What do you make of these stats highlights how poor our offense was last season?

[Penfield45]

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not gonna hate on Allen for his game winning drives. but our offense seriously needs to step up next season. We have a SB winning caliber defense with an offense than can barely score more than 2 TD's per game. 

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Penfield45

[GoBills808]

Can’t catch em too

[Don Otreply]

It means we were 10-6 and went to the post season, and, wait, we are favored to win the division this season, so we got that going for us...

 

Yes the O needs to step up, but all of us already knew that... next...

 

Go Bills!!!

[MJS]

That's one way to interpret the data.

 

No matter how you slice it, game winning drives are good.

[ganesh]

31 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

 

 

I'm not gonna hate on Allen for his game winning drives. but our offense seriously needs to step up next season. We have a SB winning caliber defense with an offense than can barely score more than 2 TD's per game. 

 

People keep saying we have a SB winning defense..yet our defense choked in the 2nd half of the wild card game to stop the Texans.  They gave up 19 straight points.   Giving up that 3rd and eternity to the RB by everyone running past the down marker is not the mark of a championship caliber defense.    This defense still does not have the necessary pass rush and also leaks like a bucket against the running game...It still needs a lot of work not withstanding the gaudy numbers on points and yards.

[Sherlock Holmes]

28 minutes ago, MJS said:

That's one way to interpret the data.

 

No matter how you slice it, game winning drives are good.

Allen's clutchhhhh!!!! Always feels like something special is going to happen with the ball in his hand

[Aussie Joe]

I make that they are comments from a bitter Jets fan..

MiA, PIt and the Jets beat a few teams last year too..

Edited August 9, 2020 by Aussie Joe

[klos63]

A big play a game to Diggs or Brown would change those numbers. Hitting an open Diggs on 3rd downs will keep scoring drives alive. A more consistent running game with 2 strong RB's will help.

[YattaOkasan]

3 of those 4 games came early in the season when we were still working our offense out.  Our first three game of offense was terrible but isn’t it common knowledge that the first weeks of the season have the weirdest results.  
 

I wouldn’t say we took the whole game to put Mia away as we took a lead we wouldn’t relinquish with ~1 min into the 4th quarter (we just played super bad in the first half).

 

lastly the Steelers game was a comedy of errors on offense.  I recommend the cover 1 breakdown.  

[BornAgainBillsFan]

I don't need stats to tell me that the O has to get better. Another 6-7 points a game, and we're in business!

 

But 4th quarter comebacks do mean something, regardless of whether the score is (Bills) 7 - (Opponents) 13 or 35-41. Either way, it shows that Josh doesn't wilt down the stretch. He thrives under the pressure of the closing minutes. But @ScottLaw is right. He needs to spread that out over the whole game.

[YattaOkasan]

33 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The offense was bad against the better teams/defenses of the league... not going to work against a much harder schedule than the cupcake schedule last season.

 

Disagree with him that he was surrounded with good or decent pass catchers. Not even close.

 

 

Actually wrong.

 

I thought one of their best offensive performances came against the Giants in week 2.... the offense did not get better as the season went along.

A more consistent QB....

Fair that 1st half against the Giants was good (forgot how good) but second half was bad. As to the offense not getting better that ludicrous. 2 of the first 3 weeks were that ridiculous jets game and the Cincinnati game. 
Dallas was a not bad def and we ate their turkey. Against the Steelers we had costly turnovers (interception off beasleys hands and singeltary fumble) in Pitt territory. Hell look at our divisional games. We struggled with Mia at home and we smoked them the second time on the road. We played the patriots better the second time again in the road. So I think it clearly got better. 
Agree though that we were fortunate to have a cup cake schedule particularly early in the season. Not sure we beat Dallas or Pitt if we play them early in the year. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by YattaOkasan

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Not for nothing, but I’d rather my guy comes through in the clutch than a Stafford type putting up gaudy numbers that mean nothing by the time the final whistle blows because he couldn’t make it happen late...of course, putting both together even better, and we will see more of that this year imho. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, YattaOkasan said:

Fair that 1st half against the Giants was good (forgot how good) but second half was bad. As to the offense not getting better that ludicrous. 2 of the first 3 weeks were that ridiculous jets game and the Cincinnati game. 
Dallas was a not bad def and we ate their turkey. Against the Steelers we had costly turnovers (interception off beasleys hands and singeltary fumble) in Pitt territory. Hell look at our divisional games. We struggled with Mia at home and we smoked them the second time on the road. We played the patriots better the second time again in the road. So I think it clearly got better. 
Agree though that we were fortunate to have a cup cake schedule particularly early in the season. Not sure we beat Dallas or Pitt if we play them early in the year. 

Without the drops I believe we beat the Ravens

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

People keep saying we have a SB winning defense..yet our defense choked in the 2nd half of the wild card game to stop the Texans.  They gave up 19 straight points.   Giving up that 3rd and eternity to the RB by everyone running past the down marker is not the mark of a championship caliber defense.    This defense still does not have the necessary pass rush and also leaks like a bucket against the running game...It still needs a lot of work not withstanding the gaudy numbers on points and yards.

 

 

The reason people keep saying we have a SB-winning quality defense ... is that we do. Not the best in the NFL or anything, but yeah, a top five sort of defense.

 

Nobody said we had a perfect defense. If you look through the record of the absolute best defenses in history you will still find bad quarters, bad halves and bad games. That's the way these things work.

 

A quick example is the '85 Bears, arguably the gold standard, who allowed 38 points to the Dolphins offense and 28 points to the Bucs offense, and the Bucs won a total of two games that year, they were horrendous, 21st of 28 in scoring.

 

The Bills defense is unquestionably excellent. Do they need to continue working hard and improving? Yeah, of course. So does everyone, always, on a team aiming for a Lombardi. The offense is the one that needs serious improvement for this team to threaten.

[machine gun kelly]

5 hours ago, klos63 said:

A big play a game to Diggs or Brown would change those numbers. Hitting an open Diggs on 3rd downs will keep scoring drives alive. A more consistent running game with 2 strong RB's will help.

 
Klos, you beat me to it when I read Ganesh’s comments, and Ganesh I understand you’re frustration.  The reply is we now have most likely a more explosive RB in Moss complimenting Motor.  We had Gore and used him for his experience, but he was out of gas so stopped our drives in the second half.  Singletary was chewing up chunks of yards in the first half.  As a result, drives were stopping, amd kept letting their offense to get back in the game.  Any top defense will get tased if they have to be ion the field the majority of the time.  As Klos said, we also have Diggs to make plays and open up Brown and Beasley for plays.  Lastly, we have an O Line primarily returning minus the Feliciano loss, so that will also make it easier for Allen to throw to the open guy, and for Motor and Moss to Break through holes.

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Without the drops I believe we beat the Ravens

Funny, how we were so close to beating the 14-2 Ravens (they had their worst performance of their season and TN tried to replicate our game plan on defense in their playoff loss), we keep our starters in week 17, and we are 11-5.  We blew it on one play in the first Patriots game with a botched snap for a punt, and BB picked up on we were almost caught and weeks 1 and 2 when the Jets brought 9 on a punt, and the Giants brought 10.  Our stupid ST coach didn’t adjust the gunners to move in when they overloaded.  That’s not as much a crappy offense as it is bad coaching in those instances.  There is no argument our offense has to pay better, WR’s need to catch the damn ball, and Allen has to improve in his accuracy.  It’s not fair to say every problem we have is Allen.  It’s not.  It’s a number of things, but a, cautiously confident we’ll improve in these matters this year.

 

I can’t underscore enough we have 88%, #1 in the league returning snaps.  Even if you subtract Star, but add Diggs, all of those defensive lineman, etc.  we should come out fast in September and October.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

7 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

What do you make of these stats

 

 

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

3 of those 4 games came early in the season when we were still working our offense out.  Our first three game of offense was terrible but isn’t it common knowledge that the first weeks of the season have the weirdest results.  
 

I wouldn’t say we took the whole game to put Mia away as we took a lead we wouldn’t relinquish with ~1 min into the 4th quarter (we just played super bad in the first half).

 

lastly the Steelers game was a comedy of errors on offense.  I recommend the cover 1 breakdown.  

The steelers also have a great pass rush and our OL didn't adjust.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I know it’s impossible to put it on 1 guy but I’m going to repeat what I said, every week of last season: 

 

(First off) Beane has been amazing and he’s got so much equity built up with me that one mistake is nothing. But it was inexcusable to ever sign Frank Gore last year and even worse to constantly activate him for games. The fact that he got several carries in big spots is incomprehensible. The guy had been completely done for at least 3 years before he got to Buffalo. I will give him that he was solid in the Patriots game. But that in no way covers the rest of the season for me. This guy absolutely killed our momentum on so many occasions. No matter what we had going, Dabol could not help himself but to get Gore the ball early on downs and put us in a big hole. The entire thing was self inflicted for absolutely no reason. It was maddening to know that we had other RBs (in house) that would have given us so much more as a spell to Singletary. I am not sure how anyone alive could watch this team and not notice how shot this guys legs were. Somehow the only guy who couldn’t see it, was the offensive coordinator for the Bills. 
 

Holes were there. You could see that clearly anytime Singletary touched the ball. And don't get me wrong, I don’t blame Frank Gore. It’s not his fault he got old. It happens to all of us. And if someone wants to keep paying him, power to the guy. There was just no reason for us to ever have him here in the first place. You want him on the roster as a mentor to Singletary? I can live with that. Make him inactive and dress Yeldon then. In my eyes though (in this league) there is never a reason to pay, or even have an old running back...ever. I’m so happy that the Bills drafted Moss this year. I can’t wait to see what this offense looks like with 2 guys that can run. I know this wasn’t the only flaw our offense had last year but to me it was by far the biggest. Thankfully it got fixed over the offseason.

[eball]

If I knew or gave a damn about who “Michael Nania” is that might make a difference in how I view his opinion.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Fair that 1st half against the Giants was good (forgot how good) but second half was bad. As to the offense not getting better that ludicrous. 2 of the first 3 weeks were that ridiculous jets game and the Cincinnati game. 
Dallas was a not bad def and we ate their turkey. Against the Steelers we had costly turnovers (interception off beasleys hands and singeltary fumble) in Pitt territory. Hell look at our divisional games. We struggled with Mia at home and we smoked them the second time on the road. We played the patriots better the second time again in the road. So I think it clearly got better. 
Agree though that we were fortunate to have a cup cake schedule particularly early in the season. Not sure we beat Dallas or Pitt if we play them early in the year. 

 

I think three of Josh's best performances were the first three weeks. He was 63% upwards in all 3 games, he was getting the ball out quickly and he threw for over 240 yards each week. Yes, he had as many total turnovers (5 - 3 int and 2 lost fumbles) as he did total touchdowns (also 5 - 3 passing, 2 rushing) but a lot of those turnovers were real freak plays. Those 3 games, plus Dallas and twice against Miami are the 6 games that I hang my hat on in being optimistic about Josh. If we could get that version of Josh Allen 12 times out of 16 rather than 6 times out of 16 in 2020 the Bills could be really, really good. 

[eball]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think three of Josh's best performances were the first three weeks. He was 63% upwards in all 3 games, he was getting the ball out quickly and he threw for over 240 yards each week. Yes, he had as many total turnovers (5 - 3 int and 2 lost fumbles) as he did total touchdowns (also 5 - 3 passing, 2 rushing) but a lot of those turnovers were real freak plays. Those 3 games, plus Dallas and twice against Miami are the 6 games that I hang my hat on in being optimistic about Josh. If we could get that version of Josh Allen 12 times out of 16 rather than 6 times out of 16 in 2020 the Bills could be really, really good. 

 

Have you rewatched Josh’s 2nd half of the playoff game?  While it seems to be almost universally accepted as fact that Josh “blew it” because of a couple of head scratchers, his receiving corps let him down BIG time.  He threw some absolute dimes that were dropped or misplayed.  I am super optimistic about his progression and think we’re in for a hell of a good time as Bills fans.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

Have you rewatched Josh’s 2nd half of the playoff game?  While it seems to be almost universally accepted as fact that Josh “blew it” because of a couple of head scratchers, his receiving corps let him down BIG time.  He threw some absolute dimes that were dropped or misplayed.  I am super optimistic about his progression and think we’re in for a hell of a good time as Bills fans.

 

I have watched every single game we played in 2019 back during lockdown. I thought Josh in the playoff game played very well in the first half (majorly let down by Brown and Duke) and inconsistently in the second half in a way that is sort of typical of a QB in his first playoff start who looks a bit over his skies at times. He certainly was not the main reason we lost that game. It was execution in big moments by Brown, Duke, Edmunds, Milano and the 3 blockers (Morse, Ford and Knox) out in front of that QB sweep. If any one of those 5 plays is made (and they were not 'difficult' plays in the context of an NFL game) then the Bills win. 

 

He has to get more consistent but there were half a dozen proper franchise QB performances in Josh Allen's 2019 season. If he can even just get that number to 10 in 2020 then we are very much on the right track. 

[YattaOkasan]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think three of Josh's best performances were the first three weeks. He was 63% upwards in all 3 games, he was getting the ball out quickly and he threw for over 240 yards each week. Yes, he had as many total turnovers (5 - 3 int and 2 lost fumbles) as he did total touchdowns (also 5 - 3 passing, 2 rushing) but a lot of those turnovers were real freak plays. Those 3 games, plus Dallas and twice against Miami are the 6 games that I hang my hat on in being optimistic about Josh. If we could get that version of Josh Allen 12 times out of 16 rather than 6 times out of 16 in 2020 the Bills could be really, really good. 

I would put the Denver game up there too for Josh. Conditions were miserable but he was still 60% and we kept a good lead most of the game. As I mentioned Steelers on the road would’ve been good if not for a few drops.

 

back to the original point I do think the offense got better as the season progressed and I don’t really see the case against it.   The giants game is about the only example to me. Conversely I think two games of improvement against divisional opponents on the road shows why they did improve. 
 

Do you think If we replaced our first three games with Denver Steelers and Dallas we would’ve won?  I really think the schedule makers did us a solid last year. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

I would put the Denver game up there too for Josh. Conditions were miserable but he was still 60% and we kept a good lead most of the game. As I mentioned Steelers on the road would’ve been good if not for a few drops.

 

back to the original point I do think the offense got better as the season progressed and I don’t really see the case against it.   The giants game is about the only example to me. Conversely I think two games of improvement against divisional opponents on the road shows why they did improve. 
 

Do you think If we replaced our first three games with Denver Steelers and Dallas we would’ve won?  I really think the schedule makers did us a solid last year. 

 

Probably not with the turnovers, no and Dallas were hot early. But Pittsburgh started badly as did Denver so I see no reason why we wouldn't have won those games with the offensive performances we had against the Jets, Giants and Bengals. 

 

I don't think Josh played badly as such against the Broncos but it was one of those over cautious games that followed the New England turnovers. The defense played great and the Bills offense were in "don't screw it up" mode. That was a performance I expect any NFL starting QB to be capable of. 

[nucci]

 

[YattaOkasan]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Probably not with the turnovers, no and Dallas were hot early. But Pittsburgh started badly as did Denver so I see no reason why we wouldn't have won those games with the offensive performances we had against the Jets, Giants and Bengals. 

 

I don't think Josh played badly as such against the Broncos but it was one of those over cautious games that followed the New England turnovers. The defense played great and the Bills offense were in "don't screw it up" mode. That was a performance I expect any NFL starting QB to be capable of. 

Yeah most QBs would get the job done against Denver considering they could only manage 3 points. I think it was the challenging wind conditions for why I thought Allen and offense had a pretty good day. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

I will take Allen ‘turning it on’ when it matters verse Tyrod and Fitz pooping their pants in crunch time.

[Rock'em Sock'em]

11 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

 

 

 

Didn't the Bills average 34 points against the Dolphins? What does this say about the Patriots and Eagles who lost to the Dolphins?  Also, if you are going to pick a sample of games where you have a game winning drive, by nature that sample is skewed to close games.  In this history of close games, very few could be characterized as one team putting away another team early.

 

 

[Johnnycage46]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Tyrod and Fitz had their moments here as has Josh early..... Not sure why people feel Josh is so much better than Tyrod and Fitz were here at this point in his career. It's just not true.

 

How is it not true?

[atlbillsfan1975]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Tyrod and Fitz had their moments here as has Josh early..... Not sure why people feel Josh is so much better than Tyrod and Fitz were here at this point in his career. It's just not true.

You are 100% wrong. Josh is 2 years into his career. What did Tyrod and Fitz do in their first two years in the league? 

[LABILLBACKER]

Allen will improve.  Adding Diggs and Moss to compliment Brown, Beasley, Singletary and Knox will substantially increase that 18.6 number.

[atlbillsfan1975]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Tyrod and Fitz weren't even playing 2 years into their careers.... I said through 2 years in Buffalo. 

That’s not the same thing at all and you know it. Come on. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975

[Bulldog]

3 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

You are 100% wrong. Josh is 2 years into his career. What did Tyrod and Fitz do in their first two years in the league? 

Good point - here is a quick/rough glance at Tyrod Taylor's 1st two years in the NFL versus Josh Allen's:

 

Tyrod  --- 2011 (Baltimore Ravens)  3 games played in - 1 pass completion for 2 yards - one rush for 2 yards

                2012 (Baltimore Ravens) 7 games played in - 17 completions for 179 yards - 14 rushes for 73 yard, one TD 

 

Josh - 2018 - 12 games - 169 completions for 2,074 yards & 10 TD's, 631 Yards rushing , 8 TD's

            2019 -  16 games - 271 completions for 3,089 yards & 20 TD's, 510 Yards rushing , 9 TD's

      

So Josh is no better than Tyrod after two years in the league? I am no Josh Allen apologist - I have no idea if he will develop into the QB that we hope to see - but the assertion that he is the equivalent of Tyrod after two years is ridiculous. 

 

I think I'll look up Fitzy's stats next.

 

[Bulldog]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yes this is a fair comparison. Tyrod started what? All of two games his first two years in the league? ??

 

Yes - I could have made the comparison simpler - Tyrod & Josh are not almost equivalents after two years because Tyrod had barely played at all at that point, and Josh is now a two year starter who has had some moderate success as the Bill's starting QB. .

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yes this is a fair comparison. Tyrod started what? All of two games his first two years in the league? ??

Either way you look at it you are wrong or comparing something you can’t. Let’s see where Allen is in year 5 and 6. That’s when Tyrod and Fitz  showed up here, an unwanted FA. Tyrod and Fitz had average at best seasons with the Bills, and that was after 4 years of playing in the NFL. Jeesh man. Your bias shows through on this and makes you look highly ignorant. 

[White Linen]

I agree Josh needs to get better, but IMO Daboll stinks at calling a game and McDermott doesn't trust the offense.  Part of Josh's development is overcoming those two things or they have to get better too.

[CookieG]

13 hours ago, ganesh said:

People keep saying we have a SB winning defense..yet our defense choked in the 2nd half of the wild card game to stop the Texans.  They gave up 19 straight points.   Giving up that 3rd and eternity to the RB by everyone running past the down marker is not the mark of a championship caliber defense.    This defense still does not have the necessary pass rush and also leaks like a bucket against the running game...It still needs a lot of work not withstanding the gaudy numbers on points and yards.

Shrugs. 

 

SF had what many considered the best D in the league last year and certainly one of the best pass rushes.

 

They had the Chiefs held to 10 points in the SB until the last 7 minutes. Then they gave up a 40 yard pass on a 3 and 15 and it was over. 21 points in 7 minutes.

 

It happens, even to great D's.

 

There are 2 ways to look at it.

 

Was it that SF's D needed more work? Or was it that..in the modern NFL, you can only hold a team down for so long, especially in the playoffs?

 

As far as the O goes, yeah, its no secret they have to get better. They got about as far as an O that scored 314 points can get.

 

They have to get better.

[klos63]

12 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The offense was bad against the better teams/defenses of the league... not going to work against a much harder schedule than the cupcake schedule last season.

 

Disagree with him that he was surrounded with good or decent pass catchers. Not even close.

 

 

Actually wrong.

 

I thought one of their best offensive performances came against the Giants in week 2.... the offense did not get better as the season went along.

A more consistent QB....

I think it was implied that Allen would be the one completing those passes this season better than he did last season.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I had to go back and check the box score for the Miami game becuase it sure didn't feel like there was a game winning drive in any of those two games. I knew we were down at the half in the first game. 

 

So the first game we trail 14-9 at halftime. Nobody scores for the entire 3rd quarter. Score still 14-9. Then Allen and the Bills score a 1:05 seconds into the fourth quarter to take a lead for good 17-14. By definition it is a game winning drive. But definitely doesn't feel like one.

 

The Jets game was just a joke of a game, first half really. Play that game again 10 times and Allen doesn't come close to turning the ball over 4 times in the first half. Pick six off of Beasely's hands. And for what it is worth that was probably the best team the Jets fielded for 3 quarters of football all season. 

 

I don't really have a problem with the Steelers game. We were going against a legitimate defense on the road that was playing for their season. Allen didn't have a pretty game but he didn't choke and cost us the game. It would have been interesting to see what Allen and the offense would have done had they trailed in that game by two scores at any point, but that wasn't the situation. And going against a great defense like the Steelers had it would have been a bad head coaching decision to tell the offense to push it.