Lack of RB Production is limiting this Team

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Allen is our goal line back.  It’s like Cam. 

I agree, but even Cam got good production from Stewart, Williams, and eventually McAffrey.  

[klos63]

8 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

How much better could be we be if the RBs produced more; that's my point?

The game plan was to throw, in part because the Jets have a weak secondary and a strong run defense. It's one game, jesus. If not for fumbles, we put up 40.

[Royale with Cheese]

33 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You are the only one who keeps bringing up Dobbins.

 

And you are missing the point. Never once did I say Singletary/Moss CANT break one. My point is it's not likely given their lack of speed on the field. 

 

Simple question, who has a better chance to break a big run, a fast RB with good vision or a slow RB with good vision? 

 

Don't try to skirt it Scott...you've complained about not drafting Dobbins multiple times.  That's why I'm bringing him up in this conversation.

 

You know what else isn't a given?  Breaking big runs to the house.  How many times does it happen in a season with a good RB?  1?  Maybe 2?

I want the better running back who can consistently get above 4 ypc and help move the chains.  

 

Did you really just ask me a question with one option having 2 positives and the other having 1 positive and 1 negative?

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They clearly prefer bruising backs ala Mike Tolbert.

 

It's just my opinion that a back with some speed to spell Singletary would be a nice change of pace and give the offense another dynamic out of the back field. This ***** is football not rocket science.

 

 

Well maybe, just maybe, that fits the style they are looking for where they CLEARLY keep bringing in guys like that?

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, klos63 said:

The game plan was to throw, in part because the Jets have a weak secondary and a strong run defense. It's one game, jesus. If not for fumbles, we put up 40.

Dude, for the 100th time, I’m not focusing on Sunday; read the original post for context.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

13 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

I agree, but even Cam got good production from Stewart, Williams, and eventually McAffrey.  

The Panthers were completely one dimensional last year because McCaffrey became the offensive crutch. 
 

Their QB used him as a dump off option constantly and he dominated touches. Everyone else stagnated offensively. They stopped trying to push the ball down the field. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Straight Hucklebuck

[klos63]

2 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Dude, for the 100th time, I’m not focusing on Sunday; read the original post for context.

 

2 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Dude, for the 100th time, I’m not focusing on Sunday; read the original post for context.

You should focus on Sunday, because the last few seasons are irrelevant to this years team.

[Penfield45]

don't think so. we were fine running the ball last season. we just need to work on short yardage plays. 

 

throwing the football is where we are bottom of the league almost every single season, that needs to change 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, klos63 said:

 

You should focus on Sunday, because the last few seasons are irrelevant to this years team.

I’ll be sure to revisit this after this year to see if we have improved, but the I believe the point of the thread is valid and merits discussion.

[Victory Formation]

8 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

I think that number is low because of Allen. 18 rushing touchdowns to this point of his career. If you add those into the totals, it looks stronger. 

Problem is it’s always Allen doing the dirty work.. I can stomach that some of the time but not all of the time.

[TwistofFate]

Lack of big running plays has a lot to do with the fact we haven't had a consistent passing game the last 2 years.  If you are stacking the box and daring a Qb to throw to beat you, unless that Qb beats you, your defense will close up most of the running lanes in a hurry.

 

Open up the passing game, where it becomes respectable, and defenses will no longer be able cheat down in the box.  Not being able to cheat is going to naturally free up space in which a Rb can be much more shifty, meet more 1 on 1 opportunities, and produce explosive runs.

 

We all know where our passing offense ranked the last two years....if we can move into middle of the pack I believe we will start seeing a lot more big runs be ripped off.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just now, TwistofFate said:

Lack of big running plays has a lot to do with the fact we haven't had a consistent passing game the last 2 years.  If you are stacking the box and daring a Qb to throw to beat you, unless that Qb beats you, your defense will close up most of the running lanes in a hurry.

 

Open up the passing game, where it becomes respectable, and defenses will no longer be able cheat down in the box.  Not being able to cheat is going to naturally free up space in which a Rb can be much more shifty, meet more 1 on 1 opportunities, and produce explosive runs.

 

We all know where our passing offense ranked the last two years....if we can move into middle of the pack I believe we will start seeing a lot more big runs be ripped off.

I agree, but I still believe we can get more TD production from the RBs.  

[TwistofFate]

1 minute ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

I agree, but I still believe we can get more TD production from the RBs.  

 

We will, once we can pass more consistently.  Allen does eat up a ton of TDs in the redzone by himself too though.  Those touches would normally go to a RB.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, TwistofFate said:

 

We will, once we can pass more consistently.  Allen does eat up a ton of TDs in the redzone by himself too though.  Those touches would normally go to a RB.

True, but as I stated earlier, the majority of Allen’s rushing TDs are from broken plays and improvising compared to designed runs.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I certainly preferred Dobbins to Moss. 

 

Moss looked slow to hit the hole on Sunday. 1 maybe 2? I guess you missed Derrick Henry last season.😅

 

 

 

https://www.nfl.com/players/derrick-henry/stats/career

 

Derrick Henry had 3 runs of 40+ yards in 2019, 2 in 2018, 2 in 2017 and zero in 2016.  So what's his 3 year average?  That would be 1.75 per year.

 

[krf139]

For all the Moss love on this board,  he looked extremely slow and hesitant.  I get it's game #1 against a good defensive front, but not what I expected.

[buffaloboyinATL]

My understanding is that Tasker stated on the  radio that our game plan was to not expose our running game against the Jets because we knew we could beat them through the air. Makes sense to me. We did not seem to focus on the running game much last week. 

[JaCrispy]

8 minutes ago, krf139 said:

For all the Moss love on this board,  he looked extremely slow and hesitant.  I get it's game #1 against a good defensive front, but not what I expected.

It’s definitely going to take a few games for him to adjust to NFL game speed...I’m not worried...he had a good run where he looked very strong...

[HappyDays]

I'm torn on this discussion. On one hand it would be nice to have some semblance of a running attack outside of Josh Allen. It would give our offense some balance. On the other hand it's a lot easier to build a consistent passing attack across multiple seasons than a consistent running attack. Greg Roman might be the only coach in the league that can do it every year. So I'm okay sacrificing some running ability from my RBs in exchange for good pass protection and pass catching. Moss didn't run very well but he had good pass protection and his TD catch was a veteran play - he followed Allen as he scrambled and settled into an open spot in the endzone.

 

It's mind boggling that people are complaining we didn't draft a RB in the 2nd round. That isn't where the league is heading. RBs can be drafted in the mid rounds. I love that we have an offense built to pass first. I am okay with the entire offense, rushes included, running through Josh Allen. That's how you win football games in 2020.

Edited September 16, 2020 by HappyDays

[TigerJ]

Buffalo made a strategic decision to focus on pass offense on Sunday because the Jets' strength on defense is against the run.  Devin Singletary had a few decent runs, but Moss was usually met in the backfield, not even getting a chance to build any forward momentum.  I'm not qualified to analyze video, so I don't try.  I assume the reason for Moss's ineffectiveness was mostly a mix of the Bills' blocking and the Jets sending more guys than Buffalo had blockers, not a lack of ability by Moss.  Singletary's YPC was nothing to write home about either.

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Again, this has nothing to do with Sunday.  But many of the drives are not ending in TDs, but in FG attempts and I believe the lack of RB contribution contributes to this.  We can disagree, no problem.

?

 

We scored 27 points and should have scored more.....

 

This really is a different biult offense then in previous years......I would just grab a beer and chill out for a few games

Edited September 16, 2020 by John from Riverside

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

True, but as I stated earlier, the majority of Allen’s rushing TDs are from broken plays and improvising compared to designed runs.

 

that isn't true. Most of his rushing TD are designed keepers or sneaks.

[Royale with Cheese]

9 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

True, but as I stated earlier, the majority of Allen’s rushing TDs are from broken plays and improvising compared to designed runs.

They’re designed runs.  I would say 90% of his rushing TD’s are designed runs.

[purple haze]

18 hours ago, NewEra said:

Or, a back who could potentially take it to the house on every touch would be a perfect complement to moss.....

This caliber of back is rare... They need not only speed, but vision, elusiveness and balance.  And a damn good offensive line.  Most backs ain’t breaking 50+ yard TD’s regularly.   More backs will break 30 yards and in.  Singletary and Moss can do that.

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by purple haze

[PaattMaann]

17 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

But he specifically mentions the past 2 seasons. Then after the game against the Jets our RBs had 41 yards total... He is simply stating things have to change.

 

I agree, yeah it’s only one game. But if this team doesn’t start improving our offense will be held back. Teams I’d bet focus solely on Josh and our passing game.

 

The only reason the Titans are good is because they can run the ball. 
 

I’ll give it time, but the run game looked bad on Sunday 

 

I don't care what he mentions, his thread title is referring to our current team, hence why I thought this thread was a joke.

 

Our current team has 1 game played. and we went against one of the best rushing D's in the NFL. Our gameplan was for lots of QB runs because they have struggled with that/its what the film showed/its another way to get the ground game going against a great run D. The Jets secondary is very weak so the gameplan called for Josh to throw all day, which we did with ease. 

 

This thread would have merit, in about a month or more when we actually see if "our lack of RB production is holding us back" haha

[Buffalo Junction]

17 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

How far were the 28 TD runs for the Ravens? A team know for strong O line play. A team that has blown opponents away with a balanced O. Who are their fast RB’s? 
 

With respect to hand off timing the Bills ran option so that’s how it works. Based on last years performance Singletary is a solid RB with an over 5 yard per carry average. 
 

Let’s discuss Bills woeful running game after 8 games. I’m guessing you won’t be talking about it. It’s an Allen led O ! Nobody in GB is worried about their RB play. The Bills will run when it’s the best option. Each game is its own entity. Let it play out. Just my thoughts. 

I would hope not. Aaron Jones had 16 TDs and averaged 4.6 y/c last year.

[BillsFanSD]

The Bills had no problem running the football last year.  Our OL is marginally better this year, our backfield is younger, and we have a scarier passing game that defenses have to account for.  I'm not at all worried about this part of the team.

[Don Otreply]

Aldo, the 2018 team had virtually no O line, or receiving threats, and almost zero QBs that were ready to start. Can you say “the results of the strip down of a rebuild” no surprises there.  
 

The 2019 team was actually a real team, but with obvious flaws, yet made the playoffs, this season the team is much better all around, and has played all of one game, and running the ball was not the game plan for that game. 
 

So with the history and reasons well known the past poor performance is explained. Our running game last season was ranked 8th league wide iirc?  
 

Now going forward, if the running game is not improved there is then something to talk about.  I would say that it matters more that the points are scored than who is scoring them, resulting in wins of course.  We are going to be okay when it comes to our RB room carrying its weight this season. I think that game plans for given opponents will change the emphasis as to which group will do the scoring from game to game. I do believe that Singletary and Moss will

be more of the emphasis in Miami. 
 

Go Bills!!!
 

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Aldo, the 2018 team had virtually no O line, or receiving threats, and almost zero QBs that were ready to start. Can you say “the results of the strip down of a rebuild” no surprises there.  
 

The 2019 team was actually a real team, but with obvious flaws, yet made the playoffs, this season the team is much better all around, and has played all of one game, and running the ball was not the game plan for that game. 
 

So with the history and reasons well known the past poor performance is explained. Our running game last season was ranked 8th league wide iirc?  
 

Now going forward, if the running game is not improved there is then something to talk about.  I would say that it matters more that the points are scored than who is scoring them, resulting in wins of course.  We are going to be okay when it comes to our RB room carrying its weight this season. I think that game plans for given opponents will change the emphasis as to which group will do the scoring from game to game. I do believe that Singletary and Moss will

be more of the emphasis in Miami. 
 

Go Bills!!!
 

 

 

Fair enough.  I think it was a worthy discussion and a lot of valid points supporting and to chill.  Let's see how this year goes.

[Don Otreply]

16 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Fair enough.  I think it was a worthy discussion and a lot of valid points supporting and to chill.  Let's see how this year goes.

I do believe that your thoughts on having a more stout run game is absolutely essential to the teams future success, I feel that the progression to get there has not been smooth over the last three seasons. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[CBennett]

Our RB are fine. Id rather step into the 2000's and have a decent passing game VS a elite running game....now look..I get sometimes you have to run, it helps the offense as a whole as another "threat" to plan for ...and its nice to have..and unlike the OP I think the running game is fine...is it their bread and butter anymore???? no....am I good with that 100% YES. it just needs to be complimentary and viable...I dont care anymore if its "elite" or that you have a top 5 back in the game anymore...I dont need that. 

 

And do I think our RB are good enough to be a nice compliment to a good passing game? YES. We are just not ground and pound anymore and in that I am HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jauronimo]

13 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

I agree, but I still believe we can get more TD production from the RBs.  

More TD production from the RBs would be mean less goal line scores for Josh.  That doesn't put more points on the board.   

 

If you take $20 out of your left pocket and deposit it in your right pocket you don't have $40.  

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

More TD production from the RBs would be mean less goal line scores for Josh.  That doesn't put more points on the board.   

 

If you take $20 out of your left pocket and deposit it in your right pocket you don't have $40.  

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

Wouldnt we all agree that the Bills should be putting up more points overall than they have in the past couple of seasons?

That means finishing more drives, getting more possessions, etc.

 

It's not unreasonable to think those additional TDs could/should come from the RBs considering our QB already scores a bunch himself, and the WRs are pretty much on league average.

 

If we're adding even just 1 more TD per game, 16 overall for the season, I'd think at least 8 of those could be from the RBs.

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by DrDawkinstein

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

Wouldnt we all agree that the Bills should be putting up more points overall than they have in the past couple of seasons?

That means finishing more drives, getting more possessions, etc.

 

It's not unreasonable to think those additional TDs could/should come from the RBs considering our QB scores a bunch himself, and the WRs are pretty much on league average.

 

The Bills were ok in red zone efficiency last year.  They were abysmal in red zone trips.  If I were offensive coordinator of the Bills and I wanted to make RB touchdowns the goal of my offense for special reasons, my first priority would be to upgrade one of the worst passing attacks in the NFL so my RBs would have more chances to carry the ball in scoring position.  

 

This isn't rocket science.  Look at the median distance of touchdown runs in the NFL.  Its as you might guess, under 10 yards.  So how do you score more rushing touchdowns? Get the ball inside the 10 or better yet, inside the 3 yard line. Well you can't do that when you're 26th in the league in getting the ball inside the 20 yard line on a per game basis.   

 

https://www.footballperspective.com/median-length-of-rushing-touchdown-2017/

[Mr. K]

22 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

It has now been 37 games since the start of the 2018 season, and we have a grand total of 8 rushing TDs by our RBs (4 in 2018, 4 in 2019, and 0 so far in 2020).  That is slightly less than 1 for every 4 games (1:4) and to me that is unsatisfactory, even if the QB averages 1 every two games (1:2).   Hopefully Moss can help with that, but the lack of RB production is really holding this team back to a certain degree in my opinion.  Additionally, TDs withstanding, do opposing defenses really fear our running game?  This kind of goes back to some poster's thoughts on constantly running RPOs instead of some more designed leads, counters, etc.  I think Dabol really needs to figure this out.  Thoughts?

If the run game sucked during the drought and it wasnt the drought because they made the playoffs I could not care less. That being said, the run game will work itself out. Points over rushing stats every day. I would love to see Moss & Motor get higher quality touches and bust some big runs but as long as this team wins im not talking negative about anything other than penalties or JA turnovers.

[dave mcbride]

23 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

It has now been 37 games since the start of the 2018 season, and we have a grand total of 8 rushing TDs by our RBs (4 in 2018, 4 in 2019, and 0 so far in 2020).  That is slightly less than 1 for every 4 games (1:4) and to me that is unsatisfactory, even if the QB averages 1 every two games (1:2).   Hopefully Moss can help with that, but the lack of RB production is really holding this team back to a certain degree in my opinion.  Additionally, TDs withstanding, do opposing defenses really fear our running game?  This kind of goes back to some poster's thoughts on constantly running RPOs instead of some more designed leads, counters, etc.  I think Dabol really needs to figure this out.  Thoughts?

The Jets run defense was second best in the league last year as measured by DVOA. They are good at shutting down the run. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/team-defense/2019

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Jets run defense was second best in the league last year as measured by DVOA. They are good at shutting down the run. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/team-defense/2019

 

Got ya; thanks.  I was looking at a more holistic view over the past two years going into this year (hence the 37 games part).  We'll see how this year goes.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Update:  It has now been 42 games since the start of the 2018 season, and we have a grand total of 9 rushing TDs by our RBs (4 in 2018, 4 in 2019, and 1 so far in 2020).

 

Just thought I would bring this up again since we have only four rushing TDs this year and Allen has three of them.  While yesterday was one of the better running games, still wasn't exactly great.  Our rushing attack is struggling to beat four down lineman which allows the defense to sit in all these cover zones.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Big Blitz]

An oline we thought would be better due to continuity has been worse then last year in the run game.  

 

3 reasons:

 

1. The continuity is gone.  No Spain.  Feliciano out.  Ford to Guard then Left Guard.  Winters is so freaking bad.  Williams is meh.  

 

2.  Offensive philosophy.  More weapons and spread it out.  Turn Allen loose and use him to do....everything.  Especially inside the 10.

 

3. TEs are not good blockers.  

 

This absolutely has to be addressed because you cannot win in Buffalo in late fall (which is the first week of November) let alone thru January without an oline and running game to take the pressure off the QB in often windy conditions.  And keep the D honest.  The best Bills teams ever could run the ball to compliment the pass.

 

I think Singletary is a very good player.  Moss will be.  Problem is the line.  Its Morse and Dawkins right now.  Hopefully Feliciano helps turn it around.

 

[Freddie's Dead]

Marcus Murphy is available.  He was last on the Carolina PS, so git 'r' dunnnn...  Come home, Charlie Murphy!!!

[Don Otreply]

On 9/15/2020 at 1:17 PM, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

How much better could be we be if the RBs produced more; that's my point?

Add in Allen’s TD runs, 

It doesn’t matter who scores the running TDs, RB or QB, as long as they are being scored, the real number is every  running TD scored regardless of who does the running.