A Good Read On AJ Epenesa

[DCofNC]

54 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

To me, he doesnt move as fluidly as you'd like a DE to be.  Perhaps he's just a power guy and that's what I'm seeing.  I don't have a professional football eye, but I have watched a lot of football in my time.  He just does not move as quickly as you would like a stud DE to move, does not seem very explosive.  

 

He could very well turn into the next JJ Watt, take what I say with a grain of salt, just some observations from an armchair ameture evaluator of NFL talent.  

You aren't far off, he doesn't have the "bend" that the elite speed rushers have.  You don't see his upper body ripping around the corner, he is a little stiff.  That said, hes strong as a bull and only going to get stronger, weighs 275 and probably could go up 10lbs in his legs and really cause problems for opponents.  His upper body and hands are great, his attitude is great and his instincts are exciting, he goes for the ball first, something nobody for the Bills in recent history has really done. I love that.  He's a lot like Shaq in terms of what he will bring, except way more effort, every day.  I think Shaq is a bit more flexible, but it never translated.  I ne er understood taking Shaq where they did, basically, they took Shaqs replacement where Shaq should have been taken to start with.

[RyanC883]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

And he was available at 58 why?  Quickness?

 

poor combine.  slow 40.  DL dont need a fast 40, IMo.  

[BuffaloRebound]

He has potential to be really good.  Naturally big, powerful and athletic dude.  Comes down to how good he wants to be.  That’s why his combine performance probably dropped him so much.  It’s not the numbers themselves but rather whether it reveals how hard he wants to work to be great.  Hopefully he’s a guy that just wasn’t into the underwear Olympics and will use his drop in the draft as motivation.  

[poblano]

This is the player to whom I compare it, he lacks initial explosiveness, but with strength enough to make up for it.

[MrEpsYtown]

31 minutes ago, poblano said:

This is the player to whom I compare it, he lacks initial explosiveness, but with strength enough to make up for it.

It’s a good comp in terms of their style of play, but Justin Smith blew up the combine, so he was a ridiculous athlete at a large size. He ran faster than Zach Moss with a 4.64. Smith was a little smaller and had pretty short arms. But play style was similar, Smith just a bit smaller and more explosive. 

[Richard Noggin]

Love the first few comments following the linked article:

 

WeaBootyWarrior8 months ago

Led B1G in sacks as a non starter? What the *****? Why didn’t they start him?

 

                  kingricky8 months ago

                 @WeaBootyWarrior my thoughts exactly

 

                                    WeaBootyWarrior8 months ago

                                    @kingricky Like...That’s bad coaching, isn’t it? I don’t care who’s in front of him, if the dude is a baller, he’s starting ?

[finn]

9 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

And this says he is not quite JJ Watt.  I will take almost JJWatt.  https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2878147-nfl-scouting-combine-notebook-did-aj-epenesa-crater-his-draft-stock

 

Watching video tonight, the guy plays like a monster.  

 

That body and that attitude. Looks like a great value at 58.  Goodness 

Reminds me more of Mean Joe Greene, for the old timers out there. Same size, ferocity, power and relentlessness. 

[mannc]

9 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I don't know how to judge it when some of the lineman were clearly so overmatched.

You mean, like Austin Jackson, the Phins’ new franchise left tackle?

[HamSandwhich]

8 hours ago, DCofNC said:

You aren't far off, he doesn't have the "bend" that the elite speed rushers have.  You don't see his upper body ripping around the corner, he is a little stiff.  That said, hes strong as a bull and only going to get stronger, weighs 275 and probably could go up 10lbs in his legs and really cause problems for opponents.  His upper body and hands are great, his attitude is great and his instincts are exciting, he goes for the ball first, something nobody for the Bills in recent history has really done. I love that.  He's a lot like Shaq in terms of what he will bring, except way more effort, every day.  I think Shaq is a bit more flexible, but it never translated.  I ne er understood taking Shaq where they did, basically, they took Shaqs replacement where Shaq should have been taken to start with.

I sure hope you're right! 

9 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

He seems to play like Watt, who also doesn't look like a classic DE.  He's just a relentless big athlete.  Not Watt's strength or quickness, but similar style. 

 

Who knows?  I just like the size and intensity. 

I always felt like Watt was more fluid, he was just a freak of nature.  Maybe I need to go back and watch more Watt footage. 

[badassgixxer05]

8 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

poor combine.  slow 40.  DL dont need a fast 40, IMo.  

Its more his 10yard split time teams were concerned about which relates to explosiveness off the line. But thats not his game. He reminds me more of an old school DE. 6-5 275lbs that uses strength and pass rush moves to get to QB. Execs are so in love with the quick first step guys that can fly in off the edge, but what you miss with a lot of those guys (that Epenesa will bring) is run stopping ability and containment on the edge. For a guy that timed so slow I cant seem to remember any coach trying to attack his side thinking the rb could just run right past him. The guy is a monster and swallowed teams up all year. And from what all his coaches are saying, hes still pretty raw and is only going to get better with more playing time and NFL coaching. Go Bills!

Edited April 27, 2020 by badassgixxer05

[GaryPinC]

9 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

He seems to play like Watt, who also doesn't look like a classic DE.  He's just a relentless big athlete.  Not Watt's strength or quickness, but similar style. 

 

Who knows?  I just like the size and intensity. 

Epenesa was noticeably dominant starting for the Hawkeye defense last year, both on running and passing plays.  He's not flashy and knifes to the ball with a couple of excellent hand moves.  He also is hyper-aware of where the ball is and makes good use of his length, especially in finishing.  I'm a Penn State fan and he was dominating, but also watched him do it in other games.  

 

I think he fell because of the combine and also because he played at Iowa.  They don't get on the national radar a lot, especially not playing the Buckeyes the last 2 years.

 

Looking forward to him working with Hughes on moves and if Bruce visits hopefully shares some tips.  I don't think AJ will be elite but should be better than Shaq.  I expect him to struggle a bit to NFL adjust.

[Might Rather]

Thanks for the great read. Should be a great fit.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

He starting to make me think that you might need at least 2 Samoans on the D-Line. 

[billspro]

I do see some similarities to Watt. Especially rushing from the inside. He is a poor mans Watt though. I think he will be good but not NFL MVP good. 

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, billspro said:

I do see some similarities to Watt. Especially rushing from the inside. He is a poor mans Watt though. I think he will be good but not NFL MVP good. 

Yeah, he's not Watt.   He's not quite the athlete that Watt is.   What I like best is that he plays with Watt's intensity.  

 

And he was a three-sport star in high school, and a five-star recruit.   He's a football player, for sure. 

[stuvian]

must have been written by his agent

[Big Turk]

Every time I hear his name all I can think of is that song I'm Turning Japanese by The Vapors

[YoloinOhio]

18 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think they have some similarities, but Watt is a slightly more athletic guy. Better 40 and 3 cone and just a bit more speed in his pass rush game. 

Probably but let’s see him in a nfl S&C program, I could see those things improving. I always look at prospects going back to HS because I follow recruiting so closely. Epenesa was the #1 ranked DE in the country in the 2017 class, 5 star recruit and was top 30 overall all positions. Iowa doesn’t get many 5 stars but his parents were alums and he wanted to go there. He had offers from every school you can think of including Bama, FSU, Michigan, Notre Dame, USC etc. Watt was a walk on who clearly made the most of it. I think he’s like Shaq in that he’s power vs speed but his technique and hands remind me of Joey Bosa. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[jimmy10]

Was he compared to JJ Watt? I skimmed the article, but I only think I read that he models his game on Watt. Big difference. 
 

edit: ok, I see now where one scout says “he has some Watt” in his game. 
 

No matter who makes the comparisons or not, I just prefer to let these guys be themselves, and not obsess over comparisons. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by jimmy10

[iinii]

15 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

It's not gonna happen. Schobel had the speed move which was effective when he could get by clean, but the tackle gets a hand on him going wide, he was out of the play. The classic Schobel highlight was of him re-entering the TV screen running back toward the pocket from behind as the ball is being thrown. Epenesa has an initial punch harder than Schobel with a horseshoe taped to his hand. They're not at all similar.

 

Epenesa is a big end with length, power and a relentness motor which is more of a throwback to a classic 3-4 strong-side end. The past Bill who's the closest comp to that description is IMO Ben Williams with his (relative for his time) length and power, flanking Smerlas in the 70s/80s. If he busts you can say Ryan Denney instead.

That is what I have been sensing. He is not a flashy edge rusher who blows by the tackle but more of a hold the edge and collapse the pocket guy. 

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, jimmy10 said:

Was he compared to JJ Watt? I skimmed the article, but I only think I read that he models his game on Watt. Big difference. 

He models his game after him. He was compared to Carlos Dunlap.

[Orlando Tim]

7 hours ago, mannc said:

You mean, like Austin Jackson, the Phins’ new franchise left tackle?

I honestly do not know what to make of that since AJ kicked his butt all over the field but somehow Jackson is better? 

[YoloinOhio]

6 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said:

Its more his 10yard split time teams were concerned about which relates to explosiveness off the line. But thats not his game. He reminds me more of an old school DE. 6-5 275lbs that uses strength and pass rush moves to get to QB. Execs are so in love with the quick first step guys that can fly in off the edge, but what you miss with a lot of those guys (that Epenesa will bring) is run stopping ability and containment on the edge. For a guy that timed so slow I cant seem to remember any coach trying to attack his side thinking the rb could just run right past him. The guy is a monster and swallowed teams up all year. And from what all his coaches are saying, hes still pretty raw and is only going to get better with more playing time and NFL coaching. Go Bills!

Good read on his combine here and the context around it. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2878147-nfl-scouting-combine-notebook-did-aj-epenesa-crater-his-draft-stock.amp.html

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

17 hours ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

To me the closest comparison is Carlos Dunlap.  Should be fun to watch him and root for him over the next few years.

 

Dunlaps a pretty good player too.  8-10 sack guy with a few forced fumbles. 

 

Dunlaps good with his gaps too, seems to shrug off tackles and make plays in the backfield too.  

[YoloinOhio]

17 hours ago, DCofNC said:

You aren't far off, he doesn't have the "bend" that the elite speed rushers have.  You don't see his upper body ripping around the corner, he is a little stiff.  That said, hes strong as a bull and only going to get stronger, weighs 275 and probably could go up 10lbs in his legs and really cause problems for opponents.  His upper body and hands are great, his attitude is great and his instincts are exciting, he goes for the ball first, something nobody for the Bills in recent history has really done. I love that.  He's a lot like Shaq in terms of what he will bring, except way more effort, every day.  I think Shaq is a bit more flexible, but it never translated.  I ne er understood taking Shaq where they did, basically, they took Shaqs replacement where Shaq should have been taken to start with.

I think some compare him to other speed rushers or “EDGE” guys when that’s not really who he is. He wins with power, technique, hands vs speed off the edge. Similar to Shaq in terms of type of DE but i think epenesa is a better player with a higher ceiling. I think moving him inside next to Oliver on passing downs would be awesome. 

[Bigvinny]

22 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

And he was available at 58 why?  Quickness?

 

I think he Had a rough combine. That prompted Brandon Beane to make a comment about the combine not measuring your heart.

[Mr. WEO]

Freakin bleacher report!!!

 

 

Oh wait...I didn't get the new script.  

 

Yay bleacher report?

[HappyDays]

Every interview I've seen of him post-draft, he seems devastated that he dropped as far as he did. He brings it up in every interview. That's a player I want on my team. McDermott knows how to channel that frustration into growth.

[Punching Bag]

11 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think some compare him to other speed rushers or “EDGE” guys when that’s not really who he is. He wins with power, technique, hands vs speed off the edge. Similar to Shaq in terms of type of DE but i think epenesa is a better player with a higher ceiling. I think moving him inside next to Oliver on passing downs would be awesome. 

 

I think swapping him with Oliver on passing downs works well.

[Buddo]

I think we were lucky to get him there.

 

I'd also say that the situation helped him fall. Teams concerned about his combine numbers, didn't get to see them improve in a workout, so likely didn't necessarily return to his tape, or didn't really look hard enough at it.

 

An interesting comment from his opponents was that he bursts off the ball. I don't think they necessarily mean a first step, rather that he is at you immediately. A subtle distinction, but one nonetheless.

 

At times, and largely due to the prevalence of Fantasy Football, fans obsess about numbers. Thankfully our GM still goes old school and watches tape, where you can discover if a guy is a football player, or not.

[DCofNC]

18 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think some compare him to other speed rushers or “EDGE” guys when that’s not really who he is. He wins with power, technique, hands vs speed off the edge. Similar to Shaq in terms of type of DE but i think epenesa is a better player with a higher ceiling. I think moving him inside next to Oliver on passing downs would be awesome. 

Agreed, he’s more of a bull than a dancing bear, but he’s also very good at getting free.  Somebody like Brady, with quick drops and passes, can completely neutralize his type of game on the edge.  But give that ball an extra pat on a 5 step drop and he can get home, you also won’t run him over like Murphy, etc.   I do think he could raise absolute hell from the 3 tech spot, which could be interesting on passing downs, line him and Oliver up in a speed rush package, flank the center and make them figure out who to deal with. 
 

He is not a super twitchy athlete, but if you watch him play, he manages to get home in a hurry, it’s deceptive.  I think part of it is his size, and he’s not super sudden, but somehow he ends up past his guy and crushing people without a lot of flash.  I think he will have a solid career, I would expect a consistent 6-8 sacks a year and the occasional 10+ year when he gets lined up against guys that can’t handle his power and he gets a couple in one game.  He was a dominant player in college, he won’t, or I doubt, he will be quite as dominant in the pros, but I think he can be a long term starter for you and you won’t be upset to have him there.  
 

I liken his production to Shaq, but I don’t expect to see him showing up out of shape and not giving effort the way Shaq did for 3 years.  I see more of a  Shaq in a contract year type of player here.