thebandit27 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 21 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: So, you hope they’ve done a deep dive on his football character. Without elite (or even average) explosion, he’ll have to win on attitude and effort. Some of the anonymous scouting reviews are less than stellar, such as this one from The Athletic: ”“I just don’t know how much fire there is internally in him to achieve,” a third scout said. “It’s not like he’s a bad kid, by any stretch. I just don’t see that J.J. Watt-type desire and motivation to be great.” https://theathletic.com/1758253/2020/04/20/mcginns-nfl-draft-series-scouts-on-top-edge-rushers/?source=user_shared_article I worry about the bust factor with this guy. Personally I would’ve taken a chance on Uche as a high-upside explosive pass rusher. Not that I don’t like Epanesa, I am good with their ability to scout defense and I’ll assume they spoke to his coaches and feel confident he has enough compete. It just feels a bit like a “straight down the fairway” type pick. That said I’m sure they didn’t expect him to last to 54 and the value is undeniable. Not sure if I should be happy or frightened by the fact that we’re in total lockstep on both of these picks. Good players that belong in the NFL, but generally “safe” picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Have him play around 260 to 265. His forty is the only blemish. He was extremly productive. He abused multiple OTs that were drafted. This pick is a home run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 11 hours ago, bobs0108 said: He was the best at what was left and a need so I think this is a great pick. I wouldn’t call it great bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Can’t wait to see how he translates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Not sure if I should be happy or frightened by the fact that we’re in total lockstep on both of these picks. Good players that belong in the NFL, but generally “safe” picks. yea mentioned it in another thread but I wonder if they weighted these guys higher due to things like their football family and relatively high floors. You hand epenesa a playbook and workout plan and I’m guessing it’s a safe bet his dad whips him into shape even if you can’t get hands on him til August potentially. more likely to contribute this year but maybe not be the pro bowler in 3 years 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamkrgr Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 (edited) Some of the comparisons people throwing out are 10 year players(schobel, Hanson, Carlos Dunlap nfl.com. We all want the next superstar but a 10 year starter with a couple pro bowls sprinkled in is nothing to spit at. i really like this pick. Ed Oliver and Aj Epenesa should be a really solid pass rushing duo for a long time. Edited April 25, 2020 by Iamkrgr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, NoSaint said: yea mentioned it in another thread but I wonder if they weighted these guys higher due to things like their football family and relatively high floors. You hand epenesa a playbook and workout plan and I’m guessing it’s a safe bet his dad whips him into shape even if you can’t get hands on him til August potentially. more likely to contribute this year but maybe not be the pro bowler in 3 years Good point. To me IF he turns out to have the same type career Schobel had we will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Just now, atlbillsfan1975 said: Good point. To me IF he turns out to have the same type career Schobel had we will be ok. Completely different type of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Just now, Coach Tuesday said: Completely different type of player. I was speaking to production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 11 hours ago, HerdMentality said: A grade from CBSsports. Fake news ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 I hate the 40, but love the film. Also, his draft call — he sounded like he just won a tshirt.....he was very uninspired about the whole thing. But whatever, show up and play and we’ll love you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hit Man #47 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Brandon Beane should take the Iggles GM out for a Steak Dinner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poblano Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 For two months I've compared him to Justin Smith, former Missouri, Cincinnati and SF player. (4th. - 5th. overall for Bengals) Solid, unspectacular (for casual fans) player, but with all you need to a long, productive carrer in NFL. High motor, great teammate (some level of leadership), versatility along the line, simply is the player who makes the job for others to shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 1 hour ago, GaryPinC said: Really wanted Dobbins at this pick but Epenesa is a great pick also. He was a standout on that Iowa defense. Deceptively quick, violent with a true nose for the football run or pass. Relentless. He just doesn't have that elite speed. He's definitely NOT Kelsay or Hansen 2.0. He's much more driven, uses his length and has far more range. I'd say 65% Schoebel, 35% Bruce Smith He's got some moves. 65% + 35% = 100% Phil Hansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 All he has ever done from high school to college is a produce at a high level against major competition. Couple that with his size, length and technique, odds are that he will be a solid to good NFL player for years to come. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hit Man #47 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Brandon Beane should take the Iggles GM out for a Steak Dinner So happy to say goodbye to the days of overdrafting... overpaying...only to lose our draft picks to other teams...because we overspent...incredible value at 54...he will be coached well...looking forward to watching him develop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aireskoi Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001111326/article/2020-nfl-draft-dandre-swift-among-day-2s-top-value-picks 2) A.J. Epenesa, Edge, Buffalo Bills Drafted No. 54 overall (Round 2). Epenesa was the 20th overall player on my neutral-fit model, which ranks players independent of landing spot. But put him on the Bills roster ... and yikes for AFC East QBs. Buffalo's defense ranked in the top 10 in all the predictive metrics that I track last year without Epenesa, so the rich get richer. The Iowa edge rusher's 58 QB pressures led the Big Ten last season, per PFF. He could have easily gone in the first round, so to fall to Pick No. 54 and to this team, offers significant value. The Bills' stacked defense should enhance his positives and help mask his still-developing traits. As of right now -- at the end of Day 2 (and admittedly way too early) -- the Bills are my model's AFC East favorite with Epenesa helping to increase that margin of victory. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reks Ryan Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 11 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: DE was our #1 need by far after acquiring Diggs, so we all gotta be good with this. Kyle Dugger was the guy I thought we'd take if he was on the board as that hybrid S/OLB McDermott likes to use in his D. Then the Patriots took him. DE was a huge need. Looks like a physical freak. Sounds like he's fairly raw and didn't play a lot in college. That'll serve the Bills D really well in our rotation system. He was a 3 year starter at Iowa. He was consistent. 2018 Sophomore year stats were comparable to his 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthebuff Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 I really like this pick. Again, not that my opinion matters. What really matters is what he will do on the field. It seems to me that he's already an accomplished player in the Big 10 against some of the more accomplished tackles of that particular league, including his own teammate. Those guys rated him as the toughest guy they'd ever faced. Looking at his past college performances, where he was drafted and where he was projected to be drafted, I'm even happier with this pick. I just read an article where SI had placed the over under on where they (and Vegas) felt at 29.5. The Bills got him at 54. 1st round value at 2nd round price. I think Beane and McDermott hit the nail on the head when they told him to use this as a chip on his shoulder. If anyone criticizes the lack of elation at being drafted by the Bills at #54, then they do not understand the competitive nature of most of these players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 1 hour ago, GaryPinC said: Really wanted Dobbins at this pick but Epenesa is a great pick also. He was a standout on that Iowa defense. Deceptively quick, violent with a true nose for the football run or pass. Relentless. He just doesn't have that elite speed. He's definitely NOT Kelsay or Hansen 2.0. He's much more driven, uses his length and has far more range. I'd say 65% Schoebel, 35% Bruce Smith He's got some moves. I’m not sure who this disrespects more, Phil Hansen or Aaron Schobel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, vincec said: I’m not sure who this disrespects more, Phil Hansen or Aaron Schobel. neither. It is just a fan's opinion. who cares! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyd415 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Victory Formation said: Nahhhhhh. You take Epenesa there. Epenesa should have gone in the 18-22 range. He has Pro Bowl talent at DE. The fact that he was available at 54 is unreal. Had any of us fans mocked Epenesa to us at 54 we would have been laughed at, mocked and ridiculed and maybe even accused of having a bit too much to drink. Epenesa at 54 is a highway robbery in every sense of the word. There is no other option at 54. Epenesa is 10000000000000.0000000% the right pick there. 31 other Franchises didn’t think he was any better than late second round....most passed on him twice. I hope he’s a very productive starter for many years for us, I’m just not quite as impressed with his film/body of work as most seem to be. He was projected to be a top 10 pick before the 2019 NCAA season...after showing basically no growth/improvement on the field he had an overall letdown of a season and here we are with him sitting in the mid 50s. Quality role player? I think so...dominant game changer? Doubt it but I’d love to be wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: ”“I just don’t know how much fire there is internally in him to achieve,” a third scout said. “It’s not like he’s a bad kid, by any stretch. I just don’t see that J.J. Watt-type desire and motivation to be great.” The quotes McGinn gets from scouts are intereresing but full of "smoke" in many cases, IMO ("He's a guard!"). I've read his scout "feedback" year after year when he worked in Milwaukee and you have to parse what's genuine from what's FUD being planted to camoflage players. Here's what scouts "told" him about Christian McCaffrey in 2017: “Everyone’s anointing him as the next great white (hope),” said a third scout. “I’m a little skeptical. He didn’t dominate as much as he did sophomore year. Why is that? What’s the value of a third-down back and return specialist?” Or Zay Jones: “Top three ball skills in this draft,” said one scout. “He’s physical. He is a good route runner. Great kid." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrochester55 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Green Lightning said: Sorry, I just feel like we drafted Chris Kelsay. Its possible, but I am seeing more of an Aaron Schobel or Phil Hansen where they are good but not elite. I always felt bad for Kelsay. He took a lot of heat that should have been reserved for the ownership at the time. Kelsay would have been a perfectly acceptable rotational defensive lineman that was used in run stopping situations. Unfortunately the lack of appeal to free agents at the time and the penny pinching of Ralph Wilson resulted in a lack of talent and as a result the franchise paying and marketing Kelsay as if he was the face of the defense and a top tier defensive end. Of course, the fans didn't buy it and when the defense would get gashed for 30 or 40 points, Kelsay was an easy target and scapegoat. Kelsay would have looked better if he was the third or fourth best defensive end on a team instead of the best or second best one. Nice guy and good team player, just put in a bad position. Edited April 25, 2020 by dgrochester55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Lurker said: The quotes McGinn gets from scouts are intereresing but full of "smoke" in many cases, IMO ("He's a guard!"). I've read his scout "feedback" year after year when he worked in Milwaukee and you have to parse what's genuine from what's FUD being planted to camoflage players. Here's what scouts "told" him about Christian McCaffrey in 2017: “Everyone’s anointing him as the next great white (hope),” said a third scout. “I’m a little skeptical. He didn’t dominate as much as he did sophomore year. Why is that? What’s the value of a third-down back and return specialist?” Or Zay Jones: “Top three ball skills in this draft,” said one scout. “He’s physical. He is a good route runner. Great kid." Don’t think it’s smoke as much as some guys just being wrong. I highly doubt some sly scout was purposely pumping out disinformation hype about Zay Jones so he’d be overdrafted... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 10 hours ago, BillsVet said: I was being sarcastic. The HC believes his defense can beat great offenses. He’s 3-17 career against playoff teams. More defense leading to wins is a fallacy. I don’t think McDermott believes that at all. I think he wants a dynamic, passing offense a la Andy Reid. He’s just not Andy Reid so he’s not sure how to accomplish that. They’re working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. K Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 I think I found the play the helped make this pick for Beane. 7:00 minute mark AJ Epenesa Film (Made by a Panthers fan of course) Good play recognition and pursuit. Really the only burst I've seen him have on film. I would imagine he gets more sacks than the artist known as Aaron Maybin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dirtyd415 said: 31 other Franchises didn’t think he was any better than late second round....most passed on him twice. I hope he’s a very productive starter for many years for us, I’m just not quite as impressed with his film/body of work as most seem to be. He was projected to be a top 10 pick before the 2019 NCAA season...after showing basically no growth/improvement on the field he had an overall letdown of a season and here we are with him sitting in the mid 50s. Quality role player? I think so...dominant game changer? Doubt it but I’d love to be wrong! Even if he just becomes a quality rotational DE, that is still a great pickup in the long term - excellent strategy. Look at how much good DEs cost, they are in the 8-10 million range. How long do you think it will take before he is better than Murphy. End of this year I would say. Helps for succession planning for the moving out of Hughes and Addison. Great intermediate to long term team planning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Don’t think it’s smoke as much as some guys just being wrong. I highly doubt some sly scout was purposely pumping out disinformation hype about Zay Jones so he’d be overdrafted... If that's the case, there's as much "wrong" as right with many of the scouts he talks to. I can't believe those scouts would continue to be employed year after year if they were consistently wrong about guys. I know the draft is a crap shoot, but for every positive evaluation McGinn gets, he seems to find negative quotes to balance it out--leading to a muddled picture (which is what I think a lot of scouts like to do when planting opinions in the press for everyone to read)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 28 minutes ago, Mr. K said: I think I found the play the helped make this pick for Beane. 7:00 minute mark AJ Epenesa Film (Made by a Panthers fan of course) Good play recognition and pursuit. Really the only burst I've seen him have on film. I would imagine he gets more sacks than the artist known as Aaron Maybin. That was a good film review and the absolute best way to look at a prospect--full game tape rather than highlight cut ups. The one thing to keep in mind--the 2019 games reviewed here were early in the season--when Epenesa, in his own words, was struggling to learn how to handle all the double teaming he was getting. He was much better later in the season. The one thing that was worrisome to me was his ball recognition, where I disagree with you a bit. There were a bunch of times where he seemed to lose sight of the play and it went right past him, or he could have made a better break on the runner. He'll have to clean that up, as well as learn some more pass rush moves beyond just the bull rush... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 52 minutes ago, Dirtyd415 said: 31 other Franchises didn’t think he was any better than late second round....most passed on him twice. I hope he’s a very productive starter for many years for us, I’m just not quite as impressed with his film/body of work as most seem to be. He was projected to be a top 10 pick before the 2019 NCAA season...after showing basically no growth/improvement on the field he had an overall letdown of a season and here we are with him sitting in the mid 50s. Quality role player? I think so...dominant game changer? Doubt it but I’d love to be wrong! A 2nd round grade is a 2nd round grade. I’d say players taken between RDS1-3 should be starting caliber and if you’re a good GM you can find starters/role players in the 4th. As far as having a let down season is concerned he still logged 11.5 sacks. Epenesa has the talent to be a 10 or 12 sack per year kind of guy. He has a great bull rush and I value that higher than speed and finesse moves. Epenesa should have been taken in the 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 I’m beginning to wonder if the plan isn’t to play Addison in the LorAx role with AJE and Jefferson playing in Shaq’s spot—Addison would reduce down to 9T in pass rush sets with AJE and Jefferson playing the inside spots. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 45 minutes ago, Aireskoi said: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001111326/article/2020-nfl-draft-dandre-swift-among-day-2s-top-value-picks 2) A.J. Epenesa, Edge, Buffalo Bills Drafted No. 54 overall (Round 2). Epenesa was the 20th overall player on my neutral-fit model, which ranks players independent of landing spot. But put him on the Bills roster ... and yikes for AFC East QBs. Buffalo's defense ranked in the top 10 in all the predictive metrics that I track last year without Epenesa, so the rich get richer. The Iowa edge rusher's 58 QB pressures led the Big Ten last season, per PFF. He could have easily gone in the first round, so to fall to Pick No. 54 and to this team, offers significant value. The Bills' stacked defense should enhance his positives and help mask his still-developing traits. As of right now -- at the end of Day 2 (and admittedly way too early) -- the Bills are my model's AFC East favorite with Epenesa helping to increase that margin of victory. The idea that this guys ceiling is a 6-8 sack guy is silly. There is no indication or anything that suggests that this will be the case. The fact that he has always gotten sacks throughout his career, that he was one of the leaders in college at winning his one on one battles and that he led a major conference in the Big Ten with 58 pressures show that this guy gets after it. He’s going to be a great fit for this team and will be the eventual starter within a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I’m beginning to wonder if the plan isn’t to play Addison in the LorAx role with AJE and Jefferson playing in Shaq’s spot—Addison would reduce down to 9T in pass rush sets with AJE and Jefferson playing the inside spots. Interesting thought Bandit and probably right. That’s one way to preserve Addison too. He really tailed off last year so maybe that keeps him fresher? In general, the pick was a solid B IMO. I thought some of the guys that were going to go later were going to be better pass rushers. I still believe that. I think that Epenesa has a high floor though. He will help the team as soon as this year. The same with Moss. With the Bills window seemingly open I like getting guys that you know will contribute early. With that being said, I’d take a couple of shots today knowing that there are limited holes and roster spots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: Interesting thought Bandit and probably right. That’s one way to preserve Addison too. He really tailed off last year so maybe that keeps him fresher? In general, the pick was a solid B IMO. I thought some of the guys that were going to go later were going to be better pass rushers. I still believe that. I think that Epenesa has a high floor though. He will help the team as soon as this year. The same with Moss. With the Bills window seemingly open I like getting guys that you know will contribute early. With that being said, I’d take a couple of shots today knowing that there are limited holes and roster spots. Indeed. With Klein and Matakevich in the fold they can limit Addison’s snaps at OLB as well; really keep him for the EDGE rush role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Interesting thought Bandit and probably right. That’s one way to preserve Addison too. He really tailed off last year so maybe that keeps him fresher? In general, the pick was a solid B IMO. I thought some of the guys that were going to go later were going to be better pass rushers. I still believe that. I think that Epenesa has a high floor though. He will help the team as soon as this year. The same with Moss. With the Bills window seemingly open I like getting guys that you know will contribute early. With that being said, I’d take a couple of shots today knowing that there are limited holes and roster spots. Your evaluation is similar to the evaluation that Greg Cosell gave to WGR after the pick. This is a 4 min segment from the WGR John Murphy Show. Cosell pointed out that he felt that in pass rushing situations that Espenesa could also do it from the tackle position. https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/4-24-greg-cosell-on-aj-epenesa Edited April 25, 2020 by JohnC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 The NFL Draft's 10 best edge rushers ranked 2. AJ EPENESA, IOWA . Many view Epenesa as a first-round sleeper in the draft. In two full seasons with the Hawkeyes defensive line rotation, Epenesa put up 30.5 TFLs and 22 sacks. Epenesa was a big recruiting win for the Hawkeyes three seasons ago as the No. 1 defensive end in the country and a 247Sports Composite five-star recruit from Edwardsville (Ill.). https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/NFL-Draft-2020-best-edge-rushers-ranked-Chase-Young-AJ-Epenesa-Yetur-Gross-Matos-145995796/#145995796_2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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