Thurman#1 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 3 hours ago, John from Riverside said: In my mind we actually drafted 3 wide outs because we gave a 1st for Diggs......we really invested in WR this year which was smart. I honestly dont expect IH to just be a throw away pick.....he may very well end up on the practice squad but I think he is going to be playing for us at some point I hadn't thought of it that way - drafted three wideouts - but it's an interesting POV. Hope you're right about Hodgins. I'm less sure about that than you are, but it certainly seems possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) If these guys actually contribute this year it will be a testament to all the heavy work the scouts did on evaluating college WRs this year, obviously thinking we would take one early prior to trading for Diggs, but that work didn’t go to waste as they picked these two for a reason. Could be 1 or two steals. I think Davis makes the 53 and the expanded PS should give Hodgins a shot to stick there. Interesting to hear Brown talk about how smart they are. Edited August 11, 2020 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Another example of how thoroughly Brandon Beane researches prospects in preparation for the draft. The book on Davis was that he was pretty athletic, but ran a limited route tree in college. That may have been true, but Beane's staff figured out that he had a head on his shoulders and the dedication to learn what he needed to be an NFL receiver. We already knew that Hodgins was a crafty route runner who could gain separation. The knock on him was that he's not too fast and while he's tall, he's not real strong. He can get stronger, but he'll probably never be a burner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, TigerJ said: Another example of how thoroughly Brandon Beane researches prospects in preparation for the draft. The book on Davis was that he was pretty athletic, but ran a limited route tree in college. That may have been true, but Beane's staff figured out that he had a head on his shoulders and the dedication to learn what he needed to be an NFL receiver. We already knew that Hodgins was a crafty route runner who could gain separation. The knock on him was that he's not too fast and while he's tall, he's not real strong. He can get stronger, but he'll probably never be a burner. Two most important traits for an nfl WR imo: -route running -hands separation is important but there are different ways to achieve that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Two most important traits for an nfl WR imo: -route running -hands separation is important but there are different ways to achieve that Separation. Is one of my pet peeves. Practically no #2 gets separation on his own. They get separation on scheme and route running. If Rober Woods could get separation consistently he would be a number 1. He is a route runner with hands. So I agree with your two most important traits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 25 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Two most important traits for an nfl WR imo: -route running -hands separation is important but there are different ways to achieve that My post was not intended to say Hodgins can't be a successful NFL receiver. I was just reminding posters how he was viewed before he was drafted. Hodgins, by the way, was said to have terrific hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 hours ago, FireChans said: What’s interesting is your inability to recognize a joke. Well maybe not interesting. I’m sure I’ll think of a word. Nope. I certainly did recognize it was a joke, and that I then went on to point out that for a joke, I considered it a poor one, comparing two situations that had virtually nothing in common. Or rather, nothing but that both of them involved Marcel in reporting, which seeing it's his job is not unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Two most important traits for an nfl WR imo: -route running -hands separation is important but there are different ways to achieve that Hunh? Good route-running is good precisely because it helps get separation. There are other benefits, such as possibly helping with positioning, but separation is the primary benefit of good route-running. I'd argue separation isn't really a trait, it's more a byproduct of certain skills and abilities than a talent on it's own. Yeah, athletic suddenness is another way to get separation, but route-running is mostly about making yourself less predictable to d-backs so you can delay their response an instant and get separation. Hopefully Hodgins can improve his route-running. I certainly don't disagree that route-running is absolutely huge for WRs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I expected Davis to get some pretty meaningful playing time anyway, Hodgins is in a roster battle, he better have come to play or he won’t have a spot AND it’s going to be super difficult for rookies to pick up new jobs without a preseason. I see it as: locks: Diggs Smoke Beez Davis battling for a spot: Roberts (makes it unless something happened to his speed, solid WR and great KR, special teams will be a need this year) McKenzie - gadget player maybe a returner Foster- size/speed combo , maybe flipped for a late round pick. Duke - size and supposedly great hands Hodgins- spent a pick on him, probably try to get him to PS . my guess is Roberts and McKenzie make it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) I’m optimistic about both Davis and Hodgins but my expectations are low at the moment.. They are a fourth and sixth round pick after all... they can’t all be Milano’s ... Let’s not forget that Beane values a lot of these Day 3 picks as simply fodder to move up in rounds 2 and 3 ( see Ford and Dawson last year and was apparently looking for a partner this year to move up for Moss)... I want/expect him to hit with ALL his picks in the first three rounds but if Davis works out then I won’t be complaining... But this time next year I would prefer to be saying what a genius he was for picking Epenesa and Moss rather than a Day 3 WR.. And yes... I do acknowledge that Diggs was a Day 3 WR... Edited August 11, 2020 by Aussie Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Hunh? Good route-running is good precisely because it helps get separation. There are other benefits, such as possibly helping with positioning, but separation is the primary benefit of good route-running. I'd argue separation isn't really a trait, it's more a byproduct of certain skills and abilities than a talent on it's own. Yeah, athletic suddenness is another way to get separation, but route-running is mostly about making yourself less predictable to d-backs so you can delay their response an instant and get separation. Hopefully Hodgins can improve his route-running. I certainly don't disagree that route-running is absolutely huge for WRs. This is correct. Separation is a by product of other abilities and can generally be achieved through speed and athleticism or through skilled route running. There is also the odd receiver - Dez Bryant was one - who generates what I call "vertical separation" through a consistent ability to play above the rim and get higher than defenders. But this is also kind of my concerns with Hodgins. I think he is a good route runner and yet he still struggled to separate at the college level. I am not sure how many efficiencies there are to be found in his route running. Maybe an NFL strength and conditioning programme helps him to generate extra speed? I think he probably needs to. While he was a good contested catch receiver in college as we all know with Zay Jones that can soon change in the NFL when you are contesting those catches with a higher level of athlete. I am not writing him off I just don't know how much ceiling there is there. When I look at Gabe there are definite efficiencies I think can be made in his get off that should help him separate more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Let's hope they are both steals. You have to take these early reports with a grain of salt though. Several players had considerable praise for Danny Batten during his rookie TC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 4 hours ago, DCofNC said: I expected Davis to get some pretty meaningful playing time anyway, Hodgins is in a roster battle, he better have come to play or he won’t have a spot AND it’s going to be super difficult for rookies to pick up new jobs without a preseason. I see it as: locks: Diggs Smoke Beez Davis battling for a spot: Roberts (makes it unless something happened to his speed, solid WR and great KR, special teams will be a need this year) McKenzie - gadget player maybe a returner Foster- size/speed combo , maybe flipped for a late round pick. Duke - size and supposedly great hands Hodgins- spent a pick on him, probably try to get him to PS . my guess is Roberts and McKenzie make it. I pretty much said the same thing. Either Hodgins makes the 53, and McKenzie makes the PS or the reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 19 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said: Good to hear. I would think both have a shot to make the roster or possibly protected on the practice squad. First they have to MAKE the practice squad. Would have to be cut and then would likely get picked up by another team. Cant be automatically assigned to PS,have to exposed to waivers .The "protection" starts on a Tuesday, so they would still be vulnerable for a couple days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: I’m optimistic about both Davis and Hodgins but my expectations are low at the moment.. They are a fourth and sixth round pick after all... they can’t all be Milano’s ... I don’t know why, but I found myself rewatching this season’s “Embedded” that took us through the Bills’ pre-draft process. What stuck out is how Beane said at the combine, when they were watching the WRs, something to the effect of “gosh, there are so many good ones this year.” Don’t underestimate the Beaner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 So, Dabol , here is the challenge...if you are such a good OC find a way to have a 6 wide receiver set! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 19 hours ago, Mountain Man said: Sounds like they are ready to take Duke Williams roster spot. His social media fans won't be happy. Bellichek is patiently waiting he needs another WR . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 17 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: Well, Roberts doesn’t have anything to worry about. “Hey, Roberts, when they kick or punt that ball to you, just run Forest run”. I knew Davis would have a real shot at making the 53. It would be great if Hodgins does as well. Remember Brown and Beasley are 30 and 31. In two years these guys will be great adds to the team and cheap labor for four years. Foster is all but gone, Williams to the PS, and maybe McKenzie is kept as he can play WR, DB in a pinch, returner, and overall gadget guy. Diggs Brown Beasely Roberts Davis Hodgins Speed, elusiveness, over the middle, returner, and now finally size. Foster should work hard at finding work at one of the places weak at WR. We’re not there anymore for once. Why Roberts? And don’t say because of Punt Return ability... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 23 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said: Why Roberts? And don’t say because of Punt Return ability... Why not? He was 8th in yards per punt return and 4th in yards per kick return. Is that somehow a bad thing? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, eball said: I don’t know why, but I found myself rewatching this season’s “Embedded” that took us through the Bills’ pre-draft process. What stuck out is how Beane said at the combine, when they were watching the WRs, something to the effect of “gosh, there are so many good ones this year.” Don’t underestimate the Beaner. I mean yes, he did, but you didn't need to be Brandon Beane to know that.... everyone and his dog knew it was a stacked WR class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 16 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Hodgins lacks speed and separation ability for me. Big Tall Guys always have that Question however his Three Cone at 7.01 was good and that is better than Metcalf was. Both his Broad Jump and Vertical numbers where in the area you would want them. His 40 was on a the slow side. I would have to see when he ran his drills again, because I know there were bad times this year with the move to a Primetime event and having these guys sit around all day before getting to their Drills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 16 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Hodgins lacks speed and separation ability for me. I think your miss interpreting 40 speed = seperation ability. I Hodgins has little chance outside because he wont threaten any CB deep. As a slot reciever he hss real potential to make a career for himself. His agility ratings suggest he should excel at those kind of routes and generate the required seperation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 20 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Buh Bye Duke Williams and Robert Foster I never understand these view points. Wouldn't it be better if they improved their games as well? I wouldn't mind see Duke look like he did in Canada and Foster play like he did in 2018. That would be the best case scenario although it would be better if we had preseason games to display that performance. With that being said this is very exciting news if it translates to in game production on the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: I never understand these view points. Wouldn't it be better if they improved their games as well? I wouldn't mind see Duke look like he did in Canada and Foster play like he did in 2018. That would be the best case scenario although it would be better if we had preseason games to display that performance. With that being said this is very exciting news if it translates to in game production on the field. Because it is. How many WRs are you going to keep. 2019 - 2 Big UFA Contracts 2020 - Trading for One Drafting 2 I think that tells you all you need to know about what they think about their WR room Diggs Brown Beasley Roberts - Yes his return skills lock him. Davis ----------------------------------------Locks Leaving: Isaiah Hodgins - Their recent Draft pick Isaiah McKenzie Robert Foster Nick Easley Duke WIlliams Fighting for 1 spot. Duke Williams - good story didnt translate his CFL play to NFL in first year Robert Foster now pretty removed from a 6 game stretch that he looked the part. Edited August 11, 2020 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, CEN-CAL17 said: Why Roberts? And don’t say because of Punt Return ability... That’s exactly why he makes the team and was acquired before. McD knows there are three phases to a team and Roberts is one of the top 5-6 returners in the NFL. Most returners are with WR’s, DB’s, and in some cases a RB. If you’re keeping a 6th WR, if he is a top returner he makes the team. This team doesn’t even do many 4 wide sets. They lean more on three so he’s not just a back up, but a dedicated returner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Matter_What Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: Why not? He was 8th in yards per punt return and 4th in yards per kick return. Is that somehow a bad thing? Exactly. I recently rewatched whole last season. There were many things which stood out, and one of them was how exceptionally reliable Roberts was. He makes good decisions, catches everything, does not fumble and constantly gains as much as possible from each return. I'd keep him for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I mean yes, he did, but you didn't need to be Brandon Beane to know that.... everyone and his dog knew it was a stacked WR class. My point was in response to "they were only 4th and 6th round picks" -- in such a deep class that means less than it might ordinarily... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Mat68 said: I think your miss interpreting 40 speed = seperation ability. I Hodgins has little chance outside because he wont threaten any CB deep. As a slot reciever he hss real potential to make a career for himself. His agility ratings suggest he should excel at those kind of routes and generate the required seperation. Nope, I am not. I am basing this on his tape not his 40 time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I hope one of these guys steps up because we badly need size at receiver. But this regime’s drafting of receivers has been terrible. As good as they are on defense, they are that bad at receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Matter_What Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I hope one of these guys steps up because we badly need size at receiver. But this regime’s drafting of receivers has been terrible. As good as they are on defense, they are that bad at receiver. Not sure what you are talking about. Only receiver drafted last 3 years in rounds 1-5 was Zay Jones and if I remember correctly Beane was not in the building - he was hired after the draft. We also fired complete scouting staff shortly thereafter. I don't think we can say he was drafted by "this regime". This regime only drafted McCloud and Proehl in 6th and 7th round and their success in NFL correlates to their draft position. Edited August 11, 2020 by No_Matter_What 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Georgie said: First they have to MAKE the practice squad. Would have to be cut and then would likely get picked up by another team. Cant be automatically assigned to PS,have to exposed to waivers .The "protection" starts on a Tuesday, so they would still be vulnerable for a couple days. It’s likely that players who are cut will not be picked up by other teams because they don’t have much film on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: It’s likely that players who are cut will not be picked up by other teams because they don’t have much film on them. This year's practice squad signings will be revealing. Are the Bills relying on what they see in practice, or are their decisions based on scouting? I bet we will figure out real quick based on how many non-Bills PS signings they make. Also, and I say it because I don't think its mentioned anywhere else, how much does it suck we don't get to see Christian Wade this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Also remember that if a player is about to be poached off the practice squad we can still sign him to our active roster if he wants to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. K Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 So were going to run a 6 WR set? All joking aside good to hear they got the culture and process flowing through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Also remember that if a player is about to be poached off the practice squad we can still sign him to our active roster if he wants to stay. Yep but that is if we get them back in the first place. When we initially cut them at the end of camp they have to clear waivers first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 51 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yep but that is if we get them back in the first place. When we initially cut them at the end of camp they have to clear waivers first. Yep. I was only referring to putting them on the PS in response to a poster saying that teams aren't as likely to sign guys that were cut this year as much as previous years. But of course, you're right, they would have to be cut first, and since there hasn't been OTAs and preseason games to downgrade a player, teams could well rely on their draft scouting reports on a guy like Hodgins, and think he may be better than our 5 or 6 we are planning to keep. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 It seems there’s too much pep in Browns words for this to be cast off as typical ‘pro-team’ rah-rah nonsense so that’s good. they were drafted too late for me to have had high hopes for them as prospects so this is nice to hear. Let’s see how they pan out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I feel the difference between past GMs and coaching staffs and this one is. They are really good at identifying players that come prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Mat68 said: I think your miss interpreting 40 speed = seperation ability. I Hodgins has little chance outside because he wont threaten any CB deep. As a slot reciever he hss real potential to make a career for himself. His agility ratings suggest he should excel at those kind of routes and generate the required seperation. 40 speed equates more to deep threat speed where you simply run away from a guy. Good agility gives you the ability to create separation from changing direction. The fact that he is a big bodied receiver at 6' 4" and over 210 lbs means he will present a big target closer to the LOS which means he can shield the defender from the ball, so even if he might be covered, Allen can still throw it to him knowing the defender can't get to it. All of this at this point is theoretical, but the potential is there for him to be highly effective and used similar to Beasley. He is said to have great body control, ball skills and hands, with some saying he has the best hands in the entire draft. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/4/25/21236722/opinion-isaiah-hodgins-is-a-steal-with-amazing-ball-skills-for-buffalo-bills-2020-nfl-draft Edited August 11, 2020 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 3 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Hodgins yes. Davis not really. In a not so stacked WR class he's probably a late 2nd round pick. For whatever reason they fall, they fell. I expect nothing from anybody drafted after round 4. To me they’re all flyers. And whenever we hit, I’m stoked. But I think your take on this sounds right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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