Interview with Jordan Palmer on Allen offseason plans

[JetsFan20]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Yup. Josh Allen is by far Palmers biggest commercial. If Allen turns into an All Pro then Palmers business is secured until retirement. 

He’s also literally being paid by Josh Allen. Of course he’s going to be overwhelmingly positive with his comments. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by JetsFan20

[loyal2dagame]

21 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

He’s also literally being paid by Josh Allen. Of course he’s going to be overwhelmingly positive with his comments. 

It's a two way street in that aspect. But,  Palmer wouldn't be beating a drum for Allen if he thought Allen would fail to succeed.  It would make Palmer look like a fool and his training program look like trash.  

[TroutDog]

14 hours ago, MJS said:

He had the deep ball his rookie year. Let's hope he can put both together in his 3rd year. If he does, everything changes.

Josh had five passs of 40+ in his first year and this past year he had seven so I’m not sure where this narrative comes from. 

[Shaw66]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm confused "U expected" did you miss the "I" key?  It's not my ("you" when you're talking to me) expectation.

 

Sorry - typing on my phone together with no proofreading.  I expected he'd be a top 20 passer and he wasn't.  

15 hours ago, fansince88 said:

 My question is this. Was 2019 the " second year slump" we often hear about? I agree with this. We will not see big money on a target for Josh. Better chance the lines get another tweak. 

I think the sophomore slump is a myth.   It may have been real 50 years ago, but I don't think you see guys regress from their first season very often.   

 

In any event, Josh didn't have a slump.   He was clearly better in his second season than his first.   He improved, for sure, just not as much as I had hoped.  

[GreggTX]

Josh needs to stop overthrowing receivers by several yards on the deep routes. He left a lot of points out there. It's not that I want him to throw more deep balls because that will never be his strength, but with a better pass rush, CB's and more emphasis on running the ball, 1 or 2 deep completions per game could make a big difference. If Josh could just become an average starting QB, say 3,500 yd with 20 TD and 10 int's with a 65% completion rate, we could win 12 games. This assumes we address WR, OT, G and backup RB adequately. 

[Penfield45]

if he can bump his completion % up (by working on the 20+ yard throws) and get rid of the wild fumbles we have a shot. 

 

Allen just needs more weapons on offense. get him a damn WR that can jump high and make contested catches. Duke Williams vs the texans made some of the best catches of the seaon and they were routine for NFL WR's, shows you how bare the talent is on this offense 

[JetsFan20]

7 hours ago, loyal2dagame said:

It's a two way street in that aspect. But,  Palmer wouldn't be beating a drum for Allen if he thought Allen would fail to succeed.  It would make Palmer look like a fool and his training program look like trash.  

 

I remember reading an article that NFL agency firms were hiring fringe guys like Jordan Palmer and Ryan Lindley who were out of the league to assist QB prospects with their pre-draft/combine stuff. 

 

If Palmer was truly this “QB Guru” he’d like find himself highly compensated on an NFL coaching staff. I think his value more centered towards getting young QBs ready for their pro/days, combine workout, and team interviews (drawing up plays on the chalk board). 

 

Obviously Darnold and Allen like the guy and feel hes a good resource, but I wouldn’t read too much into it. 

 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

 

I remember reading an article that NFL agency firms were hiring fringe guys like Jordan Palmer and Ryan Lindley who were out of the league to assist QB prospects with their pre-draft/combine stuff. 

 

If Palmer was truly this “QB Guru” he’d like find himself highly compensated on an NFL coaching staff. I think his value more centered towards getting young QBs ready for their pro/days, combine workout, and team interviews (drawing up plays on the chalk board). 

 

Obviously Darnold and Allen like the guy and feel hes a good resource, but I wouldn’t read too much into it. 

 

 

 

 

He makes more money doing what he’s doing vs. being on a staff.

[JetsFan20]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

He makes more money doing what he’s doing vs. being on a staff.

What he does is incredibly valuable so it’s not surprising if true. 

 

As we all know the difference between and day 1 pick and day 2 pick is millions of dollars (same with top 10 vs top 20).

 

I still don’t think getting a guy prepared for his pro day or team interviews translates to actual on field success. 

 

 

[fansince88]

41 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

  

I think the sophomore slump is a myth.   It may have been real 50 years ago, but I don't think you see guys regress from their first season very often.   

 

In any event, Josh didn't have a slump.   He was clearly better in his second season than his first.   He improved, for sure, just not as much as I had hoped.  

I respect this! 

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

What he does is incredibly valuable so it’s not surprising if true. 

 

As we all know the difference between and day 1 pick and day 2 pick is millions of dollars (same with top 10 vs top 20).

 

I still don’t think getting a guy prepared for his pro day or team interviews translates to actual on field success. 

 

 

We’ll see

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, TroutDog said:

Josh had five passs of 40+ in his first year and this past year he had seven so I’m not sure where this narrative comes from. 

 

I think the narrative comes from a couple games where hitting the deep shot to back the defense off was a critical part of Daboll's  plan and Allen couldn't get 'er done.  I would have liked to see Daboll have an effective "Plan B" but the fact remains, an NFL QB needs to hit those shots at least 1 out of 3 times.  The Pats and the Ravens tried to Blitz0 Tanny if I recall correctly.  He smiled and nailed that deep throw, even if he hardly hit anything else - half of Tannehill's 88 passing yds against the Ravens came on one damn 45 yd TD throw!

 

I don't think Allen was throwing great deep balls last year.  He basically threw it deep and Foster managed to run into it 7 times.  Foster took teams by surprise at the end of the season and could really motor.  This season, teams had the memo "don't let that skinny guy get by you, PI if you must"; they pressed him hard on the line and were physical which slowed him, and it's possible Foster was hampered a bit by injury and not as fast.  Allen didn't dare to throw a ball Foster could adjust on, because he can't and it would have been picked, but Allen's deep ball is also legit hard to adjust on right now because it's shallow.

 

I think Allen prioritized (correctly) getting better at other aspects of his game such as throwing with anticipation and hitting the short/middle stuff - and he did get better at those things, but reverted somewhat under pressure.  By the end of the season, good coaches with strong Ds had figured out where the gap in Allen's game was and were able to scheme to take away enough of the stuff he improved.  So now Allen needs to shore up that gap as the next move in the Football Chess Game, and we need another legit deep threat besides Brown who can actually adjust on a back shoulder throw and defend it if he needs to.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

42 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

I remember reading an article that NFL agency firms were hiring fringe guys like Jordan Palmer and Ryan Lindley who were out of the league to assist QB prospects with their pre-draft/combine stuff. 

 

If Palmer was truly this “QB Guru” he’d like find himself highly compensated on an NFL coaching staff.

 

Not necessarily true.  Palmer leads a pretty sweet life right now.   He can live where he wants and bring guys in to him.  He can pick and choose who he works with.  He can pick and choose when and where he travels.  He doesn't have to negotiate treacherous office or locker room politics; he's not locked in to working with whichever QB the team contracts.  He isn't subject to being thrown out on his ear whenever ownership or the FO makes a coaching change.

 

He does have performance pressure in the sense that if players and their agents (and later teams) don't feel he adds value his market will dry up, but he has a lot more control over that then he would as an assistant coach on an NFL team.

 

 

[MJS]

5 hours ago, TroutDog said:

Josh had five passs of 40+ in his first year and this past year he had seven so I’m not sure where this narrative comes from. 

He played fewer games.

[Mango]

10 minutes ago, MJS said:

He played fewer games.

 

5/11=7/16

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

Josh needs to stop overthrowing receivers by several yards on the deep routes. He left a lot of points out there. It's not that I want him to throw more deep balls because that will never be his strength, but with a better pass rush, CB's and more emphasis on running the ball, 1 or 2 deep completions per game could make a big difference. If Josh could just become an average starting QB, say 3,500 yd with 20 TD and 10 int's with a 65% completion rate, we could win 12 games. This assumes we address WR, OT, G and backup RB adequately. 

The thing that is so encouraging about the Bills is they could have 12 games in 2019.  They tanked the Pats and Jets games to end the season, with plain vanilla game plans and, against the Jets, most of the skill position starters on the sidelines.   They could have beaten the Pats the first time, and they could have beaten the Ravens.  The Bills actually aren't very far from being a really successful team.

 

What's interesting about the Bills, and something that some of us may always find disappointing, is the Bills are becoming one of the least-flashy good teams in the league.   They play aggressive defense, but it's fundamentally bend-don't-break.   They want a balanced attack, and they'll win running the ball if they can.   I've always said they want to be built like the Patriots are built, but they want to look like the 49ers.   We can talk about Josh bombing away and 300-yard passing games and all of that, but that isn't what McD are building.   If they stumble on a Tyreek Hill or a Julio Jones, they're going to hurt people with the guy, but they are not going to build the offense around him.   Other than quarterback and maybe middle linebacker, they don't need a superstar.   They want 22 guys doing their jobs, all of them making plays, and a few of them (and it really doesn't make much difference which position) being real studs.   They want a few Bosas and Joneses, but they don't really care which positions they play.   And they won't pay really big dollars for very many of those guys.  

[TroutDog]

37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think the narrative comes from a couple games where hitting the deep shot to back the defense off was a critical part of Daboll's  plan and Allen couldn't get 'er done.  I would have liked to see Daboll have an effective "Plan B" but the fact remains, an NFL QB needs to hit those shots at least 1 out of 3 times.  The Pats and the Ravens tried to Blitz0 Tanny if I recall correctly.  He smiled and nailed that deep throw, even if he hardly hit anything else - half of Tannehill's 88 passing yds against the Ravens came on one damn 45 yd TD throw!

 

I don't think Allen was throwing great deep balls last year.  He basically threw it deep and Foster managed to run into it 7 times.  Foster took teams by surprise at the end of the season and could really motor.  This season, teams had the memo "don't let that skinny guy get by you, PI if you must"; they pressed him hard on the line and were physical which slowed him, and it's possible Foster was hampered a bit by injury and not as fast.  Allen didn't dare to throw a ball Foster could adjust on, because he can't and it would have been picked, but Allen's deep ball is also legit hard to adjust on right now because it's shallow.

 

I think Allen prioritized (correctly) getting better at other aspects of his game such as throwing with anticipation and hitting the short/middle stuff - and he did get better at those things, but reverted somewhat under pressure.  By the end of the season, good coaches with strong Ds had figured out where the gap in Allen's game was and were able to scheme to take away enough of the stuff he improved.  So now Allen needs to shore up that gap as the next move in the Football Chess Game, and we need another legit deep threat besides Brown who can actually adjust on a back shoulder throw and defend it if he needs to.

I agree and further believe the issue this year was him overthrowing to avoid turnovers. The whole ‘protect the ball’ idea precluded him from truly attempting to put it where he actually wanted it. 
 

Also, his mechanics have been getting better bit by bit and as they improve, so will his long ball accuracy. The kid has the arm and, finally, the coaching to make the necessary strides. 
 

My initial point was most folks seem to believe he was hitting all of the long balls last year and he actually didn’t do it very well or often. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

I agree and further believe the issue this year was him overthrowing to avoid turnovers. The whole ‘protect the ball’ idea precluded him from truly attempting to put it where he actually wanted it. 

 

Probably more than one thing at play.  I'm not sure Allen always had confidence he could reliably put the ball where he actually wanted it; except for Brown, I think Allen understandably lacked confidence that his receivers could adjust on a properly thrown deep ball or defend it at need.

 

26 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

My initial point was most folks seem to believe he was hitting all of the long balls last year and he actually didn’t do it very well or often. 

 

We agree there

[TroutDog]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Probably more than one thing at play.  I'm not sure Allen always had confidence he could reliably put the ball where he actually wanted it; except for Brown, I think Allen understandably lacked confidence that his receivers could adjust on a properly thrown deep ball or defend it at need.

I wouldn’t argue this at all. He does appear to be confident but not all things are as they appear. Factor in who he played against previously and it would certainly make sense that he’d question himself now being at the highest level. 

[Punching Bag]

17 hours ago, CommonCents said:

Did you hear Amari’s Pro Bowl interview? He said he’d take millions less to not have to play in a snowy climate. 

 

Cooper is soft. Always has been.

 

So he wants to play like in baseball with a dedicated player to take his place when it snows?