Unpopular Bills takes, Past and present.

[machine gun kelly]

4 hours ago, jabu said:

 

So it is just a coincidence and luck that the three teams Polian was GM for were winners? Carolina in it's 2nd year to the NFC Championship, Buffalo to Super Bowls and Colts to numerous consecutive playoff appearances (8) and a Super Bowl win? Though important, drafting is only part of the role and responsibility of a GM; there is a whole lot more to the job than that, which directly impacts a team.

Exactly. I was a little stunned a HOF GM, who turned around a loser of a team in Buffalo, after Ralph wouldn’t stay out of Knox’s way who brought us our first AFCE division winner.  Some younger people don’t remember the Kay Stephenson, and Hank Bullough years.  14-43 with two coaches for four years.  It was horrible.  Polian completely turned the team around.  Granted he was a tyrant by his critics, but a serious leader of an organization by his fans.  He gets into a spitting contest with Littman (the $ guy for young guys on the thread) and Ralph sides with Littman.  Poian didn’t just draft Bruce, Andre, and mend fences with Kelly.  Kelly didn’t want to be here, but the USFL was dying so Kelly had to come back.  What about that incredible trade for Bennett, the line he assembled, and picking Bebe.  
 

Polian has the advantage the League gave him more resources to start an expansion team, but he made excellent choices.  The result was the playoffs in their second year, then goes to Indy, turns that team around, and they are One of the winningest teams of that era.  It wasn’t just Manning, it was replacing Faulk with E. James, and in time Dallas Clark, Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Reggie Wayne, and Bob Sanders.  He may have been hurt a lot, but he was incredible when playing.  Does that sound overrated?  He and Ron Wolf receiving the gold jackets were very deserving and neither of these GM’s just lucked into all of these smart decisions.  Other teams passed on these players and Polian saw what he was making.  Reminds me of my ex, and not in a bad way.  We’re still friends and one of her gifts in decorating is she had their eye to see a room before she created it.  She knew how to fit all the pieces together.  I respected her for that as most people can’t see it before it’s there.  Polian knows how to do that and legitimately deserves accolades.

 

I do feel bad for guys like Sammys Rib as you mentioned you were too young to really appreciate those years.  It was great being a Bills fan going to the playoffs for 8 of 10 years.  I certainly hope we are on our way to that again.  This year could be the playoffs three of four years and god willing win this year a couple of playoff games.  I don’t count us out getting to the SB, nor do I expect it.  I just think we have a real shot at being a winner against top competition.

 

Go Bills!

[Brennan Huff]

9 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

 

How is he drastically overrated? Those were some of the greatest teams the NFL ever saw... if anyone was a bit overrated it was Marv (God bless him though, great man). I could see Polian being overrated in Indy having Manning, but he still did draft him... Whaley sealed his fate with the trade up for Sammy and drafting EJ. 

 

My take is 3rd and long draw to Shaud Williams for 3 yards over and over and over was actually a smart play... lol just kidding. Nothing honestly comes to mind for me.

Marv Levy is one of the most overrated coaches in NFL history. I still love the man though

[BillsPride12]

I'm not buying all these Marv Levy being one of the most overrated coaches in NFL history takes because to me he doesn't get major recognition throughout the NFL community like when you hear names like Belicheck, Lombardi, Joe Gibbs and so on and so on.  Is he beloved by Bills fans?  Absolutely.  Should he be?  Absolutely.  But I don't think from a league wide perspective he is overrated nor underrated.  I think he's just one of those guys who has his rightful place in NFL history.  He was a very good coach but not one of the all-time giants.

 

My take is that these Levy is overrated takes come from salty Bills fans who are still angry about the four Super Bowl losses 30 years later.  

[Bill from NYC]

Rob Johnson was big, a great runner, had a cannon for an arm, and was extremely accurate.

 

Because of the above, he was going to be a franchise QB and lead us to big places.

 

Oh, this was me.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Flutie is better than Robojoke....

there I said it....

This will probably cause a stand alone thread to be created (yet again!).

[RobbRiddick]

With better coaching, JP Losman could have been a good QB

[eball]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I don't understand fans wearing old player jerseys to games for guys like Owens, Lynch, Moorman, Evans, Spiller, or any other Bill that is not a true great.  Spend a few bucks and get a jersey for a current player or where Bills team gear.  Once an average player is gone from the Bills donate that thing to Goodwill.

 

This, 100%.  If you’re wearing a Bills jersey it should be a guy on the Wall of Fame or a current player.

 

Also, reason #245 why wearing jerseys if you’re not a kid is ridiculous.  There is so much cool team gear out there...

[The BLUES Brothers]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

If we are talking unpopular takes that are still unpopular..... Stephon Gilmore was a really good Bill. He didn't give up, or avoid contact or any of the other crazy accusations. Nor does he get fewer penalties on him because he plays in New England. Other than his rookie year (which is understandable) his highest penalty count came in 2018 as a Patriot.

 

I am pretty sure Gilmore was the one who looked so unhappy when he was drafted - i will never know what is going through their head - but when your new fans are watching  you on TV - C'Mon man - show a little emotion!  You are right though that he was solid here, didn't like him going to the Dark Side...

 

Quick question on your earlier comment about not liking the Josh Allen selection.  I was not happy with the pick but have come around a lot.  You have a much stronger opinion of skill set evaluation - so curious of your opinion of him now?  Not trying to set you up sir - hoping  like me that now you like the pick better in retrospect?

 

[Kwai San]

11 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Marv Levy wasn’t a good coach.

 Um - the HOF disagrees with you.....

[Kwai San]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Honestly my least popular take ever on this board (even more so than not being a fan of the Josh Allen selection) was saying that Nate Peterman didn't have enough talent to spend a draft pick on. I had said it all that draft season way before he became a Bill but suddenly when we drafted him it became an unpopular take. 

 

I have been on these forums some 7 or 8 years and saying before he ever played a game that Nate Peterman totally sucked is the only opinion that has ever resulted in abusive and threatening PMs. 

 

Of course it isn't controversial now. But he had a completely crazed fanbase on here for a while. 

THIS!!!  He had a HUGE crazy following, not huge as in number of people but dang that one guy who was at the high level meeting and was spewing his man love for Peterpick was just PRICELESS!!!  High Level Meeting indeed......good times back then abusing the Peterpick posse....

[Beast]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Watkins, Woods, Harvin, Hogan, Goodwin, Clay, McCoy, Karlos Williams...... I mean it has taken us basically 5 years to get back to a lineup of skill position players like that. I would probably take 2020 over 2015, just. But this is the first year since that you can even make an argument that the talent is on par or better.

 

Outside of McCoy, you just named a bunch of players that scared absolutely nobody during their time in Buffalo.

[Royale with Cheese]

25 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

 Um - the HOF disagrees with you.....

 

Levy had 5 starting Hall of Famers on his rosters....5.  Kelly, Reed, Thomas, Smith and Lofton.  Also had Pro Bowlers in Bennett, Tasker, Ritcher, Hull, Ballard, Conlan and Talley....I'm probably missing a few.  There isn't a coach that wouldn't have won with that team.

 

The HOF is a popularity contest as well.  Joe Namath shouldn't be in there too.

He had a career losing record as a starting QB.  

He played 13 seasons and only 5 times did he complete more than 50%...career completion % is 50.1%.  That is terrible.

He threw 173 TD's to 220 interceptions.  That is terrible.

He had a career QB rating of 65.5.  That is terrible.

He's in the HOF because of his personality and the "guarantee".  But overall career he was not just a bad QB, he was terrible.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

11 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Bill Polian is drastically overrated in Buffalo
Doug Whaley was a much better GM than most in Buffalo think. If he hit on QB, his whole story is different.

If Whaley was not as bad as people in Buffalo think, why hasn't he landed another good job elsewhere in the NFL?  The XFL, really?  The professionals in the NFL know him and their actions are proof enough for me.  The numbers tell the story for Bill Polian.  His record is 229 wins and 138 losses as a GM with his three different teams.  All three teams had more wins than losses during his time with them.  His teams only missed the playoffs 7 times during his 23 years as a GM.  In Buffalo during his tenure, the team only missed the playoffs twice ( his first two years ).  His record was 69 and 42 in Buffalo with 8 playoff wins.  So much for being drastically overrated.   If Beane can even approach those numbers, we should all be happy campers.

[Kwai San]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Levy had 5 starting Hall of Famers on his rosters....5.  Kelly, Reed, Thomas, Smith and Lofton.  Also had Pro Bowlers in Bennett, Tasker, Ritcher, Hull, Ballard, Conlan and Talley....I'm probably missing a few.  There isn't a coach that wouldn't have won with that team.

 

The HOF is a popularity contest as well.  Joe Namath shouldn't be in there too.

He had a career losing record as a starting QB.  

He played 13 seasons and only 5 times did he complete more than 50%...career completion % is 50.1%.  That is terrible.

He threw 173 TD's to 220 interceptions.  That is terrible.

He had a career QB rating of 65.5.  That is terrible.

He's in the HOF because of his personality and the "guarantee".  But overall career he was not just a bad QB, he was terrible.

You schooled me....I admit it.  A Pop Warner fat kid coach could have won games with that line up.  But he dealt with HUGE personalities with that HOF lineup and got the best out of them.  Not everyone could have done that.

 

You bring up an awesome point about Joe Willie.....he got in for one win.  The wild part is he is still revered.  I'll NEVER forget the Suzy Kobler incident.  Sadly neither will she.

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

You schooled me....I admit it.  A Pop Warner fat kid coach could have won games with that line up.  But he dealt with HUGE personalities with that HOF lineup and got the best out of them.  Not everyone could have done that.

 

You bring up an awesome point about Joe Willie.....he got in for one win.  The wild part is he is still revered.  I'll NEVER forget the Suzy Kobler incident.  Sadly neither will she.

 

Is it weird that I still have a crush on Suzy Kolber?

[McBean]

Hot take: We messed up taking Nate Peterman over Chad Kelly. If Chad came to Buffalo, he would be our starting franchise QB now.

[Kwai San]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Is it weird that I still have a crush on Suzy Kolber?

 

Back in the day she was one smoking hottie out there with all the boys.....I'll bet she heard A LOT of smack talking her way. 

 

No not weird at all - I mean we ARE Bills fans after all!

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

2 minutes ago, McBean said:

Hot take: We messed up taking Nate Peterman over Chad Kelly. If Chad came to Buffalo, he would be our starting franchise QB now.

You could be right.  Watched a bunch of his college games and he was impressive.  The real question is whether he would have been more likely to stay out of trouble in Buffalo or not.  We'll never know but it certainly couldn't have been a worse outcome on the field than Peterman was.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

 

Back in the day she was one smoking hottie out there with all the boys.....I'll bet she heard A LOT of smack talking her way. 

 

No not weird at all - I mean we ARE Bills fans after all!

 

She's the best.  She's probably close to 50 now and I would still.

[Kwai San]

3 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Exactly. I was a little stunned a HOF GM, who turned around a loser of a team in Buffalo, after Ralph wouldn’t stay out of Knox’s way who brought us our first AFCE division winner.  Some younger people don’t remember the Kay Stephenson, and Hank Bullough years.  14-43 with two coaches for four years.  It was horrible.  Polian completely turned the team around.  Granted he was a tyrant by his critics, but a serious leader of an organization by his fans.  He gets into a spitting contest with Littman (the $ guy for young guys on the thread) and Ralph sides with Littman.  Poian didn’t just draft Bruce, Andre, and mend fences with Kelly.  Kelly didn’t want to be here, but the USFL was dying so Kelly had to come back.  What about that incredible trade for Bennett, the line he assembled, and picking Bebe.  
 

Polian has the advantage the League gave him more resources to start an expansion team, but he made excellent choices.  The result was the playoffs in their second year, then goes to Indy, turns that team around, and they are One of the winningest teams of that era.  It wasn’t just Manning, it was replacing Faulk with E. James, and in time Dallas Clark, Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Reggie Wayne, and Bob Sanders.  He may have been hurt a lot, but he was incredible when playing.  Does that sound overrated?  He and Ron Wolf receiving the gold jackets were very deserving and neither of these GM’s just lucked into all of these smart decisions.  Other teams passed on these players and Polian saw what he was making.  Reminds me of my ex, and not in a bad way.  We’re still friends and one of her gifts in decorating is she had their eye to see a room before she created it.  She knew how to fit all the pieces together.  I respected her for that as most people can’t see it before it’s there.  Polian knows how to do that and legitimately deserves accolades.

 

I do feel bad for guys like Sammys Rib as you mentioned you were too young to really appreciate those years.  It was great being a Bills fan going to the playoffs for 8 of 10 years.  I certainly hope we are on our way to that again.  This year could be the playoffs three of four years and god willing win this year a couple of playoff games.  I don’t count us out getting to the SB, nor do I expect it.  I just think we have a real shot at being a winner against top competition.

 

Go Bills!

 

Yeah being a fan back in those days was the BOMB!  Freezing your AZZ off during the Raiders AFC blowout?  Good times!!!  Storming the field and tearing down the goalposts not once but twice??  Good times.  I almost died the first time, the second time I knew better and stayed on the fringe.  I can pick my ugly mug out on the famous picture of the first storming of the field....when I saw that picture at the HOF I damn near cried.  My wife laughed at me but thems were the days.  I attended the second and third SB's and was outside of the stadium at the Bud Bowl (remember those??) for the last one.  I too am hoping that these next few years will be just as awesome.  GO BILLS!

 

 

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

She's the best.  She's probably close to 50 now and I would still.

 She is 56...dang that makes me feel old.  Yeah so would a lot of other guys!!!  Me included!

Edited August 21, 2020 by Kwai San

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

24 minutes ago, McBean said:

Hot take: We messed up taking Nate Peterman over Chad Kelly. If Chad came to Buffalo, he would be our starting franchise QB now.

That would have 'sucked'...

*
(why is there no emoji for a vacuum cleaner?  ?)

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

 

Outside of McCoy, you just named a bunch of players that scared absolutely nobody during their time in Buffalo.

 

I mean they were a top 12 offense in 2015. You said there was no offensive talent. Must have been a mirage.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Beef on Weck said:

 

I am pretty sure Gilmore was the one who looked so unhappy when he was drafted - i will never know what is going through their head - but when your new fans are watching  you on TV - C'Mon man - show a little emotion!  You are right though that he was solid here, didn't like him going to the Dark Side...

 

Quick question on your earlier comment about not liking the Josh Allen selection.  I was not happy with the pick but have come around a lot.  You have a much stronger opinion of skill set evaluation - so curious of your opinion of him now?  Not trying to set you up sir - hoping  like me that now you like the pick better in retrospect?

 

 

I think his college tape displayed a level of natural inaccuracy (that is inaccuracy not explainable by an obvious technical issue) that I would not have been comfortable drafting. It has show itself in the NFL too at times, but when he really gets in rhythm and the ball is in his hands he has shown he can be a consistent and accurate thrower. It is why I am absolutely against any suggestion that the way we develop Josh is by babying him, only asking him to throw 25 times a game and run it relentlessly. I don't think you will ever develop this guy that way. You have to have him in rhythm and throwing. His decision making did worry me too, that worries me less now. I think he is a bit of a reckless gunslinger at times but some of his best plays come when he does that. The one area I completely missed in my evaluation of him was how dangerous he is with his legs. I totally missed on that. The other faults that I saw are still there and while I worry about them less now, they would still looking back at the college tape have put me off drafting him. That said, I am pretty optimistic with where he is at. If he can take another step this year he may well be the guy.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

7 hours ago, Mango said:

Not much of a hot take. He had the job last year. Also E.J. Gaines opted out. Who is left Taron Johnson? He generally plays in the nickel and does a good job there. The only one close to upsetting Wallace is Norman. He’s a total wild card at the moment. It does sound like he picked off JA today though. 
 

The hot take might be what you mean by “lock it down”

Yup, I think he will continue in his development to turn into a dominant presence giving us a complete package back there. 

[thebandit27]

Here’s several:

- Gilmore was always this good; fans simply didn’t see it 

- Jabari Greer was a better CB than Terrence McGee

- There’s a good reason why Trent Murphy lead all Bills’ DEs in snaps last year 

- Jordan Poyer is outstanding against the run, but fairly overrated in pass coverage 

- The 2019 Bills had two systemic problems that went relatively unnoticed: fumbling and tackling 

[Matt_In_NH]

Trent Edwards did not change after the concussion

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Here’s several:

- Gilmore was always this good; fans simply didn’t see it 

- Jabari Greer was a better CB than Terrence McGee

- There’s a good reason why Trent Murphy lead all Bills’ DEs in snaps last year 

- Jordan Poyer is outstanding against the run, but fairly overrated in pass coverage 

- The 2019 Bills had two systemic problems that went relatively unnoticed: fumbling and tackling 

 

I can get behind almost all of this. The Murphy one is a tough pill to swallow, but honestly I would have to go back and watch a lot of old games to take a side on it. So I will defer to you since I agree with the others. 

The Poyer one though, I saw yesterday on PFR that Poyers QB Rating when targeted is 117.  It is by far the worst on the team. His Made Tackle % is pretty low as well. But I have literally never looked at that stat before and that could be super useless information. ha. 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Here’s several:

- Gilmore was always this good; fans simply didn’t see it 

- Jabari Greer was a better CB than Terrence McGee

- There’s a good reason why Trent Murphy lead all Bills’ DEs in snaps last year 

- Jordan Poyer is outstanding against the run, but fairly overrated in pass coverage 

- The 2019 Bills had two systemic problems that went relatively unnoticed: fumbling and tackling 

 

Can behind most. But not Trent. I have old socks that have better lane discipline. 

[Steve O]

Harmon's drop against Cleveland would have been a difficult catch. 

[Talley56]

Past - The home run throwback loss to the Titans in the playoffs was a legal backwards lateral.  It may have been ever so slightly backwards, but it was backwards all the same.

 

Present - 2019 playoff run was more exciting than 2017.

[Seasons1992]

26 minutes ago, Steve O said:

Harmon's drop against Cleveland would have been a difficult catch. 

 

I'll never get over this.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Unpopular Takes:

 

1. The Bills screwed up the Jason Peters situation. I don't care that they renegotiated his deal once before. The fact that Derrick Dockery was making $7 million a year, and Langston Walker was making $5 million a year, when Jason Peters was making $3.25M was absurd. Funny how the Philadelphia Eagles were able to get a contract done immediately. Russ Brandon standing up in front of the media in 2009 saying he had no idea where Peters was, and that he hadn't heard from him since the 2008 season ended. And then seeing PFT quote sources saying the Bills got fleeced. 

 

Fans largely sided with the organization, saying Peters was a fat, out of shape slob and that the Bills made him into what he was. Rinky Dink organization. Peters is a HOF LT. 

 

 

 

2. Fans sided with Doug Marrone and EJ Manuel when the Bills traded Steve Johnson. I hated that trade. Somehow the guy that turned down Free Agency to stay with the Bills, and led the Bills in receiving 3-years was now too erratic of a route runner for disciplinarian Marrone and EJ. Plus, the coddling of Sammy Watkins started then too, couldn't have Sammy face any competition.  

 

Fans tuned on Steve Johnson, his "antics", what a dropped pass and a shirt that said "why so serious?". I know how ghastly. 

 

And I ripped the Bills for the Marrone hire to begin with. Again, Russ Brandon promised a no-stone unturned search for a HC. And what we got was 5-days in Arizona. 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

If we are talking unpopular takes that are still unpopular..... Stephon Gilmore was a really good Bill. He didn't give up, or avoid contact or any of the other crazy accusations. Nor does he get fewer penalties on him because he plays in New England. Other than his rookie year (which is understandable) his highest penalty count came in 2018 as a Patriot.

 

Gilmore's down fall here was due in part to Rex Ryan. The defense went from top 5 to bottom half of the league. Talented or not, Gilmore did not seem to be a puzzle piece that was worth spending somewhat significant money on to re-sign. I think if we had a top 10 defense still under Rex then Whaley may have been more inclined to see the value in Gilmore. He also had his injury history early on in his career missing 14 out of 80 games in 5 years. Not terrible but not ideal either. Questions remained if he was injured in his early 20's how would his body hold up as he approached his 30's.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

And I ripped the Bills for the Marrone hire to begin with. Again, Russ Brandon promised a no-stone unturned search for a HC. And what we got was 5-days in Arizona. 

 

Was Tinder in existence back then?  ?

[Beast]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean they were a top 12 offense in 2015. You said there was no offensive talent. Must have been a mirage.

 

It was. Where are they now? Where were all those great players after?

 

 

[Steve O]

23 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

I'll never get over this.

What's forgotten is that in the previous drive Norwood slipped on the extra point and it was blocked, or a field goal would have tied the game after the drop

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

This, 100%.  If you’re wearing a Bills jersey it should be a guy on the Wall of Fame or a current player.

 

Also, reason #245 why wearing jerseys if you’re not a kid is ridiculous.  There is so much cool team gear out there...

 

Isn't a jersey also team gear? I've never understood the jersey's are only for kids crowd.

 

Yes, I wear jersey's on game day. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Can behind most. But not Trent. I have old socks that have better lane discipline. 

Are those socks stiff?

[ChevyVanMiller]

"Post playing career, OJ will be the best ambassador for WNY ever."

[SirAndrew]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Isn't a jersey also team gear? I've never understood the jersey's are only for kids crowd.

 

Yes, I wear jersey's on game day. 

I’ve never understood that crowd either, and I don’t even wear a jersey on game day. I just don’t understand why anyone cares what another dude chooses to wear.