Jake Fromm: Controversial comments

[17islongenough]

Why is no one talking about Fromm being called silly billy.  His names not even Bill. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said:

 

I think the idea of "cancel culture" is pretty overblown. Whose life has been ruined by a dumb mistake in choice of words? Maybe there are a handful of folks but I cannot think of one.

 

Dog park woman lost her job before the Floyd murder. That's just off the top of my head. 

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

 

I don’t think cancel culture pertains only to choice of words, but Al Franken leaps to mind as someone who got the bum’s rush over one stupid moment in his life. 

 

True - but his life certainly wasn't ruined. He lost a Senate seat. He's still got family, friends, boatloads of cash (I assume), and is respected by most people.

 

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, dorquemada said:

 

I don't even care about him as a player at this point, just tired of the pitchfork crowd coming out at every provocation.  I've told my kids (16+20) to stay the f off social media because what's acceptable today will be a hate crime tomorrow and as a society we've lost the ability to consider context or the gravity of a situation but instead focus like a laser on being able to 'gotcha' people.  It's like the virtual French Revolution.  Of course the average twitter user doesn't know anything about history so they don't know what happened to the initiators of that particular event, or for that matter the vanguard of every revolution. 

You could also help them to not be bigoted or insensitive. And maybe you are. But that would take care of the issue right there, and they'd still get to waste their time on social media like everyone else.

[Mango]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

This is bad.  The timing obviously is terrible.  But it’s vastly different from Allen’s social media issue a couple of years ago.  

 

What Allen said was dumb, but was fairly and fairly obviously characterized as a bad joke. 

 

What Fromm said has terrible undertones.  Only “elite whites” should be able to get silencers is what I understand him to have said.  Not “only elites,” but only white people with money.  And only white people with money should have access to a particular type (and, arguably, a particularly dangerous type) of weaponry.  This, of course, after what we as a society agree was at “best” the homicide of an unarmed black man by police in Minnesota about a week ago, and maybe at worst the broad daylight lynching of that man.  

 

I don’t believe in cancel culture, and I don’t believe that one dumb mistake in choice of words should ruin someone’s life.  But this is really bad, and ultimately it will be up to the locker room whether the kid sticks around. 

 

 

The "if it ain't white, it ain't right" didn't sit well with me. The rest seemed to just be song lyrics from Allen. Not defending it, but you are right, it is different. 

 

Fromm on the other hand, went out of his way to say that black people should not own guns. 

 

And to everybody saying it is a personal text. Yeah it is, and I could 100% lose my job if any of them got out. It isn't anybody's fault for reporting them. It is my fault for sending them. Like if I were to text a friend that "Jesus, my boss Jim is bat-***** crazy, POS and is making my life hell. Hope he gets hit by a car on the way home". If my boss Jim got a hold of that I could lose my job. That is nobody's fault but my own. 

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Dog park woman lost her job before the Floyd murder. That's just off the top of my head. 

 

I would argue that was way more than just a dumb mistake in a choice of words, though. 

 

Going too far down the rabbit hole.. back to Fromm

[sodbuster]

5 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I don’t think cancel culture pertains only to choice of words, but Al Franken leaps to mind as someone who got the bum’s rush over one stupid moment in his life. 

Colin Kaepernick

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

 

The "if it ain't white, it ain't right" didn't sit well with me. The rest seemed to just be song lyrics from Allen. Not defending it, but you are right, it is different. 

 

Fromm on the other hand, went out of his way to say that black people should not own guns. 

 

And to everybody saying it is a personal text. Yeah it is, and I could 100% lose my job if any of them got out. It isn't anybody's fault for reporting them. It is my fault for sending them. Like if I were to text a friend that "Jesus, my boss Jim is bat-***** crazy, POS and is making my life hell. Hope he gets hit by a car on the way home". If my boss Jim got a hold of that I could lose my job. That is nobody's fault but my own. 

Uh oh...  Jim is on TBD. You’re going to have to pack up your stuff

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

so it's from march and it got released now?

March 2019 evidently

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

This is bad.  The timing obviously is terrible.  But it’s vastly different from Allen’s social media issue a couple of years ago.  

 

What Allen said was dumb, but was fairly and fairly obviously characterized as a bad joke. 

 

What Fromm said has terrible undertones.  Only “elite whites” should be able to get silencers is what I understand him to have said.  Not “only elites,” but only white people with money.  And only white people with money should have access to a particular type (and, arguably, a particularly dangerous type) of weaponry.  This, of course, after what we as a society agree was at “best” the homicide of an unarmed black man by police in Minnesota about a week ago, and maybe at worst the broad daylight lynching of that man.  

 

I don’t believe in cancel culture, and I don’t believe that one dumb mistake in choice of words should ruin someone’s life.  But this is really bad, and ultimately it will be up to the locker room whether the kid sticks around. 

 

He meant to say either "all white people are elite" or "only white people who are elite" should be able to get suppressors.  If it's the former, it's racist.  If it's the latter, it classist.  Neither is good but one is far worse.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Doc

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

.....and if I remember correctly the scene ended with "go and sin no more".

 

I'm not a very "religious" person but that's a good lesson for everyone involved.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

The "if it ain't white, it ain't right" didn't sit well with me. The rest seemed to just be song lyrics from Allen. Not defending it, but you are right, it is different. 

 

Fromm on the other hand, went out of his way to say that black people should not own guns. 

 

And to everybody saying it is a personal text. Yeah it is, and I could 100% lose my job if any of them got out. It isn't anybody's fault for reporting them. It is my fault for sending them. Like if I were to text a friend that "Jesus, my boss Jim is bat-***** crazy, POS and is making my life hell. Hope he gets hit by a car on the way home". If my boss Jim got a hold of that I could lose my job. That is nobody's fault but my own. 

Oh look, it’s a guy who stands for the way the world ought to be now telling us how the world is.

 

Is it moral that Jake Fromm loses his job from dumb texts he sent as a kid?

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

The "if it ain't white, it ain't right" didn't sit well with me. The rest seemed to just be song lyrics from Allen. Not defending it, but you are right, it is different. 

 

Fromm on the other hand, went out of his way to say that black people should not own guns. 

 

And to everybody saying it is a personal text. Yeah it is, and I could 100% lose my job if any of them got out. It isn't anybody's fault for reporting them. It is my fault for sending them. Like if I were to text a friend that "Jesus, my boss Jim is bat-***** crazy, POS and is making my life hell. Hope he gets hit by a car on the way home". If my boss Jim got a hold of that I could lose my job. That is nobody's fault but my own. 

 

No, silencers.

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Rico said:

“silly billy” wtf

Exactly

 

What twenty something year old kids says that... If this is real who the hell is fromm hanging out with

[SectionC3]

EDIT:  This responds to Doc’s post with respect to the possible constructions of Fromm’s text. 

 

***

 

Disagree.  He didn’t intend the first for obvious reasons of construction.   (In that event he would have said simply all whites.)  He may have meant something closer to the latter, which absolutely is classist.  The racial undertones appear through the use of the qualifier “white” in that context.  If there were no racial undertones to the comment, then there would have been no need for that qualifier.  The reference to “elites” would have sufficed as an expression of classism.  So he’s left with a statement that appears to be both classist and potentially racist.  Jake has some explaining to do to that locker room. 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by SectionC3

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Oh look, it’s a guy who stands for the way the world ought to be now telling us how the world is.

 

Is it moral that Jake Fromm loses his job from dumb texts he sent as a kid?

 

Fine by me actually. 60% of the locker room is black. He said some racist stuff in the last 400 days or so. I wouldn't fault an employer for not wanting that in the room. And I wouldn't fault players for not wanting him there. 

[SectionC3]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Oh look, it’s a guy who stands for the way the world ought to be now telling us how the world is.

 

Is it moral that Jake Fromm loses his job from dumb texts he sent as a kid?

 

Capitalism doesn’t much care about morality.  If Jake’s comments are bad for business then he will be a former employee. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

Fine by me actually. 60% of the locker room is black. He said some racist stuff in the last 400 days or so. I wouldn't fault an employer for not wanting that in the room. And I wouldn't fault players for not wanting him there. 

So yes?

 

Man, I hope no one ever leaks your dumb texts.

[SectionC3]

15 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said:

 

True - but his life certainly wasn't ruined. He lost a Senate seat. He's still got family, friends, boatloads of cash (I assume), and is respected by most people.

 

 

To a point, yes.  Maybe professional life or political life would have been better put on my end.  Of course, if Franken defined his life by his Senate seat, then the broader statement would have been fair.  

 

The same logic might apply to Fromm.  The kid’s life won’t be ruined if he gets fired.  But his professional football career might be over before it started.  

[Kangaxx]

We should probably cut him sooner rather than later lol.

[DCOrange]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Oh look, it’s a guy who stands for the way the world ought to be now telling us how the world is.

 

Is it moral that Jake Fromm loses his job from dumb texts he sent as a kid?

 

This is a better question with regard to Josh Allen's tweets when he was actually a kid. Someone getting in trouble at age 21 for something they did at age 20 isn't really much of a leap. It sucks for him, but this is also why people should think more before they say/do things.

[Buffalo716]

Listen, it's obviously not right

 

But neither is some scumbag putting out private text conversations. 

 

It's not like he said I hate all people of color. The whole "make it for elite white people like me", sounds kind of off the cuff and a bad joke

 

People joke around and make mistakes, say things they shouldn't have, especially younger people

 

This is why you always have to be careful what you say, because it will take you down in 2020

 

Josh Allen used  some bad words also

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Buffalo716

[BillsDude]

What if he was poking fun at "some" of the old elite white men in Congress or elsewhere who "could be" gung ho and feel only they are entitled to guns/silencers? If this was the case, why is him critiquing that old rich boys network mentality using humor  bad? I mean, was he being honest or sarcastic? Nobody seems to be focusing on that central issue. If he was being sarcastic, its called humor, perhaps to try to show how bad such racists in power can be. No story there  then. However, if he truly feels that only rich white persons should have those items/rights, yeah, it is hard for me to even accept any apology, as you cannot change that line of thinking easily.. You can put a bandage on it, or make amends, but that may not solve everything if biases are ingrained into ones psyche.

[Warren Zevon]

Fromm can learn to be better like we all can.

 

[SectionC3]

Just now, BillsDude said:

What if he was poking fun at "some" of the old elite white men in Congress or elsewhere who "could be" gung ho and feel only they are entitled to guns/silencers? If this was the case, why is him critiquing that old rich boys network mentality using humor  bad? I mean, was he being honest or sarcastic? Nobody seems to be focusing on that central issue. If he was being sarcastic, its called humor, perhaps to try to show how bad such racists in power can be. No story there  then. However, if he truly feels that only rich white persons should have those items/rights, yeah, it is hard for me to even accept any apology, as you cannot change that line of thinking easily.. You can put a bandage on it, or make amends, but that may not solve everything if biases are ingrained into ones psyche.

 

A good point.  Context is important.  The first blush doesn’t work out well for Fromm here.  Maybe, as you have suggested, there is more to the story. 

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

EDIT:  This responds to Doc’s post with respect to the possible constructions of Fromm’s text. 

 

***

 

Disagree.  He didn’t intend the first for obvious reasons of construction.   (In that event he would have said simply all whites.)  He may have meant something closer to the latter, which absolutely is classist.  The racial undertones appear through the use of the qualifier “white” in that context.  If there were no racial undertones to the comment, then there would have been no need for that qualifier.  The reference to “elites” would have sufficed as an expression of classism.  So he’s left with a statement that appears to be both classist and potentially racist.  Jake has some explaining to do to that locker room.

 

There are probably non-elite white people (like JESSEFEFFER ) who he wouldn't want to own a gun with a silencer.  He's from Georgia, after all.

 

(I keed, I keed.  One of my best friends is from Georgia).

Edited June 4, 2020 by Doc

[Beast]

3 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

This is a better question with regard to Josh Allen's tweets when he was actually a kid. Someone getting in trouble at age 21 for something they did at age 20 isn't really much of a leap. It sucks for him, but this is also why people should think more before they say/do things.

 

So then, people that commit crimes in life should unemployable, correct?

 

I mean, if some big bad tweet disqualifies one from future employment then real crimes should be a nail in the coffin.

[Ramza86]

id hate to see fromm get cut and once people forget all about that text becomes a good starter. 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

 

So then, people that commit crimes in life should unemployable, correct?

 

I mean, if some big bad tweet disqualifies one from future employment then real crimes should be a nail in the coffin.

He can be employed. Can always go to State Farm and sell insurance. 

[BuffBillsForLife]

1 minute ago, Ramza86 said:

id hate to see fromm get cut and once people forget all about that text becomes a good starter. 

Belicheck has him on speed dial. 

 

Jake Fromm, future HoF QB for the New England Patriots.

[Doc]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Doubtful.... guys a back up QB in this league at best. 

 

Yeah and the Bills were tanking in 2017.

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, BillsDude said:

What if he was poking fun at "some" of the old elite white men in Congress or elsewhere who "could be" gung ho and feel only they are entitled to guns/silencers? If this was the case, why is him critiquing that old rich boys network mentality using humor  bad? I mean, was he being honest or sarcastic? Nobody seems to be focusing on that central issue. If he was being sarcastic, its called humor, perhaps to try to show how bad such racists in power can be. No story there  then. However, if he truly feels that only rich white persons should have those items/rights, yeah, it is hard for me to even accept any apology, as you cannot change that line of thinking easily.. You can put a bandage on it, or make amends, but that may not solve everything if biases are ingrained into ones psyche.

 

3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

A good point.  Context is important.  The first blush doesn’t work out well for Fromm here.  Maybe, as you have suggested, there is more to the story. 

 

 

His apology probably would have been different and would have given the context that he was actually mocking old white men and the government. But it didn't. He apologized for insinuating that HE was an elitist white man. But did NOT apologize for insinuating that elite white men should only have access to suppressors.

 

""I am extremely sorry that I chose to use the words 'elite white person' in a text message conversation," Fromm said in a statement posted to Twitter on Thursday afternoon. "Although I never meant to imply that I am an 'elite white person,' as later stated in the conversation, there's no excuse for that word choice and sentiment."

[SectionC3]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It's bad all around... if he stays the franchise is going have an image of "that's the the team that kept the racist QB".... and I can't imagine his teammates would be happy with the coach, GM or Owner for keeping him aboard.

 

I'd bet he gets released. 

 

Yeah I’m with you.  Maybe they can suspend him or keep him out of team activities and try to let it cool down.  But it’s a tough spot for him, his teammates, and the team.  

[DCOrange]

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

So then, people that commit crimes in life should unemployable, correct?

 

I mean, if some big bad tweet disqualifies one from future employment then real crimes should be a nail in the coffin.

 

I'm not saying it SHOULD cost him his job. I'm just saying the idea that doing something at 20 and getting punished at 21 isn't really a big deal if the crime is serious enough to warrant it.

 

You also frankly have to live with different standards when you're living in the public eye; one of the costs of fame.

Edited June 4, 2020 by DCOrange

[SectionC3]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

 

His apology probably would have been different and would have given the context that he was actually mocking old white men and the government. But it didn't. He apologized for insinuating that HE was an elitist white man. But did NOT apologize for insinuating that elite white men should only have access to suppressors.

 

""I am extremely sorry that I chose to use the words 'elite white person' in a text message conversation," Fromm said in a statement posted to Twitter on Thursday afternoon. "Although I never meant to imply that I am an 'elite white person,' as later stated in the conversation, there's no excuse for that word choice and sentiment."

 

I’m not sure how much the apology helps him.   As noted, if his comments were solely based on class, why add the “white” qualifier?  And if there was something in the conversation not apparent from screenshots (e.g., sarcasm or an ill-advised attempt at humor), we probably would have learned of it in the apology.  I read the apology as ignoring the elephant in the room, which is the question of racial undertones.  He tried to sidestep the issue, and I wonder how helpful his apology will be.  

[HappyDays]

Tre White retweeted this... this could get awkward.

 

 

[dubs]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

If he said it, it's a problem, even if he was joking. 

lol

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

Just now, HappyDays said:

Tre White retweeted this... this could get awkward.

 

 

So what is he supposed to do, Jamal?

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

This is where keeping him becomes an issue.

 

I just read what Leslie Frazier said about the incident, and I thought Fromm might be OK.  Now it seems like the All-Pro corner, who is well liked in the locker room, has a big issue with the kid.  Not good for Jake.  

[GoBills808]

Too bad kid but White>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fromm