Ed Oliver vs Quinnen Williams

[MAJBobby]

Now all the Reasons I said for Bills to do it.

 

I will tell you why it wont happen at least THIS week.

 

Bills Play the Jets on Sunday.

 

If this inter-division trade it going to happen the watch starts on Monday

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Assuming he comes back, wouldnt shock me at all if he retires and if Covid is still raging, being his size,, and the amount he has made,  i certainly wouldnt blame him.

 

 

Doubtful........Beane quietly and regrettably gave him $7M more in guaranteed 2020 and 2021 salary this winter.

 

That's why he was so quick to take the opt out.

 

That's all the money he was ever going to see from the Bills so why deal with the covid season at all?.........asking for a paycut basically told him he was one and done.  

 

All he has to do is show up for camp next summer......flop around and look old....get cut and pocket that $7M.

 

[KOKBILLS]

27 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Adding Quinnen Williams doesn't really solve our problem.

 

The McDermott/Frasier defense needs a 1-Tech DT who can occupy blockers and command double-teams.  

- We had a decent one with Star Lotulelei, but he opted out at the end of July.  By that point, it was too late to focus on the position in free agency or the draft.

- The hope was that Harrison Phillips would be a seamless replacement.  But he has clearly not recovered from his ACL injury last year, and has struggled.

- The Vernon Butler signing was a one-year flyer, hoping to salvage the career of a former 1st Round Pick.  It has not worked out.

 

As of right now, the coaching staff has been forced to either play bad players (Phillips/Butler) in that position... or go with undersized guys (Oliver/Jefferson/Zimmer) who aren't good in that role and are getting run-over.  Williams would likely be adding to the latter.  It's the same reason I don't really think re-signing Jordan Phillips would be making much of a difference right now.  

 

I fully expect Brandon Beane to make a move for a DT at some point (honestly surprised it hasn't happened yet).  But I just don't see Williams being an option.

 

 

This is the correct take...

 

And thinking Butler, a blown up 5-tech, could be the answer even as a back-up at 1 or 0 was a big stretch...😎

[billsbackto81]

38 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Star opted out in July, should have been adequately addressed back then.   JMHO

Wait! I thought Harrison Phillips was the answer? From what I read here he was out playing and taking reps from Star before he got injured last season. Personally I wasn't crazy about the Star signing but only because I felt it was way too much but this D certainly misses his presence.

[JerseyBills]

4 minutes ago, colin said:

 

im in NJ too bro, Monmouth county.

 

Just a big body who can punch some people in the mouth is a big addition at this point.  phillips is too hurt to anchor, star is afraid of the big bad covid so's doing jack for us, oliver has a knee and he's not really a 1 tech anyhow.

 

if it could happen, i'd fire off the 2nd and get q in here and at the least keep the LBs clean for like 40% of our plays on D

Nice I'm in Passaic co. And Bergen Co.

Ya I wouldn't be against it at all. Plug him right in . Him and Oliver would be a handful. I'm sure Beane and Co are doing their due diligence as we speak. 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by JerseyBills

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

This is the correct take...

 

And thinking Butler, a blown up 5-tech, could be the answer even as a back-up at 1 or 0 was a big stretch...😎

Wont need a Space Eater with two Dominate DTs.  Not saying that would happen with Q and Oliver, but I think it would likely be more true than not true

[billsfan89]

14 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

I looked into him and I’m all on this train now. Syracuse.com and Buffalorumblings both have articles mentioning him as a target we should pursue. I’d rather give a 4th for him; as opposed to a 2nd for Q. 

 

I saw Buffalo Ramblings and that put him on my radar. I did some more looking into him and he seems like the prefect rental. Super Stout run defender big body guy that can clog and hold the middle. Super cheap on the cap and probably could be had for a 4th round pick. It just seems like a fit for both sides. I don't see any other help coming to the defense as there just doesn't seem to be a lot of elite pass rushers out there that the team could afford. 

[KOKBILLS]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

Wont need a Space Eater with two Dominate DTs.  Not saying that would happen with Q and Oliver, but I think it would likely be more true than not true

 

It would certainly be an improvement...I don't question that at all..

 

But it would not be necessary if they had properly addressed the nose when Star opted out IMHO...Now it seems obvious that QW would be worth giving up a 2nd Rd Pick...And I do think he's worth that...But that's due in great part to the situation we find the D-Line in because they over-valued Butler, and Harrison Phillips ability to come back 100%...IMHO at least...😎

[buffaloboyinATL]

If we could get Q Williams for a 3rd, it would be like Christmas morning. My guess is more likely the asking price would be a 2nd, plus, I highly doubt the Jets would want to trade him into their own division. Would love it, but I highly doubt it would happen.  

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

It would certainly be an improvement...I don't question that at all..

 

But it would not be necessary if they had properly addressed the nose when Star opted out IMHO...Now it seems obvious that QW would be worth giving up a 2nd Rd Pick...And I do think he's worth that...But that's due in great part to the situation we find the D-Line in because they over-valued Butler, and Harrison Phillips ability to come back 100%...IMHO at least...😎

OOO I agree, they dropped the Ball thinking Oliver could be the second coming of Aaron Darnold, and well that blew up in their faces.  I also think they looked at 2019 before Harrisons Injury (small sample size) and said OK he is fine there, we will be OK.  Now they are scrambling as it is evident Oliver is NOT Darnold (and likely never will be) and Harrison cannot do it (either INJ or talent related).  

 

[mjt328]

30 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Well with Covid coming up Beane et al should have been prepared for players opting out, this was a bad/risky year to spend so close to cap limits.  Is that 20/20, yes but it is also very pragmatic.

 

Free agency and the draft were held back in March/April.

At that point, nothing had been worked out regarding how the season was going to progress.  There was no such thing as a player "opting out" of the season until a few months later when the NFL and Players Association came up with that agreement.

 

And even if that wasn't the case, how exactly could Beane be "prepared" without knowing WHICH players were going to opt out?

There is only so much cap room/roster space.  You can't have a Plan C at every single position.

 

[ngbills]

To all the who could have expected Star to opt out...

 

They had plenty of time to adjust. Since July there have been plenty of DT signed by teams. 

They had plenty of money and could have signed someone.

Many had Star on a list of potential cuts.

This was not some shocking and unsolvable surprise. It is absurd to say they have no choice but play guys out of position. That is an excuse. They didnt think they needed to bring in anyone else. 

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

5 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Free agency and the draft were held back in March/April.

At that point, nothing had been worked out regarding how the season was going to progress.  There was no such thing as a player "opting out" of the season until a few months later when the NFL and Players Association came up with that agreement.

 

And even if that wasn't the case, how exactly could Beane be "prepared" without knowing WHICH players were going to opt out?

There is only so much cap room/roster space.  You can't have a Plan C at every single position.

 

 

It is known as flexibility, flexibility to be able to react to whatever happens.  I wrote, "this was a bad/risky year to spend so close to cap limits" and now we have highly limited flexibility.

4 minutes ago, ngbills said:

To all the who could have expected Star to opt out...

 

They had plenty of time to adjust. Since July there have been plenty of DT signed by teams. 

They had plenty of money and could have signed someone.

Many had Star on a list of potential cuts.

This was not some shocking and unsolvable surprise. It is absurd to say they have no choice but play guys out of position. That is an excuse. They didnt think they needed to bring in anyone else. 

 

 

 

Amen!

Edited October 22, 2020 by RoyBatty is alive

[mjt328]

38 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

They should have gone after someone else besides Butler. I just don't understand what the Butler signing was about. They signed Addision and Jefferson to replace Phillips and Shaq and honestly Addision and Jefferson have been mostly what we thought they would be. But why sign Butler if you think Star is playing? At that point you have Oliver and Jefferson as the pass rushers and Star and Harry as the bigger guys. You could have spent that 7ish million on another depth piece or rolled it over. It just was such an odd choice to add an expensive 5th DT. 

 

Unless you felt concerned about Star opting out and signed Butler as insurance. In that case you just wiffed and should have signed a more pure run stuffer.

 

Vernon Butler was the 30th overall pick by the Panthers, while Brandon Beane was the assistant GM for Carolina and Sean McDermott was the DC.

It's pretty clear that our front office believed his disappointing career could be salvaged in a new environment. 

 

I'm sure there were also some concerns that Harrison Phillips would recover fully from his ACL injury, and wanted to make sure they had a solid rotation behind Star Lotulelei just in case he struggled.  

 

The problem is... Plan A, B and C all went down the drain.

 

[BillsFanForever19]

No way they'd trade an impact player to a division rival. Only way that's possibly happening is if they have no other options, we're offering substantially more than anyone else, and/or Williams makes it known if he's cut he's coming here anyways. All of these seem pretty unlikely to me. 

[Billl]

27 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Now all the Reasons I said for Bills to do it.

 

I will tell you why it wont happen at least THIS week.

 

Bills Play the Jets on Sunday.

 

If this inter-division trade it going to happen the watch starts on Monday

You think the Jets are afraid of losing the game because of the trade?  They’re in tank mode.  They WANT to lose.  He’s easily worth a second round pick, and he’s a significantly better player than EO.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

No way they'd trade an impact player to a division rival. Only way that's possibly happening is if they have no other options, we're offering substantially more than anyone else, and/or Williams makes it known if he's cut he's coming here anyways. All of these seem pretty unlikely to me. 

This doesnt matter as much as Fans think.  Bills offered up the Second Monday...  Q. WIlliams is a Bill

1 minute ago, Billl said:

You think the Jets are afraid of losing the game because of the trade?  They’re in tank mode.  They WANT to lose.  He’s easily worth a second round pick, and he’s a significantly better player than EO.

No I think it is OPTICS from the GM.  

 

The Trade would not effect the game one bit, but there is the Optics lane that the GM is currently dealing with.

[mjt328]

11 minutes ago, ngbills said:

To all the who could have expected Star to opt out...

 

They had plenty of time to adjust. Since July there have been plenty of DT signed by teams. 

They had plenty of money and could have signed someone.

Many had Star on a list of potential cuts.

This was not some shocking and unsolvable surprise. It is absurd to say they have no choice but play guys out of position. That is an excuse. They didnt think they needed to bring in anyone else. 

 

 

Fair argument.  They certainly could have signed someone.  Just like they could still sign someone today or tomorrow.

 

My point is that prior to Free Agency/Draft, it's easier for a GM to come up with a solid plan to replace a position.  Once those dates have passed, the options are usually not great.  Just because some DTs have been signed elsewhere, doesn't mean they would have been a good move for us.

 

I agree with you, that Beane believed either Harrison Phillips or Vernon Butler could fill the void.  And he was wrong about that.  

Either way, the Bills are still 4-2 and could still sign someone to fix the hole at DT.

 

[KOKBILLS]

22 minutes ago, ngbills said:

To all the who could have expected Star to opt out...

 

They had plenty of time to adjust. Since July there have been plenty of DT signed by teams. 

They had plenty of money and could have signed someone.

Many had Star on a list of potential cuts.

This was not some shocking and unsolvable surprise. It is absurd to say they have no choice but play guys out of position. That is an excuse. They didnt think they needed to bring in anyone else. 

 

 

 

Agreed...

 

And I know hindsight is always 20/20...But it's what we do...And it's pretty clear now IMHO...

 

Like Star or not he was brought in and given a boat load of money for a VERY specific reason. And while he certainly was not perfect, he did anchor one of the better Defenses in the league. And once he opted out that should have sent up some major red flags in this front office...They quite literally had no one that could stand up at the 0 or 1 and that is a BIG, big problem...Not saying there were any magic answers...But standing pat was definitely not the move either.😎

Edited October 22, 2020 by KOKBILLS

[BuffBillsForLife]

The fact that the Bills failed to find another big fat space eater 1 tech to replace Star after he opted out is a black mark.  Philips was never going to be able to play full speed coming off that ACL this year and Oliver is too small for the role.  There should be several of these guys floating around on practice squads like Snacks is in Seattle.  They don't have to be able to rush the passer, DTs who can do that aren't on practice squads, but help in the middle would definitely help our DEs get home.

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

The fact that the Bills failed to find another big fat space eater 1 tech to replace Star after he opted out is a black mark.  Philips was never going to be able to play full speed coming off that ACL this year and Oliver is too small for the role.  There should be several of these guys floating around on practice squads like Snacks is in Seattle.  They don't have to be able to rush the passer, DTs who can do that aren't on practice squads, but help in the middle would definitely help our DEs get home.

Cant have answers for Everything.  They thought Oliver and Phillips could hold the fort down with the additions.  At this point they guessed wrong.  Cannot kill them for that, it is not like going into the season with Trent Edwards as your starting QB

[whatdrought]

41 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I saw Buffalo Ramblings and that put him on my radar. I did some more looking into him and he seems like the prefect rental. Super Stout run defender big body guy that can clog and hold the middle. Super cheap on the cap and probably could be had for a 4th round pick. It just seems like a fit for both sides. I don't see any other help coming to the defense as there just doesn't seem to be a lot of elite pass rushers out there that the team could afford. 

I would be glad to send them a 4th or 5th. I could even see ya re-signing him next year as that role will still need filling and Star will be a year older and coming off a year of not playing scares me with a big guy like that. 

[Wayne Cubed]

8 minutes ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

The fact that the Bills failed to find another big fat space eater 1 tech to replace Star after he opted out is a black mark.  Philips was never going to be able to play full speed coming off that ACL this year and Oliver is too small for the role.  There should be several of these guys floating around on practice squads like Snacks is in Seattle.  They don't have to be able to rush the passer, DTs who can do that aren't on practice squads, but help in the middle would definitely help our DEs get home.

 

The problem is, it's not like they are finding a replacement for Star, as in Star hasn't really left. Star is still on the Bills and his contract is on the books. They can't just go throwing huge money at other DTs as you've already got money tied up in a player who will be back.  So they have been forced to look cheap, I think that was the plan with Taylor and they were going to try to sneak him onto the practice squad, which failed. 

 

I think at this point they can only look for cheap DTs at this point. There's no way they could sign or trade for a high price DT.

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, PaattMaann said:

 

Or....they are in a bind and trying to do their best with what they have? Oliver would be thriving as the 3-tech, what he was drafted for. That isnt on Beane for drafting him or Coaches for not developing him there - because he isnt playing there. How could they plan for Star opting out and forcing him to play there? 

 

they needed to play for star to not be available.  injuries happen.  

10 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

The problem is, it's not like they are finding a replacement for Star, as in Star hasn't really left. Star is still on the Bills and his contract is on the books. They can't just go throwing huge money at other DTs as you've already got money tied up in a player who will be back.  So they have been forced to look cheap, I think that was the plan with Taylor and they were going to try to sneak him onto the practice squad, which failed. 

 

I think at this point they can only look for cheap DTs at this point. There's no way they could sign or trade for a high price DT.

 

they could, and cut Murphy. 

[Brennan Huff]

Ed Oliver rides horses so that’s kinda neat. Besides that he hasn’t brought anything to the table. Sucks being compared to Aaron Donald on draft day...

[Wayne Cubed]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

they needed to play for star to not be available.  injuries happen.  

 

they could, and cut Murphy. 

 

I don't think it's about finding the money, it's more about committing more money to the DT position. So really they would be looking for a young/cheap or someone willing to play on a 1-year veteran contract.

[Kwai San]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Well with Covid coming up Beane et al should have been prepared for players opting out, this was a bad/risky year to spend so close to cap limits.  Is that 20/20, yes but it is also very pragmatic.

 

VERY 20/20 and what Crystal Ball would Beane have been gazing into?  The one where Tre White almost didn't play this year?  The one where "someone" else mighta coulda maybe mighta not played.......thats a no win situation there that no one can predict......what position would he have beefed up?  Not attacking you just trying to figger out what without the ability of hind site would he have acted on?  Whom would he have poached and where from?  Need a real good fortune teller for that one.....

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Now all the Reasons I said for Bills to do it.

 

I will tell you why it wont happen at least THIS week.

 

Bills Play the Jets on Sunday.

 

If this inter-division trade it going to happen the watch starts on Monday

If the Bills want him and are prepared to offer more than the rest of the market for him, and  Jets are prepared to trade him to a Division rival, do the deal this week and have the Jets sit him this weekend and release him Monday...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Cage match? 

[HappyDays]

Oliver is playing on a knee injury. Before that he was showing progress. I'm not worried about him yet.

[Kwai San]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

If the Bills want him and are prepared to offer more than the rest of the market for him, and  Jets are prepared to trade him to a Division rival, do the deal this week and have the Jets sit him this weekend and release him Monday...

 

Wouldn't he have to do the covid sitout for x amount of days anyways???

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, Kwai San said:

 

Wouldn't he have to do the covid sitout for x amount of days anyways???

5 days I believe so perhaps he misses the game this weekend anyway... assume this is what you are saying?

[Kwai San]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

5 days I believe so perhaps he misses the game this weekend anyway... assume this is what you are saying?

 

Yeah that didn't come out right - thanks man!

[Chuck Wagon]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

 

it depends where is home residence is which might be alabama where he's from. if that's the case he pays their tax rate. especially with covid this year i'd imagine he stayed down their for most of the year. 

 

 

You pay tax where you work.  NFL players have to file tax returns in ~9 different states.  Cowboys players have complained in the past, Texas has no state income tax but their training camp in Oxnard required them to pay California income tax.

[Billzgobowlin]

I personally think the dline has regressed with the new dline coach this year. 

[kota]

Things changed once Star opted out.  You all cried about his salary.  Dude was worth every penny.

[gjv001]

If the Bills can obtain Williams for a 2nd round draft pick, I'd say make that trade. I doubt there is as talented a DT that will be available to the Bills when they select in the 2nd round.

[RoyBatty is alive]

37 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

 

VERY 20/20 and what Crystal Ball would Beane have been gazing into?  The one where Tre White almost didn't play this year?  The one where "someone" else mighta coulda maybe mighta not played.......thats a no win situation there that no one can predict......what position would he have beefed up?  Not attacking you just trying to figger out what without the ability of hind site would he have acted on?  Whom would he have poached and where from?  Need a real good fortune teller for that one.....

No crystal ball necessary, it is called being prepared which mean you remain flexible and can react which means you dont spend up close to the cap limit, now we have very limited flexibility.  We all knew someone would opt out and/or get sick.

30 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

I personally think the dline has regressed with the new dline coach this year. 

 You mean yet another ex-=Carolina Panther?

[Penfield45]

He’s playing in the wrong scheme 

 

along with Edmunds and half of our defense 

[Aussie Joe]

56 minutes ago, kota said:

Things changed once Star opted out.  You all cried about his salary.  Dude was worth every penny.

Well ... he agreed to take a pay cut so even he must have thought he was overpaid..