on certain positions is a bit much.

 

i remember back in the day, urlacher and ray lewis were the top two MLBs in the nfl.  lewis had more team success in the NFL, but honestly, i think urlacher could have done Lewis's job in baltimore, but no way lewis could have run and covered the middle like urlacher did in chicago.  not saying urlacher was a much (or at all) better player than ray, but if you have a requirement of positions that you don't have guys meet, it makes you wonder if some changes are needed.

 

in theory, we ask less of our corners than other teams, which i suppose means we can have a 7th round rookie come out and ball like we did vs the jets (yes, they suck, i know), but it's still nfl football and if a corner can't run w a guy he's toast.

 

anyhow, i hope they decide to get aggressive, we are just a better d playing that way and we aren't staffed or schemed to bottle teams up, we need to disrupt.

 

i heard a podcast (cover 1) where they had a pats beat guy on.  he said their LB, number 51, was too slow and cumbersome to be in space, so after getting exploited doing that by san fran, the pats just had 51 line up close and rush, more or less like a d lineman.  the genius of billicheat is that he gets guys who can do things he needs, and also changes up schemes to confuse the other team and generally avoids asking his guys to do something they aren't good at.  so you get patrick chung being a star for them when he's really not a fast guy playing safety, and he's not agile for the position either.

 

since we are more of a team scheme'd D, i don't think we have the flexibility that the pats do from a coaching standpoint, but i think if things aren't working you may as well err on the side of aggression, because you don't want the opponent to be comfortable.

.

here's to hoping we have it figured out now for the rest of the season.

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

per PFF
 

 

 

8. Jerry Hughes - 81.6
13. Mario Addison - 77.0
14. Trent Murphy - 76.9

 

 

Pass win rate top 5. Hughes number 1

 

 

1. Hughes 31.3%
2. T.J. Watt 30.3%
3. Grady Jarrett 28.2%
4. Brian Burns 28.1%
5. Myles Garrett 27.7%

 

other Bills in pass win rate 

 

 

 

45. Quinton Jefferson 14.6%
62. Ed Oliver 11.6%
67. Mario Addison 11.1%

 

This is curious because we learned in another post that the Bills were rated dead last in hurry percentage.  

 

Our DE's are winning their battles but not hurrying the QB.  Odd.  

[atlbillsfan1975]

I think the mods should make it mandatory that when a poster is using stats from PFF they share that info in the title. Save some of us time.

And I think the dline will be fine. I think PFF is garbage. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975

[billsfan89]

I am not seeing it from the Dline. Maybe a closer analysis makes things better but I have seen a lot of games of mediocre play. Yes against the Raiders second half and against the hapless Jets they got a good pass rush but for the most part the pass rush hasn't been there.