Interview with Jordan Palmer on Allen offseason plans

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Vic Carucci interviews Jordan Palmer on Josh Allen and plans for the off season.  TBN, paywall - I think there's a free trial.  Very interesting article IMO.

 

Some key quotes:

I was like, 'I think this guy's going to be unbelievable, but I can't say how long it's going take, because it's not that he had a prolific college career,' " Palmer said. "So I think, for me, a part of it was waiting to see how long things were going to take. I've spent a lot of time with him and I'm even surprised at how quickly he's growing and how much better he's getting and how fast that's happening. He's seeing things really quickly, he's making quick decisions, he's moving past mistakes really quickly. And every time there's something he needs to work on, it gets better.( ....... ) based off what I've seen the last few years, I would just assume that he's going to come back and be one of the best deep ball throwers in the league next year because I see the way that he addresses issues and moves on."

 

Jordan talks about the way he works on deep throws with his clients.  He says part of it is mental, throwing to a spot rather than throwing to a guy.  He also talks about a technique he uses to teach the physical aspects, getting the ball up higher.

 

IMUO (in my uneducated opinion) part of Allen's problem is that his technique still breaks down under pressure, so I hope that's something they'll work on.

 

The most interesting part of the article to me was talking about the "trying to do too much" aspect.  Palmer makes an interesting point:

" One of the things that I've noticed in working with young players is, a lot of times they can have success if they just want it more, right? Because when you put a bunch of little kids on the field that are 10 years old, honestly, things like talent, athleticism aren't registering yet. So it's really just who wants it the most. And so at some point, you grow out of that and it becomes speed and technique and talent, whatever the sport is.

(.....) I think one of the things with young NFL players is they still have that drive and that want-to and as they transition into older veterans, it gets channeled differently. "

 

I would say Josh definitely has aspects where he has succeeded at times in games because, as he says himself of the 4th down conversion vs the Cowboys, "I really wanted it".  So it's going to be a challenge to channel that "I want it more" that helps him win some plays, and use it more selectively. 

 

Palmer says he has his clients pre-draft work with a "mental conditioning coach" Trevor Moawad on "neutral thinking": " Neutral thinking is detaching from everything except for facts of what's happening. "OK, we're down 10. Here's what we need to do." Or, "It's raining. Here's what I need to do. Too many people get into negative thinking. "Oh, man, we're down 10 again." Or people get down 10 and they go, "We've got them right where we want them. No, we're all good. It'll be it'll be fine. What needs to happen? We're down 10, we need to get a stop on defense, we need to drive down the field, everyone needs to execute and go."

 

This interests me because it seems very tied in with some of the training I've had, as an emergency responder and as pilot.  It's not couched in the same language, but essentially it's very much about being focused in the present moment - you can't waste time second guessing or kicking yourself about how you got there, you can't be in denial about the situation you're really in, you can't waste time thinking too broadly about the situation.  It's all define the problem, work the problem, prioritize, most important aspect is the Next Two Things.

Anyway I think this is the guy:

https://moawadconsultinggroup.com/

Edit: apparently this guy is Russ Wilson's "mental conditioning coach"

 

Should be interesting to see what happens.

 

 

 

 

[Warcodered]

Hope he's right next season could be a lot of fun.

[MJS]

I think that's what I've been most impressed with Josh about. He's pretty humble and coachable and clearly wants to get better. He works on things and you see results. If he keeps that up he'll get to where he wants to be. The nice thing is we can still be winning games as he is developing.

[ColoradoBills]

31 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Some key quotes:

I was like, 'I think this guy's going to be unbelievable, but I can't say how long it's going take, because it's not that he had a prolific college career,' " Palmer said. "So I think, for me, a part of it was waiting to see how long things were going to take. I've spent a lot of time with him and I'm even surprised at how quickly he's growing and how much better he's getting and how fast that's happening. He's seeing things really quickly, he's making quick decisions, he's moving past mistakes really quickly. And every time there's something he needs to work on, it gets better.( ....... ) based off what I've seen the last few years, I would just assume that he's going to come back and be one of the best deep ball throwers in the league next year because I see the way that he addresses issues and moves on."

 

 

My god I hope that happens.  It would change everything on how opposing D's would have to handle the Bills offense.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

32 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Vic Carucci interviews Jordan Palmer on Josh Allen and plans for the off season.  TBN, paywall - I think there's a free trial.  Very interesting article IMO.

 

Some key quotes:

I was like, 'I think this guy's going to be unbelievable, but I can't say how long it's going take, because it's not that he had a prolific college career,' " Palmer said. "So I think, for me, a part of it was waiting to see how long things were going to take. I've spent a lot of time with him and I'm even surprised at how quickly he's growing and how much better he's getting and how fast that's happening. He's seeing things really quickly, he's making quick decisions, he's moving past mistakes really quickly. And every time there's something he needs to work on, it gets better.( ....... ) based off what I've seen the last few years, I would just assume that he's going to come back and be one of the best deep ball throwers in the league next year because I see the way that he addresses issues and moves on."

 

Jordan talks about the way he works on deep throws with his clients.  He says part of it is mental, throwing to a spot rather than throwing to a guy.  He also talks about a technique he uses to teach the physical aspects, getting the ball up higher.

 

IMUO (in my uneducated opinion) part of Allen's problem is that his technique still breaks down under pressure, so I hope that's something they'll work on.

 

The most interesting part of the article to me was talking about the "trying to do too much" aspect.  Palmer makes an interesting point:

" One of the things that I've noticed in working with young players is, a lot of times they can have success if they just want it more, right? Because when you put a bunch of little kids on the field that are 10 years old, honestly, things like talent, athleticism aren't registering yet. So it's really just who wants it the most. And so at some point, you grow out of that and it becomes speed and technique and talent, whatever the sport is.

(.....) I think one of the things with young NFL players is they still have that drive and that want-to and as they transition into older veterans, it gets channeled differently. "

 

I would say Josh definitely has aspects where he has succeeded at times in games because, as he says himself of the 4th down conversion vs the Cowboys, "I really wanted it".  So it's going to be a challenge to channel that "I want it more" that helps him win some plays, and use it more selectively. 

 

Palmer says he has his clients pre-draft work with a "mental conditioning coach" Trevor Moawad on "neutral thinking": " Neutral thinking is detaching from everything except for facts of what's happening. "OK, we're down 10. Here's what we need to do." Or, "It's raining. Here's what I need to do. Too many people get into negative thinking. "Oh, man, we're down 10 again." Or people get down 10 and they go, "We've got them right where we want them. No, we're all good. It'll be it'll be fine. What needs to happen? We're down 10, we need to get a stop on defense, we need to drive down the field, everyone needs to execute and go."

 

This interests me because it seems very tied in with some of the training I've had, as an emergency responder and as pilot.  It's not couched in the same language, but essentially it's very much about being focused in the present moment - you can't waste time second guessing or kicking yourself about how you got there, you can't be in denial about the situation you're really in, you can't waste time thinking too broadly about the situation.  It's all define the problem, work the problem, prioritize, most important aspect is the Next Two Things.

Anyway I think this is the guy:

https://moawadconsultinggroup.com/

 

Should be interesting to see what happens.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the link Hapless, that looks awesome, looking forward to reading more!

 

[Warcodered]

From last season one of his biggest weaknesses was his short to mid game and seeing how much he improved on that this year I definitely think his deep ball will improve next year.

[uticaclub]

Josh Allen pays Jordan Palmer 1000s of dollars to be his trainer, he's not going to give a full analysis. 

[MJS]

4 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

From last season one of his biggest weaknesses was his short to mid game and seeing how much he improved on that this year I definitely think his deep ball will improve next year.

He had the deep ball his rookie year. Let's hope he can put both together in his 3rd year. If he does, everything changes.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Josh Allen pays Jordan Palmer 1000s of dollars to be his trainer, he's not going to give a full analysis. 

 

He's also a business man.  His analysis and how well he does doing that along with his results is his job.

If he didn't do that he would not have any "customers" in the future.

[eball]

Where's the emoji of me running through a brick wall because I'm so freaking excited for next season already!!!!

[whatdrought]

Based on how much Allen improved this year, from reading defenses, to accuracy, to feel for the game, to decision making... if he takes a similar jump he’ll be an MVP candidate no doubt. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Josh Allen pays Jordan Palmer 1000s of dollars to be his trainer, he's not going to give a full analysis. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean here...

 

Do you mean he's not going to give TBN a full analysis?  Did someone say he would?  I mean, that's way beyond the scope of a media interview anyway.

 

Or do you mean he's not going to give Josh Allen a full analysis?

[Magox]

I've said it all along since the day the Bills drafted him that the sky is the limit with Josh Allen.  He has the intelligence, heart, passion, work ethic, athleticism and physical throwing tools to be one of the best.  He was a raw prospect coming in and he wasn't as polished as most of the high pedigree NFL QB's when they came into the league.  I have very little doubt, barring injury that he will come back a better version of himself this next year.  I also agree with Jordan Palmer in that Josh Allen will be much improved with his deep ball.

 

Josh Allen will be a borderline pro bowl QB next year and lead to the team to the playoffs with at least one playoff win.

[dave mcbride]

Awesome stuff. I love the point about getting more height on the deep balls. It'll give the receivers more of a chance.

52 minutes ago, eball said:

Where's the emoji of me running through a brick wall because I'm so freaking excited for next season already!!!!

not an emoji, but good enough: https://giphy.com/gifs/yeaaaaaaa-pkY4ra5dhljDW

[Hapless Bills Fan]

29 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Awesome stuff. I love the point about getting more height on the deep balls. It'll give the receivers more of a chance.

not an emoji, but good enough: https://giphy.com/gifs/yeaaaaaaa-pkY4ra5dhljDW

 

That's.  Awesome.  ?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

He's also a business man.  His analysis and how well he does doing that along with his results is his job.

If he didn't do that he would not have any "customers" in the future.

 

...yes but despite all of the Josh negatives out there albeit press or posters, the interesting fact remains that ex-NFL QB's like Palmer, Sims, Dilfer, etc remain very high on the kid.....they lay out the pluses and are critical in the minuses, but the net is positive......Dorsey seems to be on board......and don't even waste time bringing up their collective NFL careers as a rebuttal.....I'd trust them WAY before some "journalist (COUGH)".......

Edited January 24, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[BBills88]

I'm excited to see Josh take the next steps this up coming season. 

 

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Vic Carucci interviews Jordan Palmer on Josh Allen and plans for the off season.  TBN, paywall - I think there's a free trial.  Very interesting article IMO.

 

Some key quotes:

I was like, 'I think this guy's going to be unbelievable, but I can't say how long it's going take, because it's not that he had a prolific college career,' " Palmer said. "So I think, for me, a part of it was waiting to see how long things were going to take. I've spent a lot of time with him and I'm even surprised at how quickly he's growing and how much better he's getting and how fast that's happening. He's seeing things really quickly, he's making quick decisions, he's moving past mistakes really quickly. And every time there's something he needs to work on, it gets better.( ....... ) based off what I've seen the last few years, I would just assume that he's going to come back and be one of the best deep ball throwers in the league next year because I see the way that he addresses issues and moves on."

 

Jordan talks about the way he works on deep throws with his clients.  He says part of it is mental, throwing to a spot rather than throwing to a guy.  He also talks about a technique he uses to teach the physical aspects, getting the ball up higher.

 

IMUO (in my uneducated opinion) part of Allen's problem is that his technique still breaks down under pressure, so I hope that's something they'll work on.

 

The most interesting part of the article to me was talking about the "trying to do too much" aspect.  Palmer makes an interesting point:

" One of the things that I've noticed in working with young players is, a lot of times they can have success if they just want it more, right? Because when you put a bunch of little kids on the field that are 10 years old, honestly, things like talent, athleticism aren't registering yet. So it's really just who wants it the most. And so at some point, you grow out of that and it becomes speed and technique and talent, whatever the sport is.

(.....) I think one of the things with young NFL players is they still have that drive and that want-to and as they transition into older veterans, it gets channeled differently. "

 

I would say Josh definitely has aspects where he has succeeded at times in games because, as he says himself of the 4th down conversion vs the Cowboys, "I really wanted it".  So it's going to be a challenge to channel that "I want it more" that helps him win some plays, and use it more selectively. 

 

Palmer says he has his clients pre-draft work with a "mental conditioning coach" Trevor Moawad on "neutral thinking": " Neutral thinking is detaching from everything except for facts of what's happening. "OK, we're down 10. Here's what we need to do." Or, "It's raining. Here's what I need to do. Too many people get into negative thinking. "Oh, man, we're down 10 again." Or people get down 10 and they go, "We've got them right where we want them. No, we're all good. It'll be it'll be fine. What needs to happen? We're down 10, we need to get a stop on defense, we need to drive down the field, everyone needs to execute and go."

 

This interests me because it seems very tied in with some of the training I've had, as an emergency responder and as pilot.  It's not couched in the same language, but essentially it's very much about being focused in the present moment - you can't waste time second guessing or kicking yourself about how you got there, you can't be in denial about the situation you're really in, you can't waste time thinking too broadly about the situation.  It's all define the problem, work the problem, prioritize, most important aspect is the Next Two Things.

Anyway I think this is the guy:

https://moawadconsultinggroup.com/

Edit: apparently this guy is Russ Wilson's "mental conditioning coach"

 

Should be interesting to see what happens.

 

 

 

 

I was saying this all season and a bunch a people said I was completely off base

 

But what do I know

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I was saying this all season and a bunch a people said I was completely off base

But what do I know

 

More about football than the people who said you were off base? 

 

Was this a trick question? ?

[snafu]

1 hour ago, eball said:

Where's the emoji of me running through a brick wall because I'm so freaking excited for next season already!!!!

 

 

I hope a youtube clip will be okay.

 

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

Josh's deep throws are easily fixable. It's called throw the damn ball HIGHER dude. Not rocket science. 

[John from Riverside]

Take a look at Josh Allen's hight and his passing technique and how he is throwing to smaller guys

 

Get him some size that can actually separate and high point and catch a friggen ball.....

 

Smoke is great in his role.....he is def our 2.....Bease is a solid slot corner........we need a LEGIT ONE....and we need to take a couple of swings at bat to make sure we get it

[Shaw66]

39 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Take a look at Josh Allen's hight and his passing technique and how he is throwing to smaller guys

 

Get him some size that can actually separate and high point and catch a friggen ball.....

 

Smoke is great in his role.....he is def our 2.....Bease is a solid slot corner........we need a LEGIT ONE....and we need to take a couple of swings at bat to make sure we get it

Well, that's not the approach the McBeane take, I don't think, but I agree with your vision.   I mean, if his head is screwed on straight, I'd write a great big check to Amari Cooper.  Plug him in with the two the Bills have - by doing that you're #1 becomes a #2 and your #2 becomes a #3, and watch Josh go to town.  I mean, there will be an open receiver on every play.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, that's not the approach the McBeane take, I don't think, but I agree with your vision.   I mean, if his head is screwed on straight, I'd write a great big check to Amari Cooper.  Plug him in with the two the Bills have - by doing that you're #1 becomes a #2 and your #2 becomes a #3, and watch Josh go to town.  I mean, there will be an open receiver on every play.   

 

I'm pretty sure that Beane does not do this.

[Shaw66]

It's really nice to hear this stuff about Allen.  Whether it turns out to be accurate is an open question.   I was a bigger believer in Allen a year ago than I am now.  He struggled more in 2019 than I thought he would.   

 

We'll see what 2020 brings.

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm pretty sure that Beane does not do this.

Yeah, that's what I said.  They will stick to their discipline.   Their plan is to draft stars, not sign them as free agents.   

 

If Beane writes a big check, it's going to be for someone on the oline or the defensive front seven.  

[fansince88]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It's really nice to hear this stuff about Allen.  Whether it turns out to be accurate is an open question.   I was a bigger believer in Allen a year ago than I am now.  He struggled more in 2019 than I thought he would.   

 

We'll see what 2020 brings.

Yeah, that's what I said.  They will stick to their discipline.   Their plan is to draft stars, not sign them as free agents.   

 

If Beane writes a big check, it's going to be for someone on the oline or the defensive front seven.  

Absolutely. They are building this team so that eventually the top falls out and they reload at the bottom through draft. Cream will rise to the top.  I understand what you are saying about being a bigger believer last year. My question is this. Was 2019 the " second year slump" we often hear about? I agree with this. We will not see big money on a target for Josh. Better chance the lines get another tweak. 

[CommonCents]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm pretty sure that Beane does not do this.

Did you hear Amari’s Pro Bowl interview? He said he’d take millions less to not have to play in a snowy climate. 

 

Cooper is soft. Always has been.

[BeastMaster]

23 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, that's not the approach the McBeane take, I don't think, but I agree with your vision.   I mean, if his head is screwed on straight, I'd write a great big check to Amari Cooper.  Plug him in with the two the Bills have - by doing that you're #1 becomes a #2 and your #2 becomes a #3, and watch Josh go to town.  I mean, there will be an open receiver on every play.   

Amari Cooper is soft and his numbers on the road are night and day.

 

He's not worth what he's gonna be getting paid.

 

Hard pass on that guy

[John from Riverside]

29 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, that's not the approach the McBeane take, I don't think, but I agree with your vision.   I mean, if his head is screwed on straight, I'd write a great big check to Amari Cooper.  Plug him in with the two the Bills have - by doing that you're #1 becomes a #2 and your #2 becomes a #3, and watch Josh go to town.  I mean, there will be an open receiver on every play.   

If we were willing to inquiry about whats his face from the Steelers.....then I bet they would be willing to look at Cooper.

 

Even if we got Cooper...I would STILL take Schnault or Higgins

[Laughing Coffin]

Even if Allen improves to being even an average deep ball thrower, he would have been in the MVP consideration this year.  Lots of points left on the field due to Allen's inconsistent (or maybe just consistently overshot) deep balls.  I'm looking forward to him taking another leap forward

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

It's really nice to hear this stuff about Allen.  Whether it turns out to be accurate is an open question.   I was a bigger believer in Allen a year ago than I am now.  He struggled more in 2019 than I thought he would.   

 

Wow.  I am complete 180 degrees from you.  I was completely skeptical after his rookie season, even though I could tell he didn't have enough OL or pieces around him.

 

I was seriously impressed with Allen's progress this year.  He took serious strides in aspects of his game where I doubted he could. 

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

Absolutely love Josh and think he is going to win playoff games in the future.  As fans we really need to get out of the "if you're not a top 5 quarterback you suck" way of thinking.  

[BringBackFlutie]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

I think that's what I've been most impressed with Josh about. He's pretty humble and coachable and clearly wants to get better. He works on things and you see results. If he keeps that up he'll get to where he wants to be. The nice thing is we can still be winning games as he is developing.

This is why I'm so confident moving forward.  We seem to have a pretty solid team, and even if josh doesnt work out, it looks like we know how to at least build a defense and play sound football.

[WizdomCalling]

If they aren't working on his grip strength and fumbling, get a new off season training program

[Shaw66]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wow.  I am complete 180 degrees from you.  I was completely skeptical after his rookie season, even though I could tell he didn't have enough OL or pieces around him.

 

I was seriously impressed with Allen's progress this year.  He took serious strides in aspects of his game where I doubted he could. 

 

 

Yes, he took serious strides.  I'm not disappointed, but I expected more.  I expected he would be a top-20 passer.  

Edited January 25, 2020 by Shaw66

[MJS]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wow.  I am complete 180 degrees from you.  I was completely skeptical after his rookie season, even though I could tell he didn't have enough OL or pieces around him.

 

I was seriously impressed with Allen's progress this year.  He took serious strides in aspects of his game where I doubted he could. 

I pretty much feel the same about him. I saw everything I needed to see his rookie year and was pretty confident he would improve. He did that. I'm not sure if he'll ever be elite, but wouldn't be surprised if he makes those strides.

 

He was just so different from the crap we've put out at QB the past 20ish years. It was evident for me after just a few games that he could play in this league and win a lot of games. But time will tell how high he can climb.

[Reed83HOF]

8 hours ago, eball said:

Where's the emoji of me running through a brick wall because I'm so freaking excited for next season already!!!!

https://giphy.com/gifs/yeaaaaaaa-pkY4ra5fhkfQFGS

 

 

Edit: Crud for some reason the GIF won't embed automatically - guess it has to be clicked on? WTF  oh well

Edited January 25, 2020 by Reed83HOF

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

https://giphy.com/gifs/yeaaaaaaa-pkY4ra5fhkfQFGS

 

 

Edit: Crud for some reason the GIF won't embed automatically - guess it has to be clicked on? WTF  oh well

 

Maybe if you take off the aviator shades you can see a little better and this gets easier??? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, he took serious strides.  I'm not disappointed, but I expected more.  U expected he would be s top-20 passer.  

 

I'm confused "U expected" did you miss the "I" key?  It's not my ("you" when you're talking to me) expectation.

 

[Buffalo Junction]

9 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

He's also a business man.  His analysis and how well he does doing that along with his results is his job.

If he didn't do that he would not have any "customers" in the future.

Yup. Josh Allen is by far Palmers biggest commercial. If Allen turns into an All Pro then Palmers business is secured until retirement.