I don’t get the hate that Josh Allen gets around here.

[longtimebillsfan]

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 4:02 AM, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I get it he’s not perfect, but neither was Kemp, or Ferguson or even Kelly for that matter. First it’s finally we have a franchise QB now all of a sudden it’s let’s go get Watson and let Allen go so we don’t have to pay him 30 million. Like some of you guys need to make up your minds. Either your with Allen or your not. Again while Bills mafia is the best fan base in the NFL, we are also the most spoiled. Appreciate what we have and root for the guy to succeed. Things could be worse, we could still have Tyrod( I can’t throw the football) Taylor or Nathan( I cant stop throwing to the other team) Peterman. Or how about EJ Manuel or Kyle Orton or even better Jeff Tuel or Thad Lewis. I can’t imagine if Kelly’s first year in Buffalo happened in today’s game, there would probably be a million threads about running him out of town and demanding that we draft someone else. I understand being critical and even being concerned, but some of you guys need to stop being negative and back off a bit and watch and see how it all unfolds. Be patient as the kids still young and is only going into his third year in the NFL. I don’t see Cleveland or New Jersey fans coming down on their QBS as much as I see here. And in my opinion Allen is way better than Darnold and Mayfield. 

I think the haters are in the minority.  We have a few "internet Rambos" that like to positon themselves as NFL experts that know more than anyone else.

 

Most of us realize that Josh was a developmental pick and it is enjoyable to see him show progress each year.  Only time will tell, but he has brought an excitement and energy to the team we have not seen in a long time.

 

There will always be hand wringers and naysayers.  We can't let them spoil our fun.

 

Go Josh!  Go Bills!!

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

There are few things I hate to see more than this.  The garbage argument that the people who question Allen are doing so because they’re bad people.  That they’d rather be able to say “I told you so” rather than see their team win and that there couldn’t possibly be any rational reason why they’d question him.  That’s just lazy and juvenile - and it says a lot about the people who make that argument. 

 

I absolutely didn’t want Allen in the draft and he still shows the traits of why that was.  I can appreciate that he’s the Bills QB and I’d love to be wrong about him.  He’s already hit the top end of the kind of QB that I thought he would be, but I can still (happily) acknowledge that he can still improve (and I hope he does).

 

But is there anyone that thinks that Allen has consistently played as well as we need the starting Bills QB to play?   I sure hope not.  While there is certainly a wide range of opinions about his odds of becoming that level of player, who here is openly rooting for him to fail?  Trolls aside, I think that we’re at about 0% on that one.

Well, I also wanted Rosen and an now happy we have Allen.  And if you care to read any of my previous posts about Allen I have said repeatedly he improved last year but still has a ways to go.  Like most young QBs.  This coming year if we have it should tell a lot.

 

And none of that means a hill of beans to the topic from the OP.  It has nothing to do with questioning Allen; I do above as do you.  But there are a few people here who want Allen to fail.  We all know that, we all can pick them out.  Are they trolls?  Maybe.  Do they exist?  Certainly.  There is nothing lazy not nor juvenile about acknowledging reality.

Edited April 6, 2020 by oldmanfan

[Mango]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I get it’s a lot of money.  But what are the chances you get someone who passes for 5,000 yards and 30 tds?  
 

it’s weird.  Because I bet if we put a poll up, the majority of fans would pay Allen big money right now.  Yet, people are hesitate to pay Dak.  

 

Quote

Good post and I agree with a lot of it.  But I watch other teams.  Bills fans have such a terrible concept of good qb play, with good reason.  200 yards passing is like a miracle for us.  If your nfl qb is averaging less than 200 yards passing and completing under 60% of his passes, it’s below average qb play.  Plain and simple.

 

i definitely see why people can get excited.  He has a great attitude, physical skills, and wants to be great.  My problem is his track record hasn’t really shown a lot of consistent greatness.  There are flashes and quarters/ halves.  But it’s never a whole game (except Miami, his numbers are built on Dolphin Blood).

 

I think this is "the hate" that people refer to. The entire country is debating if Dak is worth the contract and pontificating whether Dallas should move on or if it is fair value. But question whether you think Josh is currently either worth a similar contract or will hit that level of production, and all hell breaks loose. 

 

It is not hating, it is literally the entire point of an internet message board. Question away. 

 

EDIT: Second quote- I totally agree with. I really like Josh Allen. I love him as a person, as an athlete, and as the leader of this team. I dislike Josh Allen the passer. He makes some wildly impressive throws at times. I would rather him be more consistent and efficient than get better at more WOW throws in order for me to be all in on him being the messiah. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Mango
I left stuff out because I am an idiot sandwich.

[BigBillsFan]

How some people perceive any critique on here about Allen:
 

 

How we see ourselves

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by BigBillsFan

[Billl]

18 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

No they don’t, I’m sorry to say but Dak is replaceable. He’s not worth what he wants especially when the offense he’s in is a power run first offense. I’m sorry stats don’t mean jack if your not winning football games which is what happened last year. He put up nice stats but failed to get his team to the playoffs, paying Dak the money he wants could set that franchise back a number of years and while he’s cheap, Jerry Jones knows this and isn’t giving into Dak’s contract demands

Dak has given them 4 years of top 10 QB play while getting paid a mid round draft pick rookie contract.  He has given them EVERY chance to build a great team around him, and they haven’t.  This isn’t a Dak problem.  You put Dak on the Bills tomorrow, and Buffalo is a runaway favorite in the AFCE.

[Nihilarian]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

EDIT: Second quote- I totally agree with. I really like Josh Allen. I love him as a person, as an athlete, and as the leader of this team. I dislike Josh Allen the passer. He makes some wildly impressive throws at times. I would rather him be more consistent and efficient than get better at more WOW throws in order for me to be all in on him being the messiah. 

In my view it's more than "just" the QB. Some players like Dan Marino can go to a team and change their entire offensive philosophy. The Dolphins previous to Marino were a dominate running team and suddenly went to a pure passing team while forgetting what won them super bowls. 

 

Anyway, the point here is that there is more to building a top offense and developing a young QB than throwing him to the wolves, into the fire. Which is what exactly happened to Allen his first season. Bad offensive line, bad coaching, no real QB coach, no veteran QB on the roster for a lot of his rookie season. That coaching staff thought that Nathan Peterman would be the better starter to open the season. Then once the Bills OC saw that their new QB could run like the wind he decided to put in some run plays. Never mind that the reason the QB was running so much and so often was because the O line were mostly turnstiles. 

 

Since the Bills have retained the same OC who thought that Peterman should start that 2018 season. The same guy who has never fielded a passing offense better than 22nd. How can anyone expect that young, inexperienced QB to put up 300 yard passing games? I also think this upcoming year is more of a year to prove it for Daboll more so than Allen as it generally takes four years to develop a QB. (Per the late great Bill Walsh)

 

Want to know how bad of an OC Daboll is?  All they need to do is watch that 2019 Ravens game in which the Bills coaching staff had extra time to prepare for that Baltimore defense which didn't have any dominant pass rushers so they blitzed more than 50% of their defensive plays. The Bills offensive answer for that pass rush was to attempt to throw deep a few times and when the Bills didn't complete any deep passes the Ravens stepped up their blitzing to 65%. Brianiac Daboll went on to have Allen attempt 39 passes in that game vs 22 rushes and this with Singletary averaging 5.2 yards per rush...the Bills had no answer to stop the Ravens blitz when clearly running the ball more would have taken pressure off of Allen and stopped their continuous blitzing. That game could have been won by Buffalo.

 

No excuses for anyone this season as the Bills have a top of the league receiver corps, a better line along with a solid run game. I can see 300 yard passing games in 2020 for Buffalo. Provided they actually have a season. 

[Alphadawg7]

On 4/4/2020 at 5:06 AM, thebandit27 said:

Again I will ask: does anyone see any evidence to support the idea that Allen will continue to improve and elevate his game to the next level?

 

Now, the converse: does anyone see any evidence to support the idea that Allen will NOT continue to improve and elevate his game to the next level?

 

Evidence for improvement is there in tons.  The kid has made large leaps in his abilities in short windows continuously.  There is literally no reason to not believe he will continue to get better at this stage.  

• Stepped off the Wyoming field for the last time.
• Works with Palmer and makes huge strides and wows at the combine.
• Comes into the NFL labeled the least ready to play and raw, yet was the starter by the 2nd half of the first game.  (And both McD and Beane said going into 3rd preseason game, the plan was to start him until our OL nearly got the kid killed).
• Has some big wow moments and also lots of struggles before getting hurt against Houston.
• Comes back week 10 and looks like a completely different QB and ends the season strong.
• Comes into 2nd season and greatly improves in a number of key areas but struggles heavily with the long ball and turnovers.
• After some tough lessons in the first NE game, goes on to be 2nd only to Lamar over rest of seasons in TD scored and nearly eliminates all turnovers.
• Ends the season connecting on a much improved on the long ball than earlier in the season.
• Tied over the last 2 seasons in 4th QTR comebacks despite missing or not finishing 6 games.

This kid has taken large leaps in the offseason, preseason, and in season both years since stepping off the Wyoming field for the last time.  

 

If anyone looks at this kid and says he's peaked or cant get better...well...they probably shouldn't be evaluating players anyway.  Does not "guarantee" improvement, it just means there is a mountain of evidence to suggest he will continue to improve and literally zero evidence to suggest he won't.  Every aspect of his game has improved since entering the NFL and in significant amounts.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[BarleyNY]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Well, I also wanted Rosen and an now happy we have Allen.  And if you care to read any of my previous posts about Allen I have said repeatedly he improved last year but still has a ways to go.  Like most young QBs.  This coming year if we have it should tell a lot.

 

And none of that means a hill of beans to the topic from the OP.  It has nothing to do with questioning Allen; I do above as do you.  But there are a few people here who want Allen to fail.  We all know that, we all can pick them out.  Are they trolls?  Maybe.  Do they exist?  Certainly.  There is nothing lazy not nor juvenile about acknowledging reality.

If there’s someone in this thread (or any other) rooting for Allen to fail, then by all means call them out by name.  Making snarky accusations aimed at no one in particular is always going to come off poorly.  You’re not the only one that has done it, but the same thing seems to get said anytime Allen gets any criticism - and it is rarely (if ever) aimed at anyone specifically.  I’d just like to see the posters making those comments man up and name names rather than go the whiny, passive aggressive route.  I’ll leave it at that.

[Motor26]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

Dak has given them 4 years of top 10 QB play while getting paid a mid round draft pick rookie contract.  He has given them EVERY chance to build a great team around him, and they haven’t.  This isn’t a Dak problem.  You put Dak on the Bills tomorrow, and Buffalo is a runaway favorite in the AFCE.

Bills are already the favorite in the AFCE with Allen at QB. 

[LSHMEAB]

On 4/4/2020 at 5:02 AM, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I get it he’s not perfect, but neither was Kemp, or Ferguson or even Kelly for that matter. First it’s finally we have a franchise QB now all of a sudden it’s let’s go get Watson and let Allen go so we don’t have to pay him 30 million. Like some of you guys need to make up your minds. Either your with Allen or your not.

I've made up my mind; I'm WITH Allen. But he needs to perform like an upper echelon QB to be treated as one. He'll gain respect both locally and nationally if/when he takes another stride as a passer. As far as Josh Allen hate, I see it EVERYWHERE nationally, but almost never among Bills fans.

 

One thing that irks me a bit is when we compare JA to the other members of the 2018 QB class. Being the best of the class will mean nothing if the class ends up being a dud.

 

Josh showed steady improvement from year 1 to year 2. No doubt about it. But he's got to take another big step in 2020 to get the kind of uniform, unconditional praise you're seeking.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Ironic to be talking so much about Cousins and Prescott considering how the Bills beat both their teams, on the road, on a CBS game with Nance and Romo doing the broadcast.  Josh made wow plays and lead them to upset wins.  Prescott and Cousins racked up bigger passing stats but did little to keep their teams in the game.

[Billl]

1 hour ago, Motor26 said:

Bills are already the favorite in the AFCE with Allen at QB. 

I think they will win it, but Vegas has NE as the favorite.

[JetsFan20]

5 hours ago, Billl said:

Dak has given them 4 years of top 10 QB play while getting paid a mid round draft pick rookie contract.  He has given them EVERY chance to build a great team around him, and they haven’t.  This isn’t a Dak problem.  You put Dak on the Bills tomorrow, and Buffalo is a runaway favorite in the AFCE.

Im not sure how much more support Dak could have in Dallas:

 

Hes played with four all pro Olineman (Smith, Frederick, Martin, and Collins)

Wide Receivers (Dez Bryant, Amari Cooper, Terrance Williams, Michael Gallup, Cole Beasley, Randall Cobb)

 

Hall of Fame Tight End (Witten)

 

All Pro HB (Elliott) 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

If there’s someone in this thread (or any other) rooting for Allen to fail, then by all means call them out by name.  Making snarky accusations aimed at no one in particular is always going to come off poorly.  You’re not the only one that has done it, but the same thing seems to get said anytime Allen gets any criticism - and it is rarely (if ever) aimed at anyone specifically.  I’d just like to see the posters making those comments man up and name names rather than go the whiny, passive aggressive route.  I’ll leave it at that.

 

So would I.

[Bangarang]

23 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Well if I’m Dallas I’m gonna do my due diligence to try to trade up in the draft for a QB since they are rumored to anyways. And next year you have an even better QB class in next years draft. I’d say keep Prescott for the year on the tag, see how it plays out if once again he misses the playoffs then you have your answer on whether to pay him 45 mill year or not and if Prescott doesn’t let up and still thinks he’s worth 45 to 50 mill year and if you’re a position to draft high for a quarterback then you go get that quarterback in the draft presumably Lawrence tag Prescott and look for a trade partner for Dak which I’m sure you can find one and let someone else overpay for Dak while you can get your QB of the future in either this years or next years draft. Also you have Winston who also threw for 5,000 yards and could be just as effective in that offense as Dak is
 

This is all so insane. You say dump Dak but suggest replacing him with Winston? Lol okay 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

Im not sure how much more support Dak could have in Dallas:

 

Hes played with four all pro Olineman (Smith, Frederick, Martin, and Collins)

Wide Receivers (Dez Bryant, Amari Cooper, Terrance Williams, Michael Gallup, Cole Beasley, Randall Cobb)

 

Hall of Fame Tight End (Witten)

 

All Pro HB (Elliott) 

 

 

I don't think the receivers were as great in reality as they look on paper. Dez was basically done by the time Dak's 2nd year rolled around, Williams was not very good, they started his 3rd year with Beasley as his number 1 guy. Now they did go big to get him Cooper and that definitely helped but I would say that was the first time he properly had top end wide receiver talent.

 

The biggest problem in Dallas in my honest opinion was on the sidelines and not on the field. That roster was stacked last year, and Dak played darn well. But the Head Coach hugely underachieved and was fired and the coordinators didn't impress me either (Kellen Moore has some promise but made some real rookie errors in 2019). As I have said before... I don't love Mike McCarthy and yet I expect him to be a considerable improvement. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by GunnerBill

[iinii]

On 4/4/2020 at 6:31 AM, Don Otreply said:

It’s some of the Jr GMs here, they like to pretend that their “football IQ” is something to behold, some of them are knowledgeable enough, but are so far down the road of fantasy/madden type crap that they no longer appear to enjoy/like real football, ya just gotta ignore them when they get on their soap box.
 

Go Bills!!!

It cuts both ways. 

[Nextmanup]

On 4/4/2020 at 7:02 AM, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I get it he’s not perfect, but neither was Kemp, or Ferguson or even Kelly for that matter. First it’s finally we have a franchise QB now all of a sudden it’s let’s go get Watson and let Allen go so we don’t have to pay him 30 million. Like some of you guys need to make up your minds. Either your with Allen or your not. Again while Bills mafia is the best fan base in the NFL, we are also the most spoiled. Appreciate what we have and root for the guy to succeed. Things could be worse, we could still have Tyrod( I can’t throw the football) Taylor or Nathan( I cant stop throwing to the other team) Peterman. Or how about EJ Manuel or Kyle Orton or even better Jeff Tuel or Thad Lewis. I can’t imagine if Kelly’s first year in Buffalo happened in today’s game, there would probably be a million threads about running him out of town and demanding that we draft someone else. I understand being critical and even being concerned, but some of you guys need to stop being negative and back off a bit and watch and see how it all unfolds. Be patient as the kids still young and is only going into his third year in the NFL. I don’t see Cleveland or New Jersey fans coming down on their QBS as much as I see here. And in my opinion Allen is way better than Darnold and Mayfield. 

Your thread title made me laugh.

What forum are you spending time at?  You think Josh Allen gets a lot of hate here?!

 

I would suggest he gets a lot of contrived, irrational, love and support and here.

 

 

[Bobby Hooks]

Does Allen get a lot of hate around here. Meh... guess I hadn’t noticed.

 

Peoples is peoples.  

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, iinii said:

It cuts both ways. 

Ah, the difference is that the majority here know we are not right all the time, so no, no it doesn’t. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I just think you have to be realistic about Allen.

 

The Dallas game this year was a high point of his career. The anticipation throw to Cole Beasley in the Red Zone, the pass he threaded out of his own end zone. Real growth, real playmaking throws. When he has time/protection to load up and fire the football straight down the football field, I saw a better QB.

 

But the goal isn’t improvement relative to a bottom of the league rookie self, he needs to be better than a good percentage of his peers. You’re in a conference with Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Lamar Jackson, Ben Roethlisberger and so on.
 

The Playoff game showed it’s still a struggle for Josh to orchestrate more than 19-20 ppg. After the hot start, the completion percentage dipped back into the 50’s and the fumbles picked up.

 

So going into Year 3, he’s not in the bottom tier of NFL passers, but he’s not better than half the league until he shows it. At the end of the day, our offense comes up short in big games (Patriots x2, Ravens, Texans). 

[Another Fan]

Hate?  If anything over the years it seems like his poop doesn’t smell if you read these boards.

 

He has the intangible stuff down very well: good teammate, hard worker, says all the right things, and seems to genuinely love Buffalo.

 

Theres still some things he does he can improve upon.   I don’t wanna say criticisms because I don’t he’s awful at anything.  The long passes come to mind and his body language at times.  There’s still times I think the moment looks too big for him now.   But all is correctable with time 

[Mr. K]

I wouldnt say its even hate. A s*** ton of fans want to see more. I dont think one of us would say he is a finished product. Yeah the hero ball and the accuracy need to be improved. We dont have a surgeon at QB but a playmaker. We all knew what prospect we were going to have throwing the ball and we should all know his baseline at this point. This is the make it or break it year for me personally.  Not hate but tempered expectations. Nobody wants another flop at that position.

[Hampton Josh fan]

On 4/4/2020 at 7:32 AM, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

Just because he wears the best uniforms in the league doesn't mean he IS good. He is like an untamable stallion. Making plays that are great and others that are stupid. So I'm a BIG "NOT". and I have been a fan since 1965 and want to see a Lombardi before I die. It will be tough with this guy.

A unequivocal talent evaluation at this point, 2 years in, starting right out of the  gate, making the playoffs,  makes you someone not to be taken seriously. Perhaps you expect the kid to be in the Super bowl by now. A fan since 65, after the mediocrity you've lived with, give me a break. 

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

1 hour ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

A unequivocal talent evaluation at this point, 2 years in, starting right out of the  gate, making the playoffs,  makes you someone not to be taken seriously. Perhaps you expect the kid to be in the Super bowl by now. A fan since 65, after the mediocrity you've lived with, give me a break. 

Don't hit me with your pom-poms

[DuckyBoys]

Comes down to unrealistic expectations.  He was a raw prospect who really should have sat all of 2018.  Also we have delusions of where a young qb should be due to Mahomes immediate success (and yes I know he sat year 1) Some of us are satisfied with where he is and some obviously are not.  My take is he improves again this coming season.  There are games he frustrates me but I really do think he is the franchise guy going forward.  Bills could have been delaying his development by hiding his weaknesses but they have not done that.  If anything their game plans / play calling often have put him in more unfavorable conditions.  Hopefully he becomes a more battle tested complete qb over the next two seasons while he's cheap against the cap .  I think he's worth the patience  How many qb's are the talent/ ceiling level equal or greater to his?  It's a short ist

[Hampton Josh fan]

58 minutes ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

Don't hit me with your pom-poms

You're looking for something that doesn't exist. A first round QB, runs 4+ years unless he sucks. Just jump on the JA train and try and go against your natural inclination to think everyone on your team will fail. The alternative is some journeyman you'll say stinks also.

[iinii]

On 4/7/2020 at 3:51 PM, Don Otreply said:

Ah, the difference is that the majority here know we are not right all the time, so no, no it doesn’t. 
 

Go Bills!!!

Don’t count on it. The majority? Knows when their wrong? What is in the Kool-aid exactly?

[Don Otreply]

7 hours ago, iinii said:

Don’t count on it. The majority? Knows when their wrong? What is in the Kool-aid exactly?

Clarity my friend, clarity...

 

Go Bills!!!

[FireChans]

19 hours ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

A unequivocal talent evaluation at this point, 2 years in, starting right out of the  gate, making the playoffs,  makes you someone not to be taken seriously. Perhaps you expect the kid to be in the Super bowl by now. A fan since 65, after the mediocrity you've lived with, give me a break. 

Patrick Mahomes won MVP his 2nd year and a Super Bowl in his 3rd. Tick tock.

[Hampton Josh fan]

46 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Patrick Mahomes won MVP his 2nd year and a Super Bowl in his 3rd. Tick tock.

That's sounds right, a delusional fan, who has lived in mediocrity his whole life expecting  a HOF QB to fall out of the sky. Here's the good news.We don't need JA17 to be Mahomes. This team just has to improve every year and JA will be good enough to take us to the promised land. Can he be ELI, or Foles or Flacco or Dilfer. In 58 years we've had 1 HOF QB. Zero rings.

[oldmanfan]

He improved from year one to year two.  There is no reason to expect that he won’t continue to improve in year three.  He has work to do of course as do most young QBs, still some negatives to work on.  But his future is bright.  The vast majority on this board understand this; that he has positives and negatives although some slant more either way.

 

Now I have been challenged on my statement that there are some who would like to see Allen not work out do they can say they were right about him (GreggTX, jrober, and check any game day chat room for others).  There is a rich history of QBs getting slammed, however.

 

I have watched Buffalo Bills football since 1960 when I was 5 years old.  And this stuff has gone on constantly.  Warren Rabb vs. Johnny Greene.  Kemp vs. Lamonica.  Shaw and Harris.  Ferguson and Marangi.  The cast of idiots in the early 80’s before Kelly.  Jelly was by far the best QB we ever had and by far the one everyone agreed in, but even then you had a few people saying Reich should have QBs a SB or two.  Then Johnson and Flutie.  .  Edwards and Losman and Holcomb.  Then time to blast EJ.  Then blast Orton.  Then Fitz.  And now folks (some, certainly not all) have it in their minds Allen doesn’t cut it.

 

The one great constant in Bills football, the Kelly years being the exception, is that fans are never satisfied with their QB, that it’s always the backup or the next guy that is the guy we need. Allen may be, maybe not.  But it’s clearly too soon to make any kind of definitive pronouncement.  I can only surmise those who seek to criticize every thing a second year QB has done, every single pass, every single decision do so as a kind of defense mechanism and/or to try and justify a prediction they made.  Hope I’m wrong.

 

For the record I think it’s 70/30 he’s our long term answer.

[SCBills]

I think the Playoff Game is the perfect synopsis of Allen right now.  
 

A lot of good.  Some bad.  Many outside Buffalo only focus on the bad.  
 

For most of the game, the announcers were lauding how composed and on-point Allen was.... and he was.  Then the culmination of his supporting cast letting him down forced him into one of his current Achilles heels.... “trying to do too much”. 
 

Duke dropped a TD.  Brown failed to execute a routine toe tap. The defense inexplicably fell apart. 
 

We got stuck in the mud and Allen, in his first playoff game, let it get to him.  
 

Even then, Allen executes a game winning drive if any of the 3 blockers in front of him tag that Texans Linebacker.  

[FireChans]

30 minutes ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

That's sounds right, a delusional fan, who has lived in mediocrity his whole life expecting  a HOF QB to fall out of the sky. Here's the good news.We don't need JA17 to be Mahomes. This team just has to improve every year and JA will be good enough to take us to the promised land. Can he be ELI, or Foles or Flacco or Dilfer. In 58 years we've had 1 HOF QB. Zero rings.

I don’t expect a HoF QB to fall out of the sky. I didn’t have to, one of them fell to pick #10 in the 2017 draft.

 

I hope Josh wins a Super Bowl. I also hope he’s a better QB than Dilfer.

[iinii]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Clarity my friend, clarity...

 

Go Bills!!!

Your answer just confirms my belief that the Kool-aid is loaded with righteous indignation. 

[Don Otreply]

37 minutes ago, iinii said:

Your answer just confirms my belief that the Kool-aid is loaded with righteous indignation. 

 Get off that horse... nuthin but luv, ?? righteous indignation is for those that are easily offended.... one day I’ll buy you a beer and we can try to convince each other that we are wrong. Oh and there will be penalty shots when stupid stuff is said, so we will both be drunk as hell in thirty minutes, ?

 

Go Bills!!!

[SoTier]

On 4/5/2020 at 11:52 AM, oldmanfan said:

Beane admitted they should have brought a vet like Anderson in earlier.  How long do you want to stomp on the corpse of this issue?

 

The Bills' FO and HC's actions in 2018 are hardly "ancient history" that have no bearing on their evaluations going forward, especially if Allen and/or the team don't take their next steps this season or next. .  Beane and McDermott have managed to make the playoffs twice in 3 seasons and they've actually won 10 games in a single season for the first time in this century, but they only have two poor losses in the wild card round to show for that.  When -- if -- the Bills become a perennial playoff team and bonafide SB contender under Beane and McDermott with Allen as their QB then their repeated errors in 2018 will cease to matter.

 

42 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Patrick Mahomes won MVP his 2nd year and a Super Bowl in his 3rd. Tick tock.

 

It's hardly "unrealistic expectations" for QBs who are something special to show that talent early.   The Allen cheerleaders on this thread like to pretend that great QBs putting in outstanding performances very early in their careers is a recent phenomenon, but it's not.  

• 1999 - Peyton Manning took the Colts to the AFCE division title as a sophomore.
• 2001 -Tom Brady took the Pats to a Lombardi in his first year as a starter. 
• 2005 - Ben Roethlisberger took the Steelers to a Super Bowl win in his second season.
• 2008 - Matt Ryan took the Falcons to the playoffs as a rookie.
• 2012 -Andrew Luck led the Colts to the playoffs as a rookie and just about every year that he was healthy afterward.
• 2013 - Russell Wilson led the Seahawks to a Super Bowl win as a sophomore after taking them to the NFC title game as a rookie. 
• 2017 - Carson Wentz was the leading candidate for MVP in his sophomore season before injury sidelined him. 
• 2018 - Mahomes was the league MVP in his first year as a starter and took the Chiefs to the AFC Championship and Deshaun Watson led the Texans to the playoffs as a sophomore after playing in only 7 games as rookie because of injury.
• 2019 - Lamar Jackson, from the same class as Allen and taken 22 spots later at the very end of the first round,  was an almost unanimous choice for MVP. 

 

Not all great/elite QBs find success in their first or second years in the league  -- Brees and Rodgers are two that come to mind immediately -- but by the time they've had two or three years as starters, if they aren't top NFL QBs, they aren't likely to become so.   Bortles, Winston, and Mariota are prime examples.   We're seeing more young QBs excellent (or fail) earlier now simply because teams are more willing to play their young QBs rather than have them sit behind a starter for a season or two.

 

[Da webster guy]

On 4/5/2020 at 10:23 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

Our schedule is a lot tougher. I honestly don't buy this "it is impossible to know" stuff. I have only once in 8 seasons on this forum been more than a game out on Buffalo's final record (2015 I had 10-6 but Rex scraped his way to 8-8). I called 12 of the 16 games right last year. I am not trying to suggest I am some sort of genius. I most definitely am not. It just isn't that hard if you are paying attention to the NFL as a whole and not just to the Bills. You will miss on one or two teams every year (I had San Fran as a .500 team in 2019) but if you are paying attention you won't miss on many.  

Thats an incredible run, considering it can be skewed by injuries, slumps, even week 17 meaningless games (who woulda thought Buffalo and Tenn would be sitting everyone in their final week?) Big Ben, Andrew Luck, Tannehill all did things impossible to predict.  Lamar Jackson becomes a better passer than Brady.  The list goes on. 

I saw a cool article on the 2019 NFL season that ESPN’s win-probability model gave a 60-40 (or narrower) split at any point with five or fewer minutes left in regulation.  63 of the NFL's 256 games fell within this threshold.

In these games, missed kicks, a single penalty or bounce of the ball can determine a W or L.  

If you're 7 for 8 seasons within a 1 game margin on the Bills, first I'd say congrats, then I'd say there's a significant element of luck in there. 

Funny the only NFL prop bet I took last year was the Niners under 8.5 wins, that was over by like week 10.

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

Kyler Murray the early popular 2020 MVP bet with Tom Brady and a surprise quarterback behind him

They may not have the best odds, but here is who bettors are high on to win the NFL MVP award in 2020

T2. Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills, 50/1 odds, (8 percent of tickets)

This has to be the most surprising name in the top three. Allen threw for 3,089 yards, 20 touchdowns, and nine interceptions as he led the Bills to a 10-6 record and their second playoff berth in the last three years. They did choke in the AFC wild-card game against the Texans, but that's not a fair representation of how Buffalo's season actually went. The Bills had the No. 3 defense in the league last year when it came to yards allowed per game, and they rode that unit all the way to the playoffs. Allen's nine rushing touchdowns didn't hurt Buffalo either. You can say he was more of a game manager in 2019, but with the cannon-like arm Allen has and the mobility he possesses, many figure he will take a big step forward in year three.

Another reason to be high on Allen is that he finally has a true No. 1 wideout for the first time in his career. The Bills made a big trade for former Minnesota Vikings star wideout Stefon Diggs, who has recorded two straight 1,000-yard receiving seasons. Don't sleep on the Bills in 2020. With Tom Brady now in the NFC South, they might be the favorites to win the division. 

Interestingly enough, Allen has also racked up the highest percent of dollars wagered in Vegas so far (22 percent), following by Dak Prescott (25/1 odds, 18 percent) and Murray (20/1 odds, 14 percent). 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyler-murray-the-early-popular-2020-mvp-bet-with-tom-brady-and-a-surprise-quarterback-behind-him/

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Kyler Murray the early popular 2020 MVP bet with Tom Brady and a surprise quarterback behind him

They may not have the best odds, but here is who bettors are high on to win the NFL MVP award in 2020

T2. Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills, 50/1 odds, (8 percent of tickets)

This has to be the most surprising name in the top three. Allen threw for 3,089 yards, 20 touchdowns, and nine interceptions as he led the Bills to a 10-6 record and their second playoff berth in the last three years. They did choke in the AFC wild-card game against the Texans, but that's not a fair representation of how Buffalo's season actually went. The Bills had the No. 3 defense in the league last year when it came to yards allowed per game, and they rode that unit all the way to the playoffs. Allen's nine rushing touchdowns didn't hurt Buffalo either. You can say he was more of a game manager in 2019, but with the cannon-like arm Allen has and the mobility he possesses, many figure he will take a big step forward in year three.

Another reason to be high on Allen is that he finally has a true No. 1 wideout for the first time in his career. The Bills made a big trade for former Minnesota Vikings star wideout Stefon Diggs, who has recorded two straight 1,000-yard receiving seasons. Don't sleep on the Bills in 2020. With Tom Brady now in the NFC South, they might be the favorites to win the division. 

Interestingly enough, Allen has also racked up the highest percent of dollars wagered in Vegas so far (22 percent), following by Dak Prescott (25/1 odds, 18 percent) and Murray (20/1 odds, 14 percent). 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyler-murray-the-early-popular-2020-mvp-bet-with-tom-brady-and-a-surprise-quarterback-behind-him/

 

I think we would all want Allen to win SBMVP rather than the league MVP, if we had a choice, of course.

 

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