BuffaloBills1998 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) With the draft coming up I wanted to know some of your guys lists on the worst players we ever drafted here. mine starts off with Aaron Maybin, Mike Williams, Willis McGahee, CJ spiller, JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Dante Whitner, Erik Flowers, James Hardy, and John McCargo, EJ Manuel etc Edited April 7, 2020 by BuffaloBills1998 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BfloBillsFan Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Add Zay Jones to that list 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 You pretty much listed all of them since the turn of the century. I'll add Torrell Troup and Cyrus Kouandjio. McGahee and Watkins are in the same boat. They had okay careers (mostly outside of Buffalo) but definitely weren't worth giving up a 1st rounder for. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: You pretty much listed all of them since the turn of the century. I'll add Torrell Troup and Cyrus Kouandjio. McGahee and Watkins are in the same boat. They had okay careers (mostly outside of Buffalo) but definitely weren't worth giving up a 1st rounder for. Yep. Plus this thread pops up every damn year..? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAKCruiser Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Ed Wang 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBills1998 Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: You pretty much listed all of them since the turn of the century. I'll add Torrell Troup and Cyrus Kouandjio. McGahee and Watkins are in the same boat. They had okay careers (mostly outside of Buffalo) but definitely weren't worth giving up a 1st rounder for. Kouandjio lol, forgot all about him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 32 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: With the draft coming up I wanted to know some of your guys lists on the worst players we ever drafted here. mine starts off with Aaron Maybin, Mike Williams, Willis McGahee, CJ spiller, JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Dante Whitner, Erik Flowers, James Hardy, and John McCargo, EJ Manuel etc Where's Sammy? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Is there a point to just creating a list of bad draft choices? Do you have some intention for this thread? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 TJ Graham over Russell Wilson. End thread. The one that really annoyed me was Leodis McKelvin in 2008. Leodis wasn't the worst player in the world and it was before I really watched college football so I can't pretend to have been an expert but I just remember Jason Peters was already starting to play up over a contract and the Langston Walker experiment had been a disaster and I remember it being talked of as a decent tackle draft. I really wanted Branden Albert but there was Ryan Clady, Duane Brown and Chris Williams (who was a bust and did eventually end up here playing 4 games at guard then getting injured) as well. We still had decent corners on the roster I think as well. I don't hate drafting defensive backs early.... I am not @Bill from NYC I liked the Gilmore pick and the White pick and taking Darby early.... but that one McKelvin just never made any sense to me from a roster building perspective. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBills1998 Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said: Is there a point to just creating a list of bad draft choices? Do you have some intention for this thread? No, honestly I’m just working graveyard tonight and I’m trying to entertain myself lol. Minus that everyone has a different opinion and list and I’m curious 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: TJ Graham over Russell Wilson. End thread. The one that really annoyed me was Leodis McKelvin in 2008. Leodis wasn't the worst player in the world and it was before I really watched college football so I can't pretend to have been an expert but I just remember Jason Peters was already starting to play up over a contract and the Langston Walker experiment had been a disaster and I remember it being talked of as a decent tackle draft. I really wanted Branden Albert but there was Ryan Clady, Duane Brown and Chris Williams (who was a bust and did eventually end up here playing 4 games at guard then getting injured) as well. We still had decent corners on the roster I think as well. I don't hate drafting defensive backs early.... I am not @Bill from NYC I liked the Gilmore pick and the White pick and taking Darby early.... but that one McKelvin just never made any sense to me from a roster building perspective. I didn’t like McKelvin much either but I never viewed him as being one of the worst though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said: Is there a point to just creating a list of bad draft choices? Do you have some intention for this thread? Did you have a better idea? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBills1998 Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 25 minutes ago, BfloBillsFan said: Add Zay Jones to that list Forgot about him. Wasn’t he one of Whaley’s last picks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 minute ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: I didn’t like McKelvin much either but I never viewed him as being one of the worst though. Not as a player himself, no. But to me that was a decision that never made sense. Like Losman or even Maybin.... bad players but we took a shot on a Quarterback and we did need an edge rusher now they were poor talent evaluations but at least they had identified the right problems with the roster. The thing about the McKelvin pick was not just that they overdrafted McKelvin.... it was that the thought process was flawed from the get go from a roster building perspective. 1 minute ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: Forgot about him. Wasn’t he one of Whaley’s last picks? We do this a lot but Whaley was not running that draft. McDermott was. McDermott gets the credit for Tre White, Dion Dawkins and Matt Milano. But he also gets the blame for Zay Jones. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBills1998 Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Not as a player himself, no. But to me that was a decision that never made sense. Like Losman or even Maybin.... bad players but we took a shot on a Quarterback and we did need an edge rusher now they were poor talent evaluations but at least they had identified the right problems with the roster. The thing about the McKelvin pick was not just that they overdrafted McKelvin.... it was that the thought process was flawed from the get go from a roster building perspective. We do this a lot but Whaley was not running that draft. McDermott was. McDermott gets the credit for Tre White, Dion Dawkins and Matt Milano. But he also gets the blame for Zay Jones. Funny enough i had never even heard of JP Losman until he got drafted, was completely clueless as I didn’t know his college background or anything. My first reaction was Who the ***** is this guy? Edited April 7, 2020 by BuffaloBills1998 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GymShorts84 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Torrell Troup one pick ahead of Gronk and Watkins over Khalil Mack hit the hardest. Mack might bother me more because how did the organization scouts not have a front row seat for two years? I know Troup battled injury too, but these two guys would have been hometown heroes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: No, honestly I’m just working graveyard tonight and I’m trying to entertain myself lol. Minus that everyone has a different opinion and list and I’m curious I didn’t like McKelvin much either but I never viewed him as being one of the worst though. The PICK was up there with the worst when you consider who they passed on. McKelvin was a fairly good player after 3 or 4 years. I have said over and over, a player can be "good" and still be a horrible draft selection. When your OL sucks and you pass on Branden Albert to take a so-so corner, or even one who is "good," you are hurting your football team. A strong case could be made that Donte Whitner was "good." Now, let's count the games that he won for us. 41 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Where's Sammy? Another great example of good player/bad pick. Whaley gave away the store for Sammy, who was "good." A case could be made for VERY good (I btw am in that camp). The thing is, we had huge QB issues, and there was at least one other top receiver we could have stayed put and drafted, along with a boat load of other tremendous players. This is what makes him a bad pick imo. Edited April 7, 2020 by Bill from NYC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhg Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Erik Flowers - John Butler's parting gift to the organization. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Round Bust Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) warning this may induce vomiting: Walt Patulski - first pick of entire draft - at least he got traded for a #2 which turned out to be Joe Delvin who played well for us for years more 70s misses Phil Dokes - the Nebraska twins (LBs Rudd and Nelson) Tom Cousineau - never signed - went to CFL and Browns after crapping big-time on Buffalo Rueben Gant - as in can't - TE 80s whiffs Booker Moore - Guillen barre disease Tony Hunter - TE from ND taken before Jim Kelly Perry Tuttle - beware WRs from Clemson 90s super bowl misfit Darryl Williams (and his flame ######ant jersey) 20th century busts Erik Flowers - John Butler reach Aaron Maybin JP Losman - not just a number 1 but we traded more pick Leo McKelvin (first cb taken in the entire draft) Torrell Troupe (2nd rounder taken right before Gronk) Edited April 7, 2020 by First Round Bust 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 The best training camp QB ever. Nate "the great" Peterman. I know he was only a 5th round pick, but I just couldn't help myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 31 minutes ago, GymShorts84 said: Torrell Troup one pick ahead of Gronk and Watkins over Khalil Mack hit the hardest. Mack might bother me more because how did the organization scouts not have a front row seat for two years? I know Troup battled injury too, but these two guys would have been hometown heroes. Troup is the definition of the why we were never good then- he was a low cieling guy who got a very defined role and then failed at it. Picking guys early with very defined roles is dumb, pick players who can do it all and try to coach up specific abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 I think it's important to distinguish between a 'bad pick' and a 'bust'. A bad pick is when the FO executes a dumb strategy or reaches for a player when there are glaringly awesome players on the board. For example, I wouldn't call Mike Williams a bad pick - it seemed like a sure thing on draft day, and then he became a bust. Now Aaron Maybin, that was a BAD pick! 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 I would have to go with McCargo as the absolute worst 1st rounder but they struck gold in the 5th with Meatball I told my GF during training camp that if they cut Kyle I would burn my season tickets(we actually got ticket sheets then) He was out playing McCargo during training camp and should have been starting from day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve O Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 25 minutes ago, First Round Bust said: warning this may induce vomiting: 90s super bowl misfit Darryl Williams (and his flame ######ant jersey) Focusing strictly on the 90's, from 92-96 the Bills had 7 second round picks (3 in 94 because of compensatory picks.) Every one was a bust, Friggin' Lonnie was the best of the bunch. Parella did have a decent career for the San Diego but was a bust for the Bills. Bucky Brooks has had a decent career as an NFL analyst. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Trent Edwards was a third-round pick. You can't really put him on this list. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 27 minutes ago, First Round Bust said: warning this may induce vomiting: Walt Patulski - first pick of entire draft - at least he got traded for a #2 which turned out to be Joe Delvin who played well for us for years more 70s misses Phil Dokes - the Nebraska twins (LBs Rudd and Nelson) Tom Cousineau - never signed - went to CFL and Browns after crapping big-time on Buffalo Rueben Gant - as in can't - TE 80s whiffs Booker Moore - Guillen barre disease Tony Hunter - TE from ND taken before Jim Kelly Perry Tuttle - beware WRs from Clemson 90s super bowl misfit Darryl Williams (and his flame ######ant jersey) 20th century busts Erik Flowers - John Butler reach Aaron Maybin JP Losman - not just a number 1 but we traded more pick Leo McKelvin (first cb taken in the entire draft) Torrell Troupe (2nd rounder taken right before Gronk) Tom Cousineau was indeed the first overall pick in 1979 - and he never played for us - chose to play in Canada instead. While this was an incredibly bad pick in the short term (wasting the 1st overall pick - how is that even possible!). In the longer term - we maintained his NFL rights and when he wanted to leave Canada & finally play in the NFL - we then traded him to the Cleveland Browns for what was the 14th overall pick in the 1st round. That pick turned out to be Jim Kelly - so I guess in the big picture the pick was actually a good one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: Funny enough i had never even heard of JP Losman until he got drafted, was completely clueless as I didn’t know his college background or anything. My first reaction was Who the ***** is this guy? I had the exact same reaction to that pick. I still have no idea what the heck they were thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Choosing the wrong Josh. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, 1ManRaid said: Is there a point to just creating a list of bad draft choices? Do you have some intention for this thread? He beat Phil the Thrill to it, therefore, no tortured Journalism Blogger / Radio Talk Show / Cub Reporter development. * And as for the subject matter, Earthquake Enyart. Edited April 7, 2020 by Ridgewaycynic2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: With the draft coming up I wanted to know some of your guys lists on the worst players we ever drafted here. mine starts off with Aaron Maybin, Mike Williams, Willis McGahee, CJ spiller, JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Dante Whitner, Erik Flowers, James Hardy, and John McCargo, EJ Manuel etc Both Willis McGahee and Donte Whitner were both good players, both for the Bills and for other teams during their NFL careers, including Pro Bowl selections, so they hardly qualify for a list of "the worst players we ever drafted". CJ Spiller also had a decent NFL career, so he doesn't belong on your list, either. Moreover, Trent Edwards was a third round pick who wasn't even the worst third round QB the Bills ever drafted -- see Gary Marangi (1974) -- and even among the third rounders drafted since 1999/2000, there were some outright busts who never even saw the field. You need to have some valid criteria beside your personal dislike of a particular player. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 I think for the worst draft choices you can't just go by if they worked out or not and consider the information at the time of the choice. For that reason Maybin jumps out to me, he was known to have a small body and a poor choice when the Bills selected him. The Bills were fooled by some where he weighed 20 pounds more than he ever did before or since. People called it out right away as a poor choice mainly due to his size and all that became true. JP Losman was not a bad choice when the Bills selected him. Trent Edwards in the 3rd round, not a bad choice, he had a lengthy NFL career. Those guys did not become "franchise QB's" but at the time they were selected they were not bad choices. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, skibum said: I think it's important to distinguish between a 'bad pick' and a 'bust'. A bad pick is when the FO executes a dumb strategy or reaches for a player when there are glaringly awesome players on the board. For example, I wouldn't call Mike Williams a bad pick - it seemed like a sure thing on draft day, and then he became a bust. Now Aaron Maybin, that was a BAD pick! Right. 20/20 At the time the Bills would have been ridiculed for not picking Williams....by fans and media alike. But he was a huge bust. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: You pretty much listed all of them since the turn of the century. I'll add Torrell Troup and Cyrus Kouandjio. McGahee and Watkins are in the same boat. They had okay careers (mostly outside of Buffalo) but definitely weren't worth giving up a 1st rounder for. Two first round picks for Samantha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaru523 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) For me its McCargo and Maybin that mostly stick out as moves that were major facepalm moments when they happened. When they traded back into the first round in 06 I got really excited, but when they announced McCargo as the pick I started looking around for Ashton Kutcher. The Maybin pick infuriated me because I was really hoping for Brian Orakpo and I didn't stop shaking my head on that one for a very long time because I just couldn't understand how they could pass on Orakpo for Maybin, a guy that I knew little about except that he was generally slated for the late 1st early 2nd while Orakpo was a definite early 1st. Edited April 7, 2020 by Amaru523 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, SoTier said: Both Willis McGahee and Donte Whitner were both good players, both for the Bills and for other teams during their NFL careers, including Pro Bowl selections, so they hardly qualify for a list of "the worst players we ever drafted". CJ Spiller also had a decent NFL career, so he doesn't belong on your list, either. Moreover, Trent Edwards was a third round pick who wasn't even the worst third round QB the Bills ever drafted -- see Gary Marangi (1974) -- and even among the third rounders drafted since 1999/2000, there were some outright busts who never even saw the field. You need to have some valid criteria beside your personal dislike of a particular player. I’ve been a lifelong Buckeye fan, but in 2006 I was not yet a Bills fan. I had watched a lot of Whitner, every game. Good player, but I still remember my reaction when the Bills took him. I literally snapped my head toward the TV and said basically this “Whitner, EIGHTH?!?! I have no idea what the Bills are thinking. None. Good player, but not at eight. They way over drafted him and left a lot of talent on the table. Wow, I can’t believe they just did that.” That was also the draft where the Browns handed Haloti Ngata to the Ravens. I was at a draft day party in Cleveland and the whole place was celebrating Ngata still being there for the taking then went dead silent when the trade was announced. For a sixth round pick. It still angers me. Everyone at that draft day party would’ve drafted better than Savage that day. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Amaru523 said: For me its McCargo and Maybin that mostly stick out as moves that were major facepalm moments when they happened. When they traded back into the first round in 06 I got really excited, but when they announced McCargo as the pick I started looking around for Ashton Kutcher. The Maybin pick infuriated me because I was really hoping for Brian Orakpo and I didn't stop shaking my head on that one for a very long time because I just couldn't understand how they could pass on Orakpo for Maybin, a guy that I knew little about except that he was generally slated for the late 1st early 2nd while Orakpo was a definite early 1st. The McCargo pick wasn't like a luxury. It was straight up dumb - we took whitner over ngata - then moved up for this guy. That we somehow stumbled into Kyle Williams in the 5th is stunning. I also remember that year thinking - i'd be fine with cutler. JP doesn't have "it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 22 minutes ago, skibum said: I think it's important to distinguish between a 'bad pick' and a 'bust'. A bad pick is when the FO executes a dumb strategy or reaches for a player when there are glaringly awesome players on the board. For example, I wouldn't call Mike Williams a bad pick - it seemed like a sure thing on draft day, and then he became a bust. Now Aaron Maybin, that was a BAD pick! Exactly right. McGahee, Whitner, and Spiller weren't busts. They got bad raps among Buffalo fans because the Bills drafted them instead of other players still on the board who had better careers. Watkins wouldn't have been a bad pick if the Bills hadn't given up so much to get him. In the case of Maybin, though, he was both a bad pick and a bust. His physical shortcomings to be a modern NFL edge rusher were apparent well before the draft -- he was a "one trick pony" who depended on a clear line to the QB and speed for sacks -- which Dick Jauron and Russ Brandon ignored because they saw him bulked up at the Combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: I’ve been a lifelong Buckeye fan, but in 2006 I was not yet a Bills fan. I had watched a lot of Whitner, every game. Good player, but I still remember my reaction when the Bills took him. I literally snapped my head toward the TV and said basically this “Whitner, EIGHTH?!?! I have no idea what the Bills are thinking. None. Good player, but not at eight. They way over drafted him and left a lot of talent on the table. Wow, I can’t believe they just did that.” That was also the draft where the Browns handed Haloti Ngata to the Ravens. I was at a draft day party in Cleveland and the whole place was celebrating Ngata still being there for the taking then went dead silent when the trade was announced. For a sixth round pick. It still angers me. Everyone at that draft day party would’ve drafted better than Savage that day. Whitner was hated by many Bills fans simply because of where he was drafted. That's on FO stupidity not on the player. He doesn't have any choice of which team drafts him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 minute ago, SoTier said: Exactly right. McGahee, Whitner, and Spiller weren't busts. They got bad raps among Buffalo fans because the Bills drafted them instead of other players still on the board who had better careers. Watkins wouldn't have been a bad pick if the Bills hadn't given up so much to get him. In the case of Maybin, though, he was both a bad pick and a bust. His physical shortcomings to be a modern NFL edge rusher were apparent well before the draft -- he was a "one trick pony" who depended on a clear line to the QB and speed for sacks -- which Dick Jauron and Russ Brandon ignored because they saw him bulked up at the Combine. Ehhh i think Spiller is a bust. Injury prone, had 1 good season, and washed out quickly. Ryan Mathews got the injury-prone tag, was drafted after, and had a much more productive career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, dneveu said: The McCargo pick wasn't like a luxury. It was straight up dumb - we took whitner over ngata - then moved up for this guy. That we somehow stumbled into Kyle Williams in the 5th is stunning. I also remember that year thinking - i'd be fine with cutler. JP doesn't have "it". McCargo had an injury (knee?) that he never recovered from. Why in the world would any team trade up to take a player coming off a serious injury? However, taking players with injury histories seems to have been a common thread during the years when Russ Brandon ran the show: Troupe and Koujandijo also had injury histories which likely compromised their NFL careers even before they were drafted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 It's interesting to see the responses, and what qualifies in people's minds as a "bad" selection. There are several players I've seen mentioned who were actually very productive NFL players. CJ Spiller, Donte Whitner, Willis McGahee, Sammy Watkins, etc. But Bills fans still consider them terrible picks because they were selected too early OR because we passed on someone really good to take them. Personally, I would go with player(s) who were ALL of the above.... drafted way too early, with much better players sitting on the board, and who ended up having terrible NFL careers. With all of that in consideration, it's really hard not to go with someone like Aaron Maybin, Erik Flowers or Torrell Troup. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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