Melvin Ingram III trade scenarios - Bills mentioned

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

Don’t fall into that trap.  There are good players and good depth on that OL.  Our DL is a friggin’ beast.

I’ll believe it when I see it. I wasn’t a fan of their play last year. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

He is a DE in the Bills defense. I'd have no issue moving Nsekhe for him.  At 31 he would still be effective and a year younger than Addison(which this board loves).  If they made this deal, then you cut Murphy and you have three good edge players in Hughes, Addison, and Ingram with Epenesa learning on the job.  I like it. 

No matter what they do this year, getting younger at DE will be a priority next off-season.  Look for another one or two edge players in the first three rounds.  

[Chuck Wagon]

Just stop messing around and get Ngakoue

[DCbillsfan]

They signed Addison as their fill in for DE.  They drafted Epenesa and I wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a DE in April.  I believe Bills want to get younger at DE.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

He is a DE in the Bills defense. I'd have no issue moving Nsekhe for him.  At 31 he would still be effective and a year younger than Addison(which this board loves).  If they made this deal, then you cut Murphy and you have three good edge players in Hughes, Addison, and Ingram with Epenesa learning on the job.  I like it. 

No matter what they do this year, getting younger at DE will be a priority next off-season.  Look for another one or two edge players in the first three rounds.  

And once Dawkins or Ford goes down, so does Josh. 

[Orlando Tim]

He is older and less productive than I thought he was. He is also an outside linebacker who want to be paid. I don't want him and would be shocked if Bills pull the trigger.

[Mike in Horseheads]

I'd rather not trade for a guy thats 31 looking for a new contract and instead stick with the process. Draft well and reward your own. Dawkins is resigned, now get Milano and Tre done.  Josh and edmunds next.

[Sherlock Holmes]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

No more 30 plus edge players FFS.

You're right trade, for Bosa instead!!

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

41 minutes ago, NewEra said:

And once Dawkins or Ford goes down, so does Josh. 

Dawkins has a issue with speed rushers so I expect Josh to be on his ass or pressured anyway. 

[first_and_ten]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Just stop messing around and get Ngakoue

 

What do you propose the offer should be for Ngakoue? He cannot be signed to a long term contract. Do they trade a first round pick or more for a possible one year and out player?

[NewEra]

46 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Dawkins has a issue with speed rushers so I expect Josh to be on his ass or pressured anyway. 

As does ford.  
 

after reading everyone’s projections, it seems like our only problems are kickers and Josh Allen taking another step.  I disagree. The OL is a question mark imo.  The right side is a complete questions mark. Morse was ok, but still has several concussions in his past.  Dawkins and Spain are our “Sure things”.  They’re alright.  Not much better than that and susceptible to getting beat.  If one goes down and we don’t have Nsekhe. It’ll be ugly for our boy Josh 

[Putin]

15 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

How does making the O line group weaker benefit the Bills? If anything we need more/ better O line help, not less, it’s a silly idea. 

I agree with ^^^ 100% !!!

What happens if God forbid Dion Dawkins has to miss a game or few ( for what ever the reason) ? 
I believe our D is good / great especially with the additions that have been made to our DL .

All eyes ( this year ) will be on Josh and our offense to score more then 19 points/game, so for that reason it’s an EASY NO to trade that involves us giving up OL help ...

 

[eball]

8 hours ago, NewEra said:

As does ford.  
 

after reading everyone’s projections, it seems like our only problems are kickers and Josh Allen taking another step.  I disagree. The OL is a question mark imo.  The right side is a complete questions mark. Morse was ok, but still has several concussions in his past.  Dawkins and Spain are our “Sure things”.  They’re alright.  Not much better than that and susceptible to getting beat.  If one goes down and we don’t have Nsekhe. It’ll be ugly for our boy Josh 

 

I’ll posit that every team’s OL is something of a “house of cards.”  The Bills are in better shape than most and have arguably eight O-linemen who are starting caliber right now: Dawkins, Spain, Morse, Winters, Ford, Nsekhe, Feliciano (when he comes back), and Williams.  They then have a few more who appear to be on the upswing:  Boehm, Boettger, Bates.  That’s unbelievable depth.

 

I’ll get slammed for being a “homer” again but I am not “worried” about Josh’s health behind this line.

[BillnutinHouston]

The news of the Bills having him on their radar is likely agent-driven.

[BobChalmers]

OL is the weakest position on this team.  Josh Allen had the worst pass protection of any QB in Houston since David Carr played there.

 

+The Bills have too many good DL as it is. 

 

NO

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Than RT? He doesn't. Not at the NFL level at least. He started 10 games in 2016 and all 16 games in 2017 (when he was a 2nd team all pro) at right tackle. He missed 2018 and played all over the place in 2019. 

 

I meant more experience at RG than Nsekhe. Which for like a depth role is kinda nice.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, eball said:

 

I’ll posit that every team’s OL is something of a “house of cards.”  The Bills are in better shape than most and have arguably eight O-linemen who are starting caliber right now: Dawkins, Spain, Morse, Winters, Ford, Nsekhe, Feliciano (when he comes back), and Williams.  They then have a few more who appear to be on the upswing:  Boehm, Boettger, Bates.  That’s unbelievable depth.

 

I’ll get slammed for being a “homer” again but I am not “worried” about Josh’s health behind this line.

Idk man.  Compared to 2018, our 2019 OL looked fine.  
 

Dawkins, Spain, Morse and Nsekhe are “starting caliber” imo.  That doesn’t mean that they’re good per say.  We’re hoping Ford is starting caliber.  He wasn’t as a rookie. Torn Pecs are no joke, I don’t foresee Mongo doing much this year.  The JETS cut Winters.  The Jets OL was terrible.  Williams was one of the worst graded guards in the league last year after being forced to play inside.  He’s a massive man with bad knees. His best days seem to be way behind him.  Boehm, Boettger and Bates are unknowns that we hope will be good depth....but we really don’t know 
 

my point:  Josh needs all the help he can get In order to make that next step.  While we’ve made some improvements along the OL, it’s not what I would call good.  Can he make the step with an average OL with solid depth?  Maybe.  He has a much better shot with a good OL and trading away our best depth OL for a 31 year old pass rusher looking to get paid isn’t a smart move at this point in time.

[eball]

@NewEra we'll see.  I have higher hopes for these guys than you do.  I also don't think Josh needs anything more than he got last year from the OL...his weapons are that much better and he's a year older.

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

@NewEra we'll see.  I have higher hopes for these guys than you do.  I also don't think Josh needs anything more than he got last year from the OL...his weapons are that much better and he's a year older.

I hear ya.  I hope you’re right and this group is good enough.  
 

I just see the end of the 2nd patriot game from last season being replayed in my head over and over.

[Chandler#81]

With a significant reduction in cap expected, I don’t see us adding a big dollar FA until next season -if at all. Tre, Milano, Edmunds & Allen top the list, but there are others looking for their 2nd contract. Even with Oliver & Harry, is there another team with more geriatrics on the DL? 

 

We have a distinct advantage over most teams by returning a full coaching staff and most of the roster. 

We dance with who we brung.

[GreggTX]

I would think they'd be better off finding out what we have in AJ Epenesa before trading for a guy to take over his position. After all, he WAS a 2nd round pick. If he were a 25 year old all pro, than OK.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

12 hours ago, BobChalmers said:

OL is the weakest position on this team.  Josh Allen had the worst pass protection of any QB in Houston since David Carr played there.

 

+The Bills have too many good DL as it is. 

 

NO

Not even close. Edge rusher is the worst position on the team followed by TE(talent looks good but is very unproven). Line is average and if Ford improves his play the OL can be really solid.

[NewEra]

31 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Not even close. Edge rusher is the worst position on the team followed by TE(talent looks good but is very unproven). Line is average and if Ford improves his play the OL can be really solid.

Defensive end is out worst position??  That’s what you just said Ethan.  

[Locomark]

No to a guy who will mess up our chemistry in a position that we aren’t desperate to fill. 

[GunnerBill]

15 hours ago, NewEra said:

I hear ya.  I hope you’re right and this group is good enough.  
 

I just see the end of the 2nd patriot game from last season being replayed in my head over and over.

 

The second Patriots game (and to an extent the Ravens game) were less about the line and more about Josh still needing to develop in his ability to read pre-snap and react. Teams started towards the end of the season sending more guys than the line could block because Josh wasn't seeing or getting quick enough to his hots. There are some tweaks in the plan that Daboll can make to help him there but that is a key development need for Josh in year 3. If he can get to his hots consistently and burn teams with catch and runs to Singletary and Knox and Beasley then I guarantee teams will stop blitzing the Bills with that level of regularity. 

[machine gun kelly]

I’d pass.  We brought in enough people and for the person who said we have a 3 year window, that is the thinking that put us in a 17 year drought.  We don’t have a 3 year window.  We have a lot of young talent and yes a small amount of aging players.  Some of our O Lineman and our Defensive Line is aging in spots, but that is why we drafted Epenesa.  The difference with this Bills organization we aren’t just piece mealing a team together like the way Whaley thought, we are methodically building a team that is sustainable.  If we pick up a free agent at 30, we have not been over paying for them, more we are getting role players to plug holes.

 

The key is more in developing the guys and extending them so we have talent than can last a decade.  That’s why I’m in the camp of extending Milano for a fair price.  He can play on our team for the next six years.  Picking up guys like Ansah, Ingram, etc. is a mistake at this point unless they are cheap and Ingram won’t be cheap.  Don’t forget we’re losing probably $35 mil. On the cap in 2021.  I say $35 as it was before the you know to go up like normal to $210 mil.  Now it’s going to most likely be $175 mil.  Nsekhe May be 35, but he still plays well when not hurt.  Epenesa, Butler, Addison, Harry, Jefferson is enough for now.  We’ll probably have DE on the draft as one of the priorities over the next two years along with CB, TE, and O Line.  Anyway, just one man’s opinion.

[Frez]

We need all the skilled pass rushers we can get in my honest opinion. A DE can be a true difference maker in winning and losing a close game.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Frez

[Doc]

He's no better than what the Bills already have.  Pass.

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The second Patriots game (and to an extent the Ravens game) were less about the line and more about Josh still needing to develop in his ability to read pre-snap and react. Teams started towards the end of the season sending more guys than the line could block because Josh wasn't seeing or getting quick enough to his hots. There are some tweaks in the plan that Daboll can make to help him there but that is a key development need for Josh in year 3. If he can get to his hots consistently and burn teams with catch and runs to Singletary and Knox and Beasley then I guarantee teams will stop blitzing the Bills with that level of regularity. 

While I obviously respect your opinion and agree that JA needs to improve on his OL protection calls,  on the last two plays against the pats, they rushed 4 guys both plays.  Each play, the patriots 4 guys destroyed our 5 OL.  Ford got dominated on 3rd down.  They sent an overload blitz to Dawkins side on 4th.  Josh should have adjust the protection, but didn’t.  What did dawkins do?  He falls over.  Doesn’t even touch anyone.  Trips.  While on the right side, Ford obviously didn’t learn from the previous play and got beat by the same outside rush. No chance.  The food gates were open on a 4 man rush on the last two plays with the division on the line. Some is Joshs fault. His lack of protection calls had nothing to do with Cody Ford getting whooped on both plays.  

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

While I obviously respect your opinion and agree that JA needs to improve on his OL protection calls,  on the last two plays against the pats, they rushed 4 guys both plays.  Each play, the patriots 4 guys destroyed our 5 OL.  Ford got dominated on 3rd down.  They sent an overload blitz to Dawkins side on 4th.  Josh should have adjust the protection, but didn’t.  What did dawkins do?  He falls over.  Doesn’t even touch anyone.  Trips.  While on the right side, Ford obviously didn’t learn from the previous play and got beat by the same outside rush. No chance.  The food gates were open on a 4 man rush on the last two plays with the division on the line. Some is Joshs fault. His lack of protection calls had nothing to do with Cody Ford getting whooped on both plays.  

 

I'd have to go back and look again at the specific plays but in the game overall the definitely blitzed and asked Josh to make pre-snap reads and quick decisions and he wasn't quite capable. 

[NewEra]

44 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'd have to go back and look again at the specific plays but in the game overall the definitely blitzed and asked Josh to make pre-snap reads and quick decisions and he wasn't quite capable. 

I’ve watched it plenty.  At the end, the pats were bringing 4 and our OL made it look like they brought 7.  Partly on Josh on the 4th down play.  He should’ve changed the protection on the left side, but it probavaly wouldn’t have mattered.  Our LT fell over himself and the RT got dominated for a second play in a row.  
 

either way, we’re grooming a QB that has all the talent in the world.  I know consistency along the OL is key in their progression, but so is talent.  Mongo has a great attitude, but he was so so.  Morse was average (not so good for the highest paid center),  RT was bad.  Spain was solid.  So solid that he got paid next to nothing for a free agent starter for a playoff team.  Dawkins was average imo. I know you said he improved as the year went on, so I’ll take that as the truth, but he needs to be better.  Another year experience, let’s hope they are all better.  Josh needs them to be.

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’ve watched it plenty.  At the end, the pats were bringing 4 and our OL made it look like they brought 7.  Partly on Josh on the 4th down play.  He should’ve changed the protection on the left side, but it probavaly wouldn’t have mattered.  Our LT fell over himself and the RT got dominated for a second play in a row.  
 

either way, we’re grooming a QB that has all the talent in the world.  I know consistency along the OL is key in their progression, but so is talent.  Mongo has a great attitude, but he was so so.  Morse was average (not so good for the highest paid center),  RT was bad.  Spain was solid.  So solid that he got paid next to nothing for a free agent starter for a playoff team.  Dawkins was average imo. I know you said he improved as the year went on, so I’ll take that as the truth, but he needs to be better.  Another year experience, let’s hope they are all better.  Josh needs them to be.

 

They need Josh to be too. Our Oline was middle of the pack last year. Can they be better? Yes. But were they holding back the offense? Not in my opinion. 

[Dragoon]

No thanks. 

[billsbackto81]

23 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I would think they'd be better off finding out what we have in AJ Epenesa before trading for a guy to take over his position. After all, he WAS a 2nd round pick. If he were a 25 year old all pro, than OK.

Melvin Ingram is an OLB or at least he was.  AJ is a D- Lineman. I'd stick with youth and potential over age.

Edited August 23, 2020 by billsbackto81

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Melvin Ingram is an OLB,  AJ is a D- Lineman. 

 

Ingram has been a Dlineman the last two years in Gus Bradley's defense. He has played Right Defensive End the last two seasons because the Chargers have run a 4-3. He played OLB in John Pagano's 3-4 but he was very much an edge rusher even then. He isn't an OLB in a 4-3 base. 

[billsbackto81]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ingram has been a Dlineman the last two years in Gus Bradley's defense. He has played Right Defensive End the last two seasons because the Chargers have run a 4-3. He played OLB in John Pagano's 3-4 but he was very much an edge rusher even then. He isn't an OLB in a 4-3 base. 

You're right Gunner, just saw that. I don't follow WC teams that closely. Thanks?

[T master]

I wanted the Bills to take him in the draft he's been a good player for them ! if it works make it happen !! 

[glazeduck]

For a guy with his injury history it would have to depend on the cost, BUT, one thing I haven't seen get a lot of attention re. Ingram is what he allows our defense to do...

 

While helpful for casual fans to get a general understanding of personnel groupings, positional groupings, general and foundational playcalling and strategy, etc., modern NFL defenses very rarely fall neatly into "scheme" boxes like 4-3, 3-4, etc. Teams are looking to be as "multiple" as they can be, which is a very football way of saying that they want to have players be able to do a variety of things in different ways/in different areas on the football field to stress the offense, exploit mismatches, keep the offense guessing and provide an amount of durability across a wide spectrum of situations -- Epanesa getting reps at all 4 DL spots is a perfect example of that. To me, that's exactly what bringing in Ingram -- again, at the right price and if healthy -- provides. Not only does he provide depth at arguably every front 7 position, but the guy is a pass-rushing nightmare, especially when you can move him all over the place.

 

I mentioned stressing the offense above. Imagine an OL having to account for Oliver's first step on the inside, Hughes' first step off the edge, and then two extremely versatile guys moving all over the place in Ingram and Epanesa... it's intriguing to think about for sure. Not saying I'd give up a 1 for him, but if the cost was Murphy + a 4 (bringing back their 5 or 6), I think we'd be silly to not consider it. Would be another toy for Lezlie to play with...

[heavydutyrudy]

On 8/21/2020 at 2:10 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

Saw this article and did a search on the board and nothing came up.  So thought I would share it.

 

Ingram situation is interesting given a lot of teams cant afford to trade for him if LAC were to decide to move him.  

 

This articles lists Bills second behind the Pats as a possible trade partner.  Curious what you guys would think of this trade they are proposing...

 

Melvin Ingram III and a 7th round pick for Ty Nsheke and a 5th round pick.  

 

Damn, our D would be nasty...I do like Ty though and his versatility.  Its interesting though because Ingram is in the last year of his deal.  He wants a new deal, so I personally do not think Beane is going to be interested in this given his age of 31, wanting a new deal, and having our own players we still need to resign over the next couple of years.  But, that being said, I think we could afford to trade Ty if it brought back an impact player like this and our already sick defense would get even better.  

 

I think its not a realistic scenario personally for the reasons I already stated, but certainly would be an exciting one if Beane did manage to pull a trade off for him.  

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2905243-potential-trade-packages-landing-spots-for-chargers-holdout-melvin-ingram-iii

Look at his contract (14 mill), that right there should tell you it will NEVER happen!  Not even when pigs fly.

[Alphadawg7]

9 hours ago, heavydutyrudy said:

Look at his contract (14 mill), that right there should tell you it will NEVER happen!  Not even when pigs fly.

Well I already said it wasn’t going to happen in my OP.  But the co tract is actually why it could happen as it’s last year of his deal, so we could easily absorb the deal for this year if we wanted to.

 

But again, it wasn’t going to happen and looks like he’s gonna stay with Chargers now anyway