Rams stadium needs 500 mill more .. hopefully portends well for our situation..

[billsfan_34]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, and im normally a pretty optimistic guy. The odds of the Bills getting a new stadium are slimmer and slimmer as each day passes. NYS is bankrupt and through many many conversations with people a max exodus is going to occur. On average, 50k leave the state, 30k come in. Out of the 30k that come in around 22-25k are not US citizens or NY residents- the majority are on medicaid, welfare, food stamps, heap, and all other forms of subsidies.

 

The cost of living, even in Western NY is shooting through the roof and it is unsustainable. The tax base will be diminished. I know much of this because I work for the largest medicaid/medicare insurance company- 2 million members with a large chunk here in NY. If you would like to know more about the fraud and wasteful spending, inbox me.

[Cripple Creek]

20 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

The entire stadium was built for 1.15 Billion and the Rams need 500 million just to finish the project.

Have we figured out how this is a good thing for the Bills?

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

The entire stadium was built for 1.15 Billion and the Rams need 500 million just to finish the project.

Cowboys stadium was ten years ago.

 

Cowboys stadium was built in Texas not California.

 

Cowboys stadium is just a football stadium whereas the Rams stadium is actually multiple venues.

[uticaclub]

On 5/14/2020 at 3:32 PM, Happy said:

 

Really they should be content with moving back to SD.  Hopefully there is enough of that bridge left that they can cross back over.

Not a chance they move back to SD, no one really cared when they left and New Era is Jerry World compared to the dump Qualcomm stadium.

[Happy]

2 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Not a chance they move back to SD, no one really cared when they left and New Era is Jerry World compared to the dump Qualcomm stadium.

 

Thanks.  Another poster mentioned the Chargers signed a 20 year lease on the new stadium in LA.  I'm guessing years of being ok to slightly above average wore SD fans down since the good weather and a geographically abundant state gives them more to do than watch football.

[uticaclub]

2 minutes ago, Happy said:

 

Thanks.  Another poster mentioned the Chargers signed a 20 year lease on the new stadium in LA.  I'm guessing years of being ok to slightly above average wore SD fans down since the good weather and a geographically abundant state gives them more to do than watch football.

That and its a transplant city. On Sundays you would see almost every team represented when you go out to bars & locals would ask what time the Charger game was. There was a vote for a new stadium that would have only had a 2% hotel tax and it was shut down. 

[RiotAct]

3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, and im normally a pretty optimistic guy. The odds of the Bills getting a new stadium are slimmer and slimmer as each day passes.

Darn!!!

[ExWNYer]

On 5/14/2020 at 6:34 PM, without a drought said:

Urinals, how barbaric.

 

It's gold bidets.

 

My arse, it is!

 

On 5/14/2020 at 6:53 PM, Augie said:

 

We’ve come a long way from sharing the sinks! 

 

I think we can blame this more on COVID-19 than on gold bidets. 

[Greg S]

The Bills and their fans are better off at New Era. As a Bills fan living in NJ (also a Jets season ticket holder) I can personally say new stadiums aren't all that great. MetLife is a POS. Every Jets/Giants fan that I know would take Giants Stadium back in a NY minute. The cost of my seasons going from Giants Stadium to MetLife went from $1700 to $3700 per year. Enjoy New Era as its one of the few places where real fans can still afford to go to the games. Both the Jets-Giants lost a lot of their fans from attending as it became to expensive. Many who go are part of the corporate crowd. Neither team has a homefield advantage anymore.  KC renovated Arrowhead. Chicago did the same to Soldier Field. Why can't the Bills do the same to New Era?

[mjd1001]

I don't know where the money is going to be done, but the more time goes on the more that I think that something MAJOR needs to be done with regard to the stadium.  That is either a new stadium, or a major, MAJOR renovation to the current one.

 

The NFL just isn't likely to put up with the "couple hundred million dollar" maintenance with slight improvements much longer.  These new stadiums...they are major big-deal palaces.  And its not just the NFL stadiums...look around the world at the new major soccer stadiums being built...and the new nba/nhl arenas that are being built or planned.  It isn't just about revenue generation either. Sure, that is part of it...but I don't think the NFL wants the Bills to be hosting an AFC championship game in 5 years from now and have media/attention from the entire world showcasing a stadium that is just 'slightly' nicer than what is here now.  

 

Many/most fans who go to the games...they are happy with the stadium just how it is...and it truly is good enough....the the NFL billionaire owners don't care much about how good of sightlines the fans have..they care about money, and prestige, and image...etc.

 

They want convenience also. They want nice hotels and/or entertainment nearby....Plus Almost every new recent stadium has either been build in a downtown area (Atlanta, Minnesota)...or right near an airport (within a couple of miles, Vegas,  L.A.).....or both (New York). 

 

I just read recently the rumored new Stadium for the panthers in Charlotte is going to be downtown also (not too far from the current stadium). In DC, Snyder has been on record recently he wants a new dome stadium surround by hotels, retail, and restaurants (probably like Patriot place in Boston).  

 

I admit, Buffalo isn't any of these places, but there is going to be a big push/expectation for more than  just a 'moderate' refresh of the current stadium in the current location.

Edited May 18, 2020 by mjd1001

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

It isn't just about revenue generation either. Sure, that is part of it...but I don't think the NFL wants the Bills to be hosting an AFC championship game in 5 years from now and have media/attention from the entire world showcasing a stadium that is just 'slightly' nicer than what is here now.  

 

So you are saying what many have said and NFL denies.  NFL tries to manipulate outcome so those who do not have higher priced stadiums, whether native fans and businesses can afford such stadiums, only go to high profile games as visitors.

 

Personally I think teams which are denied Superbowls should be given advantage in drafts. NFL is clearly prejudiced to such teams.

[papazoid]

even before Covid....i was thinking that the year 2030 would be the earliest a new stadium would be built.

 

now the state is essentially bankrupt.....i'd say 2040 is a more likely earliest date now.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

 

 

They want convenience also. They want nice hotels and/or entertainment nearby....Plus Almost every new recent stadium has either been build in a downtown area (Atlanta, Minnesota)...or right near an airport (within a couple of miles, Vegas,  L.A.).....or both (New York). 

 

 

 

 

East Rutherford, NJ isn't in or near a downtown area.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

So you are saying what many have said and NFL denies.  NFL tries to manipulate outcome so those who do not have higher priced stadiums, whether native fans and businesses can afford such stadiums, only go to high profile games as visitors.

 

Personally I think teams which are denied Superbowls should be given advantage in drafts. NFL is clearly prejudiced to such teams.

 

 

"Denied"  Super Bowls?  Which teams are those?

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/with-stadiums-closed-municipalities-struggle-with-billions-in-debt/ar-BB1516oC

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by \GoBillsInDallas/

[Greg S]

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 2:16 PM, papazoid said:

even before Covid....i was thinking that the year 2030 would be the earliest a new stadium would be built.

 

now the state is essentially bankrupt.....i'd say 2040 is a more likely earliest date now.

 

Do what the Chiefs and Bears did and just make upgrades to the stadium when the time comes. I know the Bills recently upgraded the stadium a few years ago. The only thing wrong with New Era is it was built in the 70's so it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of a new stadium (bars, restaurants, shops, more luxury boxes) that the owners want.

[PromoTheRobot]

11 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Do what the Chiefs and Bears did and just make upgrades to the stadium when the time comes. I know the Bills recently upgraded the stadium a few years ago. The only thing wrong with New Era is it was built in the 70's so it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of a new stadium (bars, restaurants, shops, more luxury boxes) that the owners want.

 

Lol, do you know what they did in Chicago? They didn't slap a coat of paint on it. They built a completely new stadium, but kept the old facade. Cost about $630 million in 2002. That would be $900 million in today's dollars.

Edited June 4, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[Greg S]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Lol, do you know what they did in Chicago? They didn't slap a coat of paint on it. They built a completely new stadium, but kept the old facade. Cost about a billion dollars.

 

I didn't know it cost that much. What about the Chiefs then?

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

I didn't know it cost that much. What about the Chiefs then?

 

I updated the Soldiers field numbers. Take a look at my post.

 

Arrowhead reno cost $425 million in 2007. That's $525 million today.

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I updated the Soldiers field numbers. Take a look at my post.

 

Arrowhead reno cost $425 million in 2007. That's $525 million today.

 

Thanks for the update. I can't see the Bills getting a new stadium anytime soon with everything going on in NY. Unless the Pegula's want to do the heavy lifting financially (they don't) then New Era it is. I am fine with that as the real fans and not the corporate crowd can still afford to go to the games. I have seasons to the Jets and have been to many Giants games as well. Both teams lost their homefield advantage by pricing many of their fans out. They have the corporate crowd at MetLife. I personally miss Giants Stadium. Their wasn't a bad seat in the house there. Like New Era it was built in the 70's and didn't have all the luxury's of a new stadium.

[PromoTheRobot]

44 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Thanks for the update. I can't see the Bills getting a new stadium anytime soon with everything going on in NY. Unless the Pegula's want to do the heavy lifting financially (they don't) then New Era it is. I am fine with that as the real fans and not the corporate crowd can still afford to go to the games. I have seasons to the Jets and have been to many Giants games as well. Both teams lost their homefield advantage by pricing many of their fans out. They have the corporate crowd at MetLife. I personally miss Giants Stadium. Their wasn't a bad seat in the house there. Like New Era it was built in the 70's and didn't have all the luxury's of a new stadium.

 

I agree recent events have taken the pressure off for a new Bills stadium for a while. Not that New Era will last forever, mind you. It will be 50 years old in 2023 when the current lease expires. My seats are in the upper deck and I can feel the thing shaking when fans are jumping.

 

But with stadium cost issues in Los Angeles and the financial impact of the pandemic, it would be a bad look for the NFL to harp on the Pegulas and the state for a new stadium.

 

2021 would have been the year any new stadium would have to be announced, figuring a two year construction period. Instead I see a lease extension in the cards. Maybe new stadium talk starts again in 5 years or so.

[boater]

On 5/18/2020 at 7:12 AM, billsfan_34 said:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, and im normally a pretty optimistic guy. The odds of the Bills getting a new stadium are slimmer and slimmer as each day passes. NYS is bankrupt and through many many conversations with people a max exodus is going to occur. On average, 50k leave the state, 30k come in. Out of the 30k that come in around 22-25k are not US citizens or NY residents- the majority are on medicaid, welfare, food stamps, heap, and all other forms of subsidies.

 

The cost of living, even in Western NY is shooting through the roof and it is unsustainable. The tax base will be diminished. I know much of this because I work for the largest medicaid/medicare insurance company- 2 million members with a large chunk here in NY. If you would like to know more about the fraud and wasteful spending, inbox me.

Well that was cheerful.

 

He's not wrong.

[1ManRaid]

On 5/14/2020 at 4:30 PM, dwight in philly said:

it portrays how the zeal for stadia in the NFL  may have reached its zenith .. now back  to realism 

That's what I figured just from the title without even having to read the article, I don't see how that's so hard to understand.  Whenever the powers that be throw their regularly scheduled hissy fit at Buffalo to build a new stadium, the Pegulas just have to point to these inflated costs.

 

These big construction projects are just too loosely regulated with too many back alley kickbacks for there not to be corruption.  In Montreal where the mob basically runs construction, you're lucky if your costs only balloon to triple the original budget.  Even my humble little city of 133,000 isn't immune to millions lost to embezzlement with the bridge refurbishment we did.  Contract got outsourced to a non-local company who predictably bilked our region for every penny they could leading to investigations and whatnot.

[billsfan_34]

8 hours ago, boater said:

Well that was cheerful.

 

He's not wrong.

Right? Its sad really, but it is also reality.

[BigDingus]

I think the virus "portends" well for our situation if anything... 

How many owners are going to be hijacking their fanbases & local governments for handouts while pushing for a new stadium when there's so much uncertainty with future stadium attendance?

Sure, some people will still go regardless of the possible risks, but plenty of others will hold out until they know cramming together with 60k-70k other people in a confined area won't just be a contamination breeding ground. 

Who's going to pay for those PSL's when people rather just watch safely at home on TV? Why build a multi-billion dollar stadium that's possibly going to sit half empty because people don't want to spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars in a s*** economy to sit with potentially infected people jammed tightly together? Seems risky...and a good reason for the Bills to hold off for now.

[Charles Romes]

On 5/14/2020 at 4:24 PM, jeremy2020 said:

I think it's safe to say that any construction project of this measure should take the highest estimate and triple it. Can anyone point to a stadium that didn't have cost overruns?

 

Heinz field and Foxboro stadium were both brought in for about 350 and are great outdoor few frills facilities.  No one is on these teams back 24/7 about going broke to build a new stadium.  

[machine gun kelly]

The other owners and Goodell are going to have an awful time trying to push Buffalo to build a new stadium.  That’s a PR nightmare, and yes once there is a vaccine, they’ll try, but as much as I think the Pegulas will want to build downtown, it makes a heck of a more sense sinking a couple hundred million into new era.  They can easily build out those nice restaurants and amenities as long as the structure is still sound.

[aristocrat]

I still don’t know what portends means

[PromoTheRobot]

11 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

I still don’t know what portends means

 

por·tend

/pôrˈtend/

Learn to pronounce

 

verb

3rd person present: portends

1. be a sign or warning that (something, especially something momentous or calamitous) is likely to happen.

   "the eclipses portend some major events"

24 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

The other owners and Goodell are going to have an awful time trying to push Buffalo to build a new stadium.  That’s a PR nightmare, and yes once there is a vaccine, they’ll try, but as much as I think the Pegulas will want to build downtown, it makes a heck of a more sense sinking a couple hundred million into new era.  They can easily build out those nice restaurants and amenities as long as the structure is still sound.

 

Disagree. And there are reasons why sinking a billion (and it would be a billion) into a reno is a bad idea. 

 

There will be a new stadium eventually, likely downtown, but current events have pushed that at least ten more years into the future.

Edited June 9, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

 

Heinz field and Foxboro stadium were both brought in for about 350 and are great outdoor few frills facilities.  No one is on these teams back 24/7 about going broke to build a new stadium.  

 

Heinz Field cost $281MM in 2000. That's $374MM in 2020 dollars. This figure does not include cost of Three Rivers Stadium demolition.

 

Gillette Stadium cost $351MM in 2001, $509MM in 2020$. not including highway improvements.

 

Patriot Place cost $356MM in 2007. $440MM in 2020$.

 

You might as well stay at New Era than spend half a billion on an open-air stadium near a lake known for gale-force winds and lake effect snow.

[Charles Romes]

22 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Heinz Field cost $281MM in 2000. That's $374MM in 2020 dollars. This figure does not include cost of Three Rivers Stadium demolition.

 

Gillette Stadium cost $351MM in 2001, $509MM in 2020$. not including highway improvements.

 

Patriot Place cost $356MM in 2007. $440MM in 2020$.

 

You might as well stay at New Era than spend half a billion on an open-air stadium near a lake known for gale-force winds and lake effect snow.

yes, then you do the KC stadium facelift on the cheap for 250 and everyone is off our back.  Maybe a well placed wind wall or two to cut down the orchard park wind a little.  I heard the stadium was originally supposed to be oriented 90 degrees from the current angle for wind blocking but they discovered a cemetery when digging.  

Edited June 9, 2020 by Charles Romes

[Orlando Tim]

28 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

yes, then you do the KC stadium facelift on the cheap for 250 and everyone is off our back.  Maybe a well placed wind wall or two to cut down the orchard park wind a little.  I heard the stadium was originally supposed to be oriented 90 degrees from the current angle for wind blocking but they discovered a cemetery when digging.  

I am probably the only other person on here who actually thought it was odd how they placed the field. It is called a "north south" runner because fields used to be oriented that way.  A part of me wants to keep it the way it is because I love the wind, as long as I am not in the upper deck 

[T master]

On 5/14/2020 at 3:55 PM, Seasons1992 said:

Considering NYS is now in a $61B hole, there are two things that will happen with any new stadium:

 

1. Pegula's are paying for it 100%.

2. They retrofit New Era as-is. 

 

There's no way in the next 3-5 years they would consider building a brand new place.

 

True Dat especially seeing as the state is still paying off the debt of the new Yankee's stadium, Mets new stadium, and the Nets new arena they have to wait until that is paid for and i'll along with some others will be long gone before the Bills ever see any monies for a new stadium .

 

Thats part of why the Bills always get put on the back burner because of the black hole that is NYC . 

[machine gun kelly]

4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

por·tend

/pôrˈtend/

Learn to pronounce

 

verb

3rd person present: portends

1. be a sign or warning that (something, especially something momentous or calamitous) is likely to happen.

   "the eclipses portend some major events"

 

Disagree. And there are reasons why sinking a billion (and it would be a billion) into a reno is a bad idea. 

 

There will be a new stadium eventually, likely downtown, but current events have pushed that at least ten more years into the future.

 

PTR, I agree on the 10 years thing, just not 2 years.  We’ll see my friend.

[Billl]

45 minutes ago, T master said:

 

True Dat especially seeing as the state is still paying off the debt of the new Yankee's stadium, Mets new stadium, and the Nets new arena they have to wait until that is paid for and i'll along with some others will be long gone before the Bills ever see any monies for a new stadium .

 

Thats part of why the Bills always get put on the back burner because of the black hole that is NYC . 

How is NYC a black hole?  They pay all the taxes.

[aristocrat]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

por·tend

/pôrˈtend/

Learn to pronounce

 

verb

3rd person present: portends

1. be a sign or warning that (something, especially something momentous or calamitous) is likely to happen.

   "the eclipses portend some major events"

 

Disagree. And there are reasons why sinking a billion (and it would be a billion) into a reno is a bad idea. 

 

There will be a new stadium eventually, likely downtown, but current events have pushed that at least ten more years into the future.

 

thank you now i'm caught up

[billsfan89]

On 5/18/2020 at 8:51 AM, Greg S said:

The Bills and their fans are better off at New Era. As a Bills fan living in NJ (also a Jets season ticket holder) I can personally say new stadiums aren't all that great. MetLife is a POS. Every Jets/Giants fan that I know would take Giants Stadium back in a NY minute. The cost of my seasons going from Giants Stadium to MetLife went from $1700 to $3700 per year. Enjoy New Era as its one of the few places where real fans can still afford to go to the games. Both the Jets-Giants lost a lot of their fans from attending as it became to expensive. Many who go are part of the corporate crowd. Neither team has a homefield advantage anymore.  KC renovated Arrowhead. Chicago did the same to Soldier Field. Why can't the Bills do the same to New Era?

 

I agree that the costs of a new stadium aren't worth the "upgrades" (most upgrades are things they charge you to experience) but MetLife is a better stadium not necessarily worth the extra money but it is better. Mainly because the Giants Stadium concourses were so small and the bathrooms so rundown.

 

Getting out onto the concourse was always a traffic jam while the bathrooms were smelly and always clogging due to the run down plumbing of the stadium. MetLife has wider concourses and better facilities.

 

I do agree that renovations are a better avenue for the Bill's. Cheaper and more sensible.

 

[vincec]

On 5/14/2020 at 5:12 PM, Just Joshin' said:

The bids go in low then the change orders drive up the cost.

Not 200% lol.  Change orders are usually 10% or so on publicly bid projects.

 

Reading between the lines of the article, I would guess That the $5+ billion dollar number includes the retail and entertainment district while the original $2.2 billion was just for the stadium.

Edited June 9, 2020 by vincec

[JohnC]

11 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

por·tend

/pôrˈtend/

Learn to pronounce

 

verb

3rd person present: portends

1. be a sign or warning that (something, especially something momentous or calamitous) is likely to happen.

   "the eclipses portend some major events"

 

Disagree. And there are reasons why sinking a billion (and it would be a billion) into a reno is a bad idea. 

 

There will be a new stadium eventually, likely downtown, but current events have pushed that at least ten more years into the future.

Although there has been a stall on development due to pandemic I don't see a stadium being built downtown ten or more years from now. Although there is still some open space that could eventually be developed downtown and near the waterfront steadily those areas are being filled with a variety of projects. As these smaller projects  materialize there will be less adaptable locations with enough room for a large stadium to fit in. The landscape has dramatically changed from both a financial and urban development standpoint. As time goes on the city option declines. 

[PromoTheRobot]

41 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Although there has been a stall on development due to pandemic I don't see a stadium being built downtown ten or more years from now. Although there is still some open space that could eventually be developed downtown and near the waterfront steadily those areas are being filled with a variety of projects. As these smaller projects  materialize there will be less adaptable locations with enough room for a large stadium to fit in. The landscape has dramatically changed from both a financial and urban development standpoint. As time goes on the city option declines. 

 

Here's why I think downtown is inevitable. Because the Pegulas have the start of their own Patriot Place in Canalside. A new stadium has to have a structure of retail development for a vital revenue stream. If you stay in OP you have to build that retail from scratch, so it ends up costing you more in the end, and you cannabalize your Canalside development.

Edited June 10, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Here's why I think downtown is inevitable. Because the Pegulas have the start of their own Patriot Place in Canalside. A new stadium has to have a structure of retail development for a vital revenue stream. If you stay in OP you have to build that retail from scratch, so it ends up costing you more in the end, and you cannabalize your Canalside development.

Retail is dead.